Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: la7'sRule on September 05, 2004, 08:49:09 PM
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129398
could u chk this post
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No. It's the principle of the thing.
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What principal would that be?
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Common courtesy dictates that you at least describe what the link leads to and/or what the issue is about. Aside from that if it's already in the forums (a visual scan of the link confirms this) then I/we may already have read it. If it's a dead post you are trying to revive for no reason or for your own reason, well it died in the first place. Let it stay dead.
No offense, but my answer is "no" still.
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Not understanding what the problem is... your question was answered in that thread....
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i would help you, but your name associate la7 with something positive, thats a no no
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lol i posted q in worng room,
i also beleve that You cannot find 1 bad thing to say about the la7 apartfrom its 2 good.
la7's rule man lo
great visibilaty,
3x 20mm
will out run most if not all non perk planes Including p-51
out turns most if not all planes including spits
Seems to me your just a whiner.
La7s kick bellybutton And you just cry about it :)
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and thats not a priincipal btw :)
But least you gave a reason
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well since you put it like this
la7s are perked (250 perks to fly one) in the Arenas
atleast the kind that out turn spits :rofl
i would love to open your eyes about the la7, but i guess you only play in H2H?
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The La-7 does rule ... but that is not a good thing. ;)
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Well it has a downfall where it isn't good at higher altitudes (above 10k), it has crappy range, especially in the MA where the burn multiplier is 2. The cannons are useful, but not as powerful as hispanos that you would get on a spitfire/typhoon, but they are still cannons. I know you say it turns with a spit, but if that spit gets slow the lala can't hang with it. And where you are right that the lala can catch most planes on the deck, in a dive a pony will outrun it, along with a dora, and usually a tiffie can extend far enough to get away. Also it does get a little sluggish at higher rates of speed, to where if you dive after a dora, he can scissor at the deck and you will probably lawn dart. =) But it is a great plane, especially for base defense.
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besides... its gay :cool:
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Lets analyze the La7:
It has a hyperdrive that can go .5 past light speed.
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Originally posted by Howitzer
Well it has a downfall where it isn't good at higher altitudes (above 10k), it has crappy range, especially in the MA where the burn multiplier is 2. The cannons are useful, but not as powerful as hispanos that you would get on a spitfire/typhoon, but they are still cannons. I know you say it turns with a spit, but if that spit gets slow the lala can't hang with it. And where you are right that the lala can catch most planes on the deck, in a dive a pony will outrun it, along with a dora, and usually a tiffie can extend far enough to get away. Also it does get a little sluggish at higher rates of speed, to where if you dive after a dora, he can scissor at the deck and you will probably lawn dart. =) But it is a great plane, especially for base defense.
There are a few errors in your assessment of the La-7. First the La-7 still does more than 410 mph at 20k, hardly a poor performer. Depending on the weight of fuel the La-7 can indeed hang with a Spit IX in slow turns at low alt, but with the added advantage of being able to disengage at any time should the fight turn against it. The cannons on the La-7 are not as powerful as the Hispano II, but they have a higher rate of fire and the La-7 carries three of them so the La-7 should be equal if not better armed than a Spit IX.
The only disadvantage in the La-7 that I can find is its limited range. However in the MA this is somewhat offset by the short distances between airfields, and the fact that at altitude the La-7 consumes considerably less fuel than at SL. Also since the La-7 does 366 mph on the deck without WEP it doesn't need much fuel to return home since it will get there fast.
All in all the AH2 La-7 is clearly, beyond a doubt, the best unperked fighter. Even if you add the perked planes I would only consider the Tempest, Me-262 and Me-163 to be superior, and only marginally with regard to the Tempest.
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LA7 though good in alot of different aspects is still mediocre in the hands of an unskilled pilot. Stats mean nothing when the person in control cannot take advantage of those stats and use them to their advantage. Great fighter and unskilled pilot means uneffective missions.
