Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Suave1 on January 07, 2001, 07:27:00 PM
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Today while in the ma arena I jump an f4u and blow it's wing and tail off . It is tumbling down to the ground as I break off . Then swoops in this guy named Machine in an f4u and blows my would be kill all to hell . I asked him if he saw that it had no wing, then I asked him why then did he do it . His response was basically "yeah so , deal with it" . Is there something wrong with me because I'm bothered by this ?
I've heard it said a lot that it's a small minority of unsavory characters that foul the community, but I'm beginning to think that it's the nice guys that are the minority .
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machine is a hella good pilot, maybe you should improve your SA, forget the kill you thought was yours and check you 6
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"see the soldier with his gun, who must be dead to be admired."
-gordon lightfoot "Don Quixote"
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My SA ? I have to watchout for friendlies now ? Wasn't a comment on his skill .
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Loser you are an idiot and well named.
Suave it happens.The majority of the community are a good bunch.Just ignore the obvious retards.
Frodo
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I agree with 2 things.
1) NO, nobody should try to steal a kill that way.
2) Loser is an idiot and well named.
To bore in and shoot at a plane that has obviously taken a fatal hit is one of the crappiest things a player can do. Suave, I have only seen this a couple of times, and it really pisses me off when I do. Believe me, the majority of the guys are good players, and good people. Too bad a few bad attitudes can spoil the game.
In can happen for a player to not realize a plane is going in, but normally when that happens a decent guy will recognize his mistake and apologize.
Focus on the good things, try to ignore the bad.
Dago
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Yeah, it sometimes happens...if you just can't stand it, pump enough ammo into your prey that it is certain to be your fodder. Otherwise, kill just like you currently do, and live with the fact that some people will dive in and steal your kill for whatever reason. Either way, it was YOU who killed the bandit. You may lose some points here and there because of it, which can suck now because of perks, but jerks will be jerks. In my experience most guys will leave it alone if they see it flailing toward the ground (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
SOB
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It's best just to let it go... I think we've all had it happen to us before. You called him on it without getting irate (which is good)... but there is no way you can keep him from doing it again if he wants. Won't be very popular with his fellow countrymen though. I have almost done this on accident a few times (it is possible)... and felt horrible about it. It all evens out... I get and occasion kill sitting on a runway miles from any action... just the AH God's evening things out and righting the wrongs.
I almost died laughing once when I shot a bombers wing off... then watched TWO! pilots repeatedly miss while trying to hit it on the way down.
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Now that there is a real game reason for points (ala the perk system) I have seen it happen more often. You shoot a planes tail off and while it's spinning (sliding) down another pilot dives in and zaps it getting the kill. It ain't uncommon and it's going to become epidemic. Points and perks are going to be the drivers on this one. Wait until the first big perk planes get here. There will be a lot of kill stealing.
And yes the MA is very rude nowadays. It's getting to be very "Simpsonesque"
Mav
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Suave, it does happen. Best thing to do is make em POP so there's nothing left. I know that means more ammo so you either have to raise your hit %, hold fire till your close or just realise some folks wil do anything to boost thier own self worth. Like a hyena they'll latch onto someones elses kill.
But some folks do it by accident. I've done it a few times not realising the bogy was spinning down disabled and not trying to just roll out of combat. If I have a chance I always try to apologize to anyone whom I've stolen a kill from. Except for Gadly. I savoured it that time as he just done the same to a squaddie a few minutes prior (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-07-2001).]
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Suave,
It happens. I had something similar happen a month ago. I had a guy smoking and blew his wing off. As he was freefalling and tumbling to Earth, I kept firing away, trying to make him pop. One of my own guys was trying to vulch the kill and flew in front of my crosshairs. Did some damage to him and he got all upset at ME.
Just remember those nature channels where you see the lion with its fresh kill: defend it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Paul
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Suave, the kill system is all screwed up. You can shoot a guy all to pieces yet if one of his buddies kills you before his buddy hits the ground, you lose the kill. At the same time though, a guy can simply be flying close to your ack and he gets wacked by the ack yet you get the kill? Tell me that isn't a screwed up system. I don't know how many times I will have just gotten into my plane in the hanger and I get a kill no sooner thn i start my engine. There's other obvious problems also, not to mention the ol'd "the last guy to ping the bogey gets the kill" problem. Some say its the person who does the most damage. I don't agree with it. It should be that the kill goes to the person who "fatally" wounds the aircraft. If you shoot off the elevator with 2 pings, then you should get the kill. Period.
fscott
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This is EXACTLY the reason why I gun my target ALL TO HELL, so some friendly dipshit doesnt pop in and STEAL my damned kill.
