Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2004, 07:28:29 AM
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After reading this article (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040908/D84V54IG0.html) about the gap in Bush's service record, this paragraph below caught my eye:
The records also show Bush made a grade of 88 on total airmanship and a perfect 100 for flying without navigational instruments, operating a T-38 System and studying applied aerodynamics. Other scores ranged from 89 in flight planning to 98 in aviation physiology.[/b]
Now, based on the presumptions that Bush is truly unintellectual and an idiot by the majority of the left, I would say that one would not, could not be that stupid and score 88 on total airmanship, rank 22nd in a class of 54, and score a perfect 100 on non-navigational instrument flying.
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Maybe he learned to fly without using the instruments because he couldn't read them?
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Umm, I don't get it westy.
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Originally posted by Westy
"an idiot "
http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/obgyn.html
There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind.
Well, with his educational background and service record accolades and grades, then what would that make you Westy? I'm just trying to establish a baseline for "idiot". ;)
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"an idiot "
http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movies/obgyn.html
There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind.
(lasersailor184 seeing your last comment in a different topic where you said John Kerry got more soldiers killed in Vietnam than would have been I can see why)
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Don't change the subject. I don't know if I'm just listening to it different than you, but what about what he said makes him an idiot?
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"I'm just trying to establish a baseline for "idiot"."
I think without a doubt several neocons here did that a quite LONG time ago.
As for his "his educational background" he barely made it out of Yale. And don't try and lather up a plate of crap about him having to have been a superlative student to have gotten in.
"And service record accolades"
Accolades? Such as??
Sorry Lasersailor. If with your own ears you can't hear his stupidity then any explanation is pointless. Really.
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so westy... if Bush is smarter than you... what does that make you?
lazs
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Think of it as a joke that I just don't get. Please, explain it to me, you have me curious as hell now.
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He Barely graduated from Yale.
:rofl :rofl
Ok, but he STILL GRADUATED FROM FREAKIN' YALE!!!
Where's you guys go to college?
I barely graduated from Adelphi University!
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A rocket scientist in comparison who's not afraid of woman but who did not have a rich, politically connected daddy.
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You haven't answered my question yet...
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"Far too many OBGYN's are not able to practice their love with women across this country."
In case you're deaf. Otherwise I already answered your question.
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No, I'm not deaf. I just played the movie 5 times over and still don't get it. Maybe there is something in a liberal brain that pops something I missed out of what he said. Please explain what was so bad about it.
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You can play that game with someone else.
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What game? I seriously have no clue as to what is so bad about what he said...
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If you give few million to Yale, your cat can be a graduate too...
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Originally posted by fd ski
If you give few million to Yale, your cat can be a graduate too...
Do you have facts and data to support that claim, or just shooting from the hip as usual?
Communications from Bush Sr. to the Dean with transfer of funds in leiu of graduation would be appropriate to back up your claim.
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
He Barely graduated from Yale.
:rofl :rofl
Ok, but he STILL GRADUATED FROM FREAKIN' YALE!!!
Where's you guys go to college?
I barely graduated from Adelphi University!
[HIJACK]LOL, I barely graduated from University of Alabama at Birmingham.[/HIJACK]
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Yowsa. So had Slimm and Muckmaw had access to the Bush family political connections either of them could have been president!?!
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1. No, I wasn't a Guard pilot. I didn't even know about the program.
2. I've read what the articles released so far. As far as I can tell, there's only one stat in them that is real definite.
He graduated in the top half of his class. That's certainly respectable. For one, a UPT class generally doesn't have very many "dull knives in the drawer". Their testing is pretty good in sorting for what they desire. So, it's not like graduating in the top half of a high school class where the school has to take everyone whether the kid wants to be there or not.
In a UPT class, everyone wants to be there, they are generally pretty smart guys to begin with and it's a very competitive environment.
3. As for the rest of the "scores" they'd have to be more definitive. Are these checkride scores? "Phase" scores? Are they academic scores on the final tests in from the ground school part of UPT? I think they need to be more specific. Realize that they test and score everything. They scored you on Physical Training too when we played "flickerball". ;)
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So westy, from your lack of a response, you are actually telling me that there is nothing wrong with what he said and that you are trying to make something out of nothing.
