Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AWRaid on September 11, 2004, 06:49:40 PM
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I know AW only had spit factories but factories for all "elite" aircraft should be in the game. Fun Times... but I could see much whining.:P
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Originally posted by AWRaid
...but I could see much whining.:P
more than now?
is that even possible?
LMFAO!
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I drove a loudmouth spitdweeb nuts one day in AW. I forget his name now, but he was a big mouth and only flew spits.
So one day, I spent probably 6 hours straight of knocking out the spit factory in a Pony. I'd announce where I would be attacking from ( 20k from the south, etc) and when I got their, there'd be about 4 - 10 planes waiting, desperatly trying to stop me.
But I was diving in from 20k and they could never stop me from knocking that factory out. I think it stayed down for an hour, but I'm not sure.
The guy went bizerk and left the arena.
That's one of my fond memories in AW :)
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Originally posted by AWRaid
I know AW only had spit factories but factories for all "elite" aircraft should be in the game. Fun Times... but I could see much whining.:P
Ya know...that's not a bad idea...an La7 Fac in each country.
DmdMax <-- raises rotten fruit shields
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great idea...why not a factory for all high end planes?
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heh, i always liked the spit factory too, but there was a bug which let ya get 1 anyhow;..I dont think AW EVER fixed a single bug, come to think of it
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Good idea, a few factory's for the high end planes deep in team X's territory would give bombers something to er, um..bomb. Might increase more organized missions, possible solution to ENY.
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The mechanic works the wrong way. As one country gains superior numbers and bombs the enemy factories that leaves the weaker country with even less uber planes available to defend themselves with.
The stronger country would get stronger and the weaker would get weaker still.
It wouldn't balance anything.
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It might not balance much, but it would certainly make the game more interesting, bases and HQ no longer being the only things to go after that really have an effect on much...
I know this will sound like catering to the weak, but what if the factories hardness rating went up as that countries numbers went down? I don't think that would be too unreasonable.
Personally, I'd love this for two major reasons:
1. My squad (and many others) fly a lot of German iron and would more than likely have a blast upping to attack formations of heavy bombers lining up to bomb our factories; and
2. It would make for some more interesting missions. I'm sick and tired of the usual "P-51, P-47, Typhoon, etc., all loaded with 100% ordinance payload going in to jabo something mission". I'd LOVE to see some missions where the P-47 and P-51 are clean except for dt's and are expected to do nothing more than escort bombers at high altitude to a target deep inside enemy territory.
If the factories were far enough back, there would be high altitude engagements (25k + I'd imagine) that would really let some planes like the Ta152 and P-47 shine.
Furballs would still exist on the deck, smaller fights could still be found at the 15k range, and the strategy/simulation enthusiasts could have their "realistic" missions too...
But, as noted before, I'm an optimist :D
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Originally posted by Vudak
I know this will sound like catering to the weak, but what if the factories hardness rating went up as that countries numbers went down? I don't think that would be too unreasonable.
That's the first thing that I thought of too, reading this thread.
I think this might be sort of cool. Maybe only factories for non-perked top end planes.
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I like it. I havent pulled a fighter scort in over a year
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The spit factory was active in AW4W and implemented in Aw2 and early AW3 but after that it just did not "work" and was rarely used.......infact at one time in AW3 strat facilities were capturable.....now that was neat!
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Dude...little advise here.
Any idea or proposal that begins with AW had.............
is DOA here in HTC land. Check the BBS and you will see it to be true.
But i agree...there were many ideas and game issues that were delt with in practical way that worked quite well.
I say impliment them even if they are old.
We know they worked and "If it aint broke"....
It doesnt have to be new for it to be good.
Salute!
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Dude...little advise here.
Any idea or proposal that begins with AW had.............
is DOA here in HTC land. Check the BBS and you will see it to be true.
But i agree...there were many ideas and game issues that were delt with in practical way that worked quite well.
I say impliment them even if they are old.
We know they worked and "If it aint broke"....
It doesnt have to be new for it to be good.
Salute!
It dies seem that way doest it.
What is the deal with that anyway?
Because AW of any other game had it it wont be here?
There are a bunch of things that worked and worked well intentionally and otherwise but because AW had it it doesnt get implimented?
Seems like kinda cutting your nose off to spite your face to me
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/IT\ does doesnt /IT\? :D
Its kinda "Amazing" isnt it?
But why "Yak" about it?
hehehe
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
/IT\ does doesnt /IT\? :D
Its kinda "Amazing" isnt it?
But why "Yak" about it?
hehehe
LMAO Yes /IT\ Does.
Why "Yak" about it?
Because...
/IT\ KILLS! ///oo\\\
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Originally posted by bj229r
heh, i always liked the spit factory too, but there was a bug which let ya get 1 anyhow;..I dont think AW EVER fixed a single bug, come to think of it
lol, kind of like the 5 mountians in med euro that didnt quite touch the ground. You could fly around inside the mountian, if you entered under 15ft alt. That made for some laughs in the final days of aw when I felt free to exploit it :)
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make sure we have a P51D factory
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AW may have had bugs but they had things right.