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Originally posted by la7'sRule
lol i posted q in worng room,
i also beleve that You cannot find 1 bad thing to say about the la7 apartfrom its 2 good.
la7's rule man lo
great visibilaty,
3x 20mm
will out run most if not all non perk planes Including p-51
out turns most if not all planes including spits
Seems to me your just a whiner.
La7s kick bellybutton And you just cry about it :)
Do they even HAVE La7s in Everquest? I ask because I've never played it.
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I'm sorry, I meant to clarify, my assessment was done while comparing it to a spit V and that is where I mention it can outturn a lala. I think it is more what you like... that 500 rounds of 50cal, and 250 hispano are pretty nice. I prefer them to the 450 of the russian cannons. That higher rate of fire is another reason why I don't use the la7, I like to throw short bursts with cannons and I can't help but spray everything with the lala =) Good conversation arlo...
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Originally posted by GScholz
All in all the AH2 La-7 is clearly, beyond a doubt, the best unperked fighter. Even if you add the perked planes I would only consider the Tempest, Me-262 and Me-163 to be superior, and only marginally with regard to the Tempest.
I believe you will have to qualify that by adding the term, "below 10,000 ft."
Let's say you are in an La-7 hustling along at 15k and you run into a P-51B on a reciprical heading. What do you do?
Well, let's examine the performance of each at 15k. That green Mustang is about 35 mph faster at that altitude. It climbs better by about 400 fpm at that height. Maneuverability is in the P-51B's favor, especially if speeds degrade to 200 mph, where the Mustang's flaps allow it to turn inside the La-7 without major effort. What do you do? If pilots skills are equal, it's just a matter of time before the P-51B is locked on the Lavochkin's tail. You can't climb away, you can't win by turn fighting, acceleration is close to equal and diving away won't help you as the P-51B handles better at high speed and can dive with just about anything. Frankly, you're in a pickle.
We have flown this scenario in the TA several times, with a decent stick flying the La-7. Every time, the Lavochkin gets clobbered. Not just beaten, but abused. Each time the La-7 had to head for the deck where it had the speed to make a fight of it. In this case, it didn't matter as he was forced to maneuver and the P-51B wins a turn fight most of the time.
We repeated the fight using a P-47D-40, with low gas (used a drop tank to get to altitude) and six guns, short clip. Again, the La-7 was in deep bandini from the merge. At high speeds the Jug is a dream, fast rolling, excellent stability. Dive acceleration is terrific. Oh, and let's not forget climb and zoom climb ability. At 15k the D-40 easily out-climbs the La-7. We let the fight spiral down to the deck (in this case, the sea). The La-7 driver built up some speed and went vertical. Imagine his shock to see that big 'ol Jug right there. Climb rate for a light D-40 exceeds 4k/min from sea level, and is still doing 3,800 fpm at 15k, that's just about 900 fpm better than the Lavochkin (both using WEP). Okay, what about a turning contest? The La-7 should handily out-turn the Jug, right? Wrong. Again, the superior flap system makes a huge difference. Two notches of flaps and the La-7 begins to lose ground. Another notch down and the Jug can pull lead for a shot anytime you want to. The only real option for the La-7 is to unload and run. Since it takes a few seconds to get the Jug cleaned up, the La-7 pulls out to 600 yards. Not far enough tho. He gets painted like a restroom wall and has to maneuver, rolling and jinking. That, however, cancels his acceleration advantage. The instant he stops maneuvering, he gets painted again. Before we broke off the fight, that La-7 took enough hits to kill it 3 or 4 times. He tried chopping power, slowing to nearly a stall. He dumped his flaps, nothing helped. I could kill my speed faster and had much better control at very low speeds.
