Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mayhem on January 07, 2001, 11:08:00 AM
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You know the crying about the f4u1c, the numbers, the suicide dweebs, the n1k2-j. really has me ticketed off. I think the Perk points was the stupidest idea yet. persally i think if you really wanted to use a perk points to thier full pontential you should have to spend them on just about every thing. your plane, your pilot, your ammo, your ordanance, your fuel, and your repairs. this would make serviving a serios issue in the game. if your pilot dies you have to buy a new one and a new plane. if he is captures you have to buy him out of captiviaty if he is wounded his hospital bill. If he bails and gets home safely then all you have to do is buy a new plane. If you ditch then part of the plane is recoverable. if you land it even if its damaged and all shot up you only have to pay for minor repairs.
start every one with 100 points so they perty much can fly any plane they want in the game fully loaded first time around.
Of corse you would have to leave some plane as cheap or free like say a m16 or a jug or a spit or a yak. some common cheap underused craft mabey even a vehicle.
they way the points system is set up now it favors the dorks that have no life play 16 hours a day 7 days a week and play AH like they do Quake. Probably the same people that crie about planes like the f4u1c and the n1k2-j. they care more about gameplay and points then they do about history and reality. If this is the way AH is going I hope they tell me soon before I waste another 30 bucks on the game. I can play WBs and AW for less.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Forgive the spelling been up late again and Iam to dam lazy to correct it.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Mayhem wrote:
"Probably the same people that crie about planes like the f4u1c and the n1k2-j. they care more about gameplay and points then they do about history and reality."
Yeah, people who find it a bit odd that an aircraft that only had a production run of 200 and fought for three months at the end of the war has 20% of the kills in the arena "care more about gameplay and points than they do about history and reality."
Are there a lot of idiots in AH? Sure.
Do a lot of these idiots whine about the CHog? Sure.
Are all people in favor of perking the CHog whining idiots? NO.
As I've stated many times, we can't have a rational debate over whether perking the Chog makes for a better game because (understandably, because of the volume and persistence and usual stupidity of whining) there has grown to be a dogmatic group of "anti-whiners" who simply can't stand to see ANY change to AH that actually fixes something that anyone ever whined about, even if it makes sense.
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n1k2-j had 400 that hit service. it was about the best the japanese had to offer. Point is again I like them both and I like to fly them. I feel I shouldn't have to fly in a spitfire or zeke 16 hours a day 7 days a week to get to fly a f4u1c or n1k2-j the last 2 days of camp. Ide rather just say screw it pay less and fly AW or WBs. why should I be treated less becuase i fly less I pay the same Golly-gee amount of money as every one else does, more money if the 19 dollar newbi plan was put into effect. the flight models are already wacked on the faster planes like the f4u p51 p47 and fw190a8. Every one wants to kill or perk there least favorite ride. Instead of it being a rare chog or n1k2-j crybaby now its to the point of perking (restricting) or outrite limiting and or abolishing the air craft. The way I look at it screw em I pay as much money as them I have as much right to fly what I want to. Otherwise screw it I'll be leaving with the mass exodus due to costomer mistreatment over an overpriced beta game that isn't even finished yet and happens to be an Improved clone of a rip off game. There have been times I've played the 30 bucks a month and only gotten to play about 4 hours that entire month. there was even a month a never did play. I support and pay as much as every one else does. personally Iam starting to wish Ide never gotten into this and stayed in war birds or Air warrior. this is excactly what keeps Aces high in 4th place behind fighter ace, war birds and air warrior. and with the new perk system your going to see alot more people leave specially with the higher system requirments and loss of Frame rates and other bugs such as controll freezes computer lock ups disconects even with a fresh install.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-07-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-07-2001).]
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Take an MMORPG as an example, time put into the game is the ultimate factor, the less time you have the less advanced your character will be. Skill means little in games like those, but you don't see people whining, "I pay the same as the highest level guy on the server, but I don't have the time that he does to sit infront of the computer scree, so I should automatically be the same level as he."
In AH however, being good at the game can overcome the time you can't put into playing AH, if you get in really good sorties for the time you play you'll be on the easy road to perk planes.
I think the problem here is that you just need to get better at AH Mayhem.
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Take an MMORPG as an example, time put into the game is the ultimate factor, the less time you have the less advanced your character will be. Skill means little in games like those, but you don't see people whining, "I pay the same as the highest level guy on the server, but I don't have the time that he does to sit infront of the computer scree, so I should automatically be the same level as he."
In AH however, being good at the game can overcome the time you can't put into playing AH, if you get in really good sorties for the time you play you'll be on the easy road to perk planes.
I think the problem here is that you just need to get better at AH Mayhem.
