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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2004, 08:27:48 AM

Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2004, 08:27:48 AM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1540&e=3&u=/afp/climate_polar_europe

North Pole once had sub-tropical seas because of global warming...

""This is convincing proof that global warming has a planetary-wide effect, having a major impact on locations even as distant as the North Pole."


As for what have caused the big warming during this period, two theories are being aired, both based on the greenhouse principle in which gases were released into the atmosphere, trapping the Sun's heat.



So, Global warming IS INDEED a naturally occuring event.
Thank you, that is all.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: boxboy28 on September 08, 2004, 08:32:56 AM
old news ripster ....
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2004, 08:34:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by boxboy28
old news ripster ....


Tue Sep 7, 1:15 PM ET

Yep, yesterday...
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 08, 2004, 08:35:04 AM
I dont think anybody ever argued global warming was not a potential naturally accuring event.

The discussion is whether human activity is causing it or accelerating now.  

Personally I think current human activity is a good part of the problem.

But global warming or not I think that WE ALL need to find ways to reduce emmisions and pollution and do it now before china, india and someday africa grow wealthier and pollute even more than they do now. The record of disasterous envioronmental practices in fast growing economies is atrocious. And in the next decade  the economies of more than 1/3 of the world's population are about to grow awfully fast...
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2004, 08:44:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I dont think anybody ever argued global warming was not a potential naturally accuring event.

The discussion is whether human activity is causing it or accelerating now.  

Personally I think current human activity is a good part of the problem.

But global warming or not I think that WE ALL need to find ways to reduce emmisions and pollution and do it now before china, india and someday africa grow wealthier and pollute even more than they do now. The record of disasterous envioronmental practices in fast growing economies is atrocious. And in the next decade  the economies of more than 1/3 of the world's population are about to grow awfully fast...


We, as a culture, are REALLY ARROGANT to think that we could cause global warming...we certainly contribute, but not at the scale that the earth naturally does.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 08, 2004, 08:49:04 AM
Well thats the discussion Rip...

Now 6 billion.  Soon 9...  And by that time those 9 billion will be a lot more wealthy than the average of today.. That means more cars, more factories, more polutants..

Like I said global warming or not, fast growing economies have a clear historic record of disasterous environemtal polcies.  Right now more than 1/3 of the worlds population (China/Inda) are entering just that stage. Considering the currewnt attitudes of those nations aboiut cleanliness I'm pretty afraid what they will do during their hyper growth...

I'd rather we preempt the problem...
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: boxboy28 on September 08, 2004, 08:52:26 AM
Rip all  i was saying is that scientist have stated the fact the yes global warming has happend several times in the past due to green house gases emitted by the earth it self ...i.e. volcanos, natrual gas  etc .....
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: straffo on September 08, 2004, 09:00:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
We, as a culture, are REALLY ARROGANT to think that we could cause global warming...we certainly contribute, but not at the scale that the earth naturally does.


Rip explain me why you accept a preemptive war (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129668)  but not the same attitude for earth ?

Don't forget : eath is not a gift from our parent ,it's our children who lend it to us.
(La terre n'est pas un don de nos parents ce sont nos enfants qui nous la prêtent)
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2004, 09:05:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Rip explain me why you accept a preemptive war (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129668)  but not the same attitude for earth ?

Don't forget : eath is not a gift from our parent ,it's our children who lend it to us.
(La terre n'est pas un don de nos parents ce sont nos enfants qui nous la prêtent)


Preemptive war will prevent pre-emptive nuclear blasts, which are worse.

Now end the hi-jack.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2004, 09:06:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by boxboy28
Rip all  i was saying is that scientist have stated the fact the yes global warming has happend several times in the past due to green house gases emitted by the earth it self ...i.e. volcanos, natrual gas  etc .....


But none of it was as convincing proof as this spot of news, thus the post.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: JimBear on September 08, 2004, 09:24:15 AM
Hmmm, maybe pre-emptive nuclear blasts to cure global warming with a touch of nuclear winter? ;)
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Ripsnort on September 08, 2004, 09:27:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JimBear
Hmmm, maybe pre-emptive nuclear blasts to cure global warming with a touch of nuclear winter? ;)


:lol :aok
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Thrawn on September 08, 2004, 01:24:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
We, as a culture, are REALLY ARROGANT to think that we could cause global warming


Something is deemed arrogant, therefore it hasn't been done?  


Quote
...we certainly contribute, but not at the scale that the earth naturally does.


So.  The planet naturally produces 100 units of greenhouse gases in a year.  

The planet naturally reuptakes 100 units of greenhouse gases in a year.  

Humans produces 10 extra units of greenhouse gases in a year.  

We are contributing, and not at the scale the earth naturally does, but the amount of greenhouse gases that are in the atmosphere increases.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: vorticon on September 08, 2004, 01:33:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Preemptive war will prevent pre-emptive nuclear blasts, which are worse.

Now end the hi-jack.


while preemptive earth saving will stop our grand children from preemptivly living underdround and worrying about capture by the enviroment police, who under there evil dictator leader, running a "perfect" communist economy, kill anyone who so much as increases the carbon dioxide amount by breathing more than the set number of times per minute - adapted from a really bad old sf radio play about the future after nuclear war, and keeping the human genome perfect.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: cpxxx on September 08, 2004, 01:40:59 PM
Grunherz and Ripsnort. I completely agree with you. Yes this is a first.
It is incredibly arrogant for people to belive that we caused global warming assuming it is actually happening.  Classic examples were an environmentalist claiming the two recent hurricanes were caused by global warming.  Other examples are when people living on flood plains get flooded. Doh!

