Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SOB on January 07, 2001, 02:59:00 AM
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I'm still not sure exactly what the plane values for perk points are based on, but from what Pyro said, it seems it's based on number of kills by a plane. The CHog has 20% more kills than any other plane in the arena, thus making any plane worth 20% more perk points than the next highest plane, which Pyro says is too high. He'd be the one to know, so I can't/won't argue with that. However, if 20% will skew the numbers too much, why not just put a cap on how far ahead of the pack the most popular plane can be as far as perk point value. Just cap it at 1-5% more value than the next most popular plane, and you will still get more points for killing it, and it won't skew the numbers so bad.
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad idea, it's just an idea. I rarely, if ever fly the CHog, but I know how I'd feel if my favorite ride was perked out from under me. Fortunately for me, I'm loving the Hellcat as much as my other fav (the niki), so I'm not too worried for myself.
<rant>
So there are a lot of CHogs in the arena right now. I say, so what? It's a popular plane for whatever reason, and a lot of people want to fly it. The fact still remains that it's just a big blue turd that can be killed easily, unless it's flown with skill. The narrow minded idiots out there will still complain and squeak and call anyone that chooses to fly the bird a "Quakedweeb" or "Chog Dweeb" with no ACM skills, but they pretty much show their intellectual capacity and fragile egos when they do so.
</rant>
SOB
...sorry, the last paragraph was for the anti-chog picketers who will soon inundate this thread...I know Pyro's descision is based soley on numbers and not the whining.
[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 01-07-2001).]
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hi:
chogs in the MA, hmmmmm I dont think I have ever seen one. hehehehehe
ok, the reason there are so many chogs now is because of the carriers, so if the chog is perked, then the next will be the hellcat, as it will be the most used carrier aircraft in the game.
Now as for the chog getting perked, I dont care, I dont fly it and wont use perk points to fly it. I am one of the worst chog pilots in the game.
hmmmmmmm maybe I'll try the 205 for a few nights. been a well since I have flown the 205 more then one or two sorties. well what ever happens, I will be here to see it.
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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS
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The whole idea behind perk planes was to diversify the game. More people will fly less popular airplanes for the chance to fly the super planes latter.
I think the C-hog is getting perked not because it is so good, but because there are no perk planes, so it gets to be the perk untill we get some really wild airplanes. Nobody is trying to fly anything else because there is no reason too, no tangible reward.
It may get unperked when its true replacment gets introduced in 1.06.
Hans.
[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 01-07-2001).]
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D hog should be favored over C hog, when it comes to numbers built.
Just minority of hogs were C's right?
Those 4 hispanos are super like we all know and plane has been made in few hundreds, so there would be a great perk plane. (or can we have Ta-152 as well without perk points or a very low requirements?)
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- The F4U-1C has 15229 kills and has been killed 11224 times
- The F6F-5 has 6258 kills and has been killed 7128 times
- The PT-Boat has 5353 kills and has been killed 7117 times
- The N1K2 has 5827 kills and has been killed 4735 times.
- The F4U-1D has 4823 kills and has been killed 4846 times
- The Spitfire Mk IX has 3145 kills and has been killed 3224 times
- The Seafire Mk II has 3090 kills and has been killed 3989 times
- The Bf 109G-10 has 1872 kills and has been killed 1652 times
- The TBM-3 has 1397 kills and has been killed 7319 times
- The Field Gunner has 5375 kills and has been killed 36 times
The F4u-1C did not used to be the problem it is today. People whined about it, but basically it was any other aircraft with better guns. The N1K actually out-flies it and has guns that are nearly as good. This was realized in the pre-navy tours as the N1K usage began to aproach Spit9 and C-Hog usage.
With the introduction of the Navy, the N1k usage wasn't really affected much. It is on par to do the near 10k kills it has been doing the last two tours. The spitfire has seen a dramatic drop in use as it was probably the most flown (tho not necessarily most killed) aircraft in AH. The LW planes are barely worth mentioning as they have seen greater than a 50% drop in use.