No such problem specially when you get nearly as many points for a dead mission as you do for one you land. compair the guy that puts in 16 hours a month of game play compaired to someone that puts in 100. we both pay the same price. that same issue keeps me out of Ultima online and everquest. I love RPGs but Ide rather play Final fantasy alone then pay a monthly fee for everquest play for a year just to e outclassed by a newbi that played his first month straight. this is a flight sim not an RPG Iam putting my money into it and now the only thing I get in return is a limited plane set becuase I don't spend every waking hour playing the game. like I said I even payed for months eithe ronly got to play a few hours or didn't get time to play at all. Ive never been a points player any way. I don't play for skill I don't play for points I play for fun. Ive gotten perty good but to me thats only second to having fun. now they want to limit my fun so in return I'll have no choice but to limit my playing time (to zero online) and the funding I provide to the game.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Hmm, why Mayhem talks about N1K2 or C hog being hard to fly because of perk points?
If (and hopefully) those two gets perked, it won't need alot perk points to fly those.. so don't be afraid of losing your ride.
Probably LW has more reason to be afraid....
(well.. germans did almost everything in small numbers but few, unlike allied nations)
Hehe.. faster planes.. hehe.. you listed FW190A8... hehe..
Why do you pay then? could think you could do H2H as well if you don't fly more than 4 hours (and woah, no perk points to worry!)
I don't like of this and that in AH, but I won't get that ........ well.. low.
(hmm.. I wonder why that message was edited so many times)
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I'm not sure I get your logic regarding how perk points favour those people who fly 16 hours a day. The percentage of time spent building up perk points to the time spent in yer perked plane would be equall, no?
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Personably Mayhem. Without insulting you because this is not my intent. Your requests about perk points are unrealistic at best.
What would a pilot who has run out of points do? What would newbie pilots who are not as good as some of the more experienced pilots do? You really have to ask yourself these questions first before putting a post like that together.
Yes your post was very imaginative.
Yes your post was very creative and obviously you took a lot of time to consider it.
But yes it was VERY controversial.
And No you can't expect people to share your views.
You also have to understand that even people who you say are dweebs, I say are dweebs or anyone else for that matter says are dweebs are just out to have fun the same as us.
Suicidal dweebs bug the heck outa me. But at the end of the day they are paying customers to. We all have bad days when things go wrong and we have to vent. That is essential what a community BBS is for.
I TOTALLY understand what you are saying. But IMO aces high is not like quake and never will be. It is too well controlled to be. Yes there is dweebers flying the Niki. It bugs me to. But I always put it down to the fact that they are better pilots then me and move on.
Keep your chin up bro (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ok I just gotta ask: Is this the same Nath as before? This one sounds a hell of a lot more mature and respectable.
WTG Nath!
Yeager
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Mayhem, you must understand that these simulations or games are in effect a mirror of the real world. In real life you must have skill and dedication in order to succeed, in jobs etc, or do you just go through life trying to "play for fun?" The only reason I play these games is for the challenge and the thrill I get out of defeating another human being in virtual combat, I play for the challenge and I enjoy getting sweaty palms when I find myself flying against someone who has a clue about ACM and A2A combat.
If I didn't have the time to built up perk points I wouldn't mind, cuz I would still be kikking bellybutton in my trusty A8 or 109.
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Originally posted by Betown:
Personably Mayhem. Without insulting you because this is not my intent. Your requests about perk points are unrealistic at best.
What would a pilot who has run out of points do? What would newbie pilots who are not as good as some of the more experienced pilots do? You really have to ask yourself these questions first before putting a post like that together.
Yes your post was very imaginative.
Yes your post was very creative and obviously you took a lot of time to consider it.
But yes it was VERY controversial.
And No you can't expect people to share your views.
You also have to understand that even people who you say are dweebs, I say are dweebs or anyone else for that matter says are dweebs are just out to have fun the same as us.
Suicidal dweebs bug the heck outa me. But at the end of the day they are paying customers to. We all have bad days when things go wrong and we have to vent. That is essential what a community BBS is for.
I TOTALLY understand what you are saying. But IMO aces high is not like quake and never will be. It is too well controlled to be. Yes there is dweebers flying the Niki. It bugs me to. But I always put it down to the fact that they are better pilots then me and move on.
Keep your chin up bro (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Actually I thought I made the point have having certian planes and ground vehicles (a few very few) that are free. but yes you point is taken and I see a problem with it but I see a problem in the entire perk points set up. Your still getting at least 75% of your mission points if you die. Your not loosing anyhting if you die and didn't do anything in the first place. You add this into the lopsided 3 way war. and it purely leans towards time playing rather then skill. hell my kill ratio (bout the only thing close to points I care about) went to crap with the 1.05 update mostly due to bugs. It was perty much an Idea nothing more but the perk points the way it stand I'll either sped all my time in the training arena or I'll end up droping my HTC acount and play HTH while getting a new WBs or AW account. Theres just way to many flaws and problems with the perk points the way they stand. least my idea of keeping one ugly cheap plane free of initial cost would make it more realistic and make you want to survive intact as much as posible. i was thinking of pricing something like this
1 point every 100 rounds of ammo per and 100lbs of bomb
Bomber ammo free
2 points every 100 rounds of cannon and per rocket.
