Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hinter on September 12, 2004, 10:01:40 PM
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Well, i ll make it short since there is enough threads about this already:
blocking planes from being useable ruins my day.
this game is supposed to be fun i always thought.
guess hi-tech would disagree.
anyways if this stupid eny thing isnt gone soon i am.
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psst there are more planes than, p51, la7, typh, spit, and 109G10
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this is BS - if i wanted to buy half a game i would.
i am not going to argue though. if its no fun for me anymore i quit.
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Sorry to see it didnt work out for ya bud
and keep checking back. Nothing is permenent. HT can make changes as needed if he so wishes. God knows im wishing. :D
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(http://jollyrogers.info/VF17/step01.jpg)
then
(http://jollyrogers.info/VF17/step02.jpg)
Good luck. :)
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Arlo though that is another option it has its errors too. They want the sides to be balanced so be it. Folks change sides to help and then what? Oh that's right they get stuck once the numbers change again an hour or two later due to the time limit.
So though your post is a good example what to do it's still not perfect. If they want to force people to play their way then they need to make the rest of their system flexable too.
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Arlo you missed the point.
Thx for the info, but I know the game very well.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
psst there are more planes than, p51, la7, typh, spit, and 109G10
Ummm, the Typhoon is ENY 20, it's rarely effected...Try adding the Niki to that list instead.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Cobra412
Arlo though that is another option it has its errors too. They want the sides to be balanced so be it. Folks change sides to help and then what? Oh that's right they get stuck once the numbers change again an hour or two later due to the time limit.
So though your post is a good example what to do it's still not perfect. If they want to force people to play their way then they need to make the rest of their system flexable too.
Be-lieve it or not .... I won't argue with that a bit. :)
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I totally agree with yah, hinter. If you aren't having fun, you should do something else. It is a pity that your concept of what is fun in AH is so limited tho. G'luck to yah. :)
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
psst there are more planes than, p51, la7, typh, spit, and 109G10
Yes, there are, but since 1.05 or so my ride has been the -51D. The squadron I joined is a pony squardon, with the D being our primary ride. Matter of fact both squadrons I have joined in my entire time playing AH are pony squadrons.. the 13th TAS and the 412th Braunco Mustangs.
If my bird is down cause of maintence (the ENY blocking bullcrap) I'll go back to bed (log off and play something else).
Now, until you start paying everyone's subscription every month, get off yer soap box and quit tryin to tell people what to fly.
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thx for the good whishes NoBaddy - interesting though you think my concept of fun is limited - even though you dont know it :D
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I agree with hinter.
I'm not going to country hop in order to fly the plane I like.
If the game limits aircraft, it should do so for all the paying customers. If one country has numbers, then ALL countries should lose the same aircraft until the all important "numbers" equalise. Wouldn't that be fair? :lol
Im with you hinter. I logged on and found the D , so no problem yet, but the first time I log on and see that I am forced to change countries to fly it (in order to apease crybabies), I'm leaving.
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Originally posted by NUKE
If the game limits aircraft, it should do so for all the paying customers. If one country has numbers, then ALL countries should lose the same aircraft until the all important "numbers" equalise. Wouldn't that be fair?
in all honesty I actualy like this idea NUKE, it would prob work alot better I would think
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Caveman it is called the P51b and it is all around better than the D.
Nik is uselessin the MA in AH2. has not enough speed.
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
in all honesty I actualy like this idea NUKE, it would prob work alot better I would think
How so? The incentive should be for the players on the unbalancing team to log off or switch sides in order to balance things. Their reward for doing so is a complete planeset. If you make the punishments universal, you remove all incentives for balancing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
How so? The incentive should be for the players on the unbalancing team to log off or switch sides in order to balance things. Their reward for doing so is a complete planeset. If you make the punishments universal, you remove all incentives for balancing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Reward?
The responsibility to make the numbers even is not mine.
Make PUNISHMENTS ( a great description) universal and make ALL paying customers PUNISHED until the numbers balance.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Reward?
The responsibility to make the numbers even is not mine.
[/b]
Yes, it is. That's the whole point.
Make PUNISHMENTS ( a great description) universal and make ALL paying customers PUNISHED until the numbers balance.