Basically, those people that were flying a more diverse group of aircraft have seemingly thrown it all in the can once the navy arrived. With the simple "whatever aircraft is best" mentality, the F4u-1C is being used by everyone. Of course, there is no shortage of people willing to join the zero risk "Field Gunner" position either. Of course, nobody claiming that the F4u-1C is uber has ever done that.
One irony is that one of the planes used almost as much as the F4u-1C is the TBM-3. Of course, one can kill while the other is pretty much defenseless.
Another sad thing is that alot of decent pilots are feeling they need to rely on the F4u-1C to maintain their score. I'm not talking the dedicated bunch that have been flying it since it came out... but those that had to give up their land-based rides and make a choice. You can't argue with the hispano's destructive power... but I have to wonder where the sense of accomplishment is. Seems fewer and fewer people are concerned with that.
One thing that might keep the 1C in check is to remove it from carrier service. This has effectively controlled the N1K and could do the same for the F4u-1C. Still make it landable on an aircraft carrier, but not spawnable from one. It could re-arm, re-fuel there but no more than that. That makes it carrier capable, but not carrier launchable. What is more accurate... F4u-1Cs being barely used from carriers, or more used than all other aircraft combined?
I'm not a big fan of perking the F4u-1C for the simple reason they are too easy to shoot down. Only two members of my squad do not have a better than 1:1 ratio against F4u-1Cs. As a result, who is going to want to waste perk points on an aircraft that really doesn't offer anything the Tiffie or the F4u-1D don't already offer?
And, for you whiners, those "turbo-lasers" are still out there. You didn't get rid of them, you just moved the clientele to a different ride. Be ready with a can of spray paint, so you can x out the "Ban the F4u-1C" on your signs and be ready for "Ban the next plane that kills me". Of course, you are now going to have to argue that another ride has the uber handling characteristics you know you saw... and that you mistook it for an F4u-1C last tour.. really it was this plane.
Aaa... why bother? There is so much more wrong with this MA than planeset/strat it is phenomenal. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 01-07-2001).]
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I have flown nothing but the D hog this tour. I believe that with the new guns you will see more D than C Hogs. Hope they don't perk the D hog tho. Maybe perk should be based on color? Blue planes being too good for normal MA? Sheesh.... When the -4 comes out they will have to be passed out like the medal of honor..... Hey fish.... wasn't the garden variety 109 G the plane most available to the germans?
Perk whatever plane Is the most popular after every tour. Eventually we will have a "fair" arena. Or.... dump the whole idiotic perk plane idea and just make early, mid and late war "areas" in the arena.
lazs
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You know I wounder if the japanesse cried as much about the f4u1c as you guys do. You do know in WWII there where butt kicking aircraft that where better then alot of the others. first off the the biggest crie about the chog is it's guns. well guess what you have less ammo then it's MG equipt counterpart so you have to have good aim. secondly the plane is slower then it's real life counterpart. the f4u was the first 400+mph carrier plane. Funny I can't ever seem to get it above 400mph not at any alt with 25% fuel no ordanance and thats True Air speed not indicated. same thing goes for the stang It's slow and it's exceleration sucks. the N1k2-j was posibly the best fighter of wwII and one of the most advanced (to bad only 400 of the n1k2-j's ever saw service then again For the US it was a good thing.) and even it seems undermodeled and leaning towards a turnfighter. I actually got outclimed once by a zeke in 1.04 while I was flying a f4u1c. So please Stop crying about aircraft unless you all want to be stuck flying spits becuase thats what your asking for.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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(http://www.hitechcreations.com/pyro/killstats.gif)
Here's what I'm referring to. This just shows kills per plane as a percentage of all kills in the arena. Obviously the carrier planes are getting heavy use and that needs to be considered, but even so that's quite a jump in the chart. I don't want to increase the range of point values because they get overvalued for killing them. Making it a low level perk has about the same effect but only hits it on one side of the equation. And that is what we're talking about, a low level adjustment, maybe a single point in cost. I don't know what it will take, that's part of transitioning this system from theory to practice and that will take time and adjustments before it stabilizes. As it stands now we have to get some other ducks in a row before we perk anything but it's likely to happen before long. It's just a practical matter to me, I don't tie my emotional stability one way or the other to any particular plane.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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I thought making the F4U-1C land based only would lower it's use. But as anyone can see even though the 'Niki' is land based it's still being used more than the F4U-1D. So the C-hog usage might drop fi ti was restricted to land bases but it would still be the most predominate plane encountered... imo.