1 point for every gun
2 points for every system to repair (except gun)
3 points for wounded pilot hospitol bill
4 points for plane recovery (ditch)
8 points for new plane (except freebe)
12 points for new plane with pilot
30 cal ammo free
free plane be a p-40 a6m2 (rahter then a A6m5) spit mk1 val kate betty ju87 or someother early war fighter and bomber.
mabey make some of the later area planes a little more expensive. but within the cost that a few good landed misssions and you could afford it) and the abilaty to sell your ride back for the upgrade.
just an idea but I think its better then having to play for 30 hours to get your perk plane that you used to fly normally.
thanks for not bashing or flaming me I respect your post and glad to see another view that wans't a flame.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Mayhem, you must understand that these simulations or games are in effect a mirror of the real world. In real life you must have skill and dedication in order to succeed, in jobs etc, or do you just go through life trying to "play for fun?" The only reason I play these games is for the challenge and the thrill I get out of defeating another human being in virtual combat, I play for the challenge and I enjoy getting sweaty palms when I find myself flying against someone who has a clue about ACM and A2A combat.
If I didn't have the time to built up perk points I wouldn't mind, cuz I would still be kikking bellybutton in my trusty A8 or 109.
Dedication? to a game? No I feel your wrong here i proved my dedication when I pay 30 bucks a month. even when I didn't play I payed my 30 bucks. when I played 4 hours I payed my 30 bucks. Some people don't live at home with mommy and daddy. some people have more then a part time job. soem peopl ehave famalies and full time jobs to worry about and if they put any game above those then they need to seek profesional help. remember the article about a guy on welfare playing Ultima Online. To me that was sick and that was my tax dollors being missused. I really don't want to slap down the people that spend 100 hours a month playing but those of us with the time constraints deserve equal treatment we pay the same price mabey even more.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Then why are you here, Mayhem? If you don't dedicate yourself to any game you will never truly enjoy yourself, you'll constantly be losing and I don't see how that is fun.
Face it, the game isn't going to change just because some dude doesn't have what it takes or doesn't want to put time into the game that other people are willing to do. If you have a 'life' then go live it and play AH or don't, deal with it, adapt, that's what humans do. If you don't have the time to build up your points then the MA isn't the thing for you(unless of course you get better and make your time count), many people left when the FM changed (including myself for a short time), but the perk system will no doubt attract more people than those who left.
So, deal with it or leave, its not going to change just because someone "doesn't have the time to play, but others do" That's just ridiculous.
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Nath_____
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
"It felt as if an angel was pushing..."
-Reponse of Gen. Adolf Galland after flying the fourth prototype Me 262 in May 1943.
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 01-07-2001).]
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Damn.. this perk thing is really suckin up airtime.. and arena time.
Tell me.. why do you fly?? To accure points? to pump yer score card? (NO INSULT INTENDED HERE!!!!) Do you fly AH solely to compete with other folks you may never ever even see in the adversary role on the score page??
Or are you into teamwork; acm; defense; offence; flyin to stay alive; flyin to achieve a goal; flyin fer yer countrys objectives; flyin for ANY OTHER REASON than score card issues or perk point issues?
Answer that question honestly TO YOUR SELF (rest of us ain't interested; regardless of the answer); then be honest on these boards and in your cockpit. Fly for whatever reasons yah want.. but be honest about it.
And note that the developer has provided for EITHER MINDSET. You don't like 'perk' stuff? Just ignore it. You don't like flyin missions? Just ignore 'em. You wanna go fly fer scores; go right ahead. You wanna fly strat and use teamwork?? Fine; we got tools fer that too.
Something here for everybody.. just do yer thing. But fer crissakes folks; please stop raining on the parade of progress in the sim; ok? Everybody will find their niche.. whatever they may like, there's some of that, whatever it might be, in here already.
Hang
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First off I think Iam perty good. secondly i enjoy a good adrenaline rush dogfight or a mission with my friends like Dingy kbman jigster crash and all other guys I typically fly with. second I wount be here if the perk points interfears with my fun. and last I have a life I don't live for this game and Iam a consumer who pays just as much as you or anyone else on this game. hell I stated playing WWII mass multiplayer flight sims back in the early 90's when your CPID was just a serries of numbers. before there was rip off called War birds. back when people like Dok Gonzo where burning themselfs out Hell I think Scav was still alive when I started. you want to talk about dedication see if you can find any of the old geni message boards or the AOL boards for AW DOS and AW4W. If anything you will see what a real community was. What got me into them was my love for WWII aviation. My grandfather flew p47s my cousins grandfather flew stangs. ever since I was a kidd I loved WWII history specially when it came to fighters. I play this game for enjoyment. Iam not about to dedicate my life to it like some cult fanatic. I play it to enjoy it.