Those who are completely outnumbered are already punished. Removing planes from them further punishes them in addition to this despite their having no control over the punishment. After all, which side is a totally outnumbered player supposed to switch to anyway in order to remove the plane limiter? Essentially, you've given the power to punish and reward to those who already outnumber everyone, actually increasing their power. I can't see a single good thing about your idea.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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How are those that are outnumbered punished? You mean they can't change countries?
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And actually, I never cared if I was outnumbered.
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Are people that fly at 5k punished by people that decide to fly at 10k?
Lets have an "Alt limiter" too
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The responsibility to make the numbers even is not mine.
This is precisely the attitude that caused the imbalance problem in the first place.
It was our responsibility to sort it out (as in the past), it didn't happen - HT stepped in.
Typical 'someone else's problem', ' not my fault', coke bottle slopey shoulders attitude.
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Originally posted by NUKE
How are those that are outnumbered punished? You mean they can't change countries?
Dude, that makes no sense. The idea of a plane limiter is balance. You are suggesting more imbalance. I know you understand this, so you have to be trolling now.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
Yes, there are, but since 1.05 or so my ride has been the -51D. The squadron I joined is a pony squardon, with the D being our primary ride. Matter of fact both squadrons I have joined in my entire time playing AH are pony squadrons.. the 13th TAS and the 412th Braunco Mustangs.
If my bird is down cause of maintence (the ENY blocking bullcrap) I'll go back to bed (log off and play something else).
Now, until you start paying everyone's subscription every month, get off yer soap box and quit tryin to tell people what to fly.
Nobody is telling you what to fly. You've got a myriad of choices on what to fly. Can't blame us for limiting yourself. Last time I checked, a P-51B was still a Mustang.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by NUKE
Are people that fly at 5k punished by people that decide to fly at 10k?
Lets have an "Alt limiter" too
This does not compare. Try again next time with a better analogy.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Kev367th
This is precisely the attitude that caused the imbalance problem in the first place.
It was our responsibility to sort it out (as in the past), it didn't happen - HT stepped in.
Typical 'someone else's problem', ' not my fault', coke bottle slopey shoulders attitude.
so you would be okay with an altitude limiter too? Anyone was free to move from an outnumbered country before. If they chose to stay, it's their decision.
Lets equalise the altitude of all fights too, we need to be fair.
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
Nik is uselessin the MA in AH2. has not enough speed.
Hmmm...I wonder what you base that on? First hand knowledge or just by parroting what you read on the message boards? I somehow doubt it's from first hand knowledge...
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Dude, that makes no sense. The idea of a plane limiter is balance. You are suggesting more imbalance. I know you understand this, so you have to be trolling now.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I'm saying that people make a choice to stay in an outnumbered country. I have been Rook since as long as I remember.....even when Bish had huge numbers. If I wanted, I could have switched to Bish.
Everyone always had a choice....not a forced one.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
How so? The incentive should be for the players on the unbalancing team to log off or switch sides in order to balance things. Their reward for doing so is a complete planeset. If you make the punishments universal, you remove all incentives for balancing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
yes Levi you are right, I still see it working just the same as it is now if not better, the eny thing never really has effected me much outside of when I might want to up a F4U-1C but I always have the D model......if it punished the whole arena it prob would be alot more post about not liking it, but at least everyone will benefit from the fact that if the eny was enabled to everyone, then everyone would be on a level playing ground verses 15 P51Ds or La7s against 15 or 20 slower less performing planes ( if one would put it like that) my plane I fly most is slow at speed, slow at climbing, and is lacking ...to me that is the thrill I get flying a slower type plane ( although it is relatively thought as a late war superior type) against the thurough breds :)
the biggest thing about the eny limiter is say bish have the limiter enabled ok no 51ds or La7s etc for them...but where in places the fight is on ( bunch of flyers) all you see on the opposing team is these birds 10 to 15 La7s or P51ds and they still actualy outnumber the overwhelming team in that area....
so I do not see where the eny thing is of any value for the most part........I would not be surprised if a country had not got the squads together to work out their schedule so they are always equal or the lower numbered country so they can always have their favorite ride........heck it is possible, if they can schedule a RJO then a country can schedule it to where they are for the most part the lower numbered team, in this way they can always deny for the most their opponents from having the luxury of flying certian planes....wouldn't you think?
do you not think that if every country paid the penalty for the numbers imbalance, that they would not still try and even out the numbers? I think they would but that is just an opinion......
