Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Kweassa on September 07, 2004, 05:42:49 AM
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They're all standard "F" aircraft, right?
Seafire F.MkIIc, Spitfire F.MkVc, Spitfire F.MkIX(c wing/e wing), Spitfire F.Mk.XIV(c wing/e wing)...??
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They were in AH 1. I don't believe any changes were made- with exception of the spit V. I'm not sure about the spit V in AHII with the +16 boost
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Is it a LF.Mk.Vc then?
Or, a normal F.Mk.Vc using just higher boost than AH1?
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It's a normal F Vc using 16 lbs boost.
The Spit I is the most off, now. It's using enough fuel to be running on 12 lbs boost (which they did on 100 octane fuel), the boost guage claims it's running on 12 lbs.
The performance is only correct for 9 lbs though.
In other words, it's about 15 - 20 mph too slow below FTH.
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The Spit V sure seems to be the new and improved. I prefer it to the IX right now by far, which when you think about it, doesn't make a lot of sense.
Can't think of too many real life Spit drivers who would have happily given up their IXs for Vs
Dan/Slack
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I jumped into the V the other day for unti-vulch work. This boosted spit V is definitly better than the tuned down IX especially with the new instabilities of the IX. Really feels powerfull when you yank it around, though the maximum speed is still low.
Bozon
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SpitV is like a drug now.. Fly it once and you'll never get out of it again..
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Soon you will all be assimilated.
Mwahaha!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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The Spit F IX doesnt show its stuff untill you get above 5k. A Merlin 61 Spit F IX wasnt much faster than a Spit V at sea level. Its better as you get higher, up to 30k. Its climberate is also better. As a below 5k dogfighter (Main Arena) the Spit V is almost as good and thats not really surprising. If you had a Merlin 66 Spit L.F. IX the difference would be more pronounced than it is at low level.
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Originally posted by Squire
The Spit F IX doesnt show its stuff untill you get above 5k. A Merlin 61 Spit F IX wasnt much faster than a Spit V at sea level. Its better as you get higher, up to 30k. Its climberate is also better. As a below 5k dogfighter (Main Arena) the Spit V is almost as good and thats not really surprising. If you had a Merlin 66 Spit L.F. IX the difference would be more pronounced than it is at low level.
Yeah well, all the LFIXE talk has gotten us nowhere :)
Guess we'll have to stick with the boosted Vc. Now if we can only get em to clip the wings too
Dan/Slack
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what about Seafire?
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Seafire F.IIc was simply a navalised Spitfire F.Vc - same engine, but slightly heavier. Only 372 built.
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We should be getting the 1943 and 1944 versions of the Spit 9 and Spit 14, respectively.
The ones we have now are under-powered, and have no reason for the ENY to be so low. There's just no excuse for the 14 to be perked, since it's so under-powered compared to the mainstay 14, which had (I believe) +25 boost.
And our F4U-4 shouldn't be perked at all. It has only slightly better performance than the P-51D (although it's a pain at low speed/low alt), and it doesn't even have cannons.
The solution? We should get an F4U-4C sometime in the future. It was the F4U-4, but with 4x20mm cannons. Oh, and it should definately be perked.
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F4U-4C did not see sevice in WWII.
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why they decided to model our spit XIV with the version they did to be perked is beyond me.
should have given it bubble hood.
(http://www.vintagefabrics.co.uk/images/nh799_02.jpg)
(http://www.vintagefabrics.co.uk/images/nh799.jpg)
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Originally posted by Furball
why they decided to model our spit XIV with the version they did to be perked is beyond me.
should have given it bubble hood.
(http://www.vintagefabrics.co.uk/images/nh799_02.jpg)
(http://www.vintagefabrics.co.uk/images/nh799.jpg)
The teardrop canopied birds didn't show until roughly March of 45. The mainstay 14s were the high backs starting with 610 and going from there.
That applies to the XVIs as well
Dan/Slack
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Nice pics Furball.
I'm trying to find a couple of clear pics that show the radiator exits with flaps open and "closed".
Anyone got any suitable?
Thanks
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Originally posted by Nashwan
Nice pics Furball.
I'm trying to find a couple of clear pics that show the radiator exits with flaps open and "closed".
Anyone got any suitable?
Thanks
From photos in the collection. Open and closed views close up of a Spit XIV radiator.
Hope the angle works ok
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1094602685_spitxivradopen.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1094602662_spitxivradclosed.jpg)
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According to this doc, there was little improvement for the XIV at 25 lbs boost.
http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/merlin66_18_25b.jpg
I think the version we have is plenty fast?
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Hello Squire: That document from 11 July 44 shows that +21 had been cleared but was not yet implemented at the operational level. This (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/no610orb.jpg) page from No 610's ORB shows that their Spit XIV's were modified to +21 about a week later. The improvement at +21 boost (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit14at21.jpg) amounted to about 6 to 8 mph at SL. +25 boost (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/merlin66_18_25.jpg) on the other hand yielded much stronger performance, but operational documentation of its use falls into the 109K 1.98 fuzzy area ;)
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Then, if the F4U-4C didn't see service in WWII, our F4U-4 shouldn't be perked.
