Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs on February 14, 2001, 08:19:00 AM
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roots up a truffle once in a while.... Yep, even someone as skilless and inexperianced as Drex can come up with a good idea once in a while! Shows that slow talking is not allways slow thinking.
In an earlier thread he suggested that a fair and workable (as oppossed to idiotic and unfair perk) solution to bringing ultra late war and uber planes into the arena would be.... A jet day or, in AH case uber day.
Now, I disslike RPS's and I dissliked WB jet day but... In the spirit of comprimise, this would seem ok. Everyone could try out some of these unimportant, unbalancing but interesting AC for a day every tour. If you didn't want to you could take your chance in an earlier ride or just stay away.
Why screw up the arena 24/7 for a few unimportant planes when we can do this?
lazs
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Laz,
Just curious as to your thoughts of allowing countries with less than, say, 3 fields, to have Uber-planes at their disposal, as a possible proposition in regards to one country have extrememly low numbers, with 2 countries attacking it...whats your feeling on this?
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Rip,
Believe me, I don't care one way or the other about perks. I think HTC will eventually find a workable way to do what they want to do.
Also, your idea may have merit.
But.......
I read your post and instantly the thought overwhelmed me:
Rip's proposing "Secret Weapons of the LOSERS"!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I can just see one country's bold aviators sitting around in the tower, picking their toes, waiting to lose just one more field so they can all launch in the SuperSlammer 6000-B.
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 02-14-2001).]
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Nah I just hate dweebs in the SuperSlammer 6000B.*Real* men grabs the MegaMolestor 2121A!
danish
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rip.. honestly, I have no feeling on your idea. It is out of the realm of my interest. How so? Well... I don't care about "winning" the war. I don't notice if the numbers are unbalanced on the whole so much as how they are in the area I am in.
I don't really think that your idea would affect me much except randomly and not very often. Not sure I have ever seen a time that my country was down to 2-3 fields and don't pay attention to how many fields the other guys have except that... To me, all the red ones are the same. I actually do not know if it is rooks or that other one that I am fighting.
So... maybe that is an opinion after all?
lazs
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Rgr, oh, and it isn't my idea, don't want to take credit for something that may be implemented in the future.
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I think HTC will eventually find a workable way to do what they want to do.
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Eventually HTC will have to do *something*.
I think "most" people understand that eventually AH will have a genuinely full featured WW2 planeset.
As a result there will have to be some system in place that promotes the use of weaker, slower and more lightly armored early warplans against the later issued and far more lethal warplanes.
Whether its an RPS (my choice) or an accumulated point (perk) system isnt of particular concern to me.
What I DO WANT is a more inclusive planeset. I dont want to play in a late war theme indefenitely.
I would prefer a RPS though.
Bottom line is no matter what is done, some folks aint gonna like it.
Yeager
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Naw! If you get down to three fields your uber planes should be limited to the Dr.1 and SE5a. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I agree that voicing your opinion is a good thing, but give these guys a chance. This kind of thread is starting to sound like tales from Chicken Little.
Voss
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I'm just gonna fly and try to hit what I shoot at (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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hmmm... voss... where have i heard that name before? something to do with waiting and giving people a chance i think.
lazs
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god.... I was ----> <---- that close to getting sucked into this again. Maybe tmrrw's bait will be more tempting.
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Oh yeah Laz, a few unimportant aircraft. You mean like the Spitfire MkXIV, the most important aircraft in the 2nd Tactical Airforce in 1944 and 1945? Or how about like the Fw190D-9 and Me262a, the aircraft that without which the P-51D is also unimportant. Or maybe you mean aircraft like the Ki84, which is the only Japanese fighter to truly challenge your F4U. So I guess the F4U is unimortant too and should be removed.
Laz, just because your favorite kite happens to be modeled, don't try to end the war in 1943. Some of us have favorites that come later. The Spitfire F.MkXIVc in my case and the Fw190D-9 in the case of numerous Luftwaffe fans.
Please, shut the <bleep> up.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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It seems kind of funny to me to continuously rant about something that hasn't even happened yet... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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well karnak... the Spit14... may have been important to a couple of squads but it's short range made it fairly irrelevant to the effort. OTOH, The P51 was very important for those years and made in very large numbers with consistent quality ... D9? seriously... doubt if more than a couple hundred ever took to the air and then with little or no impact on the war. Ki84? your kidding right? engine troubles and poor quality kept em out of the fight and the ones that did fite were probly 30-40 mph slower than advertised. Not too important.
still... go ahead, give em the importance they deserve, let em fly for a day.
lazs
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Laz,
You clearly have no idea about the history you are talking about. You should probably go read some books about things besides the F4U.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Originally posted by Lazs:
rip.. honestly, I have no feeling on your idea. It is out of the realm of my interest. How so? Well... I don't care about "winning" the war. I don't notice if the numbers are unbalanced on the whole so much as how they are in the area I am in.