Maybe, try land basing it AND having next to no value for using it - as regard perk points?
-Westy
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What about if you give a reward for killing things in less used planes. If I killed a Chog in a yak. Then I would get lots of points. But if I killed a yak in a Chog then i would get not so many points?
Somthing like that could work
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quote:
I don't tie my emotional stability one way or the other to any particular plane.
thats because you are a well balanced individual Pyro (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I thought making the F4U-1C land based only would lower it's use. But as anyone can see even though the 'Niki' is land based it's still being used more than the F4U-1D.
- 2 Weeks of tour 11: "The F4U-1D has 1280 kills and has been killed 2079 times"
- Tour 11: "The N1K2 has 6176 kills and has been killed 5977 times.
"- All 5 weeks of tour 10: "The F4U-1D has 1416 kills and has been killed 2456 times"
- Tour 10: "The N1K2 has 10915 kills and has been killed 9972 times"
The N1K2 use has not diminished that much. The F4u-1D is simply shooting up. The F6F-5 has done little to hold back the F4u-1D surge... despite its prolific use.
The truth is.. virtually all of the CV aircraft are being used extensively. Hell the Zero is even being used. What that factor did to the already most popular plane was simply too much.
Pyro doesn't want to remove it from carrier duty rosters (I disagree with this one)... so perking it is the only other option. Sadly.. this will be the death of the plane.
AKDejaVu
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Errr, Betown, that's excactly what the perk point system does right now... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Oh man, look at the graph - Mayhem I am sure the Japanese would have whined so loud about the CHog applied in this masses that you could have heard it in in Nothern Spain!!!
I am sure the big mass of the Choggers now aren't the hardcore fanatics that flew it from day one. As much as I despite the Hispanos I don't have any problem with the CHog nor want I to ban it from AH, on the contrary my favourite target now since it gives you good points! It just shifted the balance of the game to a point where you no longer can talk of diversity of the usage of planes. That graph speaks the truth out so loud that noone can overhear it. Personally I would like the perk system to take this factor in account in much stronger way.
I am sure any F4U lover can build the required perk points quickly in a D, but the opportunistic, BFG- addicted quakeminds will be slowed down a bit.
Well, as far we Luftwobbles count HTC never has given in to any whines and I hope it will stay that way for the other side as well... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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BTW.. the F4u-1C has been used more in the 10 days of tour 12 than it was in all 36 days of tour 10.
Projected stats would show that the F6F-5, N1K2 and F4u-1D will all surpass the F4u-1C's tour 10 usage. The truth is, two bases are sitting 3k apart from each other with endless streams of fighters hitting head on. I went from a .0011 k/sec to .0017 k/sec. Those that look only for CV furballs should have even higher numbers than that.
The fights are simply fast and furious. Making the 1C land-based only would remove it from 50% of the battle. Of course, you will see N1K2 stats go through the roof as its only real compitition has been effectively removed.
AKDejaVu
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Pyro:
This is a question to make sure I understand where you are coming from. I am going make a statement that I THINK matches your postion.
The arena is a better place (and more enjoyable for most players) when it is not dominated by a few aircraft. At this point the F4u-1C qualifies as "dominating" and this will be corrected via the perk system.
Is this statement more or less correct?
thanks,
Hooligan
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Central to the argument of the anti-CHog perkers is that the Niki will simply replace it totally and then IT will have to be perked.
I am ABSOLUTELY convinced that the current CHog sorties will end up divided among a wide variety of AC including Dhogs, Hellcats, Nikis, Typhoons, etc.
The Niki 1) Isn't the best jabo or tank-busting choice 2) isn't CV enabled.
You'll NEVER see as many Nikis with the CHog perked as you currently see CHogs.
People keep trying to insist anecdotally that there are as many Nikis now as Chogs but the hard numbers simply don't back that up.
[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 01-07-2001).]