Its those damned AW guys I tell ya. In WBs we had a creedo of HONOR LOL!!!
Hehehe....
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I agree... if something critical (like their rear fuselage!) goes, you should get the kill.
I personally dislike when you are gunning a con, and a country person zooms in between you and the con (into your stream of hot lead!) so you have to cease fire to avoid the kill shooter! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
[This message has been edited by iculus (edited 01-07-2001).]
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Gawd this happens to me all the time. I prolly have more assists then kills at the momment.
So lately I've left my tracers on and taken a lesson from Chuck Yeager.
Nothin speaks louder then a few rounds over the cockpit yanno?
Loved that about AW and the PNG Status. You could pop one and still get away with it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
- Jig
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Award the Kill to the player that does the most damage and this problem goes away. Fighter Ace once had the same problem. This turns what was once a problem into a positive. Players started thanking one another for "...finishing him for me"!
I would also like to point out that this type of behavior doesn't "just happen".
Let's not be so quick to dismiss the actions of players like MACHINE that are disruptive and unsportsmanlike. MACHINE made a conscious choice to act the way he did. Will there always be jerks? Yes. Does the community have to suffer their actions in silence? Definitely not.
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The first thing you do when you logon is .squelch 1. Get that out of the way.
Now, if your own teammates steal kills from you, there's a very simple answer. Remember them. The next time they come screaming down the valley with a bogey in pursuit, do this:
Fly above the bogey chasing him... and then keep on going.
That sends the message pretty well, I find.
X2
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Hit em hard! if they dont trial smoke and spiral or explode you shoulda hit em harder (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
If you are in a 'hot' zone then think of it this way: one less person who can kill you regardless of who gets the kill, you are mutually benifiting all the greens, if someone wants to blow all their E to try to steal your kill then just dont go to their help when they get into trouble.
There always will be idiots that do it.
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 01-08-2001).]
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I make it a point to bail out as soon as I can so that the guy who caused my kite to be unflyable gets credit for the kill he earned.
The problem is partially the fault of guys who insist on riding the dead airplane all 15,000ft down.
That said, I will stay in cockpit if I downed somebody and have not net received credit for it. Doing that is, of course, just hoping he hits the ground before you do.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Don't get upset Suave,
1. machine is a beginner ;-) Saw him flying around so look @ 3.
2. not much of that steal-kill stuff in the arena that I observe. Just one of the little annoying things of life. See maneuver kills you get for free as the opposite of it.
3. I got to admit: I did it once or twice early in the game when I went days without a kill and got _really_ frustrated. I didn't steal kills but dove on a clear prey of someone else and blew them to pieces. I always appologized though and winged for them once or twice to make up ;-) Mostly guys weren't too upset.
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Originally posted by prz:
Don't get upset Suave,
1. machine is a beginner ;-) Saw him flying around so look @ 3.
I wouldn't call him a "beginner". He's been around since Tour 10. That's long enough to understand that if a plane is derelict it's already dead.
-SW
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Yeah Suave, this problem is also related to the damage model-flight model. Half-wing flying guys are like honey for bears, they attract kill-stealers.
Fighters flying with half a wing, fighters flying without both ailerons, fighters flying without both wingtips ... I'd like to see HTC fixing these thing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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You think you have the corner on the kill stealing market?
If memory serves, didn't a certain pair of P-38 pilots compete with each other, one even loosing alot of wingmen?
Hans.
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Don't forget error, we all can do error !
Ie lst week I've stealed a kill to a squadmate without knowing I was doing it !
(I've figured it see the film after)
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I shot at a Spitfire that I thought was still intact. I blasted it. At the last second I seen it had no stabilizer. So it was basically dead. I got the kill and in turn stole it from Mathman. I apoligized but he never type back to me. I felt like a big chump! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
But to type "Deal with it" kinda stinks. Maybe that is the only way he can get kills.
Recently if my shots do the major damage and the plane is basically dead, I ended up with the kill. Regardless of how many others hit it. On the flip side I have killed a manuevering and fighting plane that had smoke or fuel leak and only got assist.
Oh Well! As long as the bastard is down!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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too many dweebs shooting at to few targets.
(http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/net3/outtahere.gif)
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It happens. I've done it and it has happened to me. Last I checked this was a team game.