Sound like nonsense to you? It's not. Configured as I flew it, it weighed about 12,000 pounds, divided by 300 square feet of wing and you have a wing loading of 40 lbs sq/ft. On the other hand, the La-7 with 50% fuel weighs in at about 7,200 lbs, with 189 square feet of wing, or about 38 lbs sq/ft wingloading. This gives a slight edge to the Lavochkin. However, we haven't factored in the P-47's slotted flaps, which increase wing area up to 13% when fully down. Even deployed only about 1/3, that provides enough to gain the edge on the La-7, and those flaps can be set there at speeds 50 mph faster than that where the La-7 can begin lowering its less effect flaps. Stall fighting the P-47D-40 with an La-7 is futile, the Jug owns the La-7 at 180 mph. Remember, the key is to fly the P-47 as light as possible, using external fuel to get you to the fight. It's also wise to understand that while you may be able to grind the La-7 into the ground in a stall fight, the odds are that some other guy is going to hammer you while you are low and slow. So, stall fight if you want, but you had better not be in an area where other enemy fighters are present, 'cause they will likely smack you.
So, am I saying the La-7 can't beat the D-40 Jug? Heck no! If the La-7 has a significant E advantage and the pilot maintains that advantage, the Jug is in deep trouble. There's no question that the La-7 is the best low altitude fighter in the game. Nonetheless, if you take it out of its element, it becomes rather average very quickly. It's a good fighter at 10-20k, but not a great one. There are great fighters at those altitudes and they can and will dominate the La-7 should they engage up there.
My regards,
Widewing
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Nice write-up. It's well laid out and nicely tested.
However this is how I see the MA really happening...
Furball with spits, n1k2s, p38s, p51s, and 190ds, ranging from deck to about 10k. Most of it below 5k. In comes Mr. La7, at 450mph on the deck, makes a pass, with his superior speed latches onto a target, BLAM blows it up instantly, pulls hard Gs, BOOM blows up 3 more, uh-oh, speed is getting low... nose down, run for the hills.. Only once the enemy dip to about 6k in the distance does he climb back up and dive in again at 475 mph (450 wasn't fast enough last time, so 475 might do this time).
Repeat ad nauseum, and add to that the fact that the pilot with the most kills (the La7) is the most newbie-fied and inexperienced greenhorn you ever met, and it's just stupid.
LA7 needs bad handling characteristics to weed out the newbies. 109G10 is great but is really hard to fly. Same should be true of la7, but it's not. Point. Click. Get kills without looking. That's why people hate it. Myself included. LA7s ruin the fun.
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One thing I've found about most LA7 drivers is that there is only a few things needed to defeat their high speed runs like that.
For starters some decent SA. Secondly if you can't bleed to much E due to more cons around then here's what I suggest. Go into a low g turn preferrably nose down. Keep the turn relatively light then as they start to go to lead for the shot pull slightly tighter all the while lightly backing off the throttle. Not to much to alert them though. Then just as it starts hitting 400 go a little tighter and reverse roll back across your initial path.
8 times out of ten this will work from my experiences. They are pressing so hard that they can't see the loading and unloading and the reverse roll coming. They see that little bit of lead and expect to get a clean shot soon.
If they seem to want to saddle up then you can use a similiar setup but instead use uncoordinated rudder in your barrell roll and hard off throttle at the time of the reversal. This should slow you down alot and on top of it make you a hard target through the barrell roll.
On the downside of that roll use immediate flaps if available and a few snap banks. I tend to maybe do one snap opposite of the roll then reverse roll again to the low side if alt permits. Then bring it back up through over the top. This probably isn't the best way but it seems to work for me. Most of the time the maneuvers I do are an instinct so they aren't always the same.
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Originally posted by Widewing
I believe you will have to qualify that by adding the term, "below 10,000 ft."
No, but I will add the qualifier "in the MA".
In your La-7 vs. B-Pony and Jug matchups the La-7 still holds significant advantages. The La-7 can at all times disengage. At 15k the La-7 can sacrifice alt to gain turn ratio (like any plane) at low alts it will dominate both fighters in every category of performance. At medium alt the Pony will achive parity and a slight advantage in speed and climb while the Jug is still inferior.
It should be noted that at 15k the B-Pony also outperformes the most heavily perked prop-fighter in the game, the Tempest.
While the La-7 would have performed poorly on the western front in WWII it is perfect for the MA. Something that got the very similar, but slightly better performing Tempest perked like no other prop-fighter.