(and no I never flew in the service outside of uh-60 familurization I had to be the black sheep of the family and go army infantry)
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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LOL Mayhem.. I know you've been around.
<S!>
Lets all go fly; kill the red ones; drink the cold ones and chase the warm ones. And enjoy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
Hang
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Now he's on about the community.
Let me make something clear:
The perk system does not restrict your ability to have a good adrenline rush dogfight or a mission with your friends.
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Damn.. this perk thing is really suckin up airtime.. and arena time.
Tell me.. why do you fly?? To accure points? to pump yer score card? (NO INSULT INTENDED HERE!!!!) Do you fly AH solely to compete with other folks you may never ever even see in the adversary role on the score page??
Or are you into teamwork; acm; defense; offence; flyin to stay alive; flyin to achieve a goal; flyin fer yer countrys objectives; flyin for ANY OTHER REASON than score card issues or perk point issues?
Answer that question honestly TO YOUR SELF (rest of us ain't interested; regardless of the answer); then be honest on these boards and in your cockpit. Fly for whatever reasons yah want.. but be honest about it.
And note that the developer has provided for EITHER MINDSET. You don't like 'perk' stuff? Just ignore it. You don't like flyin missions? Just ignore 'em. You wanna go fly fer scores; go right ahead. You wanna fly strat and use teamwork?? Fine; we got tools fer that too.
Something here for everybody.. just do yer thing. But fer crissakes folks; please stop raining on the parade of progress in the sim; ok? Everybody will find their niche.. whatever they may like, there's some of that, whatever it might be, in here already.
Hang
hang-time my problem is when I get limited as to what I can do and what i can do it in due to some perk point system. So what if I don't play 80 hours a week. I pay 30 bucks just like every one else. Iam sure HTC is more worried about the money I pay then the time I play. Iam pointing out the new system is promoting people to switch to the side that have the most numbers and or land. It Creates situations when your team mates let you die so they can swoop down and get the kill on you're killer once he depletes his E rather then trying to save you. It has people aimless in search of the almighty perk point that they forget about team play and having fun. It leaves people aiming for a reset. Add that into the fact that some of my favorite rides may become perked? this is a joke and bad one at that.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-07-2001).]
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Now he's on about the community.
Let me make something clear:
The perk system does not restrict your ability to have a good adrenline rush dogfight or a mission with your friends.
No it just meens I can't fly this plane or that plane becuase every one cried about it and it got perked. it means things will get less fun becuase every one is looking out for the points. It means My fun is limited becuase I don't spend every waking hour playing a game where I run suicide dweeb missions (witch give you dam near full points) so i can get my favorite ride back the last 2 days of camp before scores are reset.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Do you even know how many perk points the 1C will cost? no. For all we know it could be 50 pp, which is nothing. If you're so against running suicidal missions then once you get the 1C hopefully you won't die in it, then you having nothing to worry about.
Just FYI, I guess you missed Pyro's point for perking the 1C. It's being perked because too many people are flying it, not because people have been whining about it for the past 12314143 months, but because its unbalancing the perk system.
You are missing another point, perk points never get reset.
Ya need 'ta get all the info straight before talkin', bud. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 01-07-2001).]
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50 points is about 25 hours of play if your really trying to survive. Once you made points a major issue that effected every one. you turned the entire MA into dweebville. I've heard way to many people complain about it, people that I know and repsect. some of them have left becuase of 1.05 few more of them leave and I wount have reason to stay around any more points or no points. If there going to do this they should at least make two areana's one with the perk system one without (the training areana doesn't count) and see witch system is better. look at all the people having problems with the numbers issue (rooks mostly) the only responce I've seen is defect. great one less from the outnumbered one more to the overnumbered. It's not just the planes it's the entire behavior change in the areana. people deffect to the bigger side so the vulch the poor country outnumbered. they let their wingies get killed so the can nail the bandit after he depleates his E. It promotes an "every man for himself" atitude. we've already seen this in rookland. You also have the mass hoards that make suicide attacks on you (messing up the base ack didn't help) mix that in with arguments over using the carriers for defence or offence. the entire mentality in the game has changed all due to perk points. Its like a quake 3 frag fest.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-07-2001).]
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Pyro mentioned that the price for flying an F4U-1C might be as low as 1 point.
That means, to me, that I have flown missions in the Zero that would allow me to fly the F4U-1C for 8 losses in it. I say 8 losses because if you you land it you don't lose it.