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Levi - the more I read the whines about the ENV limiter, the more I become convinced that there are some real selfish, self serving members of the AH community.
Sort of guys that turn up for an after school fight with 10 of their mates.
Be interesting if the ENV was removed - I'll bet you not ONE squad would change sides.
Can see your point TequilaChaser - but, this is not a short term fix, will take a while for its effect to fully be realized.
Also OK at moment there still remains an imbalance during certain periods, but then ENV limiter in effect levels the playing fied more.
Anyone else noticed that since the ENV limit the Sunday night Rook juggernaut is a lot more sedate?
N.B. I was not one of the people who complained about imbalance in the first place.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I'm saying that people make a choice to stay in an outnumbered country. I have been Rook since as long as I remember.....even when Bish had huge numbers. If I wanted, I could have switched to Bish.
[/b]
You still have not addressed any issues of balance. Of course these players have a choice, but their choice does not bring balance to the arena. In fact, any choice they make brings further imbalance. Hence, no sensible gameplay change would punish them for staying where they are.
The first casuality of balance is choice. Deal.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Levi - the more I read the whines about the ENV limiter, the more I become convinced that there are some real selfish, self serving members of the AH community.
Sort of guys that turn up for an after school fight with 10 of their mates.
Be interesting if the ENV was removed - I'll bet you not ONE squad would change sides.
LOL
All I want is for ALL game rules to be even and effect all the same.
Why stop at country balance, why not then go to altitude balance? It's not fair that some people fly higher. Why stope there? Why not make everyone fly the exact same plane?
Let's make all bases exactly the same. Everything must be fair.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
You still have not addressed any issues of balance. Of course these players have a choice, but their choice does not bring balance to the arena. In fact, any choice they make brings further imbalance. Hence, no sensible gameplay change would punish them for staying where they are.
The first casuality of balance is choice. Deal.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
Since when has "balance" been the name of the game?
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Maybe change the name to "Aces Equal"
All players are always gauranteed to fight an equal fight, no matter what.
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Game rules are even, they do affect all the same.
It's not as though the ENV limiter only affects one side. It affects all sides at some time, in fact I have seen it affect two countries at the same time.
I believe airfields, ports, vehicle bases etc are the same for all sides, unless you know different.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Game rules are even, they do affect all the same.
It's not as though the ENV limiter only affects one side. It affects all sides at some time, in fact I have seen it affect two countries at the same time.
Before ENY, everyone had the EXACT same plane-set and the EXACT same choices of country.
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But thats not strictly true though is it -
A vet could afford a 262 etc, a newb couldn't.
Yes they had the same country choices, BUT people chose not to balance things, their choice. They are now reaping the dividends of their inaction.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Since when has "balance" been the name of the game?
Since Rooks exercised their choice to so vastly and routinely outnumber their opponents as to make playing at all problematic for those on opposing countries.
If you balance the sides in general, then skill becomes the deciding factor in fights rather than overwhelming, unrelenting numbers. But I guess you like choosing to simply obliterate opponents without skill or saavy?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I actually think HT decided enough was enough when Rooks would come close to, and in some cases outnumber the combined strengths of the other two. Something I had never seen happen with either Bish or Knits.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Since Rooks exercised their choice to so vastly and routinely outnumber their opponents as to make playing at all problematic for those on opposing countries.
If you balance the sides in general, then skill becomes the deciding factor in fights rather than overwhelming, unrelenting numbers. But I guess you like choosing to simply obliterate opponents without skill or saavy?
-- Todd/Leviathn
So why not balance ALL things in the game and make it about skill?
Let's get that altitude balance in place first..it's unfair for someone to fly higher. Then maybe a plane balance....all the same planes.
Then lets have a turn balance, just in case one guy is outturning his enemy.