I guess HT doesn't want to add things that were in airwarrior because he doesn't want to seem like he ripped it off? I dunno...
All I know is I had tons of fun in Air Warrior and really no game has matched it since. Any ww2 air combat sim is going to be a rip off of AW anyway unless its some radically new design. That is how games improve, hell look at DAoC... it's a total rip-off of EQ but it's supposedly better.
AW had lots of good things about it that is why it stayed around for so long and would still be around if EA didn't kill it.
I'd like to see an AW tribute map for AH one day, it'd be fun to play on AW Europe/Pac - maybe have planes limited too...euro planes for the euro map, etc.
Anyway back to my point on factories.
Part of the greatness of AW was the bombing system, a good strategic system makes for fun level bombing runs. Fun level bombing runs = more bombers = change in game dynamics = more things to do. Everyone likes realism and historic value and heavy bombing was a big part of that. Sometimes it seems like the simplest things (to me at least) can be the most fun. Escorting bombers..doing high alt buff hunts - getting together tons of bombers and hitting a target such as a spit factory:P
Everyone loves to fight in and against a well organized force, they're just fun. Why? maybe because it makes the game feel more real...maybe it's just neat seeing a plan come together or people working together, who knows...
In AW some of my best times were using the planes that no one used and going in with a group of people doing something just for fun. I remember plenty of times where We'd up in jugs and escort B25s to the Cz spit factory, maybe the alcohol made it more fun i dunno but it was great or having a bunch of Ju88s...escorting them with 109s....getting worried when your fuel was starting to get low, enemies below trying to climb and catch your flight.
I know my post is too long and contains too much babbling but hopefully i conveyed my point.
Having say 4 "uber" aircraft factories deep inside of each country would change the game and I believe for the better.
I'm for a revamp of the entire strategic system as well though. I say increase the down times of anything that gets destroyed but increase the hardness of all targets to compensate for an imbalance in side numbers. Make bombers fully crewable but get rid of the ability to fly with 2 drone bombers and make the pilot not be able to jump to gunner position; the gunner can jump but only fires the gun hes at. IMO the key to a flight sim like this is to make it revolve around heavy bombers (real ww2 air combat did), why? Because bombers will never be as fun as a fighter and where you have bombers you will always need fighters. It's all a cycle... bombers win war -> fighters kill bombers this in itself creates a balance and adds to the cooperation and organization of people in general, which we've already determined = more fun.
If you totally hate bombers and everything they stand for and just want to kill potato you can still do that. If you love low alt furballs they'll still be around. People will still attack airfields of course and vehicles will still be fun and useful. However with the added power of level bombing yet weakened defenses (pilot can't jump to gunner positions, single bombers no drones..etc) you'll see level bombers flying higher - this will take the fights higher and increase the usefulness of some not-so-used planes, show the weaknesses of others (La7) and let you learn new strengths/weaknesses you may not have known your fav ride had.
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I like it gives alot of meaning to strategic bombing and defense of strategic resources.
Theoreticly all planes could have factories but imho it would only make sence to have factories for all planes below ENY 20.
Tex
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it would be a reason to fly bombers strategically.
there is no reason to hit strat targets in ah right now.
at least no reason worth the effort.
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Originally posted by AWRaid
I guess HT doesn't want to add things that were in airwarrior because he doesn't want to seem like he ripped it off? I dunno...
What does AW have to do with AC Facs? If I recall correctly, the Allied and Axis powers both had AC factories which were (apart from US mainland soil) heavily bombed by the enemy. AH has always been a game in-progress. Just because a strategic element hasn't been present so far doesn't mean it can't be added. Seems to me a number of players support the idea of each country having at least one LOW ENY plane factory...only problem is...how do you incorporate that along with the new side balancing ENY system? HT...your thoughts please?
DmdMax
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You gents are way off base about why or why not I implement somthing, even if it was in AW. If something sugested had been done in AW , it would had no effect on my discision.
I do not implement the plane factories because I truly dislike them when I played AW.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
I do not implement the plane factories because I truly dislike them when I played AW.
HiTech
Does this mean you have plans for strategic targets which really have "meaning" to your country's war effort or are we staying with the stuff that only point mongers worry about?
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Factories for every plane would be counter-productive for reasons already written about. I would however like the idea of a plane/gv factory though for a single plane or gv type. In moderation would be fun.
I used to love getting a full crewed b17 and doing those deep strikes to the spit factory. (people would join the good bombers because the whole crew shared in the points)
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Ok reality check...you got guys whining because they cant fly thier plane of choice for 10mins because of ENY..now you wanna disable the aircraft for how long an Hour??? LOL
the forthcoming whining will make an Air Raid Siren sound like a Dog Whistle:rofl
Learn how to fly better and stop worrying about what the other guy is in
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Ok reality, reality check...