Now, I'll never fly an F4U-1C because I don't like it. When I feel curious about how the F4U handles I take an F4U-1D.
I'll save my perk points for the Spitfire F.MkXIV and Meteor F.MkIII, thank you very much.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Woe is you! It sounds like you're trying to convince yourself to leave, which if you think about it should be reason enough. But if that's not what you're trying to do, here's a novel approach: How about actually looking at the facts or asking for clarification rather than stating a bunch of hyperbole as fact?
You state things like:
-You'd have to fly 16 hours a day in a Zero to get a few sorties at the end of a tour in a F4U-1C or N1K.
Where do come up with this? Why not just ask what the cost of the F4U-1C will be and see what that means to you instead of making melodramatic proclamations and lumping in an unaffected plane for good measure? Why not ask if perk points are reset at the end of a tour instead of assuming so?
-This is for dorks who have no life and play 16 hours a day 7 days a week.
That's funny because I looked your points up and you're in the top 10%. But regardless of how much you fly, the % of time that you get in perks doesn't change. And if it does take an unreasonable amount of time for a low-time flyer to accumulate perks, wouldn't that be pretty easy to adjust by just awarding a fixed number of points to everybody at the beginning of a tour or through a dozen different means?
-1.05 is causing a mass exodus.
Yeah, we're having such a mass exodus that we had to order a new server. Or do you mean that the mass exodus will start once people see that you left and all start to pine away?
The term "whine" is an overused cliche around here, but this is textbook. We have the victimization aspect, lack of factual information and not much interest in obtaining it, standard whine terms like dweeb and quake, insults, hyperbole, the threat to quit, superiority of other games, and of course the coming downfall of the game.
Constructive criticism is great for the game. The worst thing for the game is true whining. It's counterproductive and detracts from people enjoying the game and community. Maybe you're having a bad day, I don't know. If that's not the case, then it seems that it would be in everybody's interest, especially your own, for you not to continue with AH.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Originally posted by Pyro:
Why not ask if perk points are reset at the end of a tour instead of assuming so?
Yeah, we're having such a mass exodus that we had to order a new server.
The term "whine" is an overused cliche around here, but this is textbook
If that's not the case, then it seems that it would be in everybody's interest, especially your own, for you not to continue with AH.
I wonder if Perk points will get reset at the end of a tour? I think they probably will.
Congrats on the expanded player base as of 1.05 to need a new server. Maybe that server could have an RPS after 1.06 or 1.07 now that HTC is focusing on making new planes.
Also, Kudos for telling Mayhem that he is a whiner.
X2
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Originally posted by Mayhem:
50 points is about 25 hours of play if your really trying to survive.
If it's taking you 25 hours to earn 50 perk points while trying to survive, you've got bigger problems than the so-called "every man for himself" attitude in AH.
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
If it's taking you 25 hours to earn 50 perk points while trying to survive, you've got bigger problems than the so-called "every man for himself" attitude in AH.
-- Todd/DMF
I must agree with you DMF, I've only flown 9 hours, 54 minutes and 56 seconds and have 122.95 perk points(only in the fighter category as that's the only one I've flown). I'm ranked 25th in the fighter rankings with just under 10 hours of flight time so far. I dunno if that's good, but assuming I'm reading this properly from the score page.. Mayhem has 43 hours, 53minutes and 27 seconds flight time this tour and he is ranked 250th in the fighter category. Does ranking in a category have any relation to how many perk points you may or may not have?
Also, I'm curious if we'll be allowed to "give away" our perk points to fellow squad mates?
-SW
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whoooooaaaaaaaaa pyro, insulting yer customers is not her way to go,,,check yer 6 m8,
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Originally posted by Pyro:
Woe is you! It sounds like you're trying to convince yourself to leave, which if you think about it should be reason enough. But if that's not what you're trying to do, here's a novel approach: How about actually looking at the facts or asking for clarification rather than stating a bunch of hyperbole as fact?
You state things like:
-You'd have to fly 16 hours a day in a Zero to get a few sorties at the end of a tour in a F4U-1C or N1K.
Where do come up with this? Why not just ask what the cost of the F4U-1C will be and see what that means to you instead of making melodramatic proclamations and lumping in an unaffected plane for good measure? Why not ask if perk points are reset at the end of a tour instead of assuming so?
-This is for dorks who have no life and play 16 hours a day 7 days a week.
That's funny because I looked your points up and you're in the top 10%. But regardless of how much you fly, the % of time that you get in perks doesn't change. And if it does take an unreasonable amount of time for a low-time flyer to accumulate perks, wouldn't that be pretty easy to adjust by just awarding a fixed number of points to everybody at the beginning of a tour or through a dozen different means?
-1.05 is causing a mass exodus.