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anyone forgeting that the Spit14 is a better match for the LA7 then the tempest
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Had a 1 vs 1 fight in a Spit IX vs a La-7 last night.
Altitude was 20-25K, I got bounced.
Anyway, when the Spitfire runs on the second stage turbine (you can hear it) the La was no match. I got on its tail, speed was high, La tried to extend but could not, - Spitty gained on it easily.
Eventually he dove away.
A good Lala killer is a P51B.
I have not yet got the feeling that the La is an uber-turner.
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la7's at alt with spit behind . i would roll so roof faces floor make a semi loop backwards and end up passing below the spit
(you uet it get to like 1k distancve 1st)
you will shot past the spit and they Always like to follow,
the la will be doing over 400mph by ow and prolly be 2k+ away from spit. simply turn and attack the spit.
Will work.
Just dont climb :)
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Originally posted by simshell
anyone forgeting that the Spit14 is a better match for the LA7 then the tempest
No, the Spit14 is more like a super 109. It is too slow down low, but climbs like a rocket. The Tempest is the super Lala, they have almost identical performance curves, with the Temp being slightly better at everything but turning.
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la7 realy is a great Plane as this Board seems to be implying...
However there are better planes But they dont have the same visabilaty.
Unless your using the im a newb external view mode. You cant realy see out of most planes.
la7's and la5's Have Great vision above and behind.
i would use a n1k or a p51 But you may aswell dog fight in a c47 (view wize)
I relize ppl hate la7's Becous they aint good enought to fly them and always die using them, and other ppl kill them when they come against 1.
I have respect for any plane i c in the air,
You people need to learn to respect them 2
la7's May be your better. But that dont mean Plots are.
(cos i suck prety bad :P)
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Originally posted by Cobra412
One thing I've found about most LA7 drivers is that there is only a few things needed to defeat their high speed runs like that.
For starters some decent SA. Secondly if you can't bleed to much E due to more cons around then here's what I suggest. Go into a low g turn preferrably nose down. Keep the turn relatively light then as they start to go to lead for the shot pull slightly tighter all the while lightly backing off the throttle. Not to much to alert them though. Then just as it starts hitting 400 go a little tighter and reverse roll back across your initial path.
Yah i see ppl do this....
usyualy they get 1 on ya 6 as well...
you just follow the guy whos leading you for a while then as he thinks your gonna line up the shot Dissingae And kill the guy on ya 6 Works every time.
Then u can easily regroup and take out the 1st leader plane.
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la7 is not a perk plane
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yet...its still gay:rolleyes: :cool:
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Originally posted by la7'sRule
Unless your using the im a newb external view mode.
I thnik taht seting sould be disalbed!
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What do you mean the view from a p51 or a p47 sucks? The D model pony has the bubble canopy where you can see everything, and the 25 and 40 jug models do as well. So you can see more clearly from these than that la7 with the small structure at the back of the canopy.
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the p58 has great vis But is to big and easy to shoot tail off.
la7 has perfect vis if you use save head position...
Ive used the p51's and u cant see enough to fight properly
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Just a question, - the Russian planes all seem to roll rather well.
Was that really so? Were they ahead of all other warring nations in that respect?
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(http://www.northcarolinasportsman.com/columns/baited-breadth/2003/images/baited-breadth-5-03.jpg)
When fish see red on a lure’s hooks,
one hook-maker says they will rush to the lure
because of the “gill-flash” phenomenon — when
most fish feed, their gills flare, revealing red.[/b]
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I beleeve the germans were ahead of the game when it comes to planes and tanks.
I never relized russians had planes till i played ah2 lol
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and as for fish,,,
luer colours shoul be changed in conjuntion with the seasons...
difrent flys n larvies hatch at dif times.
So just as fith fly's needing to be correct for time of season...
So do the luers
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I occasionally use mauve or pink when I want them to come out in the Spring but this is the Fall so I use dynomite instead.
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Originally posted by Arlo
I occasionally use mauve or pink when I want them to come out in the Spring but this is the Fall so I use dynomite instead.
:rofl :rofl He never will get it.
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Well its better than grenades