Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: muerto on September 06, 2004, 03:31:00 PM
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I was wondering any of you are helicopter pilots. If so, can you please give me your opinion of the following:
Is it difficult to find a job as a helicopter pilot?
Is there a general shortage of helicopter pilots in the US?
Have you ever heard of Silver State Helicopters? (And if so do you know anything about them, good or bad.)
Thanks
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I think Gixer is a Niki pilot :)
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Originally posted by muerto
I was wondering any of you are helicopter pilots. If so, can you please give me your opinion of the following:
Is it difficult to find a job as a helicopter pilot?
Is there a general shortage of helicopter pilots in the US?
Have you ever heard of Silver State Helicopters? (And if so do you know anything about them, good or bad.)
Thanks
1. Yes i'm a rotor head as well as fixed wing.
Job placement - most of the guys getting jobs for corperate heli and government (i.e. police, fbi, dea) are ex Army or USMC heli guys. If you are trained as a civi, you are at a serious disadvantage because all of the time the military guys will have is heavy turbine.
2. Helicopter guys are specialists - i've heard that there is a glut and a shortage, but I think the reality tends towards the shortage because there are so fewer heli pilots over fixed wing.
3. Silver state - no. where are they located?
Wolfala
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Wolfala,
Nevada is "the Silver State" so as you might guess that is where they are headquartered.
However, when they move into an area, their business model has them train non-pilots who already live in the area to be pilots whom they then hire; thus bringing jobs to an area. They say they do this because in the past they have been unable to find qualified pilots who they wanted to hire.
They have recently come to San Diego and say they are looking to hire 35 people to become pilots.
The deal is one of those where you have to think "Well, it sounds too good to be true, so it probably is."
However, they have been at it for several years and I can not find anything negative about them.
They claim there is a helicopter pilot shortage, (something like only 16000 commercially licensed heli pilots in the US) and that consequently helicopters have stopped flying all but essential missions so the shortage isn't as apparent as it should be.
Their goal is to create jobs (everything from sightseeing tours, law enforcement, border patrol, charter flights, etc, etc) for the pilots they train and hire.
From what I can tell, they seem to have been successful in Las Vegas, Utah, and other parts of CA.
I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to take the bait.
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Jet fighters rule! Helichoppers are cool as well just not as fun as jet fighters!
:D
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Originally posted by muerto
I was wondering any of you are helicopter pilots. If so, can you please give me your opinion of the following:
Is it difficult to find a job as a helicopter pilot?
Is there a general shortage of helicopter pilots in the US?
Have you ever heard of Silver State Helicopters? (And if so do you know anything about them, good or bad.)
Thanks
"Is it difficult to find a job as a helicopter pilot?"
Yes extremely difficult. Mainly because operators will state minumum PnC time usually in the 1000 plus hours range for the type of helicopter in use. This is 1000 plus turbine time, non turbine time is worth next to nothing.
Also they might have 10 or 20 resumes for one job offering and obvioulsy they are going to select the person with the most experience that they can afford.
Operating helicopters is a very expensive business and often there isn't much left over to pay the pilots, so quite often operators will take on guys who will fly for nothing, which allows the pilot to get some stick time and the operators to save on some expenses.
Most helicopter pilots (unless they come through the military) first job will be as an instructor which of course requires an instructor rating and usually a minimum of 300 hours in type like a Robinson or H300.
As an instructor you can build up your hours and do the odd charter work. Again gaining turbine time is difficult to come by you really have to push and go for anything possible. Also as an instructor you earn bugger all.
You have to be willing to travel anywhere in the world and do anything to get your foot in the door and start logging some time. Even once you have a few hours you'll still be traveling around alot. Great if you like that lifestyle.
What often get refered to as "Good Jobs" flying for the local TV station,Police,Medical or what ever are taken up by those with 5000 plus hours and once in won't be leaving anytime soon. So thinking you might be able to get a job in your home town working for the local TV station or whatever could be along way off if ever.
Another thing to keep in mind is that you have to be physically and medically fit. A failure in obtaining your medical certificate at any time can end your career. Good friend of mine at 36 had his flying career ended by bad ECG result
"Is there a general shortage of helicopter pilots in the US?"
I'm not sure on the US as I'm only familiar with NZ,Aussie,Pacific Islands,Papa New Guinea. But there always seems to be or currently more pilots out there then jobs available. Mainly because there really aren't all that many operators out there. That haven't already got very qualified guys working for them on a regular basis. Plus pilots being a global market they have guys constantly sending in resumes looking for work.