I don't really think that your idea would affect me much except randomly and not very often. Not sure I have ever seen a time that my country was down to 2-3 fields and don't pay attention to how many fields the other guys have except that... To me, all the red ones are the same. I actually do not know if it is rooks or that other one that I am fighting.
So... maybe that is an opinion after all?
lazs
Wow anyone notice what Lazs thoughts spiral around ?
Yup Lazs it's YOUR oppinion .. all YOURS
Sheesssh
DW6
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I don't know what "jet day" means. Is that a day where the only plane available is a jet, or is it a day when jets are opened up to anyone who wants one?
Either way, I dislike that idea. I don't want anyone messing up my AH with "jet day".
Fury
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Jet day in Warbirds was not a good solution. The jet dweebs didn't like being limited to just one day a tour, and the anti-jet dweebs thought that one day per tour was one day too many.
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Actually i thought Jet day was a bit of a non event,
People forget a 262 is only good when it's moving quick..it cant turn for toejam and it is easy meat if it did.
Plenty of people lined up to take down an inexperienced 262 in their SpitXIV's,Stangs, and the such...
Why do you think historically, Ta152's/D-9's flew 262 field cap?
-tronski-
486 Sqn (NZ), "Hiwa hau Maka"
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Originally posted by bloom25:
It seems kind of funny to me to continuously rant about something that hasn't even happened yet... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I was about to post something real similar to the above statement....but thanks fer doing it for me Bloom. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Why dont we ban perk point BBS posts until after the plan starts.
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Trouble with jet day was every swinging dick was in one and you had to fly looking backwards.
You would see an expensive 262 or 163 a hell of a lot less in a matured perk system.
Would still be fun to try for one though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I can already see the squad nights devoted to snagging these machines as they took off or landed at distant fields (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yeager
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Originally posted by lazs:
Well... I don't care about "winning" the war.
How about "whining" the war? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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I have the sudden urge to hunt F4U's. Looks to me like I can count on at least ten wingmen.
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"Earth to Heaven in zero flat."
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
Foxtrot Uniform (sierra) Delta November Romeo Yankee Tango November Whiskey (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
DC 134525-27-2
He'll never get it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I prefer June whiskey, myself. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I have the sudden urge to hunt F4U's
Are you kidding? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) They're my favorite prey each and every day anyways!!
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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duck.. I believe that rip was asking what MY opinon was. That is what I gave.
pakrat... there.... said your handle. happy now?
voss... learn that fancy talk from shooting down migs in the gulf, ace?
Soooo... anyone have an opinion about allowing uber planes to be enabled for a day or two at the end of the tour as a comprimise?
lazs
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I like the perk idea. Even before the whole system is in place, it had promoted more organization and strategical thinking, as Hangtime well said.
I have confronted feelings at the beginning, but on seeing what is happening in the MA, I am all for the perk system. Maybe there are better ways to promote some kind of realistic behaviour, I don't know as of now, but I think perk system is quite good at that.
The day for X, Y or Z plane, well, I don't buy it. If you want a perk plane, earn it. I doubt Htc. will make them so expensive as to negate the possibility of trying. If you like perk rides, then you have a reason to fly for points consistently (that does not mean to go over 30k, you will have to go down for your prey). IMHO, flying for points is the closest resemblance of flying for your life that we can get. This is the right attitude in a flight sim. Not in a flight game. What r you flying?
Cheers,
Pepe
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That's not a compromise, Lazs - that's "Jet Day"... which sucked hard IMHO. The perk system is probably a much better alternative.
Why do I say "probably"? It's because unlike you anti-perk whiners, I freely acknowledge that I don't know the whole equation. I do however know that HTC has stated perk rides will be expensive (as they should be) to limit their numbers. The skies won't be full of "uber" rides as they would under your "Jet Day" proposal (which sucks).
Same thing with the minimum 2 perk rides per day proposal of some other whiners - or maybe it was you. Your type wants everyone to always have a perk plane available and that is the fastest way I can think of to kill the sim. Jet Day every day. Yeah Baby. People complain about the guys that fly the CHog now. Implement the two rides debacle and you'll have even louder whining.
What is so frigging hard about just waiting to see how it actually works before squeaking and moaning, Lazs?