Eagler
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Some people think "team game" means you clear your team mate's 6. Others think it means you shoot the same plane they are shooting at.
AKDejaVu
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re- Half wing fliers.
I'm a new user... and one of the unexpected joys I got when getting shot up time and time again is that sometimes, in certain planes, if I lose part of a wing, I can still manage to try for home base, or even friendly territory.
I agree- planes with both wings partially removed will not fly, but planes missing only one control surface will (try finding some pictures of planes that made it home in WW2... you'd be surprised what kind of damage a plane can take, esp. the bombers). If I get bounced bad and the bogey only managed to get one wingtip, and doesn't finish me off, I'm not going to give up til I either hit the silk, manage to land somewhere, or die trying. If that means he shoulda finished me off when he got the chance, so be it.
Anyhoo... great game, I'll be checkin financial statements at the end of the month to see ifluff'n I can't register for a couple.
*S* and regards,
Jay.
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There is a difference between teamwork and ill manners . If he had apologized or something it wouldn't have bothered me, but instead he threw me this "yep and I'd do it again" attitude. This guy wasn't clearing my six or shooting the plane the same time I was . And the plane wasn't missing just half a wing . It was missing a whole wing and stabalizers, falling like a flaming sack of watermelon .
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this does happen now and again...few days ago i shot tail surface off an f4 and saw him slowly spiral down..i then turned my attention to other enemy and expected to see the kill message but i noticed friendlies chasing it down...I was alittle annoyed but i carried on fighting..when the assist( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) ) message appeared i looked down and saw the friendly had chased it to the deck almost and there were several enemy converging on him so i left him to it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
you get your own rewards for stealing kills..i would have helped anyone whos being bounced and i can quite understand mistakes being made ive done that too but i always appologise, usually before the message comes up, if i feel ive shot a plane that is going down.
However sometimes i have chased a con for miles working them lower only to have a friendly swoop in and kill them.this is the only situation where i might pop a few rounds in for an assist but this is very rare and only because i feel cheated out of a reward for hard work (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
All i can say is 'if you dont do the work you dont deserve the kill' so pick a target that is not engaged already if possible..wait, watch them try to vulch their teammates kills and pounce on them, much like what happened to the pilot who stole my kill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
hazed
greed will get them killed.one day they may realise patience and teamwork will get more kills than trying to steal stricken planes.
[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 01-08-2001).]
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One thing about this thread that somewhat irritates me is the title.
How many times has this happened Suave1? Would you say it happens most of the time? More often than not? A percentage of the time?
Does that really make it a "majority" issue?
AKDejaVu
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that one burns everybody - everyone has had it happen or has done it - sometimes it is an accident - especially if the plane isnt smoking...i wanted to shake some guy this weekend for stealing my kill, but didnt say anything and later he came on and apologized - so it isnt always intentional
it happens most if you are flying the type of plane where you really have to work at it to get the kill (little guns, weird flight characteristics..etc) and someone whos packin cannons comes and splits em while you are working a turn or something! forces you to work on your gunnery though -
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Yes AKdejavu things like this happen a lot everyday and with increasing frequency, Simpsonesque, as Maverick very aptly described it . You have to remember that the majority of AH players don't even read the BB, and a lot of them are just two week wonders .
[This message has been edited by Suave1 (edited 01-08-2001).]
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Been playing quite a bit Suave1.. I've yet to have this happen since I started playing 1.05. I can count on one hand how many times I've seen it happen before then.
You use the word "majority". I do not think it means what you think it means.
When you see something happen in the MA... feel free to come here and squeak about it. Just don't come off like its all that happens these days. "Increasingly" does not a majority make.
AKDejaVu
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Gun the target all to hell?
The last kill I got I only connected with my last 3 bullets!
I have a hard enough time gunnin' 'em at all!
hehe
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Kratzer
Geschwader Kommodore
LuftJägerKorps
http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/ (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/)
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I disagree with you akdejavu . I know only a few AH players that I would consider nice guys . Much like the real world . When I say few I mean a double digit figure.
I come home from work shaking my head thinking "people suck", and sit down to relax with some AH . I end up logging off thinking "yep, people suck" .
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Wow Suave1... I guess the difference between you and I is you still feel you are a nice guy after making posts like this.
AKDejaVu
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Deja what do you fly most often?
It's not very common with planes packing more then 6 .50's, anything less though and losing a kill (not specifically kill stealing in some cases) especially with a more heavily armed plane around just because of the length of time it takes to set up a good shot with anemic guns.