Yeah, we're having such a mass exodus that we had to order a new server. Or do you mean that the mass exodus will start once people see that you left and all start to pine away?
The term "whine" is an overused cliche around here, but this is textbook. We have the victimization aspect, lack of factual information and not much interest in obtaining it, standard whine terms like dweeb and quake, insults, hyperbole, the threat to quit, superiority of other games, and of course the coming downfall of the game.
Constructive criticism is great for the game. The worst thing for the game is true whining. It's counterproductive and detracts from people enjoying the game and community. Maybe you're having a bad day, I don't know. If that's not the case, then it seems that it would be in everybody's interest, especially your own, for you not to continue with AH.
Pyro,
For once why don't you explain to me why Iam wrong. You've never done that not in an email complaint and not here. Why iam I wrong? How much will perk planes cost? Will you have a non-perked areana as well as a perked areana? What do you want to accomplish with the perk points sytem? What are your goals with your Aces High product? What do you intend to do if you are wrong and perk points become counter productive?
I went off on a rant but my concearns are genuine. Some of what I said was a hit below the belt. I typically call it the way I see it and I don't water it down. Iam sorry to any one I insulted with the "no life dweeb" comments but I feel the points system will lean towards favoring those people that put massive hours into playing rather then those people that play casually. IF iam wrong tell me and explain to me why Iam wrong.
Your right I was upset. No Iam not trying concvince myself to quit. Iam not try to get others to quit. If I was I would flat out say it. If i wanted to attack bash or hurt AH I would do it in the arena in the other message boards including this one and in e-mails to potential customers. The only thing Ive done its voice my opinions here. Ive had more post here in the last 3 days then I have in the last (lost count of how many)months Ive been playing. Up till now Ive kept my mouth shut becuase ive been rather happy with AH till now.
The perk points system scares the hell out of me Pyro I think It will hurt the game. I think Perk points Where a good Idea for a scenerio or for a special areana. But in the MA I think its going to be disaster If Iam wrong I'll write you and post here an apalogy. If Iam wright I wount be here and You will be spending to much time trying to fix things to even care about little ole me saying "I told you so".
I don't think Ive ever said such and such game was better. And Ive never called AH inferior. I've only pointed out the compatition is cheaper and has no limitations to my knowledge based on time spent playing or points. IF AH is going to become the "God" of mass multi player WWII flight simms it has to be best and stay the best. As a consumer I don't mind paying a little more for a superior product. but if that product becomes inferior then as a consumer I will put my money in the better product. No game is as good as AH as of yet. the closest would be Warbirds then Air warrior and lastly microsnots fighter ace in my opinion. But IF IEN ever pulls Warbirds III out there arse and the ratpack can get wwII online out of vaporware Iam betting they can give you a hell of a run for your money unless they drop the ball and make sacrafices for the sake of gameplay. In my opinion I think If HTC works really hard pumps out more Aircraft per update and makes adjustments where needed It will even be able to kick the snot out of the newcomers.
But instead of bashing me and aking me to leave AH why don't you explain why Iam wrong. Why don't you tell me how much perk planes will coast and wiether points will be wipped out at the end of a camp or not. I can be rather thick skulled at times so please explain to me why Iam wrong and my fears are misplaced. If Iam wrong I'll admit it If Iam wrong I'll even say "Sorry I was a bonehead, I should have had more faith in HTC".
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Well first ive spent more time in this camp then any other. secondly Ive been quilty of leaving AH on and inactive or walk off with a bomber in auto pilot (fell asleep to boot) so 43 really isn't an acurate show of how long IVe been actively on. my current rank is 220
I have ....
171.56 points fighter
22.36 points bomber
0.59 points vehicle/boat
I wount even get into goons.
I don't think Iam even close to the top 10% Ide be lucky if I was in the top 25% Iam oly a slightly better then avredge player not near the likes of guys in the AK squad or NH or any of the other big squads. I also haven't been playing for points. Ive been playing for fun or for team play but never for points.
I mean mabey its just me. but Ive been flying rooks we've been outnumbered and on the defensive. Ive had to many fellow country men do nothing and watch me die so the can zoom and kill the enemy after he's depleated his E. Ive blown all my E trying to save my fellow countrymen just to have them use the opertunaty to climb out and wait for the nmy to blow his on killing me. Its almost like the hole idea of flying as a country went out the window and every on eis more worried about points then anything else. Ive had guys suicide me and brag about points. Ive watched people cry about putting the carrier fleet on the offense when are port is under attack and the closest base is 10 minutes away all for the sake of points and what they want not whats best for the team. Ive flown to many gooney missions where people expect the gooney to magically apear and take the base through oposition, these same people refuse to help the goon for the sake of points they get more vulching then hitting ack or flack or nmy already up. they only reason I have 171 points is Ive spent to much time flying lately. You add that into all the people that cry about X-plane so it gets perked or x-plane is to popular so it gets perked. or becuase the perk points spread left the plane so that it had to be perked to save the perk system. How many more planes are going to get perked that we are used to flying free. how many people feel the same as me (I've already recieved email from a few). How about asking the customers before trying something like this one them or experimenting with it in another areana first. what the hell ever happened to beta testing an update?