Seriously, it out-performs the P-51D, but not enough to warrant a perk price.
And I think that the F4U-1C should have a default perk price of 5, since it's an F4U-1 with 4 20's (and a nicer cockpit).
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408mph at 4,000 feet with a +25 boost Mk XIV...
Now that's what I'm talking about!!!
Oh, and I like the Spitfire Mk III's superior performance with the Griffon III/IV @ 12lbs boost, compared to the Spitfire Mk IX's Merlin 66 @ 18lbs boost.
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Hmm, on further review, RAE Tech Note No. Eng. 316. shows the following for a Spit XIV at 3,000 ft': +18 - 372, +21 - 393, +25 - 410. :) Those higher boost speeds would have to be for a filled and polished aircraft ;)
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Fear not, I imagine that after HT fills in the PacWar planeset, and maybe the Russian early-war planeset, we'll get some new Spits.
I do agree we need a higher performance Spit for the 1945 MA.. the Spit 14 would do the job nicely I think were it not perked.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
The teardrop canopied birds didn't show until roughly March of 45. The mainstay 14s were the high backs starting with 610 and going from there.
That applies to the XVIs as well
Dan/Slack
we have the 3 x B.20 option on lgay's, when did they enter service? (i know it was late, im not being a smartarse, just out of curiousity)
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From photos in the collection. Open and closed views close up of a Spit XIV radiator.
Hope the angle works ok
Thanks Dan
The top one is close to perfect, because although it doesn't show the flaps closed, it's easy to see what they will look like closed.
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With regards to Spitfire LF.IX low level speeds the following compilation is interesting:
(http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/merlin66comp.jpg)
Its quite informative, and rather amusing, to see how what the Air Ministry considered "Normal Maximum Speed" compares against trials data. Reports posted in full at the Spitfire IX (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html) page. See here (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/merlin66_18_25b.jpg) and here (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/merlin66_18_25.jpg) for Air Ministry figures.
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I just did some calculations real quick on the Spitfire Mk Vc Merlin 45 (+16) vs Spitfire Mk IX Merlin 61 (+12).
I am not going to post the actual results because I am just "guesstimating" the engine outputs.
I have 1515hp at FTH for the Spit V at 13000 feet on (+16) boost.
For the Spit Mk IX Merlin 61 I used 1550 since 13000 feet is just below it's FTH.
If anyone has a Horsepower chart for both engines I will run some calculations for you guys.
Basically my calculations show that for 3 minutes at a time the Spit V has less drag and better performance than the Spit IX. The Spit IX though can maintain it's performance for 5 minutes instead of just 3.
The Spit V has alot less weight than the Spit IX but less drag with roughly the same Thrust to Weight. Their zoom climbs are probably very similar. In the turn fight the Spit V would win.
However the correct power output could reveal a completely different outcome.
Anyway if you are interested in knowing let me know.
Crumpp
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Originally posted by Furball
we have the 3 x B.20 option on lgay's, when did they enter service? (i know it was late, im not being a smartarse, just out of curiousity)
Stuff I have says the LA7s were in service in 1943. An interesting comment by Author Bill Gunston "By late 1943 the LA7 was probably the best all around dogfighter in service in the world."
Dan/Slack
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Stuff I have says the LA7s were in service in 1943. An interesting comment by Author Bill Gunston "By late 1943 the LA7 was probably the best all around dogfighter in service in the world."
Dan/Slack
The development of the La-7 (design bureau designation La-120) did not start until the autumn of '43, with production starting in the spring of '44 at plants in Moscow and Yaroslavl. Service introduction was in the late spring and early summer of '44. The prototype did not fly until Nov. '44.
Among the first units to receive the La-7 was the 176th Guards IAP.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
The development of the La-7 (design bureau designation La-120) did not start until the autumn of '43, with production starting in the spring of '44 at plants in Moscow and Yaroslavl. Service introduction was in the late spring and early summer of '44. The prototype did not fly until Nov. '44.
Among the first units to receive the La-7 was the 176th Guards IAP.
Thanks Milo.
Dan/Slack
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i was talking specifically about the 3 cannon armed version with the 3 x B.20's instead of the ShVaks?
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I have a reference to the La7 and its' gun armament (Green and Swanborough 1995 pp328 para 1):
The intended armament comprised three 20-mm Berezina B-20 cannon, but while this armament was installed in aircraft built at Yaroslavl, those built at Moscow reverted to the twin ShVAK cannon of the La-5FN.
This was about the middle of 1944.
I think the reference is referring to the B-20 being less common than the ShVAK.
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yup iirc something like 364 were built with the b.20's.
My point was, i think they entered service very late in the war, and its an option in AH....
SOOOoooooooooooooooo..... we should have the option for the bubble hood on the XIV! :D