Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lasersailor184 on September 08, 2004, 06:00:24 PM
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I thoroughly enjoy flying during the night time and frankly couldn't give a **** if other people turn up their gamma. If that's what they have fun doing, go right ahead.
But for me it's exciting not being able to see well. Plus I think it will look awesome in AH2.
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I liked it too but Im sure your about to have a whole slew of folks posting after me that have a different view lmao
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Bring back the night!
Hmmm, feels like I've done this before.
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waiting for the die hard whinners to come and and say NO!.
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Id like to see night come back, I could care less about the gamma dweebs either. If they need to abuse the game let em. And the flaming of this thread will soon begin.
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I'm on this bus. I'd love to have night back.. Especially if someone will make an olive drab B17 skin instead of these darn Aluminum ones!
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I actually like night in a limited way.. It does add another element
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There was night in WW2....and it was fun flying at night..made for special challenges.....and all the dweebs can just turn their gamma up to compensate:D
Bring back Night...Please
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night is better than the 2 hour "sunset / sunrise"
i wonder... IRL how many times were attacks / fights planned or happen during the crack of dawn or evening?
if you were to schedule an attack and wanted it to happe in the dark, i could see possibly taking off near sunset, but not being anywhere NEAR enagement with the sun up still.
same with morning, who would take off at 3 AM to attack at dawn and have that sun interferring with the mission possibly?
i could be way off, but were there really raids (in only aircraft NOT support of ground troops) that were intended to commence at dusk / dawn?
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How about a compromise - just like in the artic circle - 6 months of daylight and 6 months of night time...... didn't think so.
6 months of daylight 6 months of day&night?
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30 minutes of Night is all I ask each day.
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Originally posted by KurtVW
I'm on this bus. I'd love to have night back.. Especially if someone will make an olive drab B17 skin instead of these darn Aluminum ones!
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129593 :D
I'd love to have night back. I loved being able to use the hard to see terrain to my advantage, except for the gamma dweebs, but I dont mind that.
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I don't mind gamma dweebs. In fact, I was a lot better at night than in the day.
Bring back night, damnit!
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howabout every 2 hours, 30min of night.
I'd agree with the night thing as long as the effects were great.
(AKA, engine exhaust visible when it'd hot, light effects, etc etc etc.)
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Knights for nights
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Along with night, we need high-altitude contrails, weather effects, and clouds.
REAL clouds, damnit! STRATUS CLOUDS RULE!!
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
waiting for the die hard whinners to come and and say NO!.
no
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no.
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No.
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i would do a short night, say ohh ten minuetes.
BUT FIRST THEY HAVE TO BRING BACK THE BIG THICK PUFFY, GET LOST IN CLOUDS!!!!:rofl :aok
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10 minutes isn't long enough to do anything though.
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Can't even get a lanc off the runway in 10 minutes :D
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If the night had some substance, like onboard radar for the aircraft and the gamma fix didn't exist, it would be ok.
Right now, its not worth it without the above.
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I liked night, the only problem I had with it was the black bomb sights so they looked like the ground and you couldn't see when it was on target.
But yes bring night back and the realisim with it. :)
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BRING BACK THE NIGHT TIME!
check this out:
go offline and go to arena setup.
set time to night time.
bask in the awesome display of HTC's new night time visuals.
take a screen shot.
howl at the moon.
laugh at gamma dweebs and night whiners for a few minutes.
HTC have made night time look good for AH2, it must be on the way back.
bombing is what night time in AH1 was best for 8 months ago
all the tracers and ack and exploding planes.
Gamma dweebs are lame, they just want a good rank and an easy kill.
screw em
BRING BACK NIGHT!
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can anyone truly say this doesnt turn them on??
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night2%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night7%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night6%20jpg.JPG) (http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night8%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night5%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night3%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night%20jpg.JPG)
think of the night fighter skins.
think of the bombing raids!
think of the fun.
think of how much it will piss the people who hate night off :p
BRING BACK NIGHT TIME
when you're ready HT, we definitely are
Batfink
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
30 minutes of Night is all I ask each day.
yup, thats more than enough.
maybe 2 30s though, one Euro primetime, one US primetime
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Id like to se Night and more weather!!
Clouds, rain, snow all add to tactics and flight experience.
Tex
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Id like to se Night and more weather!!
Clouds, rain, snow all add to tactics and flight experience.
Tex
clouds (depending), rain and snow all *subtract* from flight experience. planes were grounded, ya know? :rolleyes:
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No, I meant 30 minutes a day's rotation. I.E. If it takes 3 hours from dawn to dusk, there will be 30 minutes till the next dawn.
So this would happen a few times a day.
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Why don't you guys just turn down YOUR gamma? Then you can have as much night as you want.
Enjoy, and no charge for the suggestion.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
waiting for the die hard whinners to come and and say NO!.
Oh the ayernee.
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Originally posted by mechanic
can anyone truly say this doesnt turn them on??
The moonlight reflecting off the aluminum is pretty cool.
But it won't play good.
So, it might look kinda neat, but still no thanks.
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bottoms to you anti night whiners!
you want a realistic sim, yet you deny the realism that is offered.
night time was a very important aspect of WW2 air combat.
but hey, lets just all keep flying our silly little planes at each other and to hell with realism :aok
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bring on the night time:cool:
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Originally posted by mechanic
you want a realistic sim, yet you deny the realism that is offered.
Yes on a realistic physical model. No on "realistic" war.
Originally posted by mechanic
night time was a very important aspect of WW2 air combat.
So was flying for 10 hours straight and level with nothing to do.
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Originally posted by phookat
Yes on a realistic physical model. No on "realistic" war.
So was flying for 10 hours straight and level with nothing to do.
yeah, well you could try and argue the same point with me and i could come up with these simple answers you have given me. But you do not explain why you dont want night, you have just made similarities between other, tedious aspects of WW2 combat flying
night time was great fun, always for me.
just my view i suppose.
seems a shame that so many of you are just too scared to fly at night :p
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Do we have night fighters? Then why have night?
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do we have skinners? then why not have night fighters?
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Originally posted by mechanic
yeah, well you could try and argue the same point with me and i could come up with these simple answers you have given me. But you do not explain why you dont want night, you have just made similarities between other, tedious aspects of WW2 combat flying
Yeah, well, you had mentioned that night was "an important part of WW2", and I was mentioning that the importance of the thing in the real war is not a criteria by which a feature should be included. There's lots of RL things that are not here and should not be here.
Originally posted by mechanic
night time was great fun, always for me.
Why? You can't see anything. If that's fun for you, as Toad says you should turn the gamma down on your monitor. Or turn your monitor off. Win-win, right? If we had searchlights and radar-equipped planes, then maybe this would be interesting...but as it is, it is like building a solar-powered submarine.
Originally posted by mechanic
seems a shame that so many of you are just too scared to fly at night :p
Scared...no. Pointless, yes. Are you "scared" of turning off your monitor while you play?
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I got with the night time, though I do not fly MA or anything like that (only h2h) night raids sound much more exciting (done a couple of Lancaster raids myself)
..I mean, what good is a lancaster (except for heavy payload) if there's no night? It is a night bomber...
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Originally posted by mechanic
do we have skinners? then why not have night fighters?
A night fighter is more than a paint job.
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BTW, I tried turning the gamma down just to see what it was like, it didn't work.
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Night fights were fun, over CVs, with all acs shooting, was like fireworks party. In AH1 we had night at 5pm and 10PM, those hours have maximum players #s, that's why many players were upset. My vote yes, but if we don't want complais , not at hot hours with max, players#s.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
BTW, I tried turning the gamma down just to see what it was like, it didn't work.
Try a hammer. Great effect. :D
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Well ghi, the problem is that people who want to see the night also fly during max hours.
But 30 minutes every 5 hours would be cool.
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Originally posted by phookat
A night fighter is more than a paint job.
"Wild Seau"
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
"Wild Seau"
More than a paint job.
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Originally posted by Toad
Why don't you guys just turn down YOUR gamma? Then you can have as much night as you want.
Enjoy, and no charge for the suggestion.
:rolleyes:
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Can you guys configure a H2H area to be night?
My vote would be no if it applied to the entire MA. Just gives 30 minutes (or whatever) of constrained gameplay. The night graphics are interesting, but that's not enough for me.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Do we have night fighters? Then why have night?
inasmuch as all planes already have on board dar as opposed to having to rely on radio com from . In essence all planes are already night fighters. So that arguement well it doesnt fly
I enjoyed the night. had some fun fights in it. only turned the gamma up on my aging monitor to the point of the pics shown above.
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I thought the night was a good thing, and I still do. Though
instrument pannel lights and maybe formation lights would
be nice features.
On not being able to see anything, I flew a lanc formation
in the TA one night when the clock had stopped at mid-
night, the moonlight illuminated the ground just fine, bombed
with good results and shot a FW190 that was trying to sneak
up on my six.
But since night time inhibits those "just looking for a good fight"
we most likely won't get it back.
Mike
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The global dar can be destroyed easily. Each plane should have its own.
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I enjoyed flying at night. I would like to see some form of night flying again maybe in the future.
I have not tried GV's at night. That may be a difficult task to try and I would like to have a go at that as well. Always up for a challange.
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I wanted to start a new post but found this one. The new breed of AH2 folks with better graphics and PCs can enjoy this feature and benefit. It really is a great asset to Aces High. The time should mimic the previous settings and should be be consistant.
While critics of AH can say they like "this" but do not like "that", as consumers, we need to voice our opinions and let HTC know what is good and right by the majority. I may not like a map or plane skin, but this is the forum for that. I don't like a few people complaining that they don't like the night and then it gets removed. What percentage of folks was this? Are they H2H or paying customers? While I would hate to see it every squad night, I invite it and accept it as a realistic and true test of flight and stealth. I have, and will praise HTC for creating this feature and benefit.
I consider the night like the bullet hole above my head, the fire on my wing, the fuel leak leaving a trail, the oil leak doing the same, or covering my windscreen, and the blackout, the spins, the bloody mess in the cockpit, and the bottle of booze under my seat! The landing gear that breaks, or is missing, the carrier that turns as I am taking off or landing, and landing a few kills that say I accomplished something and the world now knows it.
Do I want the night, you bet I do! I have tried to be a voice and force to encourage it. But I am just one lonely pielet!
HiTech (Dale) please reinstitute a policy to bring back the night. 30 minutes, or 1 hour doesn't matter to me, just reinstate it and make it another feature and benefit for us to enjoy, relish, and hate, if need be. ( I hate dying-can you stop that?? :D )
It's one of the greatest parts of AH that I can say that is a cut above anything else out there!
No matter what, HTC is a great service oriented company and I feel like they go the extra mile to please folks. I have no complaints and no axe to grind. Well, I have one, HT called me a "Dolt" during the Open-Beta testing for AH2 :) Go figure! My version of Websters still cannot resolve this! :D
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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No.
curly
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Originally posted by ghi
In AH1 we had night at 5pm and 10PM, those hours have maximum players #s, that's why many players were upset
I don't know if that was ever the case, but all the time I have been in AH1 it was a 13-hour cycle, so that the night period shifted each day. An AH day starts at 0600 and ends at 1800 - that's 12 hours. The night starts at 1800, warps from 1830 to 0530, and ends at 0600, so that's a total of 13 hours. I don't know where you get 5 hours from. :) PS - I vote for a return of the Night! :aok
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I agree with bringing back the night.
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If they say they're "just looking for a good fight", then why not bring night back?
Night-time brings out the best (or worst) in a pilot. It keeps you on your toes.
Weather conditions, such as stratus clouds, complete overcast, or thunderstorms do the same, although they don't decrease visibility as much.
Again, bring back night and weather. They've been missing for far too long.
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The problem is continuity.
Some "realism", just ain't fun.
For instance, why not lay out the bases in realistic distances? Because, nobody is going to play thing game to fly for 3 hours to get to the destination. If gets bounced on his way, he'll have to get up hundreds of kilometers away, and fly some more hours, to ever see enemy presence.
Likewise, "night time" sounds exotic and fun.
However, the moment it is embedded as a regular element in gameplay people soon come to realize that it sucks. Night time is a day for a handful of specialized planes in real life. All day fighters and normal operations cease action in the night. At night, people go to sleep.
Soon, after having to fly in nighttime everyday, staring at the empty nothingness of the black sky, seeing people log off, turn their gamma way up... you begin to question, "is this worth it?"
..
The people already answered that question long time ago. Night time was introduced into AH because people thought it would be cool. Few months later, they started regretting it.
Maybe a night time every once a week.. something like that might work. But having night time as a regular part of MA sucks. It just makes a classic case of "becareful what you wish for".
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Soon, after having to fly in nighttime everyday, staring at the empty nothingness of the black sky, seeing people log off, turn their gamma way up... you begin to question, "is this worth it?"
Is it worth it? ****in A! it is! It's gotten to the point where we don't care if people turn their gamma up. I don't care if another person has to cheat to be satisfied. Some of the best times in AH ever were flying at night.
Maybe a night time every once a week.. something like that might work. But having night time as a regular part of MA sucks. It just makes a classic case of "becareful what you wish for".
Not everyone has a schedule that can show up on this night. If we miss it, we're just humped, especially if we have to miss it again.
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The first time i ever saw night i thought "Wow, this looks so cool!" It soon wore off. It got to the stage where i would log off if night appeared, so did many others- i detest night. I don't find it remotely fun spending up to an hour flying and not being able to see anything to fight. To be blunt- night is plain boring.
Perhaps if there were night fighters i would change my mind. In it's current state it is pointless and boring.
Lasersailor, how about turning down your brightness and gamma instead.
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Originally posted by thrila
Perhaps if there were night fighters i would change my mind.
Woo Hoo! Now yer talking. :aok
:D
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In the beginning, there was no night.
People begged and groveled to HT to give us night time in the MA. So, HT did it.
After a while, people began to absolutely hate it. People clinged to HT and begged to get rid of the night. Many years later, finally, the night was removed from the MA.
Believe me. There's a reason why we're shaking our heads to the idea.
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Hmm, I dont want the night back.
Although I dont mind the night itself, I dont like it when its night and the Arena is almost empty. Although there is always a minority (dont argue, you are :p) that like the night in AH, most ppl dont and they log off.
If you dont mind ppl turn up thier gamma, then why not opt for an option in setup to replace day by night on your FE. So you can fly in darkness whene everyone else sees you crystal-clear. OK, bad idea, I know, but what should we do to not let the majority log off when night falls in AH-Land?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The problem is continuity.
The people already answered that question long time ago. Night time was introduced into AH because people thought it would be cool. Few months later, they started regretting it.
However, the moment it is embedded as a regular element in gameplay people soon come to realize that it sucks.
Maybe a night time every once a week.. something like that might work. But having night time as a regular part of MA sucks. It just makes a classic case of "becareful what you wish for".
