Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on September 08, 2004, 11:53:19 PM
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If this expires does this mean I can get an AR15 for cheaper?
Also....if the ban goes back into place for some reason does that make my weapon illegal or is this considered a "pre ban"?
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IF it passes without incident, the "Pre-Ban" designation will be in a fight for its life. The prices will DEFINATELY come down, how much is anyone's guess.
As far as modifications, that's a toughie bro.
Karaya
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The police of this nation uniformly support the ban. This admin says it supports our police. This admin is going to let the ban lapse.
I dont get it.
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Originally posted by Silat
The police of this nation uniformly support the ban. This admin says it supports our police. This admin is going to let the ban lapse.
I dont get it.
I don't think so. There was a link mentioned some time ago to a forum for police officers. The majority of the rank and file do not support the ban. Hang around gun forums and you will find police officers from around the country who will tell you that.
Do you know what the ban is about?
mauser
*edit* Here is the link to the Police Magazine forums:
http://www.policemag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=300&whichpage=1
a couple of quotes from page 13:
"I would concur, that after 27 years “driving the big blue car” that a law banning any “assault” rifle (weapon) is ridiculous. After all, what is the difference in an “assault Weapon” and a “Defense Weapon”? Or, put another way, we sell cars and motorcycles that will go 180mph, when the speed limit is 70, and bass fishing boats that will go 90 mph, clearly the problem is behavior, not objects. "
"I'm a 19 year veteran Cop. I have held every rank from Patrolman through chief and every assignment from patrol to detective in both line and supervisory positions. I have investigated and supervised the investigations of just about every sort of crime over these nearly two decades, and have worked in Jurisdictions Urban, suburban, and rural. Based upon my experiences I find no value in the assault weapons ban. I have not found this sort of weapon to be prevelent in crime and in the one or two intances where I have seen one, noone was hit by one. Now, I look at the issue from the side of the hobbiest. These are the folks hurt by this law, not the criminals. Time to let this useless law die. I figure anyone who can afford $1000 for a rifle is not really a threat to me. The bangers will get whatever they want anyway and we can get them for what they actually did anyway."
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Supply and demand. At first, the prices will be the same because you still have the same supply, no other guns have been made since then, and the demand might even be a little bit higher.
I'd say give it two to four months before the new guns get rolling out.
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The police of this nation uniformly support the ban.
Since when do cops decide what our rights are?
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I just want those 18 round mags for my Glock 17. The Police have them. The Criminals have them.
But a law abiding citizen with a registered firearm and a permit to carry it can't.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger as the main question of the thread
If this expires does this mean I can get an AR15 for cheaper?
Also....if the ban goes back into place for some reason does that make my weapon illegal or is this considered a "pre ban"?
Originally posted by Silat but not even coming close to staying on thread topic
The police of this nation uniformly support the ban. This admin says it supports our police. This admin is going to let the ban lapse.
I dont get it.
neither do I :rolleyes:
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Read the law. Anybody that does that has the sense god(God) gave a goat, will realize that it is nothing but political posturing.
It's been said many times. Criminals don't care what the law says.
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3 months before the ban went into effect I purchased a CAR-15 for $450. 3 months after the ban went into effect I sold same for $1800. I should have bought 30 of the damned things.....
ABC news used the great LA bank robbery incident as proof that the ban was needed.
What ABC news forgot, or conveniently neglected to mention was the great LA bank robbery incident happened several years AFTER the ban went into effect (if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns) Ya......
Think I will pick up another CAR-15 YA BAYBEE
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Originally posted by Silat
The police of this nation uniformly support the ban. This admin says it supports our police. This admin is going to let the ban lapse.
I dont get it.
Nonsense, rank and file officers haven’t been polled. Police Chiefs (mostly from large Cities) have weighed in. These are Political offices mostly occupied by liberal democrats.
If you have read the law you would know how stupid it is. It contains nothing but feel good leftist labeling and doesn’t do anything at all to address gun violence or death and injuries related to guns.