At least it would be because someone you could shoot down instead of having a line of code which simply prevents plane X from being available. Yes, we all hear the "we have no dar" whines and the "we have no Plane X" whines because our factory is dead would be no different. However, dar can be fixed and/or defended. So could the factories.
Doesn't really matter though as HT doesn't like the idea.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LMAO Yes /IT\ Does.
Why "Yak" about it?
Because...
/IT\ KILLS! ///oo\\\
:D
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Hmm...are we to conclude from this HiTech was a 'spit dweeb'?
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Originally posted by bj229r
Hmm...are we to conclude from this HiTech was a 'spit dweeb'?
bah, someone beat me to it
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Originally posted by Fauxbra
Ok reality check...you got guys whining because they cant fly thier plane of choice for 10mins because of ENY..now you wanna disable the aircraft for how long an Hour??? LOL
the forthcoming whining will make an Air Raid Siren sound like a Dog Whistle:rofl
Learn how to fly better and stop worrying about what the other guy is in
Here is some (REAL)ality.
Actuall numbers
The results are in.
And the judgment is yours.
Tour…….Total Kills
50-692642
51-713708
52-597521
53-486581 AH2 released Mid Tour on 6/16/04
54-492754
55-471781
56-188420
This is day 13 of tour 56 and we are on a pace of about 435000 total kills for the Tour.
I used Tour 50 through 56 with 53 being the MID point (AH2 was released 6/16/04)
So I included tour 53 in both the Pre and Post AH2 release averages. I also used the projection for Tour 56 (As it isnt complete yet.
Pre AH2 release Kills = 622613
Post Ah2 release kills = 471529
Are we having fun yet?
Has the gunnery hindered the over all average?
Have we become more timid, flying birds that are slightly limited in there diversity since the ENY sanction system has been implemented?
Have we logged less over all hours in the past few tours?
I did some research on hours.
This was a quick check and needs further investigation and with a longer time line.
But a quick look was in order.
Using 4 of the MA regular attending squads.
I added there Hours logged and divided them by 4 to get the average per Tour.
I used Tour 50 through 56 with 53 being the MID point (AH2 was released 6/16/04)
So I included tour 53 in both the Pre and Post AH2 release averages. I also used the projection for Tour 56 (As it isnt complete yet.
Tour………..Average hours of the 4 squads
50-798.5
51-829
52-926
53-754
54-969
55-806
56-308
…at this point. Day 13 of tour 56 and on a pace of about 711 hours for this tour.
Now we will look at Pre AH2 and Post AH2 release hours logged.
Pre AH2
798.5 + 829 + 926 + 754 = 3307.5 Divided by 4 =
826.875 Pre AH2 release hours logged.
Post AH2
754 + 969 + 806 + (711) = 3240 divided by 4 =
810 Post AH2 release hours logged.
This is only a 16-hour separation between Pre AH2 and Post AH2 release.
But the interesting number is the projected number for tour 56 (Post the ENY Sanction system) if this projection is anywhere close to accurate then I have to think we are becoming disenchanted with AH2 as a whole. I know I have felt less interested.
Only time will tell but if this trend continues it would be a shame.
Anyhoo. I was fidgety and thought I would do some research. Not worth a lot but seems interesting nonetheless. Salute
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Interesting post MugZ.
You didnt happen to compare summer/winter seasons and their impact on AH playing time or kills ect. did you?
I am curious is all.
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"I do not implement the plane factories because I truly dislike them when I played AW" -hitech
Hmm, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it can't make the game better and more fun to others. Am I wrong?
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Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Interesting post MugZ.
You didnt happen to compare summer/winter seasons and their impact on AH playing time or kills ect. did you?
I am curious is all.
No i havent as of yet. But plan to.
I dont think it will effect the Kills as much as the hours played.
That is to say on a ratio basis any way. The reduction in total kills are here for a long time to come. Any wagers?
But the Hours played averages are too early to really get a guage i think. But as for the Reduction in total kills.....Its very telling to me.
ie Many BBS players claim that it is just as easy to Get a kill or (Hit) the nme.
But the numbers dont lie. The overall averags tell the story as to how the "New" AH is effecting us as a whole. ;)
The changes in the flight model Smaller hit sprites and other little tweaks are effecting our ability to kill.
And we might be seing the ENY sanction system effecting our desire to even bother.:(
Of course this is a very general study.
But i bet it is proportionatly accurate.
We shall re-visit this study in a few more tours. Any bets as to the outcome? :)
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Originally posted by hitech
You gents are way off base about why or why not I implement somthing, even if it was in AW. If something sugested had been done in AW , it would had no effect on my discision.
I do not implement the plane factories because I truly dislike them when I played AW.
HiTech
AH HAH!!
LOL
Thank you for the responce.
Now at least we know why.
Honestly though
that is the way it looked
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Originally posted by bj229r
Hmm...are we to conclude from this HiTech was a 'spit dweeb'?
Naw HT was a Corsair dweeb. Spent many a Sat morning helping him capture a field on the main island so we could fight. My Ki Vs his F4U... even with the plane advantage we split pretty evenly.