With all due respects,
Your speaking for yourself and others that feel as you do. Not the community as a whole.
I remember when night was here and I remember when it was disabled to "Put the whines on the other side of the fence"
Each tme the subject was brought up there were just as many people arguing for night as there were against it.
Not everyone thought thought it "sucked". Certainly not a huge majority of those that post on the boards. The issue was and pretty much still is an even split.
I know I certainly never thought it sucked. I thought it was one of the more cooler aspects of the game. and I never had my gamma turned up anywhere near to the point where it would be considered near daylight conditions.
Actually if you couldnt see anything during night time odds are your gamma was set wrong to begin with and only needed a minor adjustment to make it night yet still have things visable just as they were ment to be.
Now maybe some adjustments could have been made to the amount of time is was night. but I liked it. And certainly dont find it as much as a pain as I find say.. the way the sun is slightly overdone now. And getting rid of either altogether was, and is a bit on the drastic side
Yea some folks would log off when darkness came. But hardly what would be considered significant numbers. and 99 times out of 100 they came right back as soon as the sun came up again.
These folks mostly (not all) are people who are of the "If your not gonnna play the game MY way Im gonna take my ball and go home" pouting type.
Well fine, Go. See ya when the sun shines.
I'd like to see night back. Maybe they could adjust it so it doent happen as frequently or for as long as it used to so to apease a greater segment of the players. Say once a night for 2/3,s of the time it was.
It would also give bases a chance to lick their wounds and resupply and/or to counter that horde offencive with an attack of their own.
I say bring back the night. and those that wish to take their ball and go home , well let em go.
tjhey will only be missed for as long as it takes to get into the next fight anyway.
And they will be back when the sun shines.
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Originally posted by Purzel
Hmm, I dont want the night back.
Although I dont mind the night itself, I dont like it when its night and the Arena is almost empty. Although there is always a minority (dont argue, you are :p) that like the night in AH, most ppl dont and they log off.
If you dont mind ppl turn up thier gamma, then why not opt for an option in setup to replace day by night on your FE. So you can fly in darkness whene everyone else sees you crystal-clear. OK, bad idea, I know, but what should we do to not let the majority log off when night falls in AH-Land?
Gross overstatment on both counts. Just like with pizza what I did see was the same people whining over and over and over again making it seem like there was alot more then there really were
And I NEVER saw the arena almost emplty. ever.
Some people loged off yes. But not anywhere near the numbers where anyone could honestly say is was "most of the people."
An these very same people that logged off came right back when the sun rose
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No to night, yes to weather.
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YES to night!
Oh, and YES to weather too, btw... hehehe
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no
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No.
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No
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Yes - Night time
(staggered rotation during week, doesn't have to be a daily event, ya weenies)
Yes - Weather
(water streaks on windscreen are surely better than oil streaks)
<in best andy rooney voice>
Didyouevernotice that the sun is blinding when you look straight at it?
Good grief, if that's acceptable, why not periodic bouts of weather and darkness? Weenies :rolleyes:
Chance2
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Look at it this way.
Day time doesn't force some people to log off.
Night time forces most people to logg off.
Two sides are into argument, one side's suggestion doesn't hurt the other, the other side's suggestion hurts the former.
Which do you think is logical to expect?
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I find night flying much more fun than daylight flying. It adds challenge. It adds some varietyl
Yes, many people log off. Then again, many idiots used to blather endlessly on channel 1. That doesn't make it good for the community.
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I remember night...was abuncha people cursing and logging off because they couldnt SEE anything---aside from Lancasters egging cities, damned little happened at night in the air...and if ya adjust gamma to compensate, then YOU arent flyin at night either--the peeps who win the fights have the best gamma adjustments....buncha bs...on other hand, is a good way to populate the CT arena
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Look at it this way.
Day time doesn't force some people to log off.
Night time forces most people to logg off.
Two sides are into argument, one side's suggestion doesn't hurt the other, the other side's suggestion hurts the former.
Which do you think is logical to expect?
Look at it this way........they logged off. They didn't stop playing AH, HTC didn't lose a customer, it didn't "hurt" anyone "significantly", and those numbers that do log off are not as significant as you may think. I tend to log after a couple of hours of getting beat up like a redheaded step child in daylight too! Make HT turn off the "KILL" on "KKEN" then I will agree to NO NIGHT Fair enough? Lemme see, then I want to always land successfully-from anywhere even in a chute, I want unlimited ammo, unlimited fuel, no charge or perkies-for any plane or vehicle I want, and if I get a buff or goon within a sector of any target-I get an automatic capture, or every bomb is a direct hit and it kills the town and all hangers. Oh yes, my planes cannot be damaged by anything either...... can I get that too? And on squad night, the Cutthroats will always reset the arena 2 times.....by ourselves-it's a must.
That is a lot to hope for, I know. But if you can get HT to grant me those wishes, chances are my whole squad would leave because winning isn't always expected and then there is no challenge. And by the way, I get killed just as much or more at night, but it's is equally as fun and more !!
This isn't EA or Nintendo.....thank COD!
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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Originally posted by bj229r
on other hand, is a good way to populate the CT arena
Yes, that's about the extent of it.
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Yes to both...please.
(http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/nighthurri.jpg)
No gamma adjustment ^
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I just LOVE the way people use the term "Most people" to try to artificially strengthen and justify their arguement on subjects.
It always amuses me because reguardless of subject
99.999 times out of 100 it isnt true. It is nothing more then pure fallacy.
A handful of people is not "most people"
20,30,40 or even 50 people are NOT "Most people"
Hell during primetime hours even 100 people are not "most people"
And I have never seen 100 people log off due to night, pizza or any other reason other then perhaps a mass boot caused by a server crash.
Back when there was night during primetime hours there were on average about 120-150 players per country.
Even at the low end that 360 people.
In order to be a majority and thus "most of the people" at LEAST 181 would have to log off.
And thats never ever happened. other then by mass disco.
And Certainly not due to night.
So this whole claim of "most people" is a load of...
Well you know.
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I'm so sick and tired of people whining about night! Bring back night, letem whine. They have a choice to play at a different time when night is gone, just like they have the choice to leave the game.
Dangit you night whiners! All you want to do is dogfight!
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While not accurate, I counted a possible 11 folks who say NO to the night. This number included a H2H player and I would like someone to do a re-count on the YES voters. (and NO voters as well) I may have counted a player more than once. Certainly this forum and this thread may be consistant with the "actual" numbers and percentage of folks who want or do NOT want the night. I also gave credit to the person who said "10 minutes only" as a NO. I have to be fair, and so does this topic. I am now going to push for a consensus of the Cutthroats, and all other squads that I know to push HTC to bring back the night. RJO included! I feel this strongly about this issue. Scenarios need to be written and conceived with this in mind, as well. The Brits did night time buff raids and the US did the daytime low level buff runs at a dear price. Night time is realistic and a part of war. And this is WAR!
If scenarios include the night, and I hope they will, then we need the night to hone our skills in the MA too.
One of the coolest scenarios was Midway.....I flew Jap and we took off at dawn.....very dark, sunrising in the east and in our faces, and it was a glorious event! Of course, I sacrificed myself for the emperor!
Think of the future in AH2...... V-1 buzz bombs hurling towards London at night, Spits upping to engage with the early P51s. Search lights scanning the skies.........air raid air raid...........(inserts sirens) OH the carnage......and all at night!
So if you just want to dogfight, go to the DA or the CT. If you want realism, make it available for all, and on a regular basis. I'd say too, set the MA up as Europe for a random option and then a pacific theater too. The maps already exist. Rotate them in and include the night too. Sadly, only 2 countries are available-probably a better CT thing, but exposing the MA to this may bring more to scenarios and the CT too. The third country in this scenario (in the MA) would default to the country with the least assets. Axis or Allies. I am sure this can be accomplished. Just some thinking aloud and thoughts for reference.
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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Originally posted by K-KEN
And this is WAR!
No.
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I agree with bring back night. Not to making the MA into Axis vs Allies. I think it is fine the way it is( looking at maps and teams).
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Again K-ken, the scenarios you mentioned all, or nearly all, involved bombers, which practically noone flies anymore (for norden drops anyway), and when they do, they rarely hit cites, etc anyhow, as it has no effect on game....they dont HAVE V1's in here, and they required no human anyhow, whether day or night..and were they in here, noone would give a watermelon if there were comin into town/city anyhow. For better or worse (worse, imo) most the folks in AH play to furball/vultch..and ya cant even vultch unless a decent moon is out..mostly everyone just *****es..goes afk for night, or logs
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Originally posted by bj229r
Again K-ken, the scenarios you mentioned all, or nearly all, involved bombers, which practically noone flies anymore (for norden drops anyway), and when they do, they rarely hit cites, etc anyhow, as it has no effect on game....they dont HAVE V1's in here, and they required no human anyhow, whether day or night..and were they in here, noone would give a watermelon if there were comin into town/city anyhow. For better or worse (worse, imo) most the folks in AH play to furball/vultch..and ya cant even vultch unless a decent moon is out..mostly everyone just *****es..goes afk for night, or logs
Last night I had a full wing of buffs-maybe 10 formations, in on a base I was at. No one flies buffs? Tell those folks that.....! They killed the base and the town! I also stated that....in the Future there would/could be V-1s. Please re-read the post. HT can create them as a random event and if we have a european map, London could be the target. I think this would be awesome. And by the way, we can still have 3 countries Brits, Germans and Italy, or France........or the US-did I forget the Soviets?? "Tear Down that wall, Mr Gorbechoff..."(sp) Oh my-that's 5 or 6....sorry! Imagine the possibilities, be free thinking and let your imagination run wild. Do you want to limit yourself to dogfights at high noon?? I am 56 years old and I want to see and feel and enjoy the experience of Aces High 2 and be a partner in it's existance and it's growth and future! Don't limit the possibilities!
You do a dis-service to the community with that limited thinking.
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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I like buffs too..more than fighters, but I'm just relying what I see/have seen---danged few peeps talked positively about night, when it was still goin on..that's why Hitech trashed it
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just fyi. adjusting gamma damages the monitor. that is directly for skuzzy.
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Originally posted by bj229r
mostly everyone just *****es..goes afk for night, or logs
Pure and complete nonsence
Refer to my post above
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
just fyi. adjusting gamma damages the monitor. that is directly for skuzzy.
Yes it does. When you go to extremes.
Minor adjustments will not damage it. Thats the whole reason for the adjustments being made available.
the monitor when packed/shipped may have had its adjustments either not done correctly or have had them knocked out of whack during the shipping process.
Also things like child ack may effect them
Also picture quality and brightness will degrade on a monitor over time making these adjustments necessary.
Programs that include night Im sure are written in a way so that assuming the users monitor is adjusted properly, while the effect of night is acheived things are still visable during the night hence the moonlight should be giving a harvest moon type effect where its still night but you can still very well see.
If thats not the effect you have. your monitor is probably in need of MINOR adjustment.
And that doesnt man making it look like 12 noon on a bright sunny day.
THAT will ruin your monitor
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Night with searchlights, night fighters and exploding fuzed ack:aok
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BRING BACK THE NIGHT!!!!
just wanted to punt. :aok :D
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Ever wonder why the lower surfaces of a Lanc are darkly colored and not sky blue or light grey? Bring back the night! More people seemed to use Lancs for level medium to high alt bombing runs on strats and ports, etc, during the night. And flying as a night fighter was a blast while hunting them down. Everything about the night was cool. I'm all for bringing it back. It would have to be at least 30min in duration though to be of any real use. Think of the possibilities for night GV raids and such with the new terrain features! Scary fun to be had by all. Here's to the night.
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If you say you couldn't see at night in the MA on AH1 with no gamma adjustment, you have either mental problems (spoiled brats, usually), or you have eye problems, and as such shouldn't be staring at a monitor for hours on end each day.
Bunch of whining wusses.
Hey, when I played AH1 last year, I remember loving night time. Along with that, I usually saw about 390 people logged on during night mode on a good day (when about 630 would normally be on).
Night mode in AH1 had just as many people on as AHII does on a good day.
Night mode's not fun, eh?
Well, judging by your (lame) statements about night mode, licking the floor of an unclean public bathroom would be more fun.
You people just get your way too often.
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Originally posted by Fruda
Night-time brings out the best (or worst) in a pilot. It keeps you on your toes.
Or in my case it makes me log off.
Hated the night time. And it always seemed to happen at the only time i had an opportunity to fly after work in the summer.
NO.
Originally posted by Fruda
If you say you couldn't see at night in the MA on AH1 with no gamma adjustment, you have either mental problems (spoiled brats, usually), or you have eye problems, and as such shouldn't be staring at a monitor for hours on end each day.
Fact is the ATI card i was using in the AH1 days had little to no effect on lightning up the arena at full seting.
BTW.... Try a little manners in your posting. It is so much more interesting that way.
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night time would be amazing.
you're all just too cowardly to accept it.
everyone goes on about 'dweeb' rides and 'you need more of a challenge'.
well here it is, a challenge, and you are scared of facing this challenge.
have you seen how good HT has made night look now??
its sweet!
you're all wussy cry baby girly gamers. :p
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night2%20jpg.JPG)
this pic has had no gamma editing or PS effects (although i made a non-historical night skin for the spit 5). you telling me you cant see that pony 2k away down there?
girly girly girly girls. all of you.
you are all ruining the game for those who want more realism.
you complain when its not an even fight.
you whine when anything doesnt go your way.
you moan that night time 'is not necessary'
you are all seriously boring and obviously just want to prove how great you are to us all by gaining maximum kills/death in the shortest time possible, with the least effort and challenge possible. I am willing to bet the majority of anti-nighters are people who log on once a week for 20 mins.
most of the pro-nighters are the ones with more time online than off. we are keeping the numbers up in the MA, we deserve our satisfaction.
i know old age pensioners with more fighting spirit.
Batfink
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this game is 100% furball arena now (hence DA is dead) so HTC wont listen to night calls. or fix anything to do with buffs.
its all fighter fighter fighter.
the all round sim i once loved is gone :(
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I don't necessarily want more realism. I want what was the most fun aspect of the entire game. Night time was when I had some of my most brilliant fights. Even though I got destroyed most of the time, I would re up and get right back out there. It was so much fun.
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this game is 100% furball arena now (hence DA is dead) so HTC wont listen to night calls. or fix anything to do with buffs.
its all fighter fighter fighter.
the all round sim i once loved is gone
Yup.
If it wasn't for the larger cities, buffs would be pretty much redundant now. Even then 3 or 4 110's can destroy a city.
Double hardness and no partially down HQs didn't help buff drivers either. Very little reward to be gained for buff drivers now, I kinda feel sorry for them.
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The only thing amazing about night time is the stupid "fantasies" revolving around it.