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Come on NUKE your 'arguments' are getting so far into the realms of ridiculousness it almost not worth answering them any longer.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Come on NUKE your 'arguments' are getting so far into the realms of ridiculousness it almost not worth answering them any longer.
It's all about balance I thought.
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Numbers balance.
Not up on american games, but in the UK we play this thing called 'football'.
Two teams of eleven players (not one of 11, one of 22). Players with differing skill levels, some are faster, some turn better.
Game is decided on skill, not because one team outnumbers the other. Some teams have access to better players, others don't.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Numbers balance.
Not up on american games, but in the UK we play this thing called 'football'.
Two teams of eleven players (not one of 11, one of 22). Players with differing skill levels, some are faster, some turn better.
Game is decided on skill, not because one team outnumbers the other. Some teams have access to better players, others don't.
do the players pay to participate?
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Originally posted by NUKE
So why not balance ALL things in the game and make it about skill?
[/b]
Because, obviously, the issue is balanced numbers. Numbers supercede all things. You cannot defend against overwhelming numbers. You cannot prevent being steamrolled by overwhelming numbers. They will always win once they reach a critical mass.
Skill can overcome altitude, planes, and even uneven numbers. But it cannot overcome a critical mass of enemies. The steamroll defeats everything.
Shame on you for turning this into some personal choice and liberty debate. It's like you're arguing about why you can't have twice as many players on the football field as your opponents all the while trying to equate the choice to outnumber those opponents with the choice to pass or run the ball.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I know folks don't like to switch sides just to fly their plane. I don't necessarily like it either. One thing that bothers me is the time limit for changing. If I do switch, which we have done as a squad quite often with the eny in place, I'd like the option to switch back once the field has balanced.
Currently you cannot switch back even if the numbers go unbalanced in favor of the side you joined to fix the balancing issue. It's typical that on Sundays when we switch at approximately 6pm that by the time we are done doing our flying the numbers have flopped again. When this happens I've always been at the point where I can't change for about 160 minutes. So it means I'm now stuck with the limiter even though I made an effort to help the balance in the first place. I don't see how this is fair for me. I'm playing the game that they want me to play so why is it your punished like this?
I have grabbed other birds too and tried to fly them when the eny is in place. I don't mind it much really. I do know I need to learn more of the planes now. Hard to get use to one birds characteristics and then just switch out of the blue. Either way I'm not against flying other birds. I just find one with similiar traits to what I usually fly.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Because, obviously, the issue is balanced numbers. Numbers supercede all things. You cannot defend against overwhelming numbers. You cannot prevent being steamrolled by overwhelming numbers. They will always win once they reach a critical mass.
Skill can overcome altitude, planes, and even uneven numbers. But it cannot overcome a critical mass of enemies. The steamroll defeats everything.
Shame on you for turning this into some personal choice and liberty debate. It's like you're arguing about why you can't have twice as many players on the football field as your opponents all the while trying to equate the choice to outnumber those opponents with the choice to pass or run the ball.
-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]
All paying customers ALWAYS had the same choices.
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Cobra412
- I think maybe reducing the switch time limit from the current 6 to something lower may help.
Also starting to favor the crowd who suggest making the limited planes accesible by way of perks.
Some major issues though -
1) How to prevent side switching to find CVs etc, although as this already goes on may not have a big impact.
2) Availability perk cost should be based on ENV value
ENV 5 = 200 (current cost/ENV of 262)
ENV 6 = 160
ENV 7 = 120
ENV 8 = 80
ENV 9 =40
Obviously aircraft ENV values would have to be reworked.
3) Newbs could be given a set amount of perks at start of their 2 week trial, if they stay on they get a further 'bonus' amount of perks to get them started.
4) Heres the biggie, all perks reset at start of each tour.
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Originally posted by NUKE
All paying customers ALWAYS had the same choices.
They still do. You realize that, right?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
They still do. You realize that, right?
-- Todd/Leviathn
So you agree that ENY was not needed?
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Originally posted by NUKE
So you agree that ENY was not needed?
Of course it was needed. It does not change the choices as you presented them. The people on the outnumbered team can still choose to join the outnumbering team, and vice-versa.