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That's kind a broad generalization. I'm an "anti-chog perker", and people moving to the Niki has nothing to do with why I think it shouldn't be perked. I just think people should be able to fly what they want. However, in the end, if Pyro decides that it's best to perk it, then it probably is...or at least whatever he decides is good enough for me.
I've got no idea what the current Chog flyers will switch to, and to be honest, I really don't care...unless that leads to another plane in the current planeset being perked.
SOB
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The F4U-1C has 15229 kills and has been killed 11224 times
The F6F-5 has 6258 kills and has been killed 7128 times
The PT-Boat has 5353 kills and has been killed 7117 times
The N1K2 has 5827 kills and has been killed 4735 times.
The F4U-1D has 4823 kills and has been killed 4846 times
The Spitfire Mk IX has 3145 kills and has been killed 3224 times
The Seafire Mk II has 3090 kills and has been killed 3989 times
The Bf 109G-10 has 1872 kills and has been killed 1652 times
The TBM-3 has 1397 kills and has been killed 7319 times
The Field Gunner has 5375 kills and has been killed 36 times
PERK FIELD GUNNERS! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Moose (fpmoose)
Flying Pigs
OINK! OINK! TO WAR!!
[This message has been edited by Moose1 (edited 01-07-2001).]
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I just can't understand why people are so dependent one plane when they have a near copy already available. It's not like there will no longer be F4U's around...that would understandable if the case. Just like why the N1K2 would be very hard to perk...with it removed there would be a major unbalance for the Japanese plane set. It has no practical replacement.
But the 1C on the other hand, would require little adaptation to it's sibling. Not like they'd have to learn a whole new plane as would be in most other situations. If the 1A or the other stripped versions of the later F4U's come along the only real difference would be the guns, and with the current gunnery model the difference between the .50's and Hispanos is not near what it used to be.
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Btw if the cost IS one point, all you would need is 1 kill per mission to keep the 1C anyway.
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...you make a good point, jig (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'm not sure exactly what the price point for the chog should be, but judging by its insane populrity I think making it a 1 point plane makes lots of sense. Some have stated that this would only require 1 kill per sorte, but thats just not true! Remember, its your value divided by your opponents. SO if a Chog is perked and given the appropriate value of 5, and it kills an average plane with a 25, the perk points gained are only .2
Heck even if you leave the Chog at 10, most kills would result in .25 to .5 perk points. This would mean most Chog drivers would have to either keep a 3-1 kill ratio, or take other rides quite often.
and isnt that the idea?
(http://home.tampabay.rr.com/strategy/2late.jpg)
[This message has been edited by 2Late4U (edited 01-08-2001).]
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I don't want to increase the range of point values because they get overvalued for killing them. Making it a low level perk has about the same effect but only hits it on one side of the equation. And that is what we're talking about, a low level adjustment, maybe a single point in cost.
How about perking EVERY plane? Of course then there will not be perk planes so the name is misleading... If most basic planes like Bf 109F-4 and Spitfire Mk V would cost 0 pp's everybody can fly them all the time, no matter how crappy pilots they are and when those crappy pilots score a kill in those planes they get enought points to get a better plane for sortie or two. Gradually increase the cost of planes in proportion to rarity ie. F4U-1C would cost quite a lot since it was rare and Ta 152 would be VERY expensive!
This would effectively replace RPS if plane costs are balanced ie. they give possibility to ffy mid/late war planes with some regularity to almost all pilots.
Someone might say that they don't like restricting planes they can fly because they cannot fly and get kills without late war monsters... Maybe perk points could encourage them to learn to fly better? And perk limits would affect everyone ie. not every plane they would meet will be late war monster they are currently flying.
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jochen Gefectsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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Once there are "other" perk planes, even if the CHog is cheap, I doubt people will go for the immediate gratification of blowing a point on a plane they used to fly for free when they could "save up" for a Me-262 or Tempest.
And that's fine with me.
People will have the DHog. And the 6x50s are pretty deadly now. I'm still a horrible shot and I've de-winged B-17s in one pass with a P51 several times the last few days.
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Yes! the Field Gunners are uber!!!
Oh - did anyone notice that the name for the field gunner has changed? Does this indicate ack at fields becoming controllable?