There's always these band of people who think doing the bizarre, unusual, unlikely, and untypical stuff is somehow gonna bring loads of exotic fun.
Well, it's not. What it does is add 15 minutes of non-flying time the arena, plus additional 1 hour of heavy dusk/dawn where things are barely visible.
And don't drag realism into this.
Everything in a game is selective realism. Unless there is some fundamental reason to absoultely try and hold on to reality(such as limited ammo, realistic FM, no external views and etc.) all other realism issues are for compromise with game play.
Having day time all day long does not make anyone log off. Having a night time does. Be it 10 guys or 100 guys.
This forced, warped definition of "realism" does not help anything. You guys wanna talk about reality of night time in the real war? How large do you think the average portion of night fighter squadrons were, compared to normal day-time fighters?
At night, day time pilots and planes rest. It's "night". You aren't supposed to see anything without a radar mechanism. And as much, you barely see anything in thr MA.
Except, the MA has AWACS for all fighters, and provides icons for all planes. There's no such thing as a specialized night fighter in the MA.
So, what are we gonna do at night? Use the same planes we do at day time, to fly the same way, in doing the same stuff - the only difference is, at night you can't see anything, and the frustration factor overwhelms the fun factor.
If there were something done to the dar systems, so there would be some real night fighters, with their own type of game play that distinctly differs from day time fighters - then having night time would make sense.
However, since it ain't that way, we gonna use same planes to do the same stuff we do at day time, and we're gonna start to hate it because it is what it is - it sucks.
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Agree with a lot of what you say Kweassa.
But weren't the orginal night fighters just day fighters painted differently?
Not advocating realism, AH2 gets further away from realism with each gameplay alteration.
Think part of it is the fact that what little strategic side to the game there was has all but gone.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Agree with a lot of what you say Kweassa.
But weren't the orginal night fighters just day fighters painted differently?
Not advocating realism, AH2 gets further away from realism with each gameplay alteration.
Think part of it is the fact that what little strategic side to the game there was has all but gone.
hence people are leaving.....
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Can you say Bovine Scat.
There we go. I knew you could:)
Originally posted by Kweassa
The only thing amazing about night time is the stupid "fantasies" revolving around it.
There's always these band of people who think doing the bizarre, unusual, unlikely, and untypical stuff is somehow gonna bring loads of exotic fun.
Well, it's not. What it does is add 15 minutes of non-flying time the arena, plus additional 1 hour of heavy dusk/dawn where things are barely visible.
And don't drag realism into this.
Everything in a game is selective realism. Unless there is some fundamental reason to absoultely try and hold on to reality(such as limited ammo, realistic FM, no external views and etc.) all other realism issues are for compromise with game play.
Having day time all day long does not make anyone log off. Having a night time does. Be it 10 guys or 100 guys.
This forced, warped definition of "realism" does not help anything. You guys wanna talk about reality of night time in the real war? How large do you think the average portion of night fighter squadrons were, compared to normal day-time fighters?
At night, day time pilots and planes rest. It's "night". You aren't supposed to see anything without a radar mechanism. And as much, you barely see anything in thr MA.
Except, the MA has AWACS for all fighters, and provides icons for all planes. There's no such thing as a specialized night fighter in the MA.
So, what are we gonna do at night? Use the same planes we do at day time, to fly the same way, in doing the same stuff - the only difference is, at night you can't see anything, and the frustration factor overwhelms the fun factor.
If there were something done to the dar systems, so there would be some real night fighters, with their own type of game play that distinctly differs from day time fighters - then having night time would make sense.
However, since it ain't that way, we gonna use same planes to do the same stuff we do at day time, and we're gonna start to hate it because it is what it is - it sucks.
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Agreed
quote:
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Agree with a lot of what you say Kweassa.
But weren't the orginal night fighters just day fighters painted differently?
Not advocating realism, AH2 gets further away from realism with each gameplay alteration.
Think part of it is the fact that what little strategic side to the game there was has all but gone.
Originally posted by Overlag
hence people are leaving.....
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You want "realism" ? ... you want night time ?
Ok ... HTC needs to develop "real" night planes that did and could operate at night. A paint job does not make a night fighter, it only helps concel them. They will need their own on-board radar.
Once the sun sets, ALL radar is disabled in the areana, and ALL icons are shut off. Then at that point, the only planes that can see dot-dar (when in "real" operating radar range) and icons are the "real" planes that did and could operate at night. Doesn't that sound like fun !!!
Maybe some of you real history afficianados can enlighten us.
How many "real" WW II aces scored kills at night ?
How many of them actually engaged in dogfighting at night ?
How many dogfighting kills did Yeager, Bong, Boyington score in the pitch dark of night ?
How many dogfighting kills did the German aces score in the pitch dark of night ?
How many P-51s, N1Ks, Spitfires, La-7s, 109s, 190s, F4-Us, P-47s, 202s, 205s, P-38s, F6-Fs, FM2s, A6Ms, and 262s were equipped with night time radar that would allow them to dogfight effectively ?
Could one, during WW II, effectively dogfight at night ? ... or was night time flying only done for reconnasance and bombing purposes ?
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You "I love night/ I want night back" guys just turn your gamma down till it's dark enough for you.
Play like that as long as you like.
Move along now; absolutely nothing new in this thread.
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Slapshot - Who's talking about realism, I certainly wasn't.
Realistically we really shouldn't have the amount of info from DAR we get anyway. Very little of the world had radar coverage to our extent in WW2.
Realistically airfields didn't always have 75% fuel.
Realistically aircraft didn't burn fuel at 2x normal rate.
etc etc.
I am sure the guys who did fight at night might object to not being classed as 'real' aces.
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If there is any way to get a P-61 out of this I'm all for it :P
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Slapshot - Who's talking about realism, I certainly wasn't.
Realistically we really shouldn't have the amount of info from DAR we get anyway. Very little of the world had radar coverage to our extent in WW2.
Realistically airfields didn't always have 75% fuel.
Realistically aircraft didn't burn fuel at 2x normal rate.
etc etc.
I am sure the guys who did fight at night might object to not being classed as 'real' aces.
Kev ... the whole point is ... Did they actually dogfight in the pitch of night during WW II ? I say no ... the reason being cause you cant see JACK-SQAUT at night. Would they take the chance of losing a whole squad of P-51s to mid-air collisions with their own squaddies or the enemy? I don't think so.
Any WW II films or pictures that I see, that take place in compete darkness are bombers making their runs in the cover of darkness, or some funky looking plane that has all sorts of antenni all over it doing a reconasance run or hunting bombers.
Neither the bombers, nor the funky planes appear to be able to put up much of a dogfight. Wasn't the P-61 a bomber hunter ? It would locate the bombers and then blindside them ? If so, did they ever encounter 190 or 109 escorts and then get into a dogfight with them in the pitch dark ?
I fail to believe that the Tuskeegee airmen escorted bombers in the pitch black of night, waiting to encounter sqauds of FWs or MEs trying to intercept the bombers.
Come on ... where are the history buffs ? They can shed some light on this ... pun intended.
Unless the real nuances (or close to it) can be brought forth in AH, then night time is nothing but a nuisance.
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and thats where the problem lies, you seem to think AH is only a dogfighting game...........
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Actually night fighting in its infancy was carried out using plain standard aircraft with only a different paint job.
Hurri 2c, Mossies and Spits. Admitedly the vast majority were buff intercepts.
Wasn't until later on that they started fitting a crude airborne radar to some.
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Originally posted by Overlag
and thats where the problem lies, you seem to think AH is only a dogfighting game...........
No Overlag ... I don't ... you didn't read all that I wrote.
I am saying that their were very specific planes that flew at night and from what I have seen, none of them are dogfighters.
If we were to have night, then only those planes that could SEE at night would be the only planes that could see dot-dar or icons.
So take a P-51 or a 109 into the pitch dark ... blind ... and lets see how much fun you will have ... otherwise take a plane that was truly equipped to fly in pitch darkness, which I believe leaves you with bombers, reconnaissance, or bomber hunters which is what you truly would have run into during WW II IMO.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Actually night fighting in its infancy was carried out using plain standard aircraft with only a different paint job.
Hurri 2c, Mossies and Spits. Admitedly the vast majority were buff intercepts.
Wasn't until later on that they started fitting a crude airborne radar to some.
Actually night fighting in its infancy was carried out using plain standard aircraft with only a different paint job.
OK .. I will believe that, but I would also believe that they FAILED miserably.
Admitedly the vast majority were buff intercepts.
I believe that they were all buff hunters. Know one in their right mind ... axis or allied ... went looking for dogfights in the pitch of night.
Wasn't until later on that they started fitting a crude airborne radar to some.
I wonde why ? Cause the pilots in those plain standard aircraft with a different paint job said ... ain't no way I am going back up there ... it's like flying with my eyes closed ... I can't see a bloody thing mate.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
No Overlag ... I don't ... you didn't read all that I wrote.
I am saying that their were very specific planes that flew at night and from what I have seen, none of them are dogfighters.
If we were to have night, then only those planes that could SEE at night would be the only planes that could see dot-dar or icons.
So take a P-51 or a 109 into the pitch dark ... blind ... and lets see how much fun you will have ... otherwise take a plane that was truly equipped to fly in pitch darkness, which I believe leaves you with bombers, reconnaissance, or bomber hunters which is what you truly would have run into during WW II IMO.
yes but you are basicaly saying we shouldnt have night because theres no dogfighting at night...what about all other parts of this game?
Originally posted by SlapShot
axis or allied ... went looking for dogfights in the pitch of night.
so you dont want night simply because you cant dog fight?
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Did a quick check -
The two highest scoring night fighter aces got 20 each, one in a standard Hurricane 2c, the other in a Mosquito.
Flight Lieutenant Karel Kuttelwascher, Hurri (includes 4xBf109's!)
Incidently his C.O. Squadron Leader James MacLachian got 5, and he only had one arm.
Branse A. Burbridge, Mosquito, 20 out of 21 at night.
But of course these aren't real aces.
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hell, lets just give everyone unlimited ammo and supercharged engines, wouldnt that make it more fun at the price of realism too?
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SlapShot
You want "realism" ? ... you want night time ?
Maybe some of you real history afficianados can enlighten us.
How many "real" WW II aces scored kills at night ?
How many of them actually engaged in dogfighting at night ?
How many dogfighting kills did Yeager, Bong, Boyington score in the pitch dark of night ?
How many dogfighting kills did the German aces score in the pitch dark of night ?
How many P-51s, N1Ks, Spitfires, La-7s, 109s, 190s, F4-Us, P-47s, 202s, 205s, P-38s, F6-Fs, FM2s, A6Ms, and 262s were equipped with night time radar that would allow them to dogfight effectively ?
Could one, during WW II, effectively dogfight at night ? ... or was night time flying only done for reconnasance and bombing purposes ?
Good questions Slap, but they have the common thread that indicates a preference for dogfighting. The basic answer is simple: there was probably very little, if any, "dogfighting" during night engagements. The reason is also simple. Most of the kills were made by interceptors against bombers that were attempting to use the cover of night to achieve concealement and surprise.
There is one fact that you are overlooking when comparing a dogfighting experience online with what happened in WW2. The vast majority (greater than 80%) of air-to-air kills were made without "dogfighting." That is, most aircraft were shot down from an unseen attacker and were not in maneuvering flight. This includes day and night.
The AH community is a collection of folks that have a diverse view about what creates a fun online combat experience. There are many pilots who prefer to fly bombers, attack missions, and ground vehicles. These other groups can benefit greatly during night time operations. We lost the night mostly because of the complaints from dogfighters. (In my view there was a very small group of very vocal pilots that created a lot of anti-night posts). Some of these people left the game when AH2 made their online dogfighting experience less satisfying than it had been.
So in response to the original thread title, I would vote to bring night back to the MA.
MiG
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yes but you are basicaly saying we shouldnt have night because theres no dogfighting at night...what about all other parts of this game?
No ... I am saying that if we have night, then it should, within reason, emulate what took place at night. I asert that the majority of sorties, at night, in WW II, were either bomber, bomber hunting, or reconnaissance sorties. So ... if night comes back, those are the choices that we will really have, if you want to fly effectively.
If you take up a P-51/P-38/P-47/F4-U and think that you are gonna go on JABO run, then you must go with no radar and no icons. Those that do have night capable planes, will be able to see you (you will not see them) and trash you at will.
Sounds like fun ?
I am not a bomber guy ... I have nothing against those who are, and have much respect for them, but as far as I am concerned, they are the only ones that really have a mission when it come to night flying.
They know their target, they follow their waypoints, deliver their load, and RTB.
If we had night capable bomber hunters, then they could try and find the needle in the haystack and try to destroy it. Outside of that, any and all planes were basically useless and dangerous to themselves and anyone they flew near to.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Did a quick check -
The two highest scoring night fighter aces got 20 each, one in a standard Hurricane 2c, the other in a Mosquito.
Flight Lieutenant Karel Kuttelwascher, Hurri (includes 4xBf109's!)
Incidently his C.O. Squadron Leader James MacLachian got 5, and he only had one arm.
Branse A. Burbridge, Mosquito, 20 out of 21 at night.
But of course these aren't real aces.
Thanks for the info Kev !!!
With that, I could again surmise that fighters at night were scarce and not anywhere near the norm.
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Good questions Slap, but they have the common thread that indicates a preference for dogfighting. The basic answer is simple: there was probably very little, if any, "dogfighting" during night engagements. The reason is also simple. Most of the kills were made by interceptors against bombers that were attempting to use the cover of night to achieve concealement and surprise.
OK ... so there was not much dogfighting at night and those that did fly at night were specially equipped planes. They were basically bomber hunters ... were they not ? How many of these planes do we have available to us in the MA ? ... none is the answer I think.
When these bomber hunters (say the P-61) found the bombers, did they encounter 109 or 190 escorts ... I don't think so. If so, then they didn't last long ... this to me would be suicide.
The AH community is a collection of folks that have a diverse view about what creates a fun online combat experience. There are many pilots who prefer to fly bombers, attack missions, and ground vehicles. These other groups can benefit greatly during night time operations. We lost the night mostly because of the complaints from dogfighters. (In my view there was a very small group of very vocal pilots that created a lot of anti-night posts). Some of these people left the game when AH2 made their online dogfighting experience less satisfying than it had been.
I disagree ... look at what is available in the hanger. Is there not an overwhelming choice of "fighter" planes there ? What does that leave us when night falls.
Again, if night were to "really" be implemented and only those specially equipped planes had "eyes", the rest are blind (no dot-dar, no icons), could you imagine the amount of whineage that would take place.
Do you think that all these so-called "fighter jocks" would gladly jump into a bomber or a GV when the sun set ? I don't think so.
I want to fly my P-51 at night, but I can see a damn thing ... I want my dot-dar back and I want icons back or I QUIT ... stomp stomp stomp ... you are punishing me !!!
