Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Slash27 on September 04, 2004, 04:03:51 PM
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FINN/RUSS?
Due to lack of maps (2) England and France are subbing for Finnland and Russia. As of right now the plane set is a basic VVS vs LW. Ill get it adjusted to represent one of our past Finn/Russ sets ASAP. Its was suggested to me that this would be a nice departure from ETO,PTO,ETO,PTO, rut that starting to form. The plane set so far is an ealy '44 set. The 190D9 has benn added for the time being. Ive got some conflicting dates on it actually being in service in early '44. STorch got me some dates (thanks) but they have been disputed. Any input is welcome.
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Time frame or not, the D9 is a good plane to keep the LaLa and Yakasorus from fleeing like little girls with there arms flailing in the air when the going gets tough. :D
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was on this afternoon..D9 is a little uber..but leave it in....was fun
chasing them to 30k LOL:D :rofl :aok
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J00 R0XX0R SLASH!
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The first unit to enter service with the Fw190D-9 was III/JG54 (which was serving in the west) in mid October 1944. The next Gruppe to get it was II/JG26 (also in the west) and they didn't go operational until mid December with the Dora.
If you check this site: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/LW_OBs.html (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/LW_OBs.html)
It has some great luftwaffe orders of battle. You can see in there (looking at the overall OOB for Jan 44 and Dec 44) that in January of '44 there were no 190D-9s in service, and by December only a few units in the West had them. You'll also notice that in January, none of the front line JG's are still using the Bf109F-4.
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Thank you Sable.
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J00 R0XX0R SLASH!
I take it thats a good thing?:D
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Kanttori's excellent FinRus map is not available in AH2 but Baltic map is. Why is that not used ?
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Originally posted by TimRas
Kanttori's excellent FinRus map is not available in AH2 but Baltic map is. Why is that not used ?
russian's wouldn't be on the map.
3 fleets.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
russian's wouldn't be on the map.
3 fleets.
1. Finland is in the map
2. Russians captured baltic states (south of Finnish Gulf) in late summer 1944.
3. This map was used in VVS-LW scenarios in AH1 before Kanttori made his maps.
4. Fleets cannot be disabled/removed?
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1. it might be but there is no front with the russians.
2.no many bases in those States
3. CT politcs have changes since then.
4. no your stuck with 3 cv's that will cause havoc by means of ack.
also the decide factor imo has to deal with #3
the map doesn't have enough bases it is just as simple as that.
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You mean that the Baltic map has enough bases for MA use but not enough for CT ?:rolleyes:
And what is exactly "CT politics" now and what has changed ?
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I dont want to use a MA map for the CT. Its not that big of a deal that the map is not 100% accurate.
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The map is good enough Slash leave it the way it is. The Doras not necessarily the D-9 started seeing service in Dec 1943. Allied fighter pilots reported seeing "long nosed 190s" in January 1944 according to Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War II. These aircraft were fitted with the Diamler Benz DB603 engine The D-9 was the first operational variant to see widespread (as it were) service. This was outfitted with the Junkers Jumo 213 A-1 engine. The DB603 variant was being used selectively by various squadrons in Mar 1944. Now for the real issue. Allow me to ask why you guys always have to have the best turners and the fastest runners? We have spent an entire month chasing some of you guys. Why are you intimidated by an aircraft that can only keep pace?
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You been fling Allied, Storch???:cool:
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Originally posted by tzr
You been fling Allied, Storch???:cool:
I've been flinging allieds :D
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ROFL....maybe I should check my spelling...:lol :lol
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.:eek:
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There was no DB603 production varient of the Fw 190 until the Ta 152, which didn't see action until the last few weeks of the war. I suppose it's possible that someone borrowed a DB603 engined prototype at Rechlin and encountered allied fighters (although the references I've seen said these didn't even fly until november of 44). But they certainly weren't at the front in any strength, especially in the East.
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Originally posted by Sable
There was no DB603 production varient of the Fw 190 until the Ta 152, which didn't see action until the last few weeks of the war. I suppose it's possible that someone borrowed a DB603 engined prototype at Rechlin and encountered allied fighters (although the references I've seen said these didn't even fly until november of 44). But they certainly weren't at the front in any strength, especially in the East.
I'm just posting what is in Jane's They made no reference as to whether sightings were on the eastern or western fronts. You are certainly free to argue the point with Jane's if you wish. :rolleyes:
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My references 190A7s being converted to Ds in late '43 and early '44. As long as its not too out of wack we can sacrifice a bit on the historical side. Besides, the Russians have Tigers.
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Yea and those tigers are a B*tch in the vertical:rofl :rofl :aok
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Originally posted by storch
I'm just posting what is in Jane's They made no reference as to whether sightings were on the eastern or western fronts. You are certainly free to argue the point with Jane's if you wish. :rolleyes:
Jane's information is wrong ... that's all I'm saying.
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Originally posted by tzr
Yea and those tigers are a B*tch in the vertical:rofl :rofl :aok
All that extra mass gives it the Tiger a great zoom climb though. :)
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HELLIAWA......?