Helicopter operators in NZ that I know would probably receive a resume a week atleast from people looking for work.
No idea what the US or Canada markets are like, but as far as I know there is no shortage or forcasted shortage.
"Have you ever heard of Silver State Helicopters? (And if so do you know anything about them, good or bad.)"
Absolutely nothing. Only advice I can give there is which ever school you decide to do your training with. Make sure they are also a Commerical Operator! Single most important thing to look for if your going commerical. As they will often provide your first jobs and/or contacts.
Sorry to be a bit grim but you have to be realistic. Receiving the usual "Yes but if you work hard you'll get there" etc is nice but again you have to be realistic as flying helicopters takes alot of time dedication and most of all money. True at the end of the day after alot of hard work, very very hard work you might have a career flying helicopters.
But really unless your able to go through the military for flight training or single with heaps of spare cash. I would say you need to think long and hard about your expectations and what your looking for.
If you have some spare cash and always wanted to fly, go for a PPL get a turbine rating if you can afford it and enjoy your flying. Pretty much what I do now except for when ever the odd job comes up through contacts.
There are plenty of Helicopter related sites on the net with job related information. It will give you an idea of requirements. Don't expect a realistic answer from instructors as they are there to sell you a licence they don't necessary really care what happens next.
If you'd like to discuss this more or any other questions please feel free to contact me.
desther@paradise.net.nz
...-Gixer
(CPL-H R22,H300,H500)
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Just remember this:
two types of Aircraft, Fighters & Targets
Choppers are in the last :D
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Originally posted by Heater
Just remember this:
two types of Aircraft, Fighters & Targets
Choppers are in the last :D
And your experience is? Or just a quote you like to use from a book on fighter pilots you've read?
...-Gixer
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Gixer pretty much hit it on the head. The only place where helicopters are needed is the military. And that is a committment in of itself complete with the problem of AAA and MANPADS. If you have the money for the civilian ratings - if you wanted to "buy" the time u needed, that is all of the ratings + the turbine time to meet the minimum requirements for getting hired - you are looking at a mortage in the $100,000 range. And to be quite honest even that # is an underestimate. $250,000 is more realistic b/c a Bell 206 banks out at $500 per hour. There is a reason why greater then 95 % of helicopter pilots were ex Army or Marines - its cheaper.
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Look out for Blast who is US Army helicopter pilot. JoGee used to be a US Army helicopter pilot too, and I'm not sure if he instructs? Tjay is ex-RAF helicopter pilot.
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You should try to ask at PPRuNe:
http://www.pprune.org/forums
This is a thread conserning SSH:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=114777&highlight=silver+state+helicopters
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Thanks all for your posts.
I think as of today I have decided not to go with them.
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Gixer is 100% right on.
I am going to take lessons this fall just for fun. It will probably cost cloes to 40k to get a license even with my ultralight license and my PPL license experience. The ground school and theory are a piece of cake. The cost is all for building hours. I asked the school about job placement and they said that you need to earn time and the way to do that is to work for free for some operator and hope they give you stick time as a reward.
Work for free means sweep floors, empty trash and answer phones not fly as a co pilot for free.
The ex military guys will get all the jobs as they have the hours and the experiece. You will have maybe 100 hours total after lessons and you will be lucky to have 5 in a turbine. How will you get up to 1000 turbine which is the minimun you will need to get a job? Turbine time is 500 a hour. Do the math.
I am too old to ever hope to get a job in aviation (anyone over 30 starting out is probably too old) but I intend to fly for fun. I can write off the lessons so they actually cost about half of what I pay for them as I will get the rest back on my tax return. But except for teaching ground school there is really no chance of getting a job in the field. Too bad it would be cool.
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Rotorcraft pilot here... only private, though. If you are not military and not a millionaire, then your only hope of becoming a paid commercial helicopter pilot is to become an instructor for a few years and build up your hours that way.
Definitely do it as a hobby, though... there is nothing else like it. Fixed-wingers will never understand.
ps. oh yeah... your fixed-wing PPL may hinder you a little. There are a lot of bad habits (bad for helis, that is) that you will have to unlearn.
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Originally posted by muerto
Thanks all for your posts.
I think as of today I have decided not to go with them.
Muerto,
You can always go for the trial flight and see what you think, if your totally dedicated you do what I did and just do a few lessons at a time work 3 jobs and after about 18mths you'll have your PPL and if you still have some cash left over can enjoy it by taking friends and family to the beach.