What you don't get comes from your own ignorance.
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yes wotan is was a crap liberal feel good do nothing law. Six months after the ban was passed I bought a PCR-5 from Olympic Arms (PCR stands for politically correct rifle and was basically a AR-15).
I paid $700 and some change for the PCR-5. The only difference between the PCR-5 and my CAR-15 was the PCR-5 DID NOT have a telescoping buttstock (oooh how evil is that), did not have a bayonet lug (yes, how many children have been bayoneted in the US in the last 150 years?), did not have a flash supressor (I cant see you?) and did not have a short barrel (thats alright, pistols have short barrels, I will use a pistol next time I need a short barrel). Other than that my PCR-5 was a fully functional semi-automatic military styled firearm shooting 5.56 ammo. The PCR-5 was sold with a 10-round magazine in accordance with the weapons ban. Also, the ban outlawed the sale of any magazine holding more than 10 rounds to civilians "IF" said magazine was manufactured "AFTER" the ban went into law. There are many millions of 30, 40 and 50 round magazines in cirulcation that were manufactured before the law went into effect and these are perfectly lawful to own within the confines of the AWB and can be use in weapons manufactured "AFTER" the ban was made into law because the AWB does not say that pre ban magazine can not be used in post ban weapons.....real smart lawmaking but then again, liberals were in power in congress and the oval office when the ban was passed and have not been in power since.
So in essance, all the assault weapons ban does is removal of flash suppressors, bayonet lugs and telescoping/folding stocks. Thats all it does
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sshhhhh, quit tellin em where they ****ed up
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Exactly Yeager,
It banned guns that looked "mean" or scared women. In the end is was just a feel good bone for liberals to flaunt in front of the ignorant masses.
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Originally posted by Wotan
Nonsense, rank and file officers haven’t been polled. Police Chiefs (mostly from large Cities) have weighed in. These are Political offices mostly occupied by liberal democrats.
You got something to support that?
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actually.. a flash suppressor in most cases is a misnomer. For example, the "flash suppressor" on a AR-15 actually increases the size of the muzzle blast as well as the audble sound of the shot. What it does do is limit muzzle rise and felt recoil.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
You got something to support that?
You got something to dispute it?
Silat said it first, so we need to go back to the source.
OR!!!!!!
Just go find out for yourself, because most people don't believe anything unless they hear it for themselves.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
You got something to support that?
Sure I do and you can goggle just like I can. Or are you just lazy?
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no would have done just fine
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Originally posted by Sixpence
no would have done just fine
But 'No' wasn't factual.
Too lazy to find the facts for yourself seems to be closer to the truth.
Google is a wonderfull thing.
Even though Wotan can't spell it:p
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Originally posted by Lazerus
But 'No' wasn't factual.
Don't make me use the roll eyes. There is nothing to support it, so 'no' is factual
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I am not responsible for your education and have no interest in proving anything to you especially when the proof is already available to you at the click of a mouse.
I am not your Mommy.
As Lazerus already pointed out; Silat makes an outrageous claim...
The police of this nation uniformly support the ban
The burden of proof rests with him.
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No, there are pages and pages of information on the intardnet to support it, and reams of written(they still do that) reports on the subject. The point is that if you want to know the truth, go find it. There is nothing that anyone can tell you or link on this site that will make you change your mind. If you research the subject yourself, and I mean research facts, not editorials, you will respect the information and might be able to take off your blinders and make a true judgement. Otherwise, keep watching reruns of southpark.
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Again, the answer is no.
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It is if you are dishonest and lazy...
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http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/faqs/?page=awb
Q: Does law enforcement support the ban on assault weapons?
A: Every major national law enforcement organization in the country supported the federal assault weapons ban and worked for its passage. Among the many law enforcement organization that supported the ban are the Law Enforcement Steering Committee, the Fraternal Order of Police, the National Sheriffs' Association, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the Major City Chiefs Association, the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, the National Association of Police Organizations
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Originally posted by Wotan
It is if you are dishonest and lazy...