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Thanks Toad.
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IN before Skuzzy slams the door on this obviously hijacked thread turned flamefest. :rolleyes:
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Personally I'm impressed by anyone who can master a jet fighter. But then I'm impressed by a good plumber too. Or a virtuoso musician. None of the above makes you a good president.
The obgyn-love line was pretty lame though.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Personally I'm impressed by anyone who can master a jet fighter. But then I'm impressed by a good plumber too. Or a virtuoso musician. None of the above makes you a good president.
The obgyn-love line was pretty lame though.
No one said being a fighter pilot makes someone a good POTUS. Idiots do not become fighter pilots, therefore, Bush "idioism" is simply false.
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Originally posted by fd ski
If you give few million to Yale, your cat can be a graduate too...
LMAO!! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Tell us then MT, exactly what jobs or training or experiences in life prepare one to be a "good president"?
Is there an approved formula or career path?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
No one said being a fighter pilot makes someone a good POTUS. Idiots do not become fighter pilots, therefore, Bush "idioism" is simply false.
He seems more intelligent with his mouth closed.
Not sure Toad. I'd like to see some kind of high office in a POTUS's background, Governor or Senator. Maybe some sort of international posting. A wife who speaks at least 3 languages is good too.
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Originally posted by Toad
Tell us then MT, exactly what jobs or training or experiences in life prepare one to be a "good president"?
Is there an approved formula or career path?
easy one...
war hero, then war hater, then 20 years sucking gov tit in Senate, then war hero = perfect POTUS - LOL
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Originally posted by Westy
Yowsa. So had Slimm and Muckmaw had access to the Bush family political connections either of them could have been president!?!
I might be a less controversial candidate, since I never served in the military. OTOH, .....nm, if elected, I will not serve. :p
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
He Barely graduated from Yale.
:rofl :rofl
Ok, but he STILL GRADUATED FROM FREAKIN' YALE!!!
Where's you guys go to college?
I barely graduated from Adelphi University!
Actually, the "barely graduated" BS is exactly that. Bush actually got better grades during his undergraduate schooling than Kerry did.
In addition to this, Bush has an MBA from Harvard.
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Originally posted by Toad
Tell us then MT, exactly what jobs or training or experiences in life prepare one to be a "good president"?
Is there an approved formula or career path?
That's a interesting question - I would like to see a Vet turned international business man/woman. No Senators or Congressmen, to many have "friends" in Wash. A good manager can build his specialists around himself.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I'd like to see some kind of high office in a POTUS's background, Governor or Senator.
Senators that later became Presidents, none recently. Which of these last three do you think were really outstanding as President?
James Monroe
Senator, 1790-1794
President, 1817-1825
John Quincy Adams
Senator, 1803-1808
President, 1825-1829
Andrew Jackson
Senator, 1797-1798; 1823-1825
President, 1829-1837
Martin Van Buren
Senator, 1821-1828
President, 1837-1841
William Henry Harrison
Senator, 1825-1828
President, 1841
John Tyler
Senator, 1827-1836
President, 1841-1845
Franklin Pierce
Senator, 1837-1842
President, 1853-1857
James Buchanan
Senator, 1834-1845
President, 1857-1861
Andrew Johnson
Senator, 1857-1862; 1875
President, 1865-1869
Benjamin Harrison
Senator, 1881-1887
President, 1889-1893
Warren G. Harding
Senator, 1915-1921
President, 1921-1923
Harry S. Truman
Senator, 1935-1945
President, 1945-1953
John F. Kennedy
Senator, 1953-1960
President, 1961-1963
Lyndon B. Johnson
Senator, 1949-1961
President, 1963-1969
Richard M. Nixon
Senator, 1950-1953
President, 1969-1974
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It's not bs and if you have a link that shows what Kerry's grades were I'd be interested in seeing those too.
Anyway. Here is a one-stop shop on Bush's Yale years.
http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/webfeatures/2003/01/dreier-p-01-27.html
As for the MBA? Good for him (applies to anyone who goes to grad school let alone undergrad) but he must have been snoozing in class because his track record in business was abysmal.