However if ya fly something with pop guns most often, I envy your luck (or politeness of countrymen)
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I fly the F4u-1D exclusively. The guns are usually sufficient. Though, I do get assists on occasion... it is usally because the plane was already hit by someone else previously. Usually explains why a wing would fall off after 2 .50 cal pings.
I seldomely pump more ammo into a plane than is necessary. I imagine this has cost me a kill a few times... but I do know I've been in serious furballs were kills were awarded some 5-10 minutes after I landed 10 pings on a plane.
Its a no-structure arena. Things happen both in your favor and otherwise. Its easy to forget one and focus on the other. Especially when condemning others.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Wow Suave1... I guess the difference between you and I is you still feel you are a nice guy after making posts like this.
AKDejaVu
This is what I'm talking about gentlemen .
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Points schmoints...lettem waste thier ammo and drool lol.
Swamp
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I come home from work shaking my head thinking "people suck", and sit down to relax with some AH . I end up logging off thinking "yep, people suck" .
Ever stop to think that at times.. it isn't the rest of the world's fault?
Suave1, this is what I'm talking about.
AKDejaVu
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What isn't the rest of the worlds fault ? You disagree with me so you insult me personally ? Why are you so bent on busting my chops . I did a search on your username and noticed a trend of antagonistic overtones to many of your posts . I'm sure many were allready aware of this but I wasn't untill today . Please, just leave me alone .
[This message has been edited by Suave1 (edited 01-08-2001).]
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Let me preface this by saying that I am very pleased with the Aces High comunity. I have flow WB, AW, and AH and I can say without qualification that the AH comunity has the least snobery and almost never do I hear "you stole my kill" or "get away its mine" which I did hear more than occasionaly in the other games when one person found what they considered to be an easy target (low slow plane for example). That is a completly different situation from the current problem of stealing kills by shooting helpless falling plane parts to get kills.
This type of kill stealing has become a very real problem in just the past week or so. I have better things to do with my ammo than pump 1000 rounds into a plane with no tail. While it is still a very small percentage of kills, it is growing. I've lost about 3 kills to this type of activity this tour (which out of my 30 kills is a very large number), and Ive seen my helpless victims chased to the ground at least twice that often.
Perhaps a flag needs to be set that once major damage has been inflicted on a plane, that kill credit is fixed untill the plane wither crashes or miraculously lands safely. Examples would be the tail being gone (elivators...ya cant fly without em), an entire wing being gone, or the engine being dead (not just oil/radiator but dead). This would solve the problem.
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Suave1,
I know plenty of nice guys. I'm trying to think of a single one of them that would use the term "people suck".
I am not pretending to be a nice guy. I am saying that the arena is what you make of it. If you notice a trend in my posts... it pertains towards negative posts here in regards to what goes on in the arena. They especially pertain when someone blows something out of proportion to make themelves out to be some sort of martyre or hero.
The truth is, these things happen. What makes it a more or less pleasant place to be is how you deal with it when it does happen. It is not everyone else that is ruining the experience for you.
AKDejaVu
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Hehe Suave... you did the exact same thing to me as u posted about.... twice, in the same sortie. Even your reply to me was pretty much identical to the guy who responded to you...
Ah, Karma works in magical ways (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Hehe, this is meant as no offence, I agree with ya, it's annoying when intentional. But don't get too worked up over it... it's not that common from my POV. Cheers.
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Yikes! 26 assists so far. I've gotta up-gun.
I've only got 54 kills so far this tour...that just about half!
I though I was getting robbed alot, guess my intuition is right (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Nash that's hard for me to believe . The only time I remember playing around you was that day you smacked me around the TA . And we were in seperate countries at that time in the ma. Do you remember what ID I was using at the time ?
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Well, yer ID was Suave, of course (can't remember if there was a '1' attached). I remember it pretty clearly.... the base it happened over, etc. In fact, someone posted a screen shot here a while back in an unrelated post and in the text buffer was you replying to me when I asked why ya kept doing it. I got a chuckle about that.
I was about 12-14K, and removed some plane's wings... and u nabbed him as he fluttered down to about 6K. The same thing happened about 3 minutes later... and when I inquired about this, you brushed me off with a "yah? so what? deal with it" response.
I mean, it's basically the spittin' image of what yer posting about now.
But don't get me wrong, I don't really care, and I don't hold grudges or anything like that, and I respect you as a pilot. Really, I shouldn't have mentioned it here at all... just thought it was ironic.