Is that why you don't provide support of your statement?
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Hm.. I put a link to a forum populated by, amongst others, law enforcement officers and how they support the death of the AWB because it's a silly law that doesn't really do anything to help them. The law is boiled down here by everyone else and in other threads on the BBS past and present. And Sixpence still wants proof. Must be trolling.
With the knowledge that prices will go down... an AR is starting to sound like a good buy..
mauser
*edit* You cite information from the BRADY CAMPAIGN?? Of all the places. Did you bother to even look at the Police magazine link?
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Originally posted by mauser
Hm.. I put a link to a forum populated by, amongst others, law enforcement officers and how they support the death of the AWB because it's a silly law that doesn't really do anything to help them. The law is boiled down here by everyone else and in other threads on the BBS past and present. And Sixpence still wants proof. Must be trolling.
mauser
Well, post the link, I posted one, how is that trolling?
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Look at my first post in this thread dated 09-08-2004 09:37 PM. The link is there, as is a couple of quotes.
mauser
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Here is some more http://feinstein.senate.gov/04Releases/awb.html
"The assault weapons ban has proven to be effective since it was enacted. In fact, the proportion of banned assault weapons traced to crimes has dropped by 65.8% since 1995, according to data from the Department of Justice. In 1995, the first year that the ban went into effect, assault weapons represented 3.57 percent of all crime guns recovered from crimes. By 2002, assault weapons represented only 1.22 percent of the number of guns used in crimes."
“Although I voted against the ban a decade ago, over the past ten years, it has reduced crime dramatically and has made our streets safer, The legislation also has protected the rights of gun owners better than many of us predicted. I'm pleased to join President Bush in supporting a reasonable extension of this important law.” - John W. Warner (R-VA)
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Originally posted by Sixpence
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/faqs/?page=awb
Q: Does law enforcement support the ban on assault weapons?
A: Every major national law enforcement organization in the country supported the federal assault weapons ban and worked for its passage. Among the many law enforcement organization that supported the ban are the Law Enforcement Steering Committee, the Fraternal Order of Police, the National Sheriffs' Association, the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the Major City Chiefs Association, the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, the National Association of Police Organizations
That's not a source it's a statement from a propaganda website. They cite political organizations not polls of rank file officers.
FYI the "sources" would be found in the endnotes.
You can find proof by doing a search all on your own. You clearly are familiar with the intardnet to find the above.
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Try again
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Feinstein and Brady is your "proof"? Are you serious?
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Originally posted by Wotan
Feinstein and Brady is your "proof"? Are you serious?
Where is yours, at least I provide something
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Originally posted by Otto
I just want those 18 round mags for my Glock 17. The Police have them. The Criminals have them.
But a law abiding citizen with a registered firearm and a permit to carry it can't.
But you CAN already, unless there's something at your state/city/county level that says otherwise. You just need to pay 300% prices for 'pre-ban' merchandise is all. I've got 6 pre-ban high-cap mags for my Glocks, all 100% legal and without need for permit..
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Wording of the Assault Weapons ban from the law itself, from the 103rd Congress:
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/laws/majorlaw/h3355_en.htm
Go to "TITLE XI--FIREARMS SUBTITLE A--ASSAULT WEAPONS"
Under "DEFINITION OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPON"
`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means--
`(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the
firearms in any caliber, known as--
`(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);
`(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and
Galil;
`(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
`(iv) Colt AR-15;
`(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
`(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
`(vii) Steyr AUG;
`(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
`(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar
to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
`(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a
detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath
the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a bayonet mount;
`(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to
accommodate a flash suppressor; and
`(v) a grenade launcher;
`(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a
detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
`(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol
outside of the pistol grip;
`(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel
extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
`(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or
completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the
shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand
without being burned;
`(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the
pistol is unloaded; and
`(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and
`(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--
`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath
the action of the weapon;
`(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
`(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.'.