If ya want night, then make it night as I have explained ... I will gladly participate in my P-61, but until then, night is useless and if not the most non-realistic parameter in all of Aces High.
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why does the plane need to be radar equiped?
i dunno if you noticed but theres a instant radar already in AH, just like that is realistic. oh and we have icons that totaly remove the consealment of darkness.
what i cant understand is we are asking for 1hour of darkness (2x30) yet you lot dont want it, instead opting for 24hours of sunlight. Why is one small hour such a problem? and most people will only see 30minutes of night a day...
id understand all this anti night whines if we was 12hours of night we was asking for.
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Originally posted by Overlag
why does the plane need to be radar equiped?
i dunno if you noticed but theres a instant radar already in AH, just like that is realistic. oh and we have icons that totaly remove the consealment of darkness.
what i cant understand is we are asking for 1hour of darkness (2x30) yet you lot dont want it, instead opting for 24hours of sunlight. Why is one small hour such a problem? and most people will only see 30minutes of night a day...
id understand all this anti night whines if we was 12hours of night we was asking for.
I don't know about you, but when we did have night, on my monitor (no gamma tweakin'), I was simply chasing a red icon around.
I could hardly make out the plane (which is the way its supposed to be) and a headache would soon follow cause my mind was constantly trying to compensate and form a plane silouette where I assumed the plane to be in correspondence to the positon of the icon ... visualization is what is called, I believe.
That was chasing a fighter. Chasing a bomber is different and didn't cause the same effect. So if we have night and I am in a P-61 hunting bombers with my on-board radar ... I would be cool with that, cause I know that it won't be doing any wild and crazy evasives.
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No to night.
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Slap, that's hipocritical. You're calling for utter realism during night, but you'll freak out if someone changes anything during the day.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Slap, that's hipocritical. You're calling for utter realism during night, but you'll freak out if someone changes anything during the day.
LOL ... hypocritical ... show me where I have freaked out ever, over any change.
I am not really asking for "utter realism" ... I am saying that night is simply not a very very dark day and fighters simply did not operate at night as a norm.
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Seems like all the whiners are hypocrites.
Let's see... I was told by one whiner that I needed to be "polite" in my counter-******* post. Be more polite, you say?
Why don't YOU people start being more polite, and quit WHINING and ruining AHII.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Actually night fighting in its infancy was carried out using plain standard aircraft with only a different paint job.
Hurri 2c, Mossies and Spits. Admitedly the vast majority were buff intercepts.
Wasn't until later on that they started fitting a crude airborne radar to some.
Wouldn't call radar crude...since military technology has be stagnated...Radar has not changed much at all..it's still pretty crude. Still can't see ****
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"Between mid-January and the end of July 1942, JG54 Bf109's shot down 56 enemy aircraft during the hours of darkness."
-Osprey Bf109 Aces of the Russian Front
The kills described above were the direct result of an initiative by Geschwaderkommodore Hannes Trautloft, who proposed that selected pilots should take off on bright moonlit nights and circle low over the snowy landscape of the Lake Ilmen area, ready to pounce on any unwary Soviet bombers. The fighters sortied carried no radar. These were front line "day" fighter units and they relied on moonlight, snowy landscape, good eyesight, proper positioning and the element of suprise.
The highest JG54 night scorer during this time period had 16 kills. Haupt. Reinhard Seiler. Next was Oblt Gunther Fink with 9. Haupt Seiler's final tally was 96 kills with 16 of those being at night...and he wasn't even in a night fighter unit.
Obviously night operations were carried out by day fighters on occasions such as the 6 month period described above. I'm sure somebody can find some sort of record of night operations for other "day fighter" units as well. Especially in records pertaining to early to mid-war actions. Maybe even some defense of the Reich sorties of day fighters flown at night?
For AH, it's not necessary to have a dedicated night fighter with on board radar set and heavier armament in order to night fight. Day fighters could and did operate at night. So should we be able to.
Kill levels may be lower at night, and maybe people don't like landing a sortie empty handed from time to time. But it's not completely accurate to say that day fighters did not fight at night with any regularity. 6 months is a fairly large chunk of time out the average life expectancy of a fighter pilot. And that's just taking into account night operations as officially ordered for JG54 during the first part of 1942.
There are other accounts of "early risers" starting patrols at 2:30 or 3:30am from front line bases along the Eastern Front and returning before or with the dawn. So if they spotted an enemy plane in the wee hours of the morning, did they radio it back to hq and ask to have a night fighter despatched? I doubt that was even an option. There's a fair chance that unofficial night operations, or more accurately, operations during darkness, were carried out by "day" fighter units, depending on the needs of their particular theatre of combat.
I'd like to see night return because it was fun. Maybe it's not fun for other people. Maybe not even for the majority of people, in which case, it's probably unlikely that it would make a return. But it's just not accurate to say that actual fighter pilots that DID fight in ww2 on all sides simply didn't sortie day fighters at night. If the need was there to sortie somebody in a fighter, then I bet somebody was going to up a fighter regardless of the time of day or night. It may not have been an everyday occurance, but it did happen.
For AH purposes, we don't need special radar sets in special aircraft, though that would be even more fun. We already have a Ground Controlled Intercept style radar in our dot dar and dar bar and I can't really understand why night would have to have that radar turned off, yet day fighters could benefit from it? Silly. You can still blind the another country by knocking out the HQ's radar buildings. We dont' have any night fighters that carry on board radar yet, so as night approached, country's would finally have a reason to defend their HQ's. All around play quality would increase in my opinion with a slightly greater emphasis on the strategy of winning the "war" than on endless furballing. (And maybe some people would actually get better at level bombing and stop trying to dive bomb with b17's and Lancs.)
We always have a full moon too, or at least AH1 did, and there was enough light to see and fly by instruments unless the clouds obscured the moonlight. Visibility wasn't all that terrible but it was dark. Ground targets were visible enough to bomb, but you had to perfect your technique with the shorter line of sight runs. Maybe it was primarily those of us who like to level bomb that loved the night...though I always thought most people had fun during the night, whatever they flew. I enjoyed killing night bombers as much as bombing stuff at night though, and some people did manage to furball and jabo, though the fights were generally smaller and it was a little easier to disengage if you got into trouble. But then one day the night was gone.
If the night comes back, I'll be happy. If it doesn't. No big deal I guess. It's a shame to not have it, but...I guess the majority will rule. I'll still have fun regardless.
-Hack9
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Once again, as Toad mentioned above--- If you like night, whatever the reason may be...lower your gamma. And reduce your brightness and contrast.
In all these pages of discussion, I have not seen anything which shows this to be anything other than an ideal solution for all concerned.
I could further suggest closing your eyes, but folks might take that to be too extreme. I can't imagine why though, given some of the justifications presented in this thread. :D
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the whole point of night time is not so that those who enjoy night can see less.
it is so ALL aircraft in a confrontation are at the same disadvantage.
lowering gamma and brightness is the stupidest suggestion ever.
we want to see the moon shining. the stars twinkling, and all the other ascociated aspects of night time, tracers whizzing about, large bomber formations making menacing shadows in the sky.
it is merely to add another element to the gameplay, which is becoming stale to say the least.
bat
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it is merely to add another element to the gameplay, which is becoming stale to say the least.
Unfortunately, this is becoming true.
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it is a shame LS.
and i am a die hard fan.
it must be bad.
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Originally posted by mechanic
the whole point of night time is not so that those who enjoy night can see less.
it is so ALL aircraft in a confrontation are at the same disadvantage.
That disadvantage is something that trades skill for chance. Even for bombers I think. That's why I don't like it.
I understand you like the graphics. Fair enough. But when the price of graphics is gameplay, then I say stick with gameplay.
Would you like night gameplay if we removed icons and had dar only for dedicated night fighters...and then only to the extent that 1940's in-plane radar technology allowed? The only semi-meaningful night approach, as SlapShot has pointed out. Seriously, what would you do if that was the case? There's only so long you can gaze at stars.
Furthermore, stars and moons etc are things that you can see in real life. They are more impressive there as well. Especially out in the high desert where the air is thin and the temps are warm. :)
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Best solution to this is to either have a separate night arena, or modify H2H to allow adjustment for night. Then the night enthusiasts can fly to their heart's content without disturbing the majority who prefer day.
Someone should enter a separate request for the H2H idea, or send email to HTC.
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Very interesting Hack9 .. thanks for that ... but this is where it goes wrong ...
... ready to pounce on any unwary Soviet bombers.
and it sounds like they really only lifted under ideal moonlit conditions.
Besides hunting down bombers, which I already admitted to taking place, is there any evidence of night time dogfighting ?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Slap, that's hipocritical. You're calling for utter realism during night, but you'll freak out if someone changes anything during the day.
LS ... still nothing to back this statement up ?!?!
I thought so ...
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Originally posted by phookat
That disadvantage is something that trades skill for chance. Even for bombers I think. That's why I don't like it.
I understand you like the graphics. Fair enough. But when the price of graphics is gameplay, then I say stick with gameplay.
Would you like night gameplay if we removed icons and had dar only for dedicated night fighters...and then only to the extent that 1940's in-plane radar technology allowed? The only semi-meaningful night approach, as SlapShot has pointed out. Seriously, what would you do if that was the case? There's only so long you can gaze at stars.
Furthermore, stars and moons etc are things that you can see in real life. They are more impressive there as well. Especially out in the high desert where the air is thin and the temps are warm. :)
i appreciate this point fully, and yes i would accept having no icons.
was night combat in the real war not also about chance?
would it help to change your mind if we had searchlights?
i see both sides of this discussion and both sides have fair points,
couldnt we just try it for half an hour?? :)
bat
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it is merely to add another element to the gameplay, which is becoming stale to say the least.
I hear ya there Bat ... no doubt ... but I don't think that night time is the solution.
I believe that it will only cause people to log off and that is not what we need in the MA at the moment. The ENY has enough people in a tizzy ... adding this would be like adding gas to the fire.
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The one thing i enjoyed most about having night in the MA was getting into a 110G2 loaded to the max with fuel, ammo and rockets and going buff hunting.
To be able to find buffs flying around during the night in the MA was almost a sure thing. And it was some dam good fun to blast them out of the sky with the 110G2 guns. :D
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Originally posted by SlapShot
it is merely to add another element to the gameplay, which is becoming stale to say the least.
I hear ya there Bat ... no doubt ... but I don't think that night time is the solution.
I believe that it will only cause people to log off and that is not what we need in the MA at the moment. The ENY has enough people in a tizzy ... adding this would be like adding gas to the fire.
thinking about it you're right.
i hope we figure something out soon though
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
The one thing i enjoyed most about having night in the MA was getting into a 110G2 loaded to the max with fuel, ammo and rockets and going buff hunting.
To be able to find buffs flying around during the night in the MA was almost a sure thing. And it was some dam good fun to blast them out of the sky with the 110G2 guns. :D
I was probably in some of those bombers. Man I miss that.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The only thing amazing about night time is the stupid "fantasies" revolving around it.
I am glad to see you are finally coming around to our way of thinking....first night time is fantacy! Yeah, that's right! And at this very moment at my house...it's fantacyland-in reality. Dark and I had to drive home with car lights on.
There's always these band of people who think doing the bizarre, unusual, unlikely, and untypical stuff is somehow gonna bring loads of exotic fun.
Well, it's not. What it does is add 15 minutes of non-flying time the arena, plus additional 1 hour of heavy dusk/dawn where things are barely visible.
You say that it adds 15 mins of non-flying time and an hour of heavy dawn/dusk. AHAAAAAA Good point, then it should be 30 minutes of non-flying time. Because my missions might just be a but more aggressive!
And don't drag realism into this.
And apparently, you won't either! Not even a little bit. Yah...realism isn't for "games" just life.
Everything in a game is selective realism. Unless there is some fundamental reason to absoultely try and hold on to reality(such as limited ammo, realistic FM, no external views and etc.) all other realism issues are for compromise with game play.
So your idea of selective realism includes many things except a concept of realism we deal with in our daily life! And "selective" means what "you alone select! (along with a minority of folks.)
Having day time all day long does not make anyone log off. Having a night time does. Be it 10 guys or 100 guys.
Being vulched excessively and hopelessly makes me log off, and maybe even more people than night time does......think of that??
This forced, warped definition of "realism" does not help anything. You guys wanna talk about reality of night time in the real war? How large do you think the average portion of night fighter squadrons were, compared to normal day-time fighters?
At night, day time pilots and planes rest. It's "night". You aren't supposed to see anything without a radar mechanism. And as much, you barely see anything in thr MA.
D-Day started with night drops, troops galore. While many were lost because they dropped far from the target area or their gliders landed or crashed far away from their designated LZ, they still went in at night.
Except, the MA has AWACS for all fighters, and provides icons for all planes. There's no such thing as a specialized night fighter in the MA.
So, what are we gonna do at night? Use the same planes we do at day time, to fly the same way, in doing the same stuff - the only difference is, at night you can't see anything, and the frustration factor overwhelms the fun factor.
If there were something done to the dar systems, so there would be some real night fighters, with their own type of game play that distinctly differs from day time fighters - then having night time would make sense.
However, since it ain't that way, we gonna use same planes to do the same stuff we do at day time, and we're gonna start to hate it because it is what it is - it sucks.
I am going to shorten this: There is no AWACs in the MA, just normal dar. This is true. I believe there are a few actual night fighters in AH but not specialized. (I can't name them though) Flying the same planes at night as we do in day is all we have for now, and 11 of you stated it's "NO" to night flight. We need to have more variety and if this means a new arena or some other setup, then so be it. You won't find many of us in the MA then, and I think you can count on that. In 90 days, the MA would lose more than 25% of it attendance, which is more than CT would do.
Why, because we need variety. Would I fly at night all the time, of course not. But 30 minutes every 12 hours to 15 on a rotation would draw me in and many others. But not just for the night.
The MA sucks and it's due to it's being controlled by mob rule and the biggest squads rule. It isn't fun to arrive after a long day to up and find most of the fields porked, or defending wave after wave of attacking hoards of buffs and hvy jabos. That is getting quite old even now.
AND You agree if night figters were enabled then it "might" be OK. That is a start.
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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First, I really don't get the preoccupation with suggesting that night would require standard AH radar to be taken away and replaced by on-board radar units. Why? If radar is present during the day, then it should be present at night. You want to turn out the lights for the enemy? Knock out their radar in the evening and keep it down and watch em fumble around all night. All 30 minutes of it.
Take away radar at night, and the daytime radar has to go too. I understand wanting to promote historical accuracy...but c'mon...this isn't a historical arena. In the CT? sure turn out the lights for night fighting and make only those with radar equipped aircraft be able to see in the dark...unless of course their side had some kind of ground controlled radar to aid them. But main arena? Sheesh. P51's can fight F4U's in the MA. How freakin historical is that? Let's lay the historical accuracy thing to rest regarding radar and the potential of night fighting in the MA. Accurate flight and gunnery models are as historical as the MA gets.