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Originally posted by SOB:
That's kind a broad generalization. I'm an "anti-chog perker", and people moving to the Niki has nothing to do with why I think it shouldn't be perked. I just think people should be able to fly what they want. However, in the end, if Pyro decides that it's best to perk it, then it probably is...or at least whatever he decides is good enough for me.
I've got no idea what the current Chog flyers will switch to, and to be honest, I really don't care...unless that leads to another plane in the current planeset being perked.
SOB
DITTO THAT SOB, especially the LAST sentence!
People label me as a Chog supporter, howver, the last sentence is what concerns me the most!
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The c hog is a easy kill. I dont understand the fuss?
I think the perk system is bad.
I would rather see choice.
This game has to few planes to start locking them away from the average player.
EYE
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This thread is full of folks who are hailing the impending doom of AH because of a perk system that has not even been implemented yet. (We need some high and low point perk planes before I count it as "implemented".) Sheesh, you guys remind me of the lot of Y2K doom & gloomers that got everybody all stirred up last year.
You know, I think Pyro and HT have a lot more investment and experience with online flight sims than you lot of dweebs, and I'll trust their judgement over yours any day. (And a use the term "dweebs" with affection, since I am one too. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
BTW EYE, saying that perking the 1C at a very low level is locking it away from the average player is total crap. Pyro mentioned only a couple of points... everybody has SOME. The average pilot could likely fly the CHog at least 1/2 the time if not more. Just not ALL the time.
Lets at least see what happens guys. If there is some terrible effect on the arena by perking the C-Hog, HT and Pyro can always change it back. HTC will tune and adjust the system to make it work, but they have to actually implement it first. That's the whole point of the perk system, to give them a tool to tune the arena to a degree. It's silly to be comdeming it when it hasn't had time to work.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Lephturn you Cheerleader! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I just think the NORMAL D-hog should be more common, and the C-hog should be converted into a Corsair F4U-4C, and have a cost of 20 perk points.
I never liked the C-hog from day 1. I felt it didn't belong for game balance reasons and historic reasons, mainly because I see nothing wrong with the D-hog.
Equall rare planes like N1K2s and C.205s I have no problem with, because I knew they would be competitive, but not superior designs with the rest of the plane roster. This way Japan and Italy gets represented for those players who want to fly for those countries.
At this point in the game, I don't think a Fw190D9 would be a perk plane, but I want to wait untill I see what the game plays like after the C-hog is less common.
Hans.
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Originally posted by Hans:
I just think the NORMAL D-hog should be more common, and the C-hog should be converted into a Corsair F4U-4C, and have a cost of 20 perk points.
I never liked the C-hog from day 1. I felt it didn't belong for game balance reasons and historic reasons, mainly because I see nothing wrong with the D-hog.
Equall rare planes like N1K2s and C.205s I have no problem with, because I knew they would be competitive, but not superior designs with the rest of the plane roster. This way Japan and Italy gets represented for those players who want to fly for those countries.
At this point in the game, I don't think a Fw190D9 would be a perk plane, but I want to wait untill I see what the game plays like after the C-hog is less common.
Hans.
Little Biased there are you.
" I don't like the Chog it kicks my bellybutton waa! waaa! every ones flying it to Waa! waa! the guns are to big and work to well waa waaa! lets ban it waa! waa! Lets change it to another plane waaa! waa! Lets mess it's gunns up Waaa! Waaa! Lets perk it! waa waa!!"
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Scuse me while I puke .... in your cockpit! ... sorry for the chunks on your dash!
P.S. you know at one pount I was a really nice guy. Now I feel like Iam not only being an stunninghunk but I have to be one. I thought the army, law enforcement, and my Ex-girlfriend made me bad!
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Ripsnort,
The pom-poms I'll deal with, but no feaking way do you want to see me in that skirt. Trust me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Mayhem,
Sigh. "Vomit" is the best description for your post, that's for sure.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 01-10-2001).]
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
Ripsnort,
The pom-poms I'll deal with, but no feaking way do you want to see me in that skirt. Trust me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Mayhem,
Sigh. "Vomit" is the best description for your post, that's for sure.
ya but the really sad part is Iam right and Iam not watering it down any more.