Once again... APPEARANCE. Look up what a Mini-14 is and look up what an AR-15 is.
mauser
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Originally posted by Sixpence
at least I provide something
That may mean something to a liberal but as far as I can see you provided nothing that either proves Silat's claim or disproves my reply to him.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Try again
Yes, you should.
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Originally posted by Wotan
That may mean something to a liberal but as far as I can see you provided nothing
Like you provided nothing
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Originally posted by Lazerus
Yes, you should.
And I meant to find a report, not an editorial. And a factual report.
But, it's not my resposibility to educate you.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
But, it's not my resposibility to educate you.
or yourself it seems
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Are you only going to believe reports and ignore what's coming from the horses mouth?
Besides the Police Magazine forum, here's another from a long time police officer who helps to moderate The High Road, Oleg Volk's Second Amendment forum:
Some national police organizations support gun control because the Clinton administration bought their support with DOJ grants. Many of the organizations who are supporting renewal have memberships that are made up of politically appointed administrators, not street cops.
I hadn't heard that the FOP was supporting renewal. Considering the flack they took from the rank and file membership over their support for gun control in the early 90s, I'm surprised they take any position. The FOP is a labor union, just like the Teamsters and Steelworkers. As a labor organization they often take the democratic party line on all issues.
To say that all peace officers support renewal of the AWB because some professional oganizations do is just incorrect. In fact any time rank and file officers have been polled, they have always favored RKBA in big numbers. The Southern Police Benevolent Association poll is a good example.
If you say the police officer support renewal bcause their administrators do, or because their union hacks do, is the same as making the same statement about Teamsters, Steelworkers and almost every other union. Are you prepared to paint the rank and file of every labor union in the country with that broad brush?
Jeff
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Originally posted by mauser
Are you only going to believe reports and ignore what's coming from the horses mouth?
So if I find officers that support , I am right?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
So if I find officers that support , I am right?
Geez. Silat said that the officers of this NATION support the AWB. We said this is not true. You keep asking us for proof. There is ample evidence that what Silat said is FALSE. Just what is it that YOU'RE trying to say?
mauser
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Originally posted by mauser
Geez. Silat said that the officers of this NATION support the AWB. We said this is not true. You keep asking us for proof. There is ample evidence that what Silat said is FALSE. Just what is it that YOU'RE trying to say?
mauser
No, I asked wotan to back what he said, that all big city police depts are liberals
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Originally posted by Yeager
yes wotan is was a crap liberal feel good do nothing law. Six months after the ban was passed I bought a PCR-5 from Olympic Arms (PCR stands for politically correct rifle and was basically a AR-15).
I paid $700 and some change for the PCR-5. The only difference between the PCR-5 and my CAR-15 was the PCR-5 DID NOT have a telescoping buttstock (oooh how evil is that), did not have a bayonet lug (yes, how many children have been bayoneted in the US in the last 150 years?), did not have a flash supressor (I cant see you?) and did not have a short barrel (thats alright, pistols have short barrels, I will use a pistol next time I need a short barrel). Other than that my PCR-5 was a fully functional semi-automatic military styled firearm shooting 5.56 ammo. The PCR-5 was sold with a 10-round magazine in accordance with the weapons ban. Also, the ban outlawed the sale of any magazine holding more than 10 rounds to civilians "IF" said magazine was manufactured "AFTER" the ban went into law. There are many millions of 30, 40 and 50 round magazines in cirulcation that were manufactured before the law went into effect and these are perfectly lawful to own within the confines of the AWB and can be use in weapons manufactured "AFTER" the ban was made into law because the AWB does not say that pre ban magazine can not be used in post ban weapons.....real smart lawmaking but then again, liberals were in power in congress and the oval office when the ban was passed and have not been in power since.
So in essance, all the assault weapons ban does is removal of flash suppressors, bayonet lugs and telescoping/folding stocks. Thats all it does
Yep, what the man said. I consider the ban one of the great political moves ever made. It does nothing but give the gun folks a reason to be able to continue shouting that the Dems are going to take your guns away.