But it is fair to say emissions need to be reduced. That can't be a bad thing.

Sooner or later global warming will go the way of the hole in the ozone layer. Whatever happened to that end of world scare?
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: vorticon on September 08, 2004, 01:46:03 PM
Quote
It is incredibly arrogant for people to belive that we caused global warming assuming it is actually happening.


oh its definatly happening, as to whether or not we made it happen, there is a fair amount of evidence that were helping it along.


it probably wont last though, all that extra water going about will negate the effects.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: straffo on September 08, 2004, 02:07:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Preemptive war will prevent pre-emptive nuclear blasts, which are worse.

Now end the hi-jack.


Vat youve found VMD in Iraq ?
wow !
Title: Re: On Global warming...
Post by: Sandman on September 08, 2004, 02:54:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
So, Global warming IS INDEED a naturally occuring event.
Thank you, that is all.


No... Global warming CAN BE a naturally occuring event. This doesn't necessarily mean that humans cannot affect the climate.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Samiam on September 08, 2004, 05:03:36 PM
Emissions from cars and fossile fuel burning factories is much more acutely a local health and aesthetic issue rather than a global warming issue.

And Grunherz is on the right trail: If China's economy continues to take off and they start buying cars and driving them like North Americans, global warming will be the least of our concerns as we long for the good old days when gas was $2.50 a gallon and the Saudi's gave a rats prettythang about the U.S.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: midnight Target on September 08, 2004, 05:09:45 PM
You are tripping all over yourself on this one Rip.

Strong winds are a naturally occurring event, so wind tunnels are impossible.

doh!
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Lizking on September 08, 2004, 05:14:03 PM
If China would trade in all the wood and coal they burn for heating and eating, they could Damn sure drive cars for a net reduction in pollution.  Same for other under-developed countries.  Do not confuse energy use with pollution; they are not on a linked linear curve.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 08, 2004, 05:18:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
If China would trade in all the wood and coal they burn for heating and eating, they could Damn sure drive cars for a net reduction in pollution.  Same for other under-developed countries.  Do not confuse energy use with pollution; they are not on a linked linear curve.


Just wait till China's economy really grows, If they arent careful it could turn out to be one of the worlds greatest environmental disasters.. :)

Still I really really wish I could speak Manadrin, cuz there is tons of money to be made in china very soon. :(
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Lizking on September 08, 2004, 05:23:42 PM
It is already an ecological disaster, with only the USSR doing worse environmental damage.  **** Koyoto, make those *******s clean their **** up to US standards, then let's talk.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 08, 2004, 05:26:57 PM
Yes, thats exactly what makes me worry, it will only get worse with hyper growth..

As for Kyoto, well nobody is taking that seriously...
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Samiam on September 08, 2004, 05:32:43 PM
I think some of you are missing the point on China. If they start driving like us (in the US), the environment and global warming will be insignificant compared to what will happen to gas prices and the balance of power in the middle east when the US market no longer carries all the weight. Saudi's need our money. Lord help us when they don't.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: SLO on September 08, 2004, 05:36:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lizking
It is already an ecological disaster, with only the USSR doing worse environmental damage.  **** Koyoto, make those *******s clean their **** up to US standards, then let's talk.


sorry but the U.S. didn't agree to participate in the reduction of polution in the Kiyoto Accord.....


and Rip, nice try, would you like me to find the reverse of that scientific assumption.....

Agent Smith said it best in The Matrix.

We invade the land, consume all its natural resources and move on to the next location, only a virus can be compared to us.
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 08, 2004, 05:55:29 PM
Kyoto was a bad deal for any major western economy, only an idiot government would actually put it into effect.  And so far I'm not sure if anyone has.  It gave too much of a free pass to the deverloping world. I doubt they took into effect how quickly those econimies would grow; a fact that doesent surprise me one bit considering the whole joke treaty was written up by a bunch of ignorant commie socialist euro UN bureocrat types who know nothing about how economies work.

Thankfully nobody gives a damn any more...
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Lizking on September 08, 2004, 05:56:01 PM
No SLO, because they wanted to limit our Energy use, Versus actual pollution of the rest of the "developing" world.  That is my point.

Energy use does NOT equal pollution, but that was the underlying assumption of Koyoto (and most guilt-ridden liberals).
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Thrawn on September 08, 2004, 05:59:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
Sooner or later global warming will go the way of the hole in the ozone layer. Whatever happened to that end of world scare?



Whatever happened to CFCs?
Title: On Global warming...
Post by: Bluedog on September 08, 2004, 06:23:34 PM
Saw a documentary a few weeks back where they were studying ice samples taken from the Antarctic, something like 3 km down.
Apparently by thawing the ice, and analising the gasses released, they can get an accurate picture of the makeup of the Earth's atmospheric gasses from thousands of years ago.

To cut a long story short, all the evidence seems to point to the fact that global warming is a naturally occuring phenomenom and that we are actually in a period of unusual stability.
It has happened before, many times, and a lot of those times were far more extreme than the current situation.


Yeah, I know, my spelling sux.