Of course, life will suck all the more plane-wise for those on the outnumbering team, but they have the choice to change that too. Too bad they wouldn't take it before without the disincentive, but c'est la vie.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by NUKE
All paying customers ALWAYS had the same choices.
Go back an read what Todd wrote. How are my choices the same if I'm flying for the side that is outnumbered and getting steamrolled?
Aren't you taking away my choices? The enjoyment isn't equal for me then is it? I'm not 'getting what I paid for" then am I based on your argument.
Todd seemed to make the point very clearly. I'm not sure why you don't get it?
Dan/Slack
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Because Guppy as is usual, its NOT about everyones enjoyment of the game, it's about HIS enjoyment of the game. Sign of the times I guess.
Yes it's your $15, your choice to spend it, your choice to stay Rook, your choice to have limited planeset sometimes.
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Kev. Something else along with the eny does need to be implemented. I don't mind the whole thing to much. It is frustrating though at times. I really don't know what needs to be done completely. I do know the time limit needs to be adjusted though. I think that frustrates me the most in the end.
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Yeah Cobra. I'm not sure either.
I feel sorry for HT, whatever he did he was gonna pee off some people.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Go back an read what Todd wrote. How are my choices the same if I'm flying for the side that is outnumbered and getting steamrolled?
Aren't you taking away my choices? The enjoyment isn't equal for me then is it? I'm not 'getting what I paid for" then am I based on your argument.
Todd seemed to make the point very clearly. I'm not sure why you don't get it?
Dan/Slack
No, you have no point. You could have chosen to change countries. YOUR choice.
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Originally posted by NUKE
No, you have no point. You could have chosen to change countries. YOUR choice.
Okay, now it's obvious that you're trolling. G'night, Nuke. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Under your idea NUKE, everyone would end up on one side. Lets all switch to the high numbered country then just flying around admiring the view.
But whoa look at advantages, map resets in no time, 25 perkies every hour or so.
No vultches tho :(
Agreed Levi. G'nite Nuke.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Under your idea NUKE, everyone would end up on one side. Lets all switch to the high numbered country then just flying around admiring the view.
Agreed Levi. G'nite.
So, why hasn't that ever happened in the history of the game?
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Originally posted by NUKE
So, why hasn't that ever happened in the history of the game?
Because we're not all like you, NUKE.
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I'll finish this with a comment.
Try thinking about everyones enjoyment NUKE and not just your own.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Maybe change the name to "Aces Equal"
aces high comunist edition ?
don't really sound sexy :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
(http://jollyrogers.info/VF17/step01.jpg)
then
(http://jollyrogers.info/VF17/step02.jpg)
Good luck. :)
Thats nearly pointless since the limiter is based on instantaneous ratios instead of over time. You just make folks switch back and forth endlessly just to chase a plane? What point, beyond breaking up friends, does this really serve?
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YAWN
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ya know, if enough of these "cry babies" stop whining about the ENY thing and really leave..... the ENY thing will never come into effect for anyone :D
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NUKE, you're being a salamander.
You think that your $14.95 entitles you to fly the plane of your choice unconditionally. It does not. Your subscription entitles you to access the HTC arenas, according to the terms of service agreed when you signed up. In the terms of service, where does it say that HTC guarantees to provide you with a P51, wherever and whenever you want one?
You think your $14.95 subscription is the only one that counts? Let me tell you something. You're not the only subscriber paying $14.95. Those poor guys trying to up from a steamrolled base have paid their $14.95 too. That ENY limiter is designed to give those guys a chance, instead of being vulched/steamrolled by guys like YOU in P51/LA7.
Claiming that the fact you have paid to play entitles you to do whatever you like in the arena is a nonsense. Imagine if I were to go down to the local Chess club, and tell the club secretary that I wanted all my pawns to count as queens whenever I played. The club would probably tell me to piss off...
...which is what you should do, out of this thread.
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wow!! me and beet agree on summat!!!
Now i know im getting old :(
:p :aok :rofl
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Thats nearly pointless since the limiter is based on instantaneous ratios instead of over time. You just make folks switch back and forth endlessly just to chase a plane? What point, beyond breaking up friends, does this really serve?
If they stop being your friends because you switched sides when they wouldn't ....
And how's it pointless when you get your ride back? Or are you alluding that numbers shift hourly, now? If so ... well good! ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Those poor guys trying to up from a steamrolled base have paid their $14.95 too. That ENY limiter is designed to give those guys a chance, instead of being vulched/steamrolled by guys like YOU in P51/LA7.
you mean they are forced to stay in their country? I wasn't aware of that, poor guys.
And I never said I was entitled to special treatment. I suggested that when one country has too many numbers, ALL countries lose the planes until the numbers balance. That sounds fair to me.
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One should be able to switch to the country that has the LEAST amount of players instantly ... no time limit should be imposed.
Now if one wants to switch back to a country that enjoys greater numbers than the one that they are currently in, then they must wait the 6 hour period.
All in all, I cannot believe the amount of "foot stamping", "lie on the floor kickin' and screamin'" temper tantrums that have evolved within the past 2 weeks.
To me, it's imcomprehensible that adults can, and do carry on like this. Just goes to show you what some people are really made of ... shocking to say the least.
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nuke... Am I reading you right? you are mad because you can't fly the best plane while in the country with the largest overpowering numbers?
you can still fly the 51 or still fly with the overpowering number... just not both at the same time now. How is this "unfair" to you?
lazs
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Originally posted by NUKE
you mean they are forced to stay in their country? I wasn't aware of that, poor guys.
Oh, well they could change up a gear by joining the steamrolling side, but Kev367th has you covered on that one when he said Under your idea NUKE, everyone would end up on one side. Lets all switch to the high numbered country then just flying around admiring the view.
Is that scenario better than the current ENY balancing? Erm, no... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Arlo
If they stop being your friends because you switched sides when they wouldn't ....
And how's it pointless when you get your ride back? Or are you alluding that numbers shift hourly, now? If so ... well good! ;)
It is immpossible to predict what the numbers balance will be hour to hour on most any side other than saying the side with the highest total numbers will tend to be higher more often. I fly with lots of folks and enjoy their company. If I go jumping around randomly to chase various planes then I'm deprived of that option which is 90 percent of why I fly. IMO , it is foolhardy to regulate the moment to moment numbers in the MA since it has little bearing on gameplay and there are much better ways of evening things out.
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Originally posted by lazs2
nuke... Am I reading you right? you are mad because you can't fly the best plane while in the country with the largest overpowering numbers?
you can still fly the 51 or still fly with the overpowering number... just not both at the same time now. How is this "unfair" to you?
lazs
Lazs, it's not that I'm mad about not being able to fly a Pony in a country with numbers, it's the whole concept of punishment and coerced country balancing. I couldn't care less about numbers.
When I play, I fly alone about 95% of the time and I pick out spots on the map with no "hoard". I am often at a disadvantage where I choose to fly.
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Under your idea NUKE, everyone would end up on one side. Lets all switch to the high numbered country then just flying around admiring the view.
And I answered that this has never happened on the history of the game.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
One should be able to switch to the country that has the LEAST amount of players instantly ... no time limit should be imposed.
Now if one wants to switch back to a country that enjoys greater numbers than the one that they are currently in, then they must wait the 6 hour period.
All in all, I cannot believe the amount of "foot stamping", "lie on the floor kickin' and screamin'" temper tantrums that have evolved within the past 2 weeks.
To me, it's imcomprehensible that adults can, and do carry on like this. Just goes to show you what some people are really made of ... shocking to say the least.
Good post. The being able to switch to smallest country idea especially so.
ON "foot stamping", "lie on the floor kickin' and screamin'" temper tantrums however, you have to remember that not all posting ARE adults (Heck from what some write, not even close). Arguing with adolescents is sort of pointless.
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any concept with "limiter" in the definition is bad. I thought you would understand Laz :D
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Originally posted by NUKE
any concept with "limiter" in the definition is bad. I thought you would understand Laz :D
With that, then I assume that you are opposed to planes being perked and that HT should remove all perks from all planes.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
With that, then I assume that you are opposed to planes being perked and that HT should remove all perks from all planes.
nope, didn't say that . Perks are perks, as in a bonus, as in a treat for something you've earned.
Different concept , don't you think?
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Locked for flame on first post.