The "postban" AR15 that I have looks just like a preban except for the bayonet lug and the flash suppressor not being there. It shoots the same, holds a 30 round mag, etc etc.
My son is an AK fan and there are 4 of them he has, all semi- auto AKs that look like the real deal except for the bayone lug.
In the end, the Ban did nothing but raise prices on "prebans" and it's sunsetting will hurt the gun sellers more then anything else as those preban prices drop to the ground.
Dan/Slack
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Where did he say that "ALL big city police are liberals?" I read his post and he never says that. All he said was
Police Chiefs (mostly from large Cities) have weighed in. These are Political offices mostly occupied by liberal democrats.
But I digress, he can defend himself adequately.
Back on topic, it seems that since some states have their own AWB (like California), the sunset won't affect them. Is this true? My state has a semi-AWB in that you can't have mags with more than ten rounds. But at least you can still have an AR or HK.
mauser
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Originally posted by Wotan
Nonsense, rank and file officers haven’t been polled. Police Chiefs (mostly from large Cities) have weighed in. These are Political offices mostly occupied by liberal democrats.
If you have read the law you would know how stupid it is. It contains nothing but feel good leftist labeling and doesn’t do anything at all to address gun violence or death and injuries related to guns.
What you don't get comes from your own ignorance.
Originally posted by Sixpence
No, I asked wotan to back what he said, that all big city police depts are liberals
He never said that.
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quote:Originally posted by Wotan
Nonsense, rank and file officers haven’t been polled. Police Chiefs (mostly from large Cities) have weighed in. These are Political offices mostly occupied by liberal democrats.
Originally posted by Sixpence
You got something to support that?
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I asked him for links to back up what he said, is that better?
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No, it's not better. The mindset that put out the statement is there. It will never change.
Originally posted by Sixpence
No, I asked wotan to back what he said, that all big city police depts are liberals
I'm sure it's all the same to you. And it always will be.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
I'm sure it's all the same to you. And it always will be.
Nice dodge
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No dodge. I stated my position about 40 posts ago.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
He quoted the brady campaign? And Feinstein?
:rofl :rofl
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And what was that?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
:rofl :rofl :rofl
He quoted the brady campaign? And Feinstein?
:rofl :rofl
Not Feinstein, read again, if you can
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Short attention span? No ability to find out for yoursel...................... ...........................
Oh, wait, nevermind.
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Sixpense now you are outright lying..
I never said:
that all big city police depts are liberals
Anyone who wants "proof" can simply go back and read what I said.
You are pretty pathetic to resort to lying when anyone can read for themslves exactly what is in my replies.
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:rofl
Sixpence, you get funnier everytime you talk. Keep it up, this forum needs a good comedian what with Nash gone.
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If only he had boobies in his avatar...............
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Sixpence, you get funnier everytime you talk. Keep it up, this forum needs a good comedian what with Nash gone.
Hey , you read it wrong, get over it
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Off topic
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Off topic
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Off topic
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Inflammatory
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Not Feinstein, read again, if you can
Are you insane?
This is the link you provided above
http://feinstein.senate.gov/04Releases/awb.html
Feinstein dot senate dot gov
Not Feinstein? Do you even remember what you type?
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Originally posted by Wotan
Are you insane?
This is the link you provided above
http://feinstein.senate.gov/04Releases/awb.html
Feinstein dot senate dot gov
Not Feinstein? Do you even remember what you type?
and this is what I quoted
“Although I voted against the ban a decade ago, over the past ten years, it has reduced crime dramatically and has made our streets safer, The legislation also has protected the rights of gun owners better than many of us predicted. I'm pleased to join President Bush in supporting a reasonable extension of this important law.” - John W. Warner (R-VA)
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Originally posted by Sixpence
I asked for him to show me proof of what he said, he can't, it's that simple. But you can keep posting for him if you want, do you hold his schlong while he pees too?
Umm, you asked for proof of something that was never posted. I told you that I assumed you were a big boy now and could educate yourself.
No, I asked wotan to back what he said, that all big city police depts are liberals
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Off topic
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Originally posted by Lazerus
Umm, you asked for proof of something that was never posted. I told you that I assumed you were a big boy now and could educate yourself.
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I asked for proof of what he said, but you would rather twist something I mistated later, nice dodge
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You took that from Senator Feinstein's webpage...
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There is no twist, there was no mistatement. Like I said to start with, educate yourself. It's pretty simple.
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Originally posted by Wotan
You took that from Senator Feinstein's webpage...
That I did, but I did not quote her. I asked for something to back up what you said, I think it is not based on fact at all, so I ask. I've known two police chiefs, both are conservative, to say the least. Ronald Reagan and Rudy both supported the ban too, and I would not call them liberals either
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Originally posted by Wotan
Nonsense, rank and file officers haven’t been polled. Police Chiefs (mostly from large Cities) have weighed in. These are Political offices mostly occupied by liberal democrats.
If you have read the law you would know how stupid it is. It contains nothing but feel good leftist labeling and doesn’t do anything at all to address gun violence or death and injuries related to guns.
What you don't get comes from your own ignorance.
What are you asking him to prove?
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Police Chiefs (mostly from large Cities) have weighed in. These are Political offices mostly occupied by liberal democrats
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Police Chiefs (mostly from large Cities) have weighed in. These are Political offices mostly occupied by liberal democrats
Originally posted by Sixpence
No, I asked wotan to back what he said, that all big city police depts are liberals
Are you sure?
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Inflammatory/Off topic
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Where is yours, at least I provide something
WHAT POLICE REALLY THINK
ABOUT GUN CONTROL MANIA
The San Diego Police Officers Association polled its members about gun control on 05 May 1997
and published the results in their official newsletter, "The Informant".
Note that the actual questions asked are stated here to prevent confusion. Anyone who has taken a survey knows the pitfalls of vague or misleading questions.
1. Do you support an assault weapons ban? NO - 82.1%
2. Do you support a limitation on magazine capacity? NO - 82.2%
3. Do you support a law-abiding private citizen's right to carry a concealed weapon? YES - 84.9%
4. Do you believe that armed, law-abiding citizens are a threat to you as a police officer? NO - 87.8%
5. Have recent gun laws (weapons bans, magazine capacity limits, and increased waiting periods) reduced violent crime in your area? NO - 94.2%
6. Would you support a point of sale background check (instant check) for the purchase of a firearm? YES - 92.1%
7. Does gun ownership by private citizens increase public safety? YES - 87.1%
8. Do you believe the criminal justice system needs streamlining and reform? YES - 99.2%
9. Do you believe in the death penalty? YES - 99.2%
10. Do you believe that restrictive gun laws will reduce violent crime? NO - 92.1%
11. Do you believe that gun buy-back or turn-in programs take guns out of the hands of criminals? NO - 98.5%
12. Do you believe that misuse of a firearm in a crime should result in stiff, mandatory sentences with no plea bargaining? YES - 95.6%
These results are consistent with similar polls taken all across the U.S. for over 20 years.
Please contact the San Diego Police Officers Association for copies of this poll or talk to your local police officer about his/her views on gun control.
Hmmm.... seems pretty clear to me where your avg. police officer stands on this issue.
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Originally posted by flyingaround
WHAT POLICE REALLY THINK
ABOUT GUN CONTROL MANIA
The San Diego Police Officers Association polled its members about gun control on 05 May 1997
and published the results in their official newsletter, "The Informant".
Note that the actual questions asked are stated here to prevent confusion. Anyone who has taken a survey knows the pitfalls of vague or misleading questions.
1. Do you support an assault weapons ban? NO - 82.1%
2. Do you support a limitation on magazine capacity? NO - 82.2%
3. Do you support a law-abiding private citizen's right to carry a concealed weapon? YES - 84.9%
4. Do you believe that armed, law-abiding citizens are a threat to you as a police officer? NO - 87.8%
5. Have recent gun laws (weapons bans, magazine capacity limits, and increased waiting periods) reduced violent crime in your area? NO - 94.2%
6. Would you support a point of sale background check (instant check) for the purchase of a firearm? YES - 92.1%
7. Does gun ownership by private citizens increase public safety? YES - 87.1%
8. Do you believe the criminal justice system needs streamlining and reform? YES - 99.2%
9. Do you believe in the death penalty? YES - 99.2%
10. Do you believe that restrictive gun laws will reduce violent crime? NO - 92.1%
11. Do you believe that gun buy-back or turn-in programs take guns out of the hands of criminals? NO - 98.5%
12. Do you believe that misuse of a firearm in a crime should result in stiff, mandatory sentences with no plea bargaining? YES - 95.6%
These results are consistent with similar polls taken all across the U.S. for over 20 years.
Please contact the San Diego Police Officers Association for copies of this poll or talk to your local police officer about his/her views on gun control.
Now there is at least something, btw, can you provide a link?
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Off topic
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The major police departments and unions often come out on favor of or opposed to certain legislation that their members may not agree with. This also happens to other professions, teachers being the first to come to my mind. Such is the very nature of collective bargaining and unions in general. Add political clout and connections to the mix and it becomes inevitable.
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http://www.guncite.com/aswpolice.html
Here are some from both sides
To counter the statements of pro-rights rank-and-file officers such as the firearms examiners or Leroy Pyle, Handgun Control, Inc. often points to the Fraternal Order of Police. The FOP is the largest rank-and-file police organization in the country; its head, Dewey Stokes, supports "assault weapon" control, and Stokes was recently re-elected to his position despite a challenge from a pro-gun officer. [95]
95. One percent of the approximately 225,000 Fraternal Order of Police members attended the convention, and Stokes won the vote 68% of the attendees. It might be that delegates to the police conventions, like delegates to NRA conventions, or to Democratic or Republican conventions, hold views more extreme than held by the membership as a whole.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
supports "assault weapon" control
What does that have to do with the law in question?
Go buy a dictionary. Better yet, open your mind to differing points of view.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
No, I asked wotan to back what he said, that all big city police depts are liberals
What does what you posted have anything to do with what you posted earlier?
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Originally posted by Sixpence
That I did, but I did not quote her. I asked for something to back up what you said, I think it is not based on fact at all, so I ask. I've known two police chiefs, both are conservative, to say the least. Ronald Reagan and Rudy both supported the ban too, and I would not call them liberals either
GWB supports extending the ban as well, so what? Where did I say "only liberals support extending the ban" or that "all Police that support extending the ban are liberals"?
No where.
You could have easily offered a link to Sen. Warner's web page or quoted a news outlet.
Incidentally, Warner was a co-sponsor with Feinstein on an amendment added to legislation that would have shielded fire arms manufactures from lawsuits. After this amendment was added the bill failed. The original sponsor of the lawsuit shield bill and the NRA pulled their support for it.
What Warner and Bush are doing is playing both sides of the fence. Warner was opposed to the awb the firts time. They know there will be no extension and as such they support it to look good to "women voters".
How's that search coming? It's would seem to me that if I wanted evidence of a specific point I would search for that rather then all the other non-sense you posted.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
What does what you posted have anything to do with what you posted earlier?
What does that have to do with what I asked him?
here is another liberal (http://www.csgv.org/docUploads/Reagan%20Report%2Epdf)
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Sure, here is the link.
http://www.gospelweb.net/sandiegopolice.htm
If you REALLY want to know what the avg. "beat" cop thinks, go to the link below and start reading.
http://www.policemag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=300
It is a BBS for Police Magazine, and the link is to the "tell us what you think Re. Assault Weapon Ban". 14 pages of good reading about what the typical police officer thinks.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Now there is at least something, btw, can you provide a link?