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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pak... u just don't get it. perks will be handed out for behavoir that is not even considered worthwhile or skilled by some...
the focus of the game will go from a free for all with a new game every time you take off to some tour long everquest bull.
seeing even one uber plane in an arena full of otherwise balanced planes and not having any antidote for it other than avoid it is annoying. If you feel a nik is "uber" right now you can simply go up in one next time you take off.
what is the attractrion of having an uber ride against inferior planes? wouldn't you be better off in a boxed sim with adjustable AI? I really would like to know.
still.... perhaps there could be "furball" island where not only were the fields uncaptuarable but no bombers or perk rides were available/allowed.
Guess what this boils down too is a major rift in player base... Those who want to furball/free for all and those who want to everquest.
When I fly with my squddies for the hour or so we all have free we don't want to be bothered with any real "goal" or complex rules/scoring... We just want to kill stuff. We don't want to be annoyed by some dipshit in his wizz bang trophy plane. He merely cheapens the experiance for us and slows down the action.
conversly... I imagine some would love to have "goals" and bask in the (cough) "admiration" of the rest of us when they (choke) "earned" an uber ride. If it were just that they wanted to fly late war planes then a seperate "day" or "arena" would suffice.
lazs
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No, lazs, you don't get it. You apparently really like to just whine. Fact of the matter is you just look stupid.
Your point about the one "uber" plane in the arena and avoiding it is something I actually look forward to. It's a bit like having shorter icon ranges. Adds tension. Adds realism. Not every plane in WWII was a bland cookie-cutter version of the next. They had strengths and weaknesses and sometimes these were very pronounced. That was the whole point - to outclass the opponent and kill without being killed. This will add a little of that without making it a free-for-all "Jet Day". Not all perks will be hunter-killers anyway. Some will be bombers and some will be ground vehicles.
Better off in a boxed sim? Nope. I like flying against people. That's what it's all about isn't it? AI is never as good at simulating a human intelligence as a human or as fun to defeat. I like to fly in both superior and inferior planes and take my chances against people. Plain and simple.
Actually, the one who sounds like they should be flying a boxed sim is you. That way you could make all planes the same and not have to worry about something unexpected attacking you.
There already is a furball island - it's the main island. Nothing strategic and it draws the quakers so they can mix it up ad nauseum.
IMHO, your lumping everyone into free-for-all and Everquest groups does everyone a disservice. Your view of the player base is too simplistic and I think reflects your limited view of the sim in general. You need to broaden your horizons and experiences, dude.
As evidence:
When I fly with my squddies for the hour or so we all have free we don't want to be bothered with any real "goal" or complex rules/scoring... We just want to kill stuff. We don't want to be annoyed by some dipshit in his wizz bang trophy plane. He merely cheapens the experiance for us and slows down the action.
What a limited view. It sounds like you are the one that needs the "furball island". It sounds like you don't want anyone to be able to fly anything but the rides you deem appropriate or fly in the style that suits you. You must get really pissed if someone shoots you down. Not fair or something I would guess.
Your arguments are mixed up. You complain about one thing then claim that is what you want to be able to enjoy the sim. Are you smoking crack, lazs? I'm really not following your arguments at all. This really is sounding like you only like seeing your name in type instead of actually wanting to better the sim.
Are you that envious of people that would earn a perk ride? Does it bother you that much that someone might enjoy something other than your favorite airplane or that they would enjoy a different flying style? You really need to lighten up, dude. This is nowhere near the end of the worrld you make it out to be.
My offer still stands. I have a good friend who can print up shirts. All you guys in the "Sky is Falling" camp might be interested in something with that slogan and a cartoon of you huddled in a hole trying to avoid progress or enjoyment because you are too freaking afraid that perks might be fun.
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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LOL pak.. I guess we will never understand each others point of view. I do however claim that my view point has been consitent.
You have, so far as I can see only one and a half points for having the idiotic perk system over an "uber day".... The one is that you find the tension of looking over your shoulder to avoid the annoying uber planes is invigorating or... as you put it, like shortening the icon range. This point is at least a point... It is your opinion and it is what you want. I think it's worthless but it is a point... Your half a point is that WWII planes were not "cookie cutter" and that they had strengths and weakness that you could exploit. This was and is true but it is true of the CURRENT plane set. A -4 Hog has only strengths.... NO weaknesses against other model Hogs... Same goes for Spit 14, P51H etc. No... it would appear that you just want some kind of "powerup" that in your words you have "earned"... How have you earned it? You gamed a dumb, flawed system or camped online? If you had "earned" it in such a way that everyone felt it was fair... Then why would you even want it?
So far I have outlined numerous reasons why i don't want perk planes or points (nevermind perk bombers closing even more fields) while you have given as your sole reason for having perks...... It will be like decreasing the icon range.
So answer the real question... If you had 24 hrs to fly a perk at the end of a tour, unlimited sorties (like everyone else)...... Why would that be worse than having one for a few sorties a tour a la the idiotic perk system?