Iam not a trainer Iam don't work for HTC and I could care less if the masses like me or agree with me or not. I wount change my opinion becuase the people don't like it and I wount play the PR game. If i can I'll drag the nasty stinky painfull truth in the open and make people see it. If Iam really right I know Iam gunna really erk alot of people. least iam not going to lie cover it up or wisper little sweet nothings in youre ear to get you to like or agree with me. If I think pyro Hitech or HTC or a group of people in the game is wrong Iam gunna say it ... bluntly.
hell In real life iam not nice and I don't water the facts or my opinions down. I just call it the way i see it and i say what i feel. You will either hate me for it or want to get drunk with me. least Iam not gunna Bs you or lie to you. And Iam not about to play nicey nice politics to impress people or make them like me.You either like me and except me for who and what Iam or you don't.
least iam more civil in the game alot of people are worse.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-10-2001).]
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All this hubbub about the Chog killing the game puzzles me. Who cares if lots of people are flying the Chog???
I seldom fly the CHOG, because I like other planes better. I've also never felt it was as dangerous as it's reputation. The guns are deadly, but no worse than the Typhoon, and the CHOG can be outflown by many planes.
Whatever solution is implemented, the CHOG must remain readily available or you will ruin the strategic flow of the game. Without the CHOG, there is no carrier-based tank busting capability, and the land bases will be invulnerable to carrier assault.
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Hooli, you're essentially correct in that accessment, but perhaps I can't agree with verbage of it being a "few" planes. In this case, we have an obvious standout. There are ridiculous arguments that state that perking one plane moves everybody else to another plane which results in that plane getting perked which moves them to the next plane which makes that get perked, ad infinitum until only the worst plane is unperked. What? If perking the -1C made it fall off the map and made other planes take it spot, wouldn't it just make more sense to see that the perk cost of the -1C was just set too high? People look at this as an on/off switch with no ability to strike a reasonable medium and I have no idea why. If they read a headline in the paper that the fed is leaning towards raising interest rates, do they automatically assume they're going to jack them up by 20% and that the economy will instantly fall apart? That's about what's going on here.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Yah know... I think the resistance to the perk idea is because it's so... new.
I bet by this same time next year the perk system, and the transaction of tradin' points fer rides becomes just... second nature.
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Originally posted by 54Ed:
All this hubbub about the Chog killing the game puzzles me. Who cares if lots of people are flying the Chog???
I seldom fly the CHOG, because I like other planes better. I've also never felt it was as dangerous as it's reputation. The guns are deadly, but no worse than the Typhoon, and the CHOG can be outflown by many planes.
Whatever solution is implemented, the CHOG must remain readily available or you will ruin the strategic flow of the game.
Without the CHOG, there is no carrier-based tank busting capability, and the land bases will be invulnerable to carrier assault.
54Ed,
Arrgh. The point (among the non-whiners who would like to see a CHog perk) isn't that the CHog is an invulnerable super-weapon, it's that there are so many of them it makes the game uninteresting.
Don't you think it's more interesting to face a wide variety of aircraft? Diversity is good. Diversity maintains interest.
Nobody cares if someone posts they took a C202 up last night and killed 5 CHogs in one sortie, or whatever. It can be shot down. I've shot down a lot of them.
But people are still flying a ridiculous # of sorties in it. Making the arena boring.
No matter how much people try to portray the CHog as an ordinary, mediocre plane, people just keep flying them and flying them.
ROFLMAO. Absence of a cannon-armed F4U would ruin the game? This is probably the most comical anti-CHog perk argument on the board.
The US still won World War II and they only had 200 CHogs for about 3 months of the war :-)
Land bases aren't invulnerable to carriers without the CHog. You can kill tanks with bombs and rocks..the D Hog and the Hellcat both carry 2x1000 bombs.
[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 01-10-2001).]
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Without the CHOG, there is no carrier-based tank busting capability, and the land bases will be invulnerable to carrier assault
You can kill flak-panzers and tanks even with a Seafire. It takes only one or two passes more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by 54Ed:
Whatever solution is implemented, the CHOG must remain readily available or you will ruin the strategic flow of the game. Without the CHOG, there is no carrier-based tank busting capability, and the land bases will be invulnerable to carrier assault.