I searched Yahoo using "San Diego Police Assault Weapon" and got hits. The first one was this:
http://www.nrawinningteam.com/awsurvey.html
Which shows a scan of the pertinent page in The Informant, which is the SD PD Assoc. newsletter.
mauser
*edit* oops, flying already got it. And reposted the link to the Police magazine forums which will get ignored. Again.
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Originally posted by flyingaround
Sure, here is the link.
http://www.gospelweb.net/sandiegopolice.htm
If you REALLY want to know what the avg. "beat" cop thinks, go to the link below and start reading.
http://www.policemag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=300
It is a BBS for Police Magazine, and the link is to the "tell us what you think Re. Assault Weapon Ban". 14 pages of good reading about what the typical police officer thinks.
Very good links, I like the reading on the Patriot act also
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Originally posted by Sixpence
What does that have to do with what I asked him?
LOL, that is my point exactly. It has no relevance to what you asked him.
I don't really like talking to one liberal, why would I want to read specious arguments from another liberal.
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support assault ban = liberal, got it
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Originally posted by Sixpence
support assault ban = liberal, got it
No, I don't "got it"
There has never been an assault weapon ban in America. GOT IT?
There was a law that was passed to appease those of lower intelligence that believe that a carbon stock on a rifle meant that it was an assault gun.
"GOT IT"?
The law was useless when it was passed.
"GOT IT"?
Your argument this entire thread has been that someone didn't take you by the hand and show you the answers.
"GOT IT"?
One more thing
Got Constitution?
Read it.
Sad thing is I don't expect you will. I can't educate you. I can't show you the difference in political ideology. The only person that can make you do that is you. I hope that you study what has really transpired, politicaly and socialy, and make a wise decision based on your own findings. Not those of the biased websites and media that are so prevalent now.
Good luck to you.
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and you too
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Were you appeased?
Seems like it.
Open your eyes bud. Read both sides with an open mind.
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That is a 2 way street
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Easy to say, you obviously have trouble with the truth
quote:Originally posted by Sixpence
No, I asked wotan to back what he said, that all big city police depts are liberals
My post was sincere. GL to you.
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Originally posted by Silat
The police of this nation uniformly support the ban. This admin says it supports our police. This admin is going to let the ban lapse.
I dont get it.
In all honesty, I think you are confusing the police (those guys on the street, seeing reality, with their tulips on the line), with the geniuses that get selected as chiefs and administrative idiots.
Sorry bud, but what you think is the police, isn't. It's just a bunch of overpaid yoyo's that makes the work of the real police twice as dangerous and twice as difficult.
Take it from a guy who was actually on the road and in the car, getting shot at, whose father did about 20 years of the same. Talk to the Sgt. or the beat cop to find out what the REAL police want.
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Relatives of mine are there. They laugh at it, only because of the idiocy of the ban, not because it makes there job that much harder.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
GL to you.
You too
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LOL
and thx
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yw
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Off topic
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Off Topic
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Supply and demand. At first, the prices will be the same because you still have the same supply, no other guns have been made since then, and the demand might even be a little bit higher.
I'd say give it two to four months before the new guns get rolling out.
They have been made. They have just been designated "LE only". (Law Enforcement only). There will definitely be a supply of semi-automatic weapons that currently fall into the "assault rifle" category.
Terror
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Originally posted by Silat
The police of this nation uniformly support the ban. This admin says it supports our police. This admin is going to let the ban lapse.
I dont get it.
Silat,
Frankly, you had better put some documentation for your statement. I was in Law Enforcement prior to the ban and during it. I found NO support for the ban among fellow Officers.
Increasing penalties for illegal gun usage was a great concern of ours. It didn't have any real support among the pols however as it would increase the prison population.
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Guns
Even with it exspiring nationaly, you will NOT be able to buy one in Cali.
Cali has it's own, more strict ban on asault rifles.
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seems that real beat cops agree with me in that they trust their fellow citizens with firearms and even concealled carry.... They feel armed citizens are a help to them and that gun control laws only help criminals...
curval... I know you don't trust my opinion but certainly you would believe those who are at risk every day and have the most at stake?
lazs