Main thing is not to think that you'll be able to walk into a job with a CPL and 150 hours. Unless of course your dad owns HeliJet then I'd say go for it. :-)
Best of luck.
...-Gixer
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So, hows that Bell 609 commin along?
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Hey, What's involved for a helo solo?
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Originally posted by Gyro/T69
Hey, What's involved for a helo solo?
Atleast 10 hours sweating learning to stay still a few feet above one spot on the ground. From then on it's all fun.
I really can't remember how long it took me to solo, maybe around 15-20 hours, it's alot harder then learning to fly a fix wing. Since a helicopter naturally wants to throw itself into the ground. Where a plane trimmed out will fly some distance.
I could always dig out my old logbook and give a rundown of the lessons.
...-Gixer
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Should have said, what do you have to do during the first solo in a helo?
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First solo: Take off, do a pattern, land. Same as fixed-wing solo, pretty much.
like Gixer said, the first 8 hours or so make you wonder if you're ever going to learn it. Then, at some point, it all "clicks" and you're doing it. The trick is you have to get familiar enough at the controls where you don't have to think about it, and your body reacts subconsciously. The brain isn't quick enough to process all the inputs and then assign reactions and then send the signals to all of your hands and feet... they just have to learn what to do on their own. That's the hard part.
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TO TRY TO STAY ALIVE :D
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Thank you all. All of your input is appreciated.
Gixer said:
Muerto,
You can always go for the trial flight and see what you think, if your totally dedicated you do what I did and just do a few lessons at a time work 3 jobs and after about 18mths you'll have your PPL and if you still have some cash left over can enjoy it by taking friends and family to the beach.
Main thing is not to think that you'll be able to walk into a job with a CPL and 150 hours. Unless of course your dad owns HeliJet then I'd say go for it. :-)
Best of luck.
Gixer,
I did take the trial flight. They took my wife and I up for about 20 minutes after my interview the other day. It was a blast, flying low down canyons and such. Wasn't the first time I was up in a helicopter though, so I knew I'd like it. Compared to fixed the visibility is fantastic, and there is just something about flying low (and being able to do it relatively safely) that is cool.
I've always thought helis were cool machines, but my real passion is fixed wing. I have 200+ hours, and will be taking my IFR check ride in a few weeks; planning on starting my commercial training in early November.
I decided against doing the heli thing because:
1. Even though it might (MIGHT) be a shortcut to a career in aviation (SSH claims they will hire you as a flight instructor and send you on whatever charter and ferry flights they can as soon as you finish their training program, and they pay a starting wage that would be $50K (after your first 6 months probationary period,) assuming you can fly 40 hours per week) until you have enough hours for them to make you a regular charter pilot) there is no guarantee of employment (understandably) and I think I can continue with my fixed wing training without going into huge dept, and for less money.
2. The process, from application to them inviting me to join their limited program, didn't go at all the way I thought it would. That, and an item or two on the contract they gave me to sign (they wanted me to read and sing there on the spot, I took it home to look and think over) sent up warning flags that made me feel more like I was being sold a timeshare than offered a potential future job. (Plus had a nearly hidden fee of $3000 should I quit or they kick me out, with or without cause.)
3. A discussion with my wife made me realize that she was willing to go along with committing all the financial resources necessary for me to get all the ratings necessary to become a commercial pilot and the hours to hopefully get a job (she knows how much I'm tired of my present job.) So if we were willing to commit $55K to go to helicopter school, why not commit it (and actually less money will be required for fixed) to get to where I need to be in fixed wing aircraft.
Thanks for the wish o fluck, I just may need some
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Muerto,
Actually a fixed wing CPL isn't a bad idea as some operators mainly the bush guys operate both fixed and fling wings. So if you happen later on to knock off a helicopter CPL that gives you a better chance then the next guy and more varied flying as a bonus.
Happend to be chatting with my old CFI today over lunch and we were talking generally about the aviation industry. He mentioned a guy that has just recently finished his fixed CPL,IFR and Multi Engine ratings and landed a job for some bush operator in Africa. So you never know.
Though getting your multi engine rating isn't cheap, almost on par with helicopter time per hour and I think you need around 50 hours for a multi rating. Then there is turbine on top of that which means more hours and more classroom time.
When you reach your CPL for fixed keep in touch, my old CFI is also a 777 and currently a 737 captain. So he knows everything there is to know about commercial aviation at all levels all over the world.
...-Gixer