Every other plane on the carrier is capable of killing an Osty or a tank. Ya just have to bring some bombs or rockets with ya...even the little ones the zeke carries will do the job just fine.
SOB
BTW...My own line of thinking on this has changed and it doesn't bother me in the least that the Chog is being perked. As Jigster pointed out, any Chog flyer should be able to make an easy transition into the Dhog...somehow this very basic fact passed completely over my head. Remember, .50 cals are your friend & damned fun to use (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 01-11-2001).]
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Hmmm...
I've read so many of Mayhem's posts I want to join a Militia. "Happy Birthday Tricia, I'm in the Michigan Militia..." - M. Fruvous
The 20% kills shouldn't bother anyone... its not like this is a plane restricted to a single country (as in WW2), that's what I find most misleading, although I agree with perking it. It was just said above my post, its because its being flown too often. Of that 20% of kills, what percentage was Chogs? That'd be another telling figure.
New user here, and the only two "honorable" fighter kills I've had A2A were Chogs. After getting blasted h2h by them, I finally paid attention to the material in the boards and websites, and Lo and behold, it's not that tough to kill. Heck, even when its out of ammo, and trying to outrun you by that thin margin of speed it has on a 109, you can pick the sucker off with the same type of ordanance he tried to tear you apart with. That's both poetic justice, and enough to keep me in the game.
"Ever since, I've been the Champ." - The Champ.
Jay.
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Originally posted by 54Ed:
Whatever solution is implemented, the CHOG must remain readily available or you will ruin the strategic flow of the game. Without the CHOG, there is no carrier-based tank busting capability, and the land bases will be invulnerable to carrier assault.
54ed,
First, you assume there is some strategic flow already in the game. I dissent. At best, we have some short scope tactics. No strategic goal whatsoever, that I can account of. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Second, if you get rid of your 20mm. armed cannon bird aboard the CV, you still have a 8" & 5" equipped "plane" and another 5" equipped. Are these powerful enough for tank busting? I would say so. And for hangar busting as well. Land bases invulnerable to carrier assault? I don't think so.
Now Pyro, pretty please, give us a landing craft with a loadout of panzers plus shoreline batteries. And allow the fleet to be anchored for bombardement. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Then we will see TG's parked (or at least the cruiser) outside shoreline guns range, while the CV's airforce tries to unable them.
Cheers,
Pepe
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That's the point Jay, 20% of all the kills in the arena are being made by C-Hogs. That's more than double the amount by any other plane. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But yeah, they are not that hard to deal with. I have a tougher time than most, since the Hog and 51 are most dangerous to my Jug, but it's nothing an alt advantage can't fix. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW, it's not hard to tell you are a fellow Canuck. <G>
"I sez pardon?" ------ "Weeeeeeel, I SNAP, I LOOOOOOSE it." "Smoker, heater, and a FLURY to the solar plexus."
For those of you who haven't heard it, it's a radio comedy bit that has been done up here for many years on the radio. Search napster for "The Champ" and you'll find some episodes.
Heheheh.
------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Originally posted by gatt:
You can kill flak-panzers and tanks even with a Seafire. It takes only one or two passes more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Of course, this is assuming that you don't get shot down on the first or second pass...
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Anyone worried about FlakPanzers needs to learn about rockets. They do wonders and 3 of the remaining CV aircraft carry them.
AKDejaVu
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Send one pizza to HTC:
Get 15 C-Hog flights!
eskimo
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Lephturn,
What I asked was, in a bad way, of the 20% of kills made by Chogs, what percentage were Chogs themselves? Like was half that 20% downed Chogs? More? less?
re- The Champ, we don't get him this far east, we have to wait for people to return home from AB with the CD and radio shows taped off. Makes for fun times, though, when we hit the (properly alcoholated) Bud Light. Certainly, so does AH.
"I faked him with a spagetti right... he ate it up like Tommy Lasorda..." - The Champ.
Jay.
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Jig.. I totally agree...
Perk the Field Gunners !!! heh