It would be cool if we had radar equipped night fighters on hand, but we don't and I doubt there are any plans to add any. But why do we thinnk HTC would have to model night fighters fitted with on board radar to bring back night? They don't. And people would just use the heavily armed Ju88's and Bf110's and P61's, Mossies, etc to pop gv's during the day, flatten airfields, vulch with really big, bad guns and kill CV's during the day anyway. When radar was knocked out for a country, everybody would just up a radar equipped aircraft. There goes your historical accuracy out the window again AND there goes any incentive to knock out radar...which would be a blow against the quality of game play. I can hear the whining already.
Why do people who like the night have to prove that dogfighting took place at night in order to bring it back? Large scale dogfights between groups of single engined fighters probably didn't happen at night any more often than kamikaze dive bombing B17's took out CV's during WW2. The difference between those two type of events though is that single engined fighters were capable of flying and fighting at night and sometimes did (even if it was to intercept bombers), and it was highly unlikely that a B17 would make an even remotely suitable dive bomber. If it was possible (not historical) for an aircraft to do it, it should be allowed in the game. If not, then it shouldn't be allowed. It was possible for "day" fighters to fly and fight at night...so it should be allowed if HTC brings back night operations, without need for the addition of any specialty aircraft or modifications to the country radar system.
Why is it the night lovers would be the one's that have to go HTH or have their own arena created? The MA is designed to support strategic play. If you want to dogfight exclusively without interruption, go to the DA. That's what it's there for. There's already an arena designed specifically for furballers, yet I guess the numbers are in the MA, so that's where the action is.
But the MA is intended for general game play. Strats are there, cities, ports, towns, airfields, etc. These are not soley intended to be nice scenery for those that love to dogfight. They have an effect on the game: resupply, radar capabilities etc. The MA play has begun to devolve into a free for all, first person shooter type team deathmatch...with a really great flight model. Some very cool features of the game are going un-noticed at least and apparently largely unappreciated.
I think most people who would like to see night come back, don't simply want to revive night time operations to look at the stars and the big fat moon. They want to try and bring back the strategy of fighting the "war" and forcing the reset. Night is something that forced a change in gaming tactics for a half hour or so, and interrupted the furball mentality long enough for the strategically minded to make a contribution to the arena and play the game in a way that matters to them.
As it stands. Bombers still bomb. Strat guys still strat. GVers still GV, but the day...and thus the game...is owned by the furballers. It would be nice if the night could be once again owned by the bombers and guys that like to fly fighters in the dark to try to catch them. The new terrain would also help GV's do some really cool base takeovers and stuff under the cover of darkness as well. Night time has a lot to offer the open minded that are willing to try something "new".
And if you don't like the night? Go fly in the DA or CT,TA or do some HTH for 30 minutes. It won't kill ya, and when you come back...maybe some pretty cool guys will have resupplied some bases, bombed the crap out of the enemy's strats, and got things set up nicely for your dawn furball patrol.
PS. If dedicated night fighters ARE a possibility for the future in AH2, I suggest: Radar equipped Me262! SWEET!
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Hack9
Well thought out.
I agree 100%
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Well thought out and presented! :aok But if I had to, I'd suggest the MA be renamed to "Fighter OPS". And let them have at it! Then set a new MA and call it......"Anything goes!" ;) Clouds, heavy winds, NIGHT, and NO WHINERS ALLOWED! :D
Originally posted by Hack9
First, I really don't get the preoccupation with suggesting that night would require standard AH radar to be taken away and replaced by on-board radar units. Why? If radar is present during the day, then it should be present at night. You want to turn out the lights for the enemy? Knock out their radar in the evening and keep it down and watch em fumble around all night. All 30 minutes of it.
Take away radar at night, and the daytime radar has to go too. I understand wanting to promote historical accuracy...but c'mon...this isn't a historical arena. In the CT? sure turn out the lights for night fighting and make only those with radar equipped aircraft be able to see in the dark...unless of course their side had some kind of ground controlled radar to aid them. But main arena? Sheesh. P51's can fight F4U's in the MA. How freakin historical is that? Let's lay the historical accuracy thing to rest regarding radar and the potential of night fighting in the MA. Accurate flight and gunnery models are as historical as the MA gets.
It would be cool if we had radar equipped night fighters on hand, but we don't and I doubt there are any plans to add any. But why do we thinnk HTC would have to model night fighters fitted with on board radar to bring back night? They don't. And people would just use the heavily armed Ju88's and Bf110's and P61's, Mossies, etc to pop gv's during the day, flatten airfields, vulch with really big, bad guns and kill CV's during the day anyway. When radar was knocked out for a country, everybody would just up a radar equipped aircraft. There goes your historical accuracy out the window again AND there goes any incentive to knock out radar...which would be a blow against the quality of game play. I can hear the whining already.
Why do people who like the night have to prove that dogfighting took place at night in order to bring it back? Large scale dogfights between groups of single engined fighters probably didn't happen at night any more often than kamikaze dive bombing B17's took out CV's during WW2. The difference between those two type of events though is that single engined fighters were capable of flying and fighting at night and sometimes did (even if it was to intercept bombers), and it was highly unlikely that a B17 would make an even remotely suitable dive bomber. If it was possible (not historical) for an aircraft to do it, it should be allowed in the game. If not, then it shouldn't be allowed. It was possible for "day" fighters to fly and fight at night...so it should be allowed if HTC brings back night operations, without need for the addition of any specialty aircraft or modifications to the country radar system.
Why is it the night lovers would be the one's that have to go HTH or have their own arena created? The MA is designed to support strategic play. If you want to dogfight exclusively without interruption, go to the DA. That's what it's there for. There's already an arena designed specifically for furballers, yet I guess the numbers are in the MA, so that's where the action is.
But the MA is intended for general game play. Strats are there, cities, ports, towns, airfields, etc. These are not soley intended to be nice scenery for those that love to dogfight. They have an effect on the game: resupply, radar capabilities etc. The MA play has begun to devolve into a free for all, first person shooter type team deathmatch...with a really great flight model. Some very cool features of the game are going un-noticed at least and apparently largely unappreciated.
I think most people who would like to see night come back, don't simply want to revive night time operations to look at the stars and the big fat moon. They want to try and bring back the strategy of fighting the "war" and forcing the reset. Night is something that forced a change in gaming tactics for a half hour or so, and interrupted the furball mentality long enough for the strategically minded to make a contribution to the arena and play the game in a way that matters to them.
As it stands. Bombers still bomb. Strat guys still strat. GVers still GV, but the day...and thus the game...is owned by the furballers. It would be nice if the night could be once again owned by the bombers and guys that like to fly fighters in the dark to try to catch them. The new terrain would also help GV's do some really cool base takeovers and stuff under the cover of darkness as well. Night time has a lot to offer the open minded that are willing to try something "new".
And if you don't like the night? Go fly in the DA or CT,TA or do some HTH for 30 minutes. It won't kill ya, and when you come back...maybe some pretty cool guys will have resupplied some bases, bombed the crap out of the enemy's strats, and got things set up nicely for your dawn furball patrol.
PS. If dedicated night fighters ARE a possibility for the future in AH2, I suggest: Radar equipped Me262! SWEET!
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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GREAT POST HACK!:aok
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HiTech.........c'mere.........what will it take, what do you want from us?? We need you and your voice too. Give us a reason why it cannot be resumed and/or why it isn't doable. I think it is, and we are voicing our desire to have it back, even in a limited way. This debate is ongoing and the numbers support bringing it back. Please review this and bring it back! I emplore you, sir.
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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Originally posted by mechanic
i appreciate this point fully, and yes i would accept having no icons.
I am curious as to what anyone could do in this case. :) It is very likely that, in all 30 minutes, even if radar was on, you will simply not make contact with anyone, at any time.
See, that's sort of the conundrum here. The point of night is that you can't see anything. If you can't see anything, nothing is going to happen (except milkruns I guess). But if you include icons, then you are defeating both the purpose of icons and the purpose of night also...so you end up (as Kweessa said) doing the same things you do in the daytime, only half blind. That is not realistic, nor IMO is it fun.
Originally posted by mechanic
was night combat in the real war not also about chance?
Sure. Does it belong in a game? IMO no, no more so that the crushing boredom of 10 hour flights.
Originally posted by mechanic
would it help to change your mind if we had searchlights?
Well... perhaps. In that case we have a situation where attackers are seen, but defenders are invisible. Doesn't sound like it would really work all that well. Would look cool though.
Originally posted by mechanic
couldnt we just try it for half an hour?? :)
LOL hehe. Well if it does come back, I won't complain ("complain" means "demand that it be removed" :D). Even if it turns out I don't like it, which is pretty likely, I'll most likely just head to the CT for a half hour.
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Originally posted by Hack9
First, I really don't get the preoccupation with suggesting that night would require standard AH radar to be taken away and replaced by on-board radar units. Why? If radar is present during the day, then it should be present at night.
Well, OK, let's say radar is kept on, but icons are turned off. Clearly the idea of icons is completely contrary to the idea of night. Would it still be fun for you?
Originally posted by Hack9
I think most people who would like to see night come back, don't simply want to revive night time operations to look at the stars and the big fat moon. They want to try and bring back the strategy of fighting the "war" and forcing the reset. Night is something that forced a change in gaming tactics for a half hour or so, and interrupted the furball mentality long enough for the strategically minded to make a contribution to the arena and play the game in a way that matters to them.
OK, we're back on this topic. In what way does night promote "strategic play"? It allows people to milkrun bases easily. This I would say is not a good reason for night.
Originally posted by Hack9
As it stands. Bombers still bomb. Strat guys still strat. GVers still GV, but the day...and thus the game...is owned by the furballers.
How do you come to this conclusion?? Furballers are off doing their own little thing between two close bases...all the rest of the map is available for strategy! There is absolutely nothing stopping stratters to buff and resupply in daylight. And if "strategy" means "milkrun", there's *plenty* of places to do that too, except sometimes on small maps. If you grab some alt in your buffs, no furballer will touch you regardless.
As far as the strat/furball thing, daylight allows both types of play. Night only allows one.
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Good post hack:aok
I want to respond to the (they didn't use regular planes as night fighters)
I have a book somewhere of actual acounts of the AVG and they often had to take there P40's up to defend against Jap night time raids of Zeke's and bombers. I don't think the P40 had dar did it??? :)
I know this is an early war example but ya can't say it never happened.
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Originally posted by phookat
As far as the strat/furball thing, daylight allows both types of play. Night only allows one.
I for one would like to see a full-blown, fifty plane, night furball...
...Once.
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just wondering if all the anti-night people would enjoy it if it looked like this:
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-3%20jpg.JPG)
......or this......
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-2%20jpg.JPG)
..or even this....
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-5%20tif.PNG)
but then again, it would be nice if the day light looked like this:
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-1%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-6%20tiff.PNG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-il2-%20png.PNG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-ping%20png.PNG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-shoot%20png.PNG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-il2-2%20png.PNG)
(yes i do love shooting down defenceless JU-52s mwuuhahaha!)
Come on HTC, lets strive to make AH better than the rest visually, not just (as it already is) in multi player capability.
Batfink
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Originally posted by TDeacon
Best solution to this is to either have a separate night arena, or modify H2H to allow adjustment for night. Then the night enthusiasts can fly to their heart's content without disturbing the majority who prefer day.
Someone should enter a separate request for the H2H idea, or send email to HTC.
Again Ill say
"I just LOVE the way people use the term "Most people" to try to artificially strengthen and justify their arguement on subjects.
It always amuses me because reguardless of subject
99.999 times out of 100 it isnt true. It is nothing more then pure fallacy.
A handful of people is not "most people"
20,30,40 or even 50 people are NOT "Most people"
Hell during primetime hours even 100 people are not "most people"
And I have never seen 100 people log off due to night, pizza or any other reason other then perhaps a mass boot caused by a server crash.
Back when there was night during primetime hours there were on average about 120-150 players per country.
Even at the low end that 360 people.
In order to be a majority and thus "most of the people" at LEAST 181 would have to log off.
And thats never ever happened. other then by mass disco.
And Certainly not due to night.
So this whole claim of "most people" is a load of...
Well you know"
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Personally I think ther can be something done to apease both sides of the issue.
How about we reduce the amount of times we get night to say twice per day as oppsed to every sunset.
These times woudl be gradually rotated to take part at different times each day so that no one time period would be effected every single day.
Example. Lets say there is a night time at the sunset at 7:00 PM EST.
well the next day perhaps it would happen at 11:00 PM
That way no one timeframe would be effected by night at the same time each day. In Fact the majority of the time people wouldnt see night at all.
Another thing we can do is have a sort of weather report on the Boards with a table telling what time sunsets-sunrises would be so that those that want night can be sure to show up and those that dont want it will know when not to be there and when it will be safe for them to log on.
Of couse that would be fair to all sides and Im not sure if we can have that with all the temper tantrum throwing footstompers we have that insist on ONLY having it the way they want it, or dont want it.
whichever the case may be
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Originally posted by TDeacon
Best solution to this is to either have a separate night arena, or modify H2H to allow adjustment for night. Then the night enthusiasts can fly to their heart's content without disturbing the majority who prefer day.
LOL! thats soooooooo funny.
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Personally I think ther can be something done to apease both sides of the issue.
How about we reduce the amount of times we get night to say twice per day as oppsed to every sunset.
These times woudl be gradually rotated to take part at different times each day so that no one time period would be effected every single day.
Example. Lets say there is a night time at the sunset at 7:00 PM EST.
well the next day perhaps it would happen at 11:00 PM
That way no one timeframe would be effected by night at the same time each day. In Fact the majority of the time people wouldnt see night at all.
Another thing we can do is have a sort of weather report on the Boards with a table telling what time sunsets-sunrises would be so that those that want night can be sure to show up and those that dont want it will know when not to be there and when it will be safe for them to log on.
Of couse that would be fair to all sides and Im not sure if we can have that with all the temper tantrum throwing footstompers we have that insist on ONLY having it the way they want it, or dont want it.
whichever the case may be
i like that idea alot. :D
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People who love night time can simply turn down the gamma on their monitors and have night all they want.
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Originally posted by Steve
People who love night time can simply turn down the gamma on their monitors and have night all they want.
Cant. Adjusting Gamma by that much would ruin your monitor. remember?
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Originally posted by Steve
People who love night time can simply turn down the gamma on their monitors and have night all they want.
will you STFU :mad:
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The way you describe night Drediock is how it was implelented before--13 hour shifts. I didn't like it and neither did at least some others. It's not like we demand everything the way we want it...when discussing a change that affects everyone, we should figure out if it makes sense or not. I and others have shown why this doesn't make sense.
Now there is the suggestion floating around here that tons of people like the night or even prefer the night. Every time someone says "majority", the night folks jump on him. So how about this for a solution. Change the MA to night, permanently, and have a new arena called "Daytime-Only Arena". The new arena will be just like the MA, except no night.
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First, I really don't get the preoccupation with suggesting that night would require standard AH radar to be taken away and replaced by on-board radar units. Why? If radar is present during the day, then it should be present at night. You want to turn out the lights for the enemy? Knock out their radar in the evening and keep it down and watch em fumble around all night. All 30 minutes of it.
Because flying at night should really be that difficult, especially in a combat situtation. I mean, if you really want the challenge of flying at night, then why not ?
Take away radar at night, and the daytime radar has to go too. I understand wanting to promote historical accuracy...but c'mon...this isn't a historical arena. In the CT? sure turn out the lights for night fighting and make only those with radar equipped aircraft be able to see in the dark...unless of course their side had some kind of ground controlled radar to aid them. But main arena? Sheesh. P51's can fight F4U's in the MA. How freakin historical is that? Let's lay the historical accuracy thing to rest regarding radar and the potential of night fighting in the MA. Accurate flight and gunnery models are as historical as the MA gets.
I am not looking for historical accuracy ... I am looking for accuracy.
Just because night would roll around in the MA does not preclude that all those guys who enjoy dogfighting will be inclined to now up a bomber. You will not see, to any perceivable degree, an increase in bombers in the MA if it is night. For the most part, people will still fly, at night, the same planes that they fly during daylight hours in the MA.
If you want night, an you want the immersion of flying at night, then really all that should flying the friendly skys of AH are bombers and bomber hunters. Bombers have no radar ... they just know their target, and the bomber hunters have on-board radar in a 12 mile radius. Now this, to me would be real fun. Trying to out think where the bombers might be going and then doing a bomber-hunter sweep to find them.
It would be cool if we had radar equipped night fighters on hand, but we don't and I doubt there are any plans to add any. But why do we thinnk HTC would have to model night fighters fitted with on board radar to bring back night? They don't. And people would just use the heavily armed Ju88's and Bf110's and P61's, Mossies, etc to pop gv's during the day, flatten airfields, vulch with really big, bad guns and kill CV's during the day anyway. When radar was knocked out for a country, everybody would just up a radar equipped aircraft. There goes your historical accuracy out the window again AND there goes any incentive to knock out radar...which would be a blow against the quality of game play. I can hear the whining already.
Simple ... on-board radar would only work during MA night time.
But, let say their radar did work during the day ... so what ... if radar went out, wouldn't it be cool to send up multiples of these planes to act as a temporary radar system and the guys flying these planes would then radio-text any inbound that they find. You want something new ... something different ... something else ... that would be the bomb in my book.
Why do people who like the night have to prove that dogfighting took place at night in order to bring it back? Large scale dogfights between groups of single engined fighters probably didn't happen at night any more often than kamikaze dive bombing B17's took out CV's during WW2. The difference between those two type of events though is that single engined fighters were capable of flying and fighting at night and sometimes did (even if it was to intercept bombers), and it was highly unlikely that a B17 would make an even remotely suitable dive bomber. If it was possible (not historical) for an aircraft to do it, it should be allowed in the game. If not, then it shouldn't be allowed. It was possible for "day" fighters to fly and fight at night...so it should be allowed if HTC brings back night operations, without need for the addition of any specialty aircraft or modifications to the country radar system.
I don't prescribe to the dive bombing buffs either and only hope that something can be done in that area.
As far as dogfighting at night ... the gunnery is AH II, for most, is much harder than it was in AH I, along with the fact of trying to distinguish plane sillouttes against the ground tiles during AH daylight hours ... I can only imagine the frustration of those who would now try to accomplish the same task in during AH night.
Can you say ... turn up the gamma momma !!! ... with that, you have now defeated the whole purpose of night and only the gamey gamers will survive.
Why is it the night lovers would be the one's that have to go HTH or have their own arena created? The MA is designed to support strategic play. If you want to dogfight exclusively without interruption, go to the DA. That's what it's there for. There's already an arena designed specifically for furballers, yet I guess the numbers are in the MA, so that's where the action is.
Nice try ... trying to support your argument by using the "furballer" vs the "strat" guys does not make your argument any stronger or more valid. Having night or not having night trancends these 2 genres and supporters from both camps have voiced their opinions for both side of the fence.
The DA is for dueling that is what the "D" is for. Do not confuse dueling with furballing, it only makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.
But the MA is intended for general game play. Strats are there, cities, ports, towns, airfields, etc. These are not soley intended to be nice scenery for those that love to dogfight. They have an effect on the game: resupply, radar capabilities etc. The MA play has begun to devolve into a free for all, first person shooter type team deathmatch...with a really great flight model. Some very cool features of the game are going un-noticed at least and apparently largely unappreciated.
Nobody is forcing anybody to choose between flying fighters or bombers the last time I checked. So, if there are strats all over the place and "cool features of the game are going un-noticed at least and apparently largely unappreciated", then why is that ?
Are you saying that there is a conspriacy by the "furballers" to brainwash all bomber pilots into becoming fighter jocks and that is why the MA has "devolved into a free for all, first person shooter type team deathmatch...with a really great flight model" ?
Please enlighten me and the others as to how this devolution has taken place ?
What does it all this have to do with night in the MA ... Do we feel the need to blame someone or some group of people ? Of course we do.
I think most people who would like to see night come back, don't simply want to revive night time operations to look at the stars and the big fat moon. They want to try and bring back the strategy of fighting the "war" and forcing the reset. Night is something that forced a change in gaming tactics for a half hour or so, and interrupted the furball mentality long enough for the strategically minded to make a contribution to the arena and play the game in a way that matters to them.
You would be surprized at the amount of people who could give a rats arse about the reset. This group would also include some who have requested that night be brought back.
I have been flying here for close to 3 years and have experienced many an AH night and I cannot agree that the pure existence of night "a change in gaming tactics for a half hour or so". For the most part is was SOP in the MA, it was just harder to see.
Again ... we need to throw the dig at the "furballers". It's all their fault DAMNNATION !!!
And please explain to me while the "furball mentality" is happily doing there thing, how does that interrupt the "strategically minded" from making a contribution to the arena and play the game in a way that matters to them ?
As it stands. Bombers still bomb. Strat guys still strat. GVers still GV, but the day...and thus the game...is owned by the furballers. It would be nice if the night could be once again owned by the bombers and guys that like to fly fighters in the dark to try to catch them. The new terrain would also help GV's do some really cool base takeovers and stuff under the cover of darkness as well. Night time has a lot to offer the open minded that are willing to try something "new".
Total nirvana !!! Again ... its all the "furballers" fault ... nice try.
And if you don't like the night? Go fly in the DA or CT,TA or do some HTH for 30 minutes. It won't kill ya, and when you come back...maybe some pretty cool guys will have resupplied some bases, bombed the crap out of the enemy's strats, and got things set up nicely for your dawn furball patrol.
If ya like night ... then turn down your gamma a touch (so you don't wreck your monitor and get DRED on your case ... ;) ) along with the contrast and brightness and create you own immersive night. I won't kill ya ... well maybe it will, YMMV ... and when you come back ... you fill in the blank.
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if HTC what to keep MA the new DA/FFA arena when the hell will TOD be out. And will i even BE here?
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Icons were present in AH1 during night play, and it was still hard to see. If I recall correctly, and I may be mistaken on this, the brightness of the icon was dimmed at night. At least in my foggy memory that's how it seems. If that's not the case, it is simple enough to toggle the icons off if you think it defeats the purpose of night. But I don't think everybody should be forced to fly without icons at night any more than during the day. Also, the range at which an icon appears can be adjusted for the arena for night play. So rather than showing up < 6k, it shows up at 3k, or maybe even closer.
Icons are present in day and night play for obvious reasons. It makes it easier to ID friendly aircraft and compensates for the way that pilots discern friend from foe at longer distances. Aircraft recognition is more than simply wing shapes and fuselage profiles, paint and other aircraft markings. There are other subtleties to a/c recognition that are difficult to model in the game using computer graphics and sound. In AH, P51's could be friend or foe. A 190 could be trying to kill your 190. Learning to recognize aircraft shapes doesn't help much for Friend/Foe in AH. Thus, we have icons. No one is forced to fly with or without them in any arena. Another aspect of the icons is the ranging feature. This also compensates for the lack of depth perception when viewing a 3D image in 2D.
(As a side note: I've always been curious if there are some old hands or even relative newbies out there that fly without icons enabled? to those guys)
There were times when I sortied to catch bombers I was sure would be coming for a target, but didn't find anything to kill at night. But there were plenty of times that I DID catch those buffs or jabos (yes, jabos at night) on their way to our HQ or where ever. I remember instances of dar being out and still getting kills. Adapt. Plan. Execute.
My statement about strategic game play was not to imply that no strategic game play is possible during daylight hours, nor was it my intention to imply that no one is playing that way during daylight hours. I do it. Lots of people do it. The bottom line is night adds another dimension to the game and allows strat'ers and resupply hounds, sneaky gv attackers and others to come up with new and innovative ways of keeping the game interesting. And to use the term someone else in this thread used, (), it helps break up the "Mob Rule" of daylight hours.
So maybe it was inaccurate to say the day belongs to the furballer's. Maybe I should restate and say the daylight belongs to the MOB instead. We have the ENY system because the mob has otherwise gone unchecked since the demise of night operations. But night is more than just a counter to the MOB. It adds variety, all-be-it a small slice of variety in the opinion of some.
This really isn't personal. I dont' think it's really about bombers/milkrunners vs fighter jocks. Nor do I think it's really about strat vs dogfight. This is a multifaceted game and all styles of play have a place and opportunity in the MA. That's not really the issue here. This isn't simply about day vs night as much as it is about bringing back something of this game that has inexplicably gone MIA.
I think that most of us who remember the night do so with fondness, but remember something lost of the Spirit of AH with even more fondness. We are attempting to recapture it, and the night is what some of us connect to that lost Spirit of the game. Let me clarify that. The Spirit of AH isn't totally lost. It's still a fun game or I wouldn't play it. But something is missing, that's for sure.
So maybe night isn't the answer. There's no guarantee it will ever come back. This debate could be an exercise in futility. If night doesn't come back, we still have to do SOMETHING to inspire some more variety of gameplay though. That should be something we can all agree to.
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Like thrila, I was one of the people who thought night was cool.
If you guys know me, you'll understand I'm one of the most hard-line advocates for realism in the MA.
I've fought hordes of people in defense of realistic gunnery. I advocate realistic bomb drops, realistic fighting conditions, realistic combat engagments and aircraft maneuvering.
But I don't support night. I've been through all that. I've seen what happens when night comes. And most of all I've experienced the hazards of "realism" that directly contradicts gameplay. Realistic gunnery and flight models add to the game in the sense that it enhances our combat experience to the full.
"Night", doesn't fall under that category. Turning up gamma all the way up and relying on icons to fight - that sure gets old real quick. If I had access to a specialized Ju88 night fighter version, or a night fighter A234 or a Mosquito, with its own type of gameplay that differs distinctly from what day-time engagements has to offer, then I'd love the night.
However, as long as MA remains as it is, I'll just watch the nifty AWACS radar to locate enemies, move my butt there, and keep a look-out for bright neon-light icons that shines out "come and kill me". I'll use the same planes i do as during day time, and I'll do the same maneuvering as day time. Everything is exactly the same as day, except the aircraft is dark and hardly visible - which will lead me to increase the gamma setting.
Night has no meaning in the MA, friends. Trust me on this.
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Originally posted by Hack9
Icons were present in AH1 during night play, and it was still hard to see. If I recall correctly, and I may be mistaken on this, the brightness of the icon was dimmed at night. At least in my foggy memory that's how it seems. If that's not the case, it is simple enough to toggle the icons off if you think it defeats the purpose of night.
What happened to "everyone has the same disadvantage"? The turn-off-your-monitor or lower-your-gamma solution is just as valid as this one.
Originally posted by Hack9
But I don't think everybody should be forced to fly without icons at night any more than during the day. Also, the range at which an icon appears can be adjusted for the arena for night play. So rather than showing up < 6k, it shows up at 3k, or maybe even closer.
This is off-base. The only purpose or effect of night (other than eye candy) is to make planes invisible. Any form of icons is the direct opposite of that. If you want icons, then you really don't want the night.
Originally posted by Hack9
There were times when I sortied to catch bombers I was sure would be coming for a target, but didn't find anything to kill at night. But there were plenty of times that I DID catch those buffs or jabos (yes, jabos at night) on their way to our HQ or where ever. I remember instances of dar being out and still getting kills. Adapt. Plan. Execute.
Try that without icons.
Originally posted by Hack9
So maybe it was inaccurate to say the day belongs to the furballer's. Maybe I should restate and say the daylight belongs to the MOB instead.
Hordes will be hordes regardless of the time of day.
Originally posted by Hack9
It adds variety, all-be-it a small slice of variety in the opinion of some.
Variety--good. Bad things included for the sake of variety--bad. IMO this is the latter.
Originally posted by Hack9
If night doesn't come back, we still have to do SOMETHING to inspire some more variety of gameplay though. That should be something we can all agree to.
Sorta. I wouldn't mind something more, but I'm having fun as it is.
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i have worked it out.
the problem is not with actual night flying, it is with the *low end* graphics of AH.
dont get me wrong, i love the way the game looks in some aspects, but it certainly lacks a little, as the French would say:
'I dont know what'
its the atmousphere, it just aint there.
the graphics of AH are obviously perfect for what we want (which is multi-player mayhem with up to 750 online, whilst remaining playable on lower spec machines) yet the game as a whole still looks arcade oriented.
IMO, HTC need to work on the 'feel' and lighting effects of the main arena before night can be implemented.
here is a few examples of a night time sortie where the graphics make it look like real life on a moon lit night.
stunning.
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-5%20tif.PNG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-2%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-3%20jpg.JPG)
but then they would of course have to make the daylight look this good first :D
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-il2-%20png.PNG)
by the way, i never use icons in this game, ever, not even at night, and it makes for alot of fun having to search and identify your prey before killing, aka realism.
they could do this in the MA if they gave each country different insignia.
IE: Knights: roundel (hehe)
Bish : maltese cross
Rooks : dont need them, they are the ones coming in at 30k :D
no matter what you flew, it would bear your countries insignia.
i for one would love to play MA with no icons, but at present there is practicaly no way this can be done.
maybe night wouldnt work, i just want to see it once though.
please HT. PLEASE!
batfink
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Think they still have night in CT sometimes bat.
I don't care if they bring it back or not. I WILL turn up gamma so I can see...
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Originally posted by mechanic
here is a few examples of a night time sortie where the graphics make it look like real life on a moon lit night.
One thing to keep in mind is that these shots are mostly taken at d10. When you get out to d200, things don't look that great (in AH, anyway). In fact you can't really see anything at all.
Even in twilight, d200 behind someone and flying towards the ground...the other plane is totally invisible (this is also partially due to the gunsight tint).
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Night has no meaning in the MA, friends. Trust me on this.
If this were so, there would be no controversy. It does have meaning and usefulness to many players, even in the way that night was depicted in AH1. But there seems to be an underlying agreement that you summed up Kweassa: If there were something special the arena or in an aircraft that would be particularly effective during night time operations, night would have more appeal. Searchlights near bases and strat targets, perhaps? Exhaust flames that become visible with darkness?
MiG
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If we had night fighters like the Beaufighter I would say yes to night. you can adjust your gamma in the game now, no need to alt tab out of the game to adjust gamma.
When we did have night in AH many people would just log off until the night was over and then come back.
Someone posted a screenshot of night and said there was a Mustang 2k away, I couldnt see another plane in that screenshot.
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The coolest part about night is the "porkfest" goes away.
I guess I can see why it would piss so many people off. Where's the fun in a 1-on-1 fight (be it between 2 fighters or a fighter and bomber)? It's only fun when you can mass 30 people together to decimate a field in less than 2 minutes without having to worry about getting shot down. Right?
;)
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Can we get weather days in too?
Days when all of Europe on the Baltic map is so socked in you can't takeoff and we all go drink beer in the O-Club?
Typhoon days on the Mindy map where we all spend the day in bomb shelters?
Stuff like that would be soooooooooooo kewl.
They could probably do work on the servers on those days an no one would notice too.
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Originally posted by phookat
The way you describe night Drediock is how it was implelented before--13 hour shifts. I didn't like it and neither did at least some others. It's not like we demand everything the way we want it...when discussing a change that affects everyone, we should figure out if it makes sense or not. I and others have shown why this doesn't make sense.
Now there is the suggestion floating around here that tons of people like the night or even prefer the night. Every time someone says "majority", the night folks jump on him. So how about this for a solution. Change the MA to night, permanently, and have a new arena called "Daytime-Only Arena". The new arena will be just like the MA, except no night.
Once every 13 hours??
Lemme see if Im gettin this right. Your saying that all that tempertantrum, footstomping against night was over once every 13 hours??
So they cant live with 1/2 hour every 13 hours?
That less then one hour in 24.
You gotta be kidding me.
I could see if Night came every couple hours or even every 4 hours. But footstomping over it over once in 13 is nothing short of being rediculous.
People should be ashamed of themselves for being so selfish when odds are better then 80% of the time they would never see night.
Hardly seems even remotely fair to the people who enjoyed it.
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Well, now that I add it all up....been here since Sept 1999. Got several months for free back then-at first, because it was open beta. See, we only had 4 planes back then. Then I paid $30.00 a month, and we still had, 4 planes. That went on for a time, and we got more planes...and we still paid ... $30.00 a month. Then we got some weather, and some clouds, and a couple more planes. It was still ... $30.00 a month. (did I mention that at times video and stuff was porked for a time?) Then we got Film and VOX. It was still ........ $30.00 a month. OH MY we got buffs....and it was still .............$30.00 a month. Then GVs.....you guessed it, still $30.00 a month.
Back then I got value for my money and saw a vision with HTC.
Now, it's whine "this" and whine "that"! And no one is "buying" the cheese! For the amount of $$ I have invested with Internet connections, monthly AH fees, PC upgrades, and all, I could buy a new car! :D (new to me at least)
Let's say 60 months at $15.00...... $900.00. DSL-but lets use AOL instead...what $22.00 a month.....$1320.00. (I pay $50.00 for DSL) And then PC upgrades and all.....$3,000.00 plus.
(Joysticks and all not included.)
Bottom line, I have at least a $900.00 say in this and more, in my opinion. I like the night, I don't want it 24/7, or even more than 2 hours per 24. Random 30 minutes is OK for me. Yet, I want the night! I have paid for it, I have earned and paid for the right to my opinion, and by god I expect HTC to deliver on something that is a current and existing feature. I care less about all the whiners and crybabies. Put up or shut up! Write the checks, and equal my investment, or get out of my way!
HTC, you are not giving me value for my money and efforts. I am a force and person who has promoted and placed many players on the players list, and paid for a few myself. Boa, our former CO, asked me if I was getting a commission! :eek:
The night is something that I paid for, like it or not. Like Burger King, I want it my way! I am paying for the technology and I expect to enjoy it in my own way. And yes, I want to supersize my order! $30.00.....no problem either! Let the whines begin! (I will miss them all-no really) :D
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Once every 13 hours??
Yep, that's right - and because of that, the time night happened was shifted by 2 hours every 24, so that it never fell at the same time every day or timezone. The way it was set up was the day started at 06:00 and finished at 18:00 - thats 12 hours. The night ran from 18:00 to 18:30, warped from 18:30 to 05:30 then continued until 06:00, which was 1 hour, making a total of 13 hours.
The only problem I saw was with the MA being reset every Friday, the cycle always began around the same time on a Friday.....
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Originally posted by Flossy
Yep, that's right - and because of that, the time night happened was shifted by 2 hours every 24, so that it never fell at the same time every day or timezone. The way it was set up was the day started at 06:00 and finished at 18:00 - thats 12 hours. The night ran from 18:00 to 18:30, warped from 18:30 to 05:30 then continued until 06:00, which was 1 hour, making a total of 13 hours.
The only problem I saw was with the MA being reset every Friday, the cycle always began around the same time on a Friday.....
And people threw and are still throwing tempertantrums over it??
How pathetic.
How (editied by DREDIOCK for flame before HT does)
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Originally posted by Flossy
The only problem I saw was with the MA being reset every Friday, the cycle always began around the same time on a Friday.....
And it usually fell during Prime Time US. Big problem.
It's a feature that only a small minority really desires but it kept disrupting the play for the majority during "high density" play periods.
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Originally posted by Toad
And it usually fell during Prime Time US. Big problem.
It's a feature that only a small minority really desires but it kept disrupting the play for the majority during "high density" play periods.
See my quote on this imaginary so called "Majority" above then apply liberally
Fresh diaper and binky available when complete:D
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theres always a breif night in my h2h room's
most people tend to leave when the stars come out Even though ah2 night is way better than it was in ah1.
I mean you can still see the floor b4 you hit it even at night now.
but i dont mind that the no skill player leave when night arives,
you know the 1's i mean... The 1s that whine bout The planes that are in the game...
usualy wanna fly a perk plane when its dissabled and Even if they get to fly a perk plane they still whine about n1k's and la7 and other non perk planes..
night gets rid of the cry baby im a noob i need a training cross for bombing Please turn on stall limiter, get out of that la7 whining Lil no skill ingrates :)
You know the people i mean
if your 1 of em.
dont enter my room lol :) you wont have any fun.
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and theres nothing wrong with the gfx even at the lowest setting The lighting at night is more than adequate for Any 1 to fly in.
just cos you aint to good at flying dont mean you get rid of night for every 1 els.
learn to fly well enough so u have the confidence for night flying and open up a whole new horizon for you.
After all.. most bombing raids were at night time.. yet in ah2 you refuse to even enter a night time room,,
What do you people want any way??
A simulation or a shoot em up cos i tell you what..
Ive seen a load of airoplane games and this is my fave.
And its not my fave becous its arcade like
So make a choice Simulation or arcade.
Chose arcade and go find a new game :)
cchose simulation and take it ith all its aspect's
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Originally posted by Yippee38
I guess I can see why it would piss so many people off. Where's the fun in a 1-on-1 fight (be it between 2 fighters or a fighter and bomber)? It's only fun when you can mass 30 people together to decimate a field in less than 2 minutes without having to worry about getting shot down. Right?
No. Not sure where you're getting this.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Lemme see if Im gettin this right. Your saying that all that tempertantrum, footstomping against night was over once every 13 hours??
I fail to see any temper tantrums here...I think we have all been pretty reasonable in explaining why we don't like it and why it doesn't make sense. Anyway, like I said, if it comes back, I will most likely head to the CT at that time.
But if there are really a lot of people who like or prefer the night, surely having a separate arena with night would be a great solution. This solution is neither unfair nor selfish.
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I dont understand what kind of gamer would Play a simulation game.
And then Leave out 1 of the most importaint aspects Of the war they are simulating....
Night raids were more common than day sorties Yet in ah2 "a suposedly great simulation" they totaly ridequle this and makike Everything nice sunny day fighting...
This aint WW1 people These aint by planes and i aint the red barron.
get it right
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Well, Dred, what I recall is our squad night being repeatedly and routinely interrupted by night. We played from about 8 Central to maybe 11 or so on Wed.
If it had been more random rather than cyclic, it wouldn't have been such a nuisance.
As for diapers and binkies, I see who's doing the crybaby act in this thread.
It's the "nighty-nighters".
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the word "binkie" means what exactly I cannot find it in the oxford english dictionary any where..
So which language is it if its not english and what exactly does it mean...
And how come your so familiar with it
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Originally posted by la7'sRule
and theres nothing wrong with the gfx even at the lowest setting The lighting at night is more than adequate for Any 1 to fly in.
just cos you aint to good at flying dont mean you get rid of night for every 1 els.
learn to fly well enough so u have the confidence for night flying and open up a whole new horizon for you.
After all.. most bombing raids were at night time.. yet in ah2 you refuse to even enter a night time room,,
What do you people want any way??
A simulation or a shoot em up cos i tell you what..
Ive seen a load of airoplane games and this is my fave.
And its not my fave becous its arcade like
So make a choice Simulation or arcade.
Chose arcade and go find a new game :)
cchose simulation and take it ith all its aspect's
la7'sRule ... you are quite the troll ... from the name right down to the l33t sp34k typing.
:rofl
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Please don't. We've discussed this ad nauseum already.
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So if night was more random, and for less time there would be less objections to having it?
Or would the objections just be changed to another reason?
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oh felly tin well na fi?
Dwim yn deuallt syt mae pobol fel y chi yn gedry dweud na iath gynta chi ydi seusnag
tyda chi ddim yn gall.
cym pwyll
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Originally posted by Kev367th
So if night was more random, and for less time there would be less objections to having it?
Or would the objections just be changed to another reason?
Night always sucked. For the numerous reasons mentioned by numerous posters numerous times in this thread.
However, HT, for whatever reason, implemented it. Most folks just worked around it. After fooling around trying to play the game with the gameplay and aircraft available for quite some time, my "work around" was simply to log and do something much more fun or more productive.
I personally believe that night fell disproportionately during US Prime Time. That is when I personally really began to hate it with a passion.
I will always oppose night implementation as long as there are no true nightfighter aircraft and their traditional targets and as long as gameplay is such that there is no real benefit to night implementation.
Random short periods of night would be better than what we had. However, given the game and aircraft we have, random night is a far, far, FAR worse choice than no night at all.
No night is the best possible choice. Everything else would just be varying degrees of suckage.
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NO.
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Whats this 'true nightfighter' crap.
You have DAR, in fact due to the DAR whiners, DAR is virtually up always now.
Of course even if HT introduced a nightfighter there would be yet another reason found not to have night.
Don't say simulation, if this was a sim you wouldn't have in-cockpit DAR available as is now.
There were traditional opponents, a lot of buff guys flew at night before night was disabled. How more accurate do you want it?
Seems most people want a simulation but only within their own small what constitutes a sim boundaries.
You want a sim, fine, make dar only visible from the maproom and plan your mission from there. Lot more 'realistic' than what we have now. But of course this is a GAME not a SIM.
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Check my sig, bud. That's only been in there for four or five years.
This is a GAME. Anyone who doesn't understand that is only fooling himself.
Night makes for a piss-poor game.
Is that clear enough?
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lol Toad think you need to make up your mind.
One reply you say night wouldn't be such a nuisance if random, next one you say random would be worse choice.
But this is a classic
I will always oppose night implementation as long as there are no true nightfighter aircraft and their traditional targets and as long as gameplay is such that there is no real benefit to night implementation.
Followed by
Night makes for a piss-poor game.
As I said even if all the stuff like nightfighters were available you would still find an excuse to oppose it.
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OK ... the only real reason for flying at night was to use the darkness as concelment ... probably the earliest rendition of "stealth". With our "all world" radar and icons at 6k ... all that which makes night flying feasable is rendered moot.
In the the early stages of the war, fighter planes did not have the legs to escort bombers during daylight hours all the way to target and back, leaving them extremely vunerable and many paid the price. So, bombers were then used mainly at night to take advantage of the stealth and increase survivability.
Once radar became available, daytime fighters started to get equipped with on-board radar and large guns to try and find these elusive night time bombers and destroy them. These became what I refer to as "bomber-hunters". So, I would presume that the only planes that flew at night, with any consistency, were bombers and bomber-hunters.
Such would not be the case in AH under the conditions that we have.
Now, if AH night rolled around and the only real and viable options for gameplay were ... bomber vs bomber-hunter ... then I am all for it.
I would love to try a sneak a bomber in under the cover of darkness or I would love to search for prey as a bomber-hunter, but as it is now ... no way ... the only thing that night does is cause people to logoff or jerk around with their gamma, which defeats that purpose all together.
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Now, if AH night rolled around and the only real and viable options for gameplay were ... bomber vs bomber-hunter ... then I am all for it.
If only we could convince HT to find a way to implement then? Maybe some kind of advantage for night fighter over regular fighter?
Maybe possible with new planes promised after AH2.1.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
If only we could convince HT to find a way to implement then?
Who knows what the future will bring ... the graphics engine does have the capabilities to bring forth stuff that we could only wish for. Forgot who it was, either HT or Pyro, but there is already support in place for search lights, and with that, there also has to be the ability to add runway lights. So ... I think that night time is on the agenda, but only hope that when it returns, it is under the best of conditions to make it worthwhile.
We just need to be patient ... which is something that a lot of people around here have very little of. Most remind me of my youngest grand-child ... I WANT IT, AND I WANT IT NOW !!!
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Slappy you look awfully young to be a grandpa :p
Not to say thats a bad thing now. Just sayin.
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will you STFU
blow me, Overlag.
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LOL, Kev. It's all laid out there for you I think you could get it if you tried.
1. I think night makes for piss-poor gameplay.
2. It was absolutely the worst when it kept falling in US Prime Time.
3. If HTC must have it, a rare random occurance would be the best.
4. If HTC must have it, true nightfighter aircraft and their traditional targets and appropriate gameplay would be a major plus.