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Originally posted by DJ111
HELLIAWA......?
Geez darn it, Deej! *Slap Deej back of his head like Three Stooges*
THAT"S HELLACKIAWA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D
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You two gonna fly again or just come back and post Hackajawa back and forth at each other like it's some sort of gay commie code?
:D
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tim, i made a poland map and showed it to reschke a while ago, and he told me not enough bases, when i had just a little over 60..
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Add 2 or 4. :D
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i am waiting for mr. forks suggestions i've got the road system all sorted out and just waiting on forks input.
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Originally posted by Sable
Jane's information is wrong ... that's all I'm saying.
Lol, please!! :rofl
Ehemm... ok im calm now.
Can you support this statement by any means of proof?
Else its not worth much... :rolleyes:
regards
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Originally posted by Arlo
You two gonna fly again or just come back and post Hackajawa back and forth at each other like it's some sort of gay commie code?
:D
No, not coming back :p
(http://www.brinkmann-herford.com/BaghdadB.jpg)
There is no commie code in our posts!
The only commie is Arlo, he will roast in the devil's belly....and such....!
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Appears to me that we have all the usual Finn-Rus planes except for one.
Any chance of getting the Hurri I in there on the Finn side?
- oldman
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Just take the IIc up oldman and 'imagine' your in a MkI... I'm sure you'll get your Hurricane fix in only 1 or 2 sorties. :aok
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Any chance of getting the Hurri I in there on the Finn side?
For you? No problem. :aok
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Doras went into service in September of 1944, some sources say October (as above) but lets not split hairs. Close enough. Fall of 44.
Any "1943" or "January 44" info on the Dora being operational (squadron combat service) is flat out wrong, sorry. Any such dates would be for flown prototypes only. Apples and oranges. As an example the RAF had Spitfire Mk IXs flying well before July 1942, but that has nothing to do with its operational debut date, which is July 1942, not before, makes no difference what the factory at Castle Bromwhich made, or what expiramental type they were flying before that. The 1st P-51D flew in November 1943...again, thats all well and good, but has nothing to do with its intro date to combat squadrons.
...not that that matters because the Yak-9U is in there too and its the same timeframe (August 44 therebouts), give or take a month so fair is fair. Dora vs Yak-9U is a fine matchup, seems to make sense. I would maybe add the Hurricane II and the A-20 as lend lease types if they aren't in there already, just for variety.
I could see making bones about it if it was just the Yak-9T available, so as it is I dont see what the debate is over.
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...not that that matters because the Yak-9U is in there too and its the same timeframe ( August 44 therebouts),
I had 3/44, I dont doubt your info though.
I would maybe add the Hurricane II and the A-20 as lend lease types if they aren't in there already, just for variety
The A20 has been there and the Hurri IIc and "B239" was added yesterday.
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I have the same Janes source, it states that the prototypes were converted to the new engine in late 1943, thats all, it gives no in service dates. Im not making any accusations here either, im just saying that those kind of dates are easily mixed up, some books give wrong dates, some give conflicting dates and some quote delivery or 1st flown dates, which are all different. Storches info is correct, for what it gives.
As I said before, at what point the RAF put a Merlin 61 into a Mk V airframe for the 1st time (the summer of 1941), is not the in service date for the Spit IX in squadron service (summer of 1942). Thats just one ex.
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Originally posted by JensK
Lol, please!! :rofl
Ehemm... ok im calm now.
Can you support this statement by any means of proof?
Else its not worth much... :rolleyes:
regards
Try Donald Caldwell's "JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe" or his "JG26 Pictorial History". Caldwell did meticulous research to be able to put together a near day to day narrative of the activities of JG26, and link it with history of allied units to determine who they fought on what day. John Weal (has written a number of books for Osprey) also puts the Dora's intro into service as fall of 1944. Eric Brown, an RAF test pilot during the war who wrote "Duels for the Sky" and "Wings of the Luftwaffe" and test flew most all of the German aircraft, also places it as a fall entry into service.
Or look at the link I posted earlier. It has a number of pages with orders of battle for the Luftwaffe on various dates, and the authors included their sources.
On top of that, the german test documents I've found for the 190D-9 are dated in early '45.
And "sightings" doesn't necessarily count for much. During the Battle of Britain, British pilots claimed to have encountered and shot down He 100 fighters that were never deployed there. When the 1st FG raided Ploesti in June of '44 they encountered a group of Romanian IAR-80s and reported them as being FW-190s. So when Jane's puts something out saying "Allied pilots reported seeing long nose 190s in January 44" that really doesn't mean a lot to me.
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Originally posted by Slash27
Any chance of getting the Hurri I in there on the Finn side?
For you? No problem. :aok
Thank ewe!
- oldman
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Originally posted by Arlo
You two gonna fly again or just come back and post Hackajawa back and forth at each other like it's some sort of gay commie code?
:D
Hello, SALLY!
Mr. Deej111 will not be back and I will be back probably around after thanksgiving or before christmas, depends how am I doing in College before final exams in December 14. :)
Like General Douglas MacArthur said "I Shall Return" :D