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John F. Kennedy
Senator, 1953-1960
President, 1961-1963
Hehe, anyone see a connection? :D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
No one said being a fighter pilot makes someone a good POTUS. Idiots do not become fighter pilots, therefore, Bush "idioism" is simply false.
Ahem... the smart one is in the back seat. ;)
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Originally posted by Toad
Senators that later became Presidents, none recently. Which of these last three do you think were really outstanding as President?
Why not do the last 4?
Truman was a pleasant surprise to everyone.. including Truman. He exceeded all expectations.
Johnson was a foreign policy flop, but hit a domestic homerun.
Nixon was the anti-Johnson. He was stellar at foreign policy and a numbnut at home.
Kennedy - A great communicator. Full of promise undelivered IMHO.
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After several years of reading some of Kennedy's speeches, I will finally admit he was a good pres...after all, it was he who lead the fight to communism in which Reagan put the final nail in the coffin....
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Originally posted by Westy
"I'm just trying to establish a baseline for "idiot"."
I think without a doubt several neocons here did that a quite LONG time ago.
do you know that neocons came from the Liberal left wing, that desided that they wanted to back the military.
[/i]
..he barely made it out of Yale. [/QUOTE]
apose to you getting into YALE
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"apose to you getting into YALE"
I covered that above JBA but I'll repeat it .... I did not have a rich, politically connected Daddeo!
But in your case you'd had to have made INTO high school to even have had a chance. ;)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
A wife who speaks at least 3 languages is good too.
meaningless dribble...
she's not elected and therfore STFU.
Go do some charity work untill you are elected as President, then your husban can STFU as well. I don't like these defacto president spouses.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Ahem... the smart one is in the back seat. ;)
F-102 is a single seater :p
Just kill ya to give the man any credit?
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Originally posted by Sandman
Ahem... the smart one is in the back seat. ;)
If that were true, why did the so called "smart one" get in the plane where the "dumb one" was driving??? :p
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Originally posted by LePaul
F-102 is a single seater :p
Just kill ya to give the man any credit?
Originally posted by Maverick
If that were true, why did the so called "smart one" get in the plane where the "dumb one" was driving??? :p
That wasn't a jab at Toad.
I used to think fighter pilots were a special breed, a cut above the common man. Then I spent a few years working with them. Certainly, some are special, but by and large they are average people, no better or smarter than anyone else that you'll meet that is good at what they do. Certainly, it takes a special man to fly through an air defense grid and drop bombs on a target, but it's not any more special than your grandfather pouring out of a landing craft and charging up a beach in France, or a fire fighter that rushes into a burning building. There are heroes all around you just like them. There are also people that operate complex and dangerous machines that probably live on your street. They just don't make movies about them.
Anyway... when I was with VF-191 and VF-51, I got some general impressions on pilots and RIOs. The RIO handled navigation, the bulk of the comms, operated the radar, trouble shot the avionics systems and all the other things necessary to let the pilot concentrate on aviating. Certainly, all of them, front and backseat must be intelligent, but the guy in the back was usually a bit of a nerd.
I might be completely out in left field, but I suspect that single-seat fighter pilots are probably a cut above the guys that bring a nerd with them. The task loading has got to be higher.
I don't mean to offend... If I'm full of ****, say so Toad and I'll just delete the whole thing.
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Originally posted by JBA
I posted meaningless dribble...
........... and therfore STFU.
:cool:
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Kennedy - A great communicator. Full of promise undelivered IMHO.
Promises undelivered pretty much sums it up. Kennedy really wasn't that good of a president. The best things he did was to look good and get shot. Regardless of what rip says...
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Now, based on the presumptions that Bush is truly unintellectual and an idiot by the majority of the left, I would say that one would not, could not be that stupid and score 88 on total airmanship, rank 22nd in a class of 54, and score a perfect 100 on non-navigational instrument flying.
All pilots are intellectually superior.