I raise these issues and instead of getting a "your wrong heres why" i get crap about dedicating myself to game. then Pyro comes out calls me whiner and asks me to leave AH rather then tell me Iam wrong and why iam wrong. Hell when I do make sugestions or constructive critisism I get the excact same thing. Its not like Iam hounding anyone in the MA or online playing. Instead of attacking me why don't you just explain to me why iam wrong and why the games comunity wount degrade to the levels of battlenet or quake. Tell my how many points a perk plane is going to cost and how long it will take the advredge player to gain that many points.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Hiyas Mayhem =o)
None of this is any of my business, and HTC can dismiss me like a bad case of gas, but Mayhem has a point.
Consider the wisdom of Blue Baron, Hitech, and let the players make the game. The more success indicators you add, the more incentive for some to game the game. Even a points system can be counter productive, albeit arguably necessary.
grizzly
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WTG Pyro, glad to see you folks are seeing increased customers for all your hard work.
I think the Perk System is working out great. When there are a few choice perk planes available, things should really get interesting. This is one of the best ideas to hit the online flight-sim community in a long time IMHO.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Originally posted by Grizzly:
Hiyas Mayhem =o)
Consider the wisdom of Blue Baron, Hitech, and let the players make the game. The more success indicators you add, the more incentive for some to game the game. Even a points system can be counter productive, albeit arguably necessary.
grizzly
Can we have that little pincushion doll with the pins in it back in the tower? You know, the blue one?
I used that thing all the time.
X2
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Mayhem
Why do you think that the designers have time to reassess their vision with every windbag post and email they get pointing out how thats not how they should design the game? What entitles you or any of us to a justification and defence of every feature that they put in the game?
You imply that its just this one point. For you maybe. But lots of people here would be tying up these guys time with 60 page whines about thier ONE thing that they need justified and explained.
Even if your rant was worthwhile how can you expect more then just some space in Pyros cranium so maybe when he makes a decision down the line your point might perk to the top at 2 AM.
I think your complaint is silly and I think that the demanding way you present it is silly. I sort of blurred over most of it. Did you present an alternative way to bring more powerful and unbalancing planes into the MA. I must have missed it in the insults crying and verbage.
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"...whoooooaaaaaaaaa pyro, insulting yer customers is not her way to go,,,check yer 6 m8..."
Telling a customer to back up his "whining" with facts is not insulting him in my books. He repudiated mayhems "facts", then suggested if he was so unhappy to not use the product anymore. So?
I'm surprised HTC don't defend themselves from this garbage more often...but then I'd guess they would be on this BBS all day! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
bowser
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Well we do agree that it would be bad if AH became like it is over on B-Net or the Quake servers but I'm not sure we're necessarily talking about the same thing. The problem I see there is the problem I want to avoid here. While most people are there to play and have fun, there are plenty of people who are so devoid of any social conscience in the faceless anonymity of the internet that their whole kick is to try to incite, offend, and bar other players from enjoying themselves.
We don't get a whole lot of that, but I do think we get parts of that, albeit often on an unintentional level. AH is not meant to be played in a vacuum, it requires interaction with other players. That interaction is supposed to be a positive but often it is a negative. When somebody is unhappy with us or the game, they usually want other people to be unhappy with them. I've heard from a number of people who've left the game or not subscribed because of the atmosphere and I'm sure there are many more who I don't hear from for every one that I do. That's why you don't see us begging people to stay or come back if we can't please them and they can't accept our reasons or just aren't interested in them. We'd rather have the other people back or at least not add to that group. We know we can't please everybody, but we do work hard to try to please most.
I'm not trying to target you or slap a label on you, but you should know how we see things too. In regards to the perk system, I can't tell you all the specifics because they're not known yet, but there's certainly been a lot of discussion on the pros and cons for most of last year. How much will a perk plane cost? It depends on the plane, the rate at which points are accumulated, and how often people want to see them be available. The system is flexible and can accomplish a lot of good things for the gameplay. How it's used will be tailored to what people like and don't it. If we can't make it work, then we do something else. People like to predict at the extreme ends even though things usually fall in the middle. As amazing as it is, we're not out to try and ruin the game we've worked so hard to create.
BTW, you really were in the top 10% when I checked you. Also, perk points don't reset with the tour. And the perk value I was talking about for the F4U-1C was like a point or two. It doesn't matter to me which plane is the top killer, but a little semblance of balance among planes would be nice to most people.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Personally, I think the Perk is going to suck prettythang.