5. Overall, I think night makes for piss-poor gameplay.
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Gameplay is different for each person. While in your book, the gameplay is awful because you actually have to work, in my book it's a blast.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Gameplay is different for each person. While in your book, the gameplay is awful because you actually have to work, in my book it's a blast.
Who said it was hard ?
Where do you come up with this stuff ?
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Slap, that's hipocritical. You're calling for utter realism during night, but you'll freak out if someone changes anything during the day.
Any luck finding any of my "freak out" posts ? ... or are you trying to predict the future ?
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Still think a separate night-only night-all-the-time arena would work best.
Oh, BTW, someone was mentioning tantrums? ;)
Originally posted by la7'sRule
...
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paint my lancaster sky blue and fix its guns, then i wont be so pissed
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Originally posted by phookat
I fail to see any temper tantrums here...I think we have all been pretty reasonable in explaining why we don't like it and why it doesn't make sense. Anyway, like I said, if it comes back, I will most likely head to the CT at that time.
But if there are really a lot of people who like or prefer the night, surely having a separate arena with night would be a great solution. This solution is neither unfair nor selfish.
I had ment when there was night. there were plenty of tantrums.
Same type seen about ENY, Pizza,Horde,fuelporkin etc.
Some have given reasonable explinations yes so I dont mean all
But still 1/2 hour in 13?
C'mon easily and unquestionably the "majority" of the time there wasnt night.
In all fairness that is far from an unreasonable ratio.
The ones that didnt like it had their way over 80% of the time. But that wasnt good enough. It HAD to be gone altogether in spite of the fact that alot of people enjoyed night.
I make my fair share of arguements and complaints but I try never to argue a point that is going to make things unfair for any segment.
Im against ENY in any shape or form even though it never effects me not one bit. Other then to deprive me from the added perk points I would be getting from killing effected planes and perks I dont care about.
Im against it because I dont think it will work and because it isnt fair to those that only like ot fly certain planes and for a certain country. I dont see that as being fair.
I've argued over the hordes only because I want to be in a reasonably fair fight. I dont want to be part of a horde any more then I want to be horded.
I've argued over large/small/pizza maps Now I dont like the small maps even a little bit. But I dont want to see them go away . I just want to be able to have my fair turn at the maps I like.
And a host of other things.
To get rid of night altogether may make alot of people happy but it isnt fair to the other alot of people who want it
And giving up 1/2 hour in 13 is alot more then fair to the ones the dont like it then the ones that do.
And getting rid of it entirely isnt fair at all
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Originally posted by Toad
Well, Dred, what I recall is our squad night being repeatedly and routinely interrupted by night. We played from about 8 Central to maybe 11 or so on Wed.
If it had been more random rather than cyclic, it wouldn't have been such a nuisance.
As for diapers and binkies, I see who's doing the crybaby act in this thread.
It's the "nighty-nighters".
No crying here. And the non nighters have already been given their binkie...No night
All that aside then if that were the case then it should be emplemented as I described so that no nighttime would fall at the same time every day. It should be that way anyway so that every timeframe over the course of the week would get night at one point or another. then everyone would get their turn.
And perhaps have a sort of weather table telling when the sunsets/sunrises would be for each day.
Then everyone could know well in advance what they were going ot be dealing with before they got here.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And getting rid of it entirely isnt fair at all
How about a separate arena?
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Originally posted by la7'sRule
the word "binkie" means what exactly I cannot find it in the oxford english dictionary any where..
So which language is it if its not english and what exactly does it mean...
And how come your so familiar with it
Its a BINKIE!
(http://www.playtexbaby.com/images/products/180x180/mostlikemother_pacifier.jpg)
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Originally posted by phookat
How about a separate arena?
For just night?
Kinda silly. Even the people who liked the night dont want it ALL the time.
1/2 hour in 13 seems fair
Its at least reasonable
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Originally posted by Toad
Check my sig, bud. That's only been in there for four or five years.
This is a GAME. Anyone who doesn't understand that is only fooling himself.
Night makes for a piss-poor game.
Is that clear enough?
And thats not footstomping?
Reminds me an awful lot of Rumpelstiltskin. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1298/5pescirum.html (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1298/5pescirum.html)
Your speaking for yourself and some others
And it is opinion, Your opinion that some others happen to share.
And yet there are others who do not even come close to sharing your opinion over what was piss poor and what was not.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Your speaking for yourself and some others
And it is opinion, Your opinion that some others happen to share.
Exactly as you are, or did you not notice that?
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And yet there are others who do not even come close to sharing your opinion over what was piss poor and what was not.
Exactly as there are others who do not even come close to sharing your opinion over what was piss poor and what was not.
The difference, of course, is that we've put up with the piss-poor night play for quite a while.
And as HT essentially said when he took the night away, turnabout is fairplay.
I'm sure night will return at some point. That'll be HT's call.Certainly not yours or mine. Until then, I guess our respective opinions are just that.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
For just night?
Kinda silly. Even the people who liked the night dont want it ALL the time.
That's why I'm suggesting two arenas. One for night, and one for day. When you want to fly night, you go to one. When you want the daytime, you go to the other. This would be the ideal solution.
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Originally posted by phookat
That's why I'm suggesting two arenas. One for night, and one for day. When you want to fly night, you go to one. When you want the daytime, you go to the other. This would be the ideal solution.
great! so we split the ever decreasing number in half just because some wont have night for 30 mins every 13 hours!
seems silly
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Originally posted by mechanic
great! so we split the ever decreasing number in half just because some wont have night for 30 mins every 13 hours!
Not really. The night folks don't want night all the time, so they will fly day some of the time. In AH1, some folks logged when night came anyway.
Two arenas is best. Whenever you want to fly night, an arena is available. Whenever you want to fly day, it is available. Isn't that what everyone wants? That way you are not forced to play day when you want the night, and I'm not forced to play the night when I want day.
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and then the night arena would be like the bastad child of the CT. unpopulated and boring, oh, and dark.
night for just 30mins every 13 hours is not such a cross to hold is it?
its all water under the bridge though, seeing as HT doesnt give a rat's arse about this thread by the looks of it :D
either that or he is waiting to see which side wins.....
batfink
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Originally posted by mechanic
and then the night arena would be like the bastad child of the CT. unpopulated and boring, oh, and dark.
According to a lot of the statements in this thread, (1) there are tons of people who want the night back so the night arena should have good numbers, (2) night isn't boring, and (3) dark is good because it is a challenge.
Originally posted by mechanic
night for just 30mins every 13 hours is not such a cross to hold is it?
None of this is much of a cross, on either side. ;)
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Originally posted by phookat
(2) night isn't boring, and (3) dark is good because it is a challenge.
which side are you for again? :D
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Oh absolutley I know that I am only speaking for myself and others who share my feelings.
but there is a difference.
I want to see something thats fair to both camps. not just one as you would have it by having no night at all.
You "put up with piss poor night for quite a while"
You "put up with it" a whole 1/2 hour for every 13. Less then 1/24th of a day.
What a terrible burdon.
Yes I agree our opinions on the matter will probably always differ
and its funny cause I was just thinking and agree that at some point night will probably return
If for no other reason then then the one that he gave to get rid of it.:)
Originally posted by Toad
Exactly as you are, or did you not notice that?
Exactly as there are others who do not even come close to sharing your opinion over what was piss poor and what was not.
The difference, of course, is that we've put up with the piss-poor night play for quite a while.
And as HT essentially said when he took the night away, turnabout is fairplay.
I'm sure night will return at some point. That'll be HT's call.Certainly not yours or mine. Until then, I guess our respective opinions are just that.
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either that or he is waiting to see which side wins.....
batfink [/B]
LMAO I dont know about you but in my time here I've never seen ANY side win on just about any subject
It just becomes a sort of perpetual motion till people get tired of arguing about it for a while.
then it fades away only to be picked up again at a later date
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Originally posted by mechanic
can anyone truly say this doesnt turn them on??
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night2%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night7%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night6%20jpg.JPG) (http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night8%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night5%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night3%20jpg.JPG)
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/5-night%20jpg.JPG)
think of the night fighter skins.
think of the bombing raids!
think of the fun.
think of how much it will piss the people who hate night off :p
BRING BACK NIGHT TIME
when you're ready HT, we definitely are
Batfink
Fire, Fire , FFFFiiiirrrreeee, and more FIRE! Bring on Dark 30.
"I wear my sunglasses at night!"
Gamma dweebs, about face, and piss off!
*** Awesome screenshots, Mechanic!***:aok :cool:
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Originally posted by mechanic
which side are you for again? :D
The correct side. :D
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when i make my nights in h2h i make em last only a hour or so... but i also increase the time multiplier so Even though night comes more often It dont last so long...
it seems to keep most people happy,
But then again ive noticed Every 1 likes whining in this game And that includes me :D
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I'll say it again.....if a significant number of peeps liked, or even TOLERATED night, HT wouldnt have yanked it. (Clouds would be cool tho, imo, but I think they are a server hog)
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Originally posted by bj229r
I'll say it again.....if a significant number of peeps liked, or even TOLERATED night, HT wouldnt have yanked it. (Clouds would be cool tho, imo, but I think they are a server hog)
Noooo a significant amount of people did like night. also a significant amount of people didnt.
HT Yanked it because he wanted to
"Put the whines on the other side of the fence for a while"
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All you non Night fighters need to adjust your monitors...
You can see fine at night Theres always This Huge moon
i admit aah1 night sucked but in ah2 u see just fine
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What is strange is that some people are opposed to night unless there are dedicated night fighters, historical opponents etc, yet are more than happy to 'tolerate' MA inacurracies in day fighting.
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Punt!!!!!!!!!! ;)
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I know, Kev.
They say we shouldn't have night if we can see easily. Yet, they say in the daytime, we shouldn't have any weather conditions OR clouds.
Bunch of hypocritical spoiled whiners.
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Who said that?
You should note, of course, that when the weather was truly bad the missions in WW2 were cancelled.
For example, the Battle of the Bulge had weather that prevented the Allies from doing much flying from 19 until 23 December.
It simply highlights the fact that these are primarily DAY VFR fighters and bombers. A fact which many of you can't seem to grasp or perhaps have no concept of what that means.
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Originally posted by Fruda
They say we shouldn't have night if we can see easily.
Do you want planes to be visible or not? Make up your mind.
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I am sick of vulchfests and the whole daytime routine. I just upped at a base that was under attack and while the rooks were fighting back, it was hopeless. You call that righteous? You call that fair play? A little night time would prevent these things. It puts more emphasis on strategy and fair play. It allows a short amount of time to regroup. I wasn't flying 20 minutes, but I died 3 times. I logged......and now I am wondering if this is really worth the time and trouble. My squad keeps me alive, but this "game" is growing long on the tooth. My $15.00 isn't much in the whole picture, but it is $15.00. That is more money that I can spend elsewhere!
While I have been drinking the Cutthroat ale and fondling the sheep, my participation here is minimal. Now I have to make a decision......after I sleep it off. The future of HTC looks good, but my participation and level of enjoyment looks dim.
Night won't fix my feelings and level of participation, but I find that this is becoming more "political" as time goes on. And IMHO, that sucks!
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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You don't like being vultched, so you want everyone to wear blindfolds.
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this thread has deteriated past any reason.
i give up.
make this game more realistic, or lose customers through boredom id the key i think.
on the otherhand, make the game more realistic, and lose customers.
what a stupid race we humans are.
batfink
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Originally posted by Toad
Can we get weather days in too?
Days when all of Europe on the Baltic map is so socked in you can't takeoff and we all go drink beer in the O-Club?
Typhoon days on the Mindy map where we all spend the day in bomb shelters?
Stuff like that would be soooooooooooo kewl.
They could probably do work on the servers on those days an no one would notice too.
That mean we get supercells and tornadoes in OzKansas? ;)
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Originally posted by phookat
You don't like being vultched, so you want everyone to wear blindfolds.
No.....blindfolds only restrict vision. So does restricting the night. That is a vision and a feature that I like, personally. Want to know how often I log because of boredom? 95%. I only fly 3 or 4 times a week now and it's because I hate what I see. Certainly my skill level has something to do with that, but I would be happy to fly and challenge anyone here....except Leviathon! I will not challenge another Cutthroat.....it's policy. But on even ground and in an even plane and altitude, I might get the victory! I am not a bad pilot, and I enjoy a 1 vs 1.
That said, I am bored to tears. It's harder to kill bases, my guns appear to miss a lot, and I don't have a reason to log on by myself to fly with the rooks because AH2 isn't as cool as AH1. Cooler bases, yes, graphics-well that helps, but it's less satisfying.
I fly scenarios, but they offer variety and anxiety! Something the MA seriously lacks. Maybe you have never flown in a scenario? Other than Squad night, that is my favorite thing to do these days. The whiners have made this game less desirable. Hence, I am selective in when I fly too, and not because of the night! I just believe more folks would support the night as a needed "enhancement".
K-KEN
http://www.cutthroats.com/
(http://www.webdesignbyken.com/images/CMCsmall.gif)
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(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/12-ahss70erte.jpg)
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Originally posted by paulobrien6969
(http://www.flightsims.info/datas/users/12-ahss70erte.jpg)
that image must have been edited or something, because that moon is dark too..........
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Originally posted by Overlag
that image must have been edited or something, because that moon is dark too..........
Good obsevation. I noticed the same thing.
when I first started playing night looked like that for me till I noticed my monitor settings were off. By JUST a little bit and I do mean a little.
But event hen the moon never looked even remotely close to being that dark
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OK here is my last thought on the Night time issue.
I hate it.
Why...because every time i logged on for the few hours i had each evening it was always frikin night time!/
I could live with it if it occured randomly. Not the same time every evening GMT.
BTW WWll online would see me WAY more than it doeas already if it werent night time every time i log on. if i lived in europ it would be fine.
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
OK here is my last thought on the Night time issue.
I hate it.
Why...because every time i logged on for the few hours i had each evening it was always frikin night time!/
I could live with it if it occured randomly. Not the same time every evening GMT.
BTW WWll online would see me WAY more than it doeas already if it werent night time every time i log on. if i lived in europ it would be fine.
Now that arguement makes sence.
Yea it should be more random so it doesnt take place at the same time each night
But really I think this debate has pretty much run its course for the time being
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Originally posted by Toad
Who said that?
You should note, of course, that when the weather was truly bad the missions in WW2 were cancelled.
For example, the Battle of the Bulge had weather that prevented the Allies from doing much flying from 19 until 23 December.
It simply highlights the fact that these are primarily DAY VFR fighters and bombers. A fact which many of you can't seem to grasp or perhaps have no concept of what that means.
guess what?
AH ISN'T RL SO THEREFORE WE CAN FLY IN CLOUDS AND AT NIGHT. IF YOU WANT HISORICAL THEN GO DOWN TO THE CT NOT THE MA.
BRING BACK THE NIGHT!
ok there:)
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YES!