:lol
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Sandy,
My post was just a response to the usual RIO vs Pilot bantering. :p
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Originally posted by Eagler
easy one...
war hero, then war hater, then 20 years sucking gov tit in Senate, then war hero = perfect POTUS - LOL
As compared to:
Drunk/cocaine user=bad businessman=Gov=Pres
:lol
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Originally posted by Silat
As compared to:
Drunk/cocaine user=bad businessman=Gov=Pres
:lol
nope
as compared to 6 years great gov, outstanding POTUS last 4 years = outstanding POTUS for 4 more years
LANDSLIDE BUSH !!!
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I think he is very smart. How else does a guy from Andover, Massachusetts prep school become gov of Texas. He is either very smart or they are pretty dumb in Texas.
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I’m confused, how did Kerry get into Yale?
“Kerry's father, a diplomat in the Foreign Service, and his mother, Rosemary, was a member of the Boston Brahmin Forbes family, whose wealth is drawn primarily from its land holdings on Cape Cod, made certain that Kerry received the best education that their positions could afford him. Kerry was educated at Swiss boarding schools and attended an elite private school in New Hampshire, before enrolling in Yale University.”
I’m sure, money or political connected didn’t show their ugly face here?
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Quote:
"Why not do the last 4"?
"Truman was a pleasant surprise to everyone.. including Truman". He exceeded all expectations". - Yep, he used TWO nuclear weapons on Japan....
"Johnson was a foreign policy flop, but hit a domestic homerun". - Yeah, everyone agrees "The Great Society" eliminated poverty forever, and thus any need for hand-wringing Liberals....
"Nixon was the anti-Johnson. He was stellar at foreign policy and a numbnut at home". - Uh huh, Nixon gave us the Evironmental Protection Agency and OSHA, which were really stupid moves....
"Kennedy - A great communicator. Full of promise undelivered IMHO". - Yeah, who knows, Kennedy may have led us to victory in Cuba and Viet Nam....
C.
__________________
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Originally posted by Gyro/T69
I’m confused, how did Kerry get into Yale?
“Kerry's father, a diplomat in the Foreign Service, and his mother, Rosemary, was a member of the Boston Brahmin Forbes family, whose wealth is drawn primarily from its land holdings on Cape Cod, made certain that Kerry received the best education that their positions could afford him. Kerry was educated at Swiss boarding schools and attended an elite private school in New Hampshire, before enrolling in Yale University.”
I’m sure, money or political connected didn’t show their ugly face here?
He was far from affluent.By taking the quote out of the story you left much of the truth out.
``We weren't rich,'' explained Kerry's sister, Diana. ``We certainly had some members of the family we thought of as rich. We were the [beneficiaries] of a great-aunt who had no children. My father was on salary from the State Department, and my mother had some family money but not major.''
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061503.shtml
He did marry well though. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Idiots do not become fighter pilots, therefore, Bush "idioism" is simply false.
I respectfully do not concur with that assumption, that IDIOT pilot that killed 5 Canadians is an "IDIOT" and shouldn't be aloud back in any jet fighter.....
trigger happy IDIOTS are not necessarily "STUPID", but you get my POV.
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Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:
"Why not do the last 4"?
"Truman was a pleasant surprise to everyone.. including Truman". He exceeded all expectations". - Yep, he used TWO nuclear weapons on Japan....
"Johnson was a foreign policy flop, but hit a domestic homerun". - Yeah, everyone agrees "The Great Society" eliminated poverty forever, and thus any need for hand-wringing Liberals....
"Nixon was the anti-Johnson. He was stellar at foreign policy and a numbnut at home". - Uh huh, Nixon gave us the Evironmental Protection Agency and OSHA, which were really stupid moves....
"Kennedy - A great communicator. Full of promise undelivered IMHO". - Yeah, who knows, Kennedy may have led us to victory in Cuba and Viet Nam....
C.
__________________
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
PWN3D.
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"taking the quote out of the story you left much of the truth out.”
Didn't get it from the Boston Globe.
"We weren't rich"
Hmmm, rich people saying they’re not rich. Compared to what?
Did your family have the bucks to send you to a Swiss boarding school or attend an elite private school in New Hampshire?