PC
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It doesn't matter to me which plane is the top killer, but a little semblance of balance among planes would be nice to most people.
This is what i've been trying to say all along !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RWY OUT !!!!
>
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Thank you Pyro
Alot of my ranting comes from watching the Air warrior comunity degrade from alot of high quality gamers Down to a bunch of cussin dweebs. Don't get me wrong theres still alot of good people there but there the minority and the elite of Air warrior, most of the best of air warrior and warbirds are here now.
Ive also seen the every one for himself attatude over at Warbirds, you add that into the snobish eletist (I can afford warbirds the masses can't) behavoir and it bacame unfun to play for the few hours a month you could afford to.
personally I wish perk points would either be embraced whole hardidly and promote team and group play or it fails misirably and every one hates it. The worse that can possibly happen is a 50/50 split then no matter what you do you piss off alot of people.
If I can fly a single mission and get enough perk points to fly my favorite rides I wount feel as bad.
As I said again most of ranting has been aimed at what Ive seen on Air warrior and warbirds and what ive seen in the AH MA since 105 came out. I think 105 is a great update and you have been hella fast at fixing bugs in it which suprised me. people seem to be getting more used to it now and hopefull things will be back to normal (probably all due to the shock of this massive of an update and all the new toys to play with).
If it keeps all the planes available to adverage user then great. If it promotes team play and group play then awsome. If it promotes the areana to lay some smack down on the counterproductive cussing point mongering "every man for himself" "I don't car" dweebs that aren't getting with the program then this is a plus to. I guess the only thing we can do now is wait and see what happens and how things turn out. BUT I swear! IF some dweeb brags about his points again and leave his countrymen to die and the quake heads take over Iam gunna steal you;re sheep give it to the night hawks and return the abused thing back to you right after I defile that little model plane on you're monitor next to the picture of your favorite ewe! <J>. (Actually I'll just leave WWII Mass Mutli-player flights simms and wait for some one Like AH, WB, AW, and WWIIOL to fix thiers before returning)
Iam sorry for the rants but you know where Iam coming from. I hope Iam absolutely wrong or you can fix it fast if Iam right. I like AH and I don't want to end up like EA's Air warrior or iEN's warbirds. Most of the people here in this game are the creme of the crop. people that give a dam about their comunity and rejected the other games for the same things I did, Reality Community and funn without foul mouthed dorks.
Again Thank you for your response and sorry for the rant.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-08-2001).]
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RPS for me...wid perk points to buy the magical, but hardly used A/C (Ta152 stuff etc)
That way we might get early war types...
-tronski-
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No harm, no foul. I was there in the Genie days and could be much nastier than I would ever tolerate so I see it from both sides of the fence. The only reason I'm in this job now is because of karma. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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i think perk system is a great idea
original, and makes balance, as well as rewarding pilots who dont fly the flavor of the month.
now pyro stop listening to these whines about perk system and go check out roll rate calculations :grin:
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If there is one thing I've learned during my time playing AH it's that the game is *always* going to change from month to month. That's what keeps it fresh and new. I think that if HTC finds the perk system does not work out, well then they will come up with something different.
Here's my take on the perk system:
Pros:
Improves arena balance by encouraging the use of more limited planes and limiting the number of other planes
Allows for the inclusion of planes and vehicles that could not be added with any other current system (i.e. unbalancing)
Adds a possible sense of purpose to the MA. Sure it's kind of gamey, but gaining points is a tried and tested way to add fun to a game
Provides a reward for more realistic flying. (You earn more points if you land. You also lose the perk plane/vehicle if you get killed in it.)
It is a totally new gameplay idea for online flightsims.
Does not prevent you from flying your plane of choice based solely on what day it is. (Not a RPS.)
Encourages the use of ACM, as opposed to point and spray with the 4 20mm birds.
Adds literally hundreds of plane/vehicle choices that would not otherwise be in the game.
Will probably cause some people to sign up for AH.
Cons:
Some people won't like the fact that they can't use a plane/vehicle as much as someone else, yet they pay the same per month.
Possible conflicts may result when a perk plane is shot down, or when you are killed by a perk ride.
Adds more to learn to a game with a very steep learning curve already.
Perk bombers will likely fly at stratosphere levels, virtually immune from interception.
Some perk rides may prevent a base capture all by themselves.
Might cause some people to leave AH.
Those are my opinions at least. I guess the thing is that no matter what HTC does, someone will always oppose it. Unlike most games though, HTC openly communicates with the vocal minority to discuss their concerns.
It's also important to remember that HTC is a business. This means that they will make changes and improvements to the game that they feel benefits the majority of players.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS