Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs on January 08, 2001, 10:23:00 AM
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Seriously... what kind of a dipshit would fly a perk plane against the fairly well balanced planeset we have now? What is the point? I honestly don't know. The only answer I can see is less than flattering so... give me some reasons that make sense. If we can give our perk points away I will... If not... I will just let em do whastever it is they do without using em.
lazs
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What kind of a sissy would fly a "perk" plane?
Me.
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fair enough... reminds me of the joke where the potato says "who ya gonna please with that little thing?"
lazs
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lol!
Lazs we all know you really like the perk plane idea, just come out and admit it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I find it kind of suspicious that the ONLY plane in the whole plane set that could even be remotely considered to be a perk plane...is the Corsair-C (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Imagine the chaos that would ensue if the P-51 were perked.
BTW, ever notice that, even with the multi-adjustable view system, the Corsair STILL has the WORST 6 (and 5 and 7) view???
It's the Anti-Navy Conspiracy, I tell ya...
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Tried the F6F yet??? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
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C-hog today, N1K tommorow, mark my words!
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off course Chog and Niki, obvious to me.
at least they will not perk the P47-D30, the "M" is OTW. hehehe
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AHHH YAMMY!
I can allready here everybody complaining about Alt Dweeb Wilbus in his TA152 at 45k vulching high bombers, or "Golly-geen 262 dweeb guns ***** dweebs all of them" from the B17 pilots :-)
THAT will make my life worth livving!
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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
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"C-hog today, N1K tommorow, mark my words!"
AMEN brother. I hope they are.
On the other hand, I'd love to save me perk points to have a fun sortie in an me-262 (hunting goons of course, its the only thing it'd be good for *grin*) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I'd love to fly these advanced aircraft to see how they compare to the one I currently fly. I don't know if I'd try real hard to ensure I didn't get shot down. I guess it depends on wether you want to push the aircraft to its limits, or make sure you don't risk losing it.
My fear is that more people will fly them avoiding any risk as opposed to really using them for combat. I think this will drive a wedge into the community if it becomes prolific.
Only time will tell, however.
AKDejaVu
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Tac, then the Yak9 will be next, maybe the Vaunted P51, don't you see? There is no end...
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I know this...
Anyone who DOES fly and kill in a Perker better have .squelch 1 turned on. The amount of smack that is generated from this will be boundless, like space itself.
Lemme provide some Ch 1 appetizers:
"you chawg dweeb! cant kill like a man, eh?"
"any dweeb can kill people in that f16, moron"
"so-and-so, you are a perk loser! what, do you vulch all day so you can fly that thing once? enjoy it while you can!"
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XX.. won't just be the victims.
What is someone to do against a faster, better armed and more agile aircraft? Point your nose at him and hope he's dumb enough to go for the HO.
I wonder how many perk planes are going to have to start the fight by avoiding an HO.
AKDejaVu
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Lets just perk everything that has canons, or more than one cannon.
<GDR>
Mav
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I aint gonna *aspire* to racking up perk points.... but when I got enough and one becomes available... Sure! Why the hell not? I wouldn't hang on to it for long, but it'd be a hoot, wouldn't it?
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The more I hear about the perk idea, the more I like it.
If they perk the 1c, I don't think it will cost much. Maybe 1 point or something like that. Basically if you get a kill in anything other than a 1c you will be able to fly the 1c the next sortie. Not only that but I would bet the number of HOs by 1cs will decrease. At the very least it's worth a try. Honestly, that graph Pyro had of 1c kills was truely pathetic. The 1c had twice as many kills as the number 2 plane. Last night I think over 60% of the planes I saw and fought were 1cs. I don't have any problem killing them, but it does get kind of long in the tooth seeing almost always the same aircraft. (F6f is the ultimate c hog solution. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
I flew a Typhoon last night in an attack sortie. So far this tour I'd only flown the F6f, p51, p47d25, p47d30, and a sortie or two in the tbm. After dropping my bombs I found a spit in front of me. I opened fire at 400 yds, and the spit blew up with 2 pings visible. I was immediately ROFL. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I then did a chandelle and found an n1k below me. This time it took 3 pings and it was forced to ditch. Next was another spitfire, this one blew up on the second ping too. I can see how this would be fun, but there's no thrill (for me at least) like having a good ACM fight. At least to me it feels like you actually accomplished something more than proving you can point the nose of your aircraft in the general direction of the enemy aircraft. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I don't think the n1k will be perked. My reasoning is that there is no other aircraft like it. In the case of the 1c, there is the 1d. It is nearly identical to the 1c, except the guns. In the case of the n1k, there aren't any other aircraft like it.
My $.02 anyway. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Originally posted by bloom25:
The more I hear about the perk idea, the more I like it.
If they perk the 1c, I don't think it will cost much. Maybe 1 point or something like that. Basically if you get a kill in anything other than a 1c you will be able to fly the 1c the next sortie. Not only that but I would bet the number of HOs by 1cs will decrease. At the very least it's worth a try. Honestly, that graph Pyro had of 1c kills was truely pathetic. The 1c had twice as many kills as the number 2 plane. Last night I think over 60% of the planes I saw and fought were 1cs. I don't have any problem killing them, but it does get kind of long in the tooth seeing almost always the same aircraft. (F6f is the ultimate c hog solution. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
I flew a Typhoon last night in an attack sortie. So far this tour I'd only flown the F6f, p51, p47d25, p47d30, and a sortie or two in the tbm. After dropping my bombs I found a spit in front of me. I opened fire at 400 yds, and the spit blew up with 2 pings visible. I was immediately ROFL. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I then did a chandelle and found an n1k below me. This time it took 3 pings and it was forced to ditch. Next was another spitfire, this one blew up on the second ping too. I can see how this would be fun, but there's no thrill (for me at least) like having a good ACM fight. At least to me it feels like you actually accomplished something more than proving you can point the nose of your aircraft in the general direction of the enemy aircraft. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I don't think the n1k will be perked. My reasoning is that there is no other aircraft like it. In the case of the 1c, there is the 1d. It is nearly identical to the 1c, except the guns. In the case of the n1k, there aren't any other aircraft like it.
My $.02 anyway. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Why do people Constantly think the f6f is a F4u or N1k2 solution... Oh wait you musta played Air warrior or war birds.
The f4u was the best US Air craft of WWII it outpreformed all US air craft with the exception of the p51 (and only below 12k). That test was preformed with the f4u1d the f6f5 the p51d the p38j the p47j and the f4f.
The n1k2 was a documented Hellcat killer. It blew the hellcat away in everything escept toughness and reliabilaty. theres even a case where Kaneyoshi Muto shot down 6 (Some sorces say 4) of a squadron of 12 f6f5 helcats chasing the remaining hellcats off single handedly in a n1k2-j Shiden Kai.
However The plane is no substitute for the pilot. If your better with your f6f then Iam with my f4u or n1k2 your gunna win hands down. It's not the plane it's the pilot and how well he knows his plane.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Me!
Sorry, but Aces has and will model aircraft I've not seen in any other sim, damn right I wanna checkem out.
Why pay for something and not try and explore ALL it has to offer?
I bet you at least surf through all them channels on cable that you pay more for than you do Aces. (at least here its more..)
AKskurj
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i cant wait to try out the perk stuff purely because i love new stuff and you'll need to pay perks to fly em.
Me262's mmmmmmmmmmmmmm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
190d's mmmmmmmmmmmm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ta152 mmmmmmmmmmmmm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
beer mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
hazed
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I'll be the first sissy in line to cash in my 5 perk points (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-08-2001).]
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Can't quite work out what your problem is lazs... but I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.
You've often said that you like the 'furball mentality' arena concept.. take off, find a quick fight and dive in.
So how exactly will guys flying perk planes affect you at all? You'll still kill some, you'll still die some... shouldn't make a difference.
I watched you spend your time on the WB board labelling LW drivers 'sissies' for flying something other than the Corsair. You gonna do exactly the same thing on this board?
Sheesh... thank God you won't have the temperament for WW2OL !
P.S. your 'well balanced planeset' is curerntly dominated by the F4U-1C. I can understand why you are reluctant to countenance any changes to the planeset.
[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 01-09-2001).]
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I don't think that flying a perk plane will be any über stuff...
Perk plane probably will atract alot people dedicated to bring him down.
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Nah... aint a prollem with being a furball addict. I'm one myself. The prollem lies in trying to dictate or stigmatize one way of flying over another. Some folks love the furs, some the coordinated missions, some the historical aspect, some the hunter high alt stuff. It's all good.
Thing is, while lazs (who I rather like) doesn't appreciate people forcing their will upon the community - tellin' em how to fly - he's basically doing the same thing with this post. Ya can work hard to earn a perk plane, and take pains to maintain it... or ya eventually have one land in yer lap and use it to goof off. I mean....whichever, that's cool, right lazs?
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...And what kinda sissy would fly blue planes?
Just as smart question as yours was lazs...
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[This message has been edited