Mine sure the hell didn't. Sounds like there’s a bit more cash that Boston bus tokens being swapped back and forth.
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My , no one really has not seen bushs grade point avg. I have and thought it funny that it was decently higher that clintons,kerrys, in fact it ranges a little lower to higher than those that call him an idiot....funny how this idiot wins so many debates and how putin has now said bush is intellengent and right about the terriorist.
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Originally posted by SLO
I respectfully do not concur with that assumption, that IDIOT pilot that killed 5 Canadians is an "IDIOT" and shouldn't be aloud back in any jet fighter.....
I respectfully suggest that if you were not at the briefing, in the seat, or even in the cockpit, than you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
But, that's an impression I get when I read just about any of your posts.
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guess they have to try to compare 30+ year records ...
God knows they can't run on say the last 10 ...Bush would blow skerry's useless flip flop arse right out of the water...
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Originally posted by Sandman
I don't mean to offend... If I'm full of ****, say so Toad and I'll just delete the whole thing.
Of course you are full of ****. You are a Navy guy. Quod erat demonstrandum. :)
Fighter pilots, like the people pool from which they are drawn, are a diverse group. Some are the Hollywood version, some are much more quiet, some are bookish even. They are just people and their personalities vary. They share common traits, of course; the things that they need to do the job. There are great ones, good ones, average ones and some poor ones.
In short, I wouldn't generalize any particular thing about them. As far as single seat vs two seaters, you have to remember that it's mostly luck of the draw which you get from the assignment section at HQ. You're rated out of UPT as either fighter qualified or not. If you are, you can get any fighter. It just depends on where they need bodies at that moment. Now, no doubt a single seat guy evolves to a more "self-reliant" profile. After all, they TEACH you to rely on your backseater IF you have one.
I wasn't a fighter pilot, btw. In my class of 55 there were 7 fighters and our jobs were randomly assigned by the "big computer". At the time, they were trying things to see that each command (TAC, MAC, SAC, etc.) had an equal chance to get the good and the average and the bad from each class. They abandoned the random computer system in pretty short order. ;)
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I work around fighter pilots on a daily basis and have done so for almost 10 years now. It may be slightly different when it comes to AF, Navy and Marines but typically the pilot not the WSO is actually the brighter of the bunch. I'm not discrediting the WSOs duties and performance by any means. It just really depends on the weapons platform.
In the F-15E Strike Eagle the WSO for the most part is doing alot of the work. Again though it takes two to get the mission done. Either way they all do their job and do it well most of the time. But troubleshooting for maintenance isn't one of their better traits. Some spend years learning and some think they've spent years learning only to find out they are clueless on how the systems work.
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there is a reason they call them "swift" boats - LOL
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Originally posted by Gyro/T69
"taking the quote out of the story you left much of the truth out.”
Didn't get it from the Boston Globe.
"We weren't rich"
Hmmm, rich people saying they’re not rich. Compared to what?
Did your family have the bucks to send you to a Swiss boarding school or attend an elite private school in New Hampshire?
Mine sure the hell didn't. Sounds like there’s a bit more cash that Boston bus tokens being swapped back and forth.
Hey if you just want to believe the talking points and Hannity then just say so. But you can find the information as easy as I. Bush was the silver spoon baby.
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I've been told the F-15E is one helleva fighter if you happen to get a ride on one.
;) :D
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Senna a slick F-15E will give you a ride for your life. About the exact same maneuverability as the C but with extra thrust. Well that is ofcourse it has PW 229 motors in it. Either way both birds will make you sick at the hands of a mean pilot. :lol
I've seen some videos of our birds when they are doing advanced handling checks for the test pilots. I've got to say these guys are nuts. And through it all they are as calm as can be. We even had a crew induce a nasty inverted flat spin. Problem was they weren't even expecting it. They came down saying sorry for the over g but we weren't even expecting it to come off like it did.
Nice thing about the F-15 is even at high AOA and trying to induce a flat spin your lucky if it will do it 3 out of 10 tries. Even walking the rudders off at extreme AOA will majority of the time cause it to depart left or right and never enter the flat spin. Still think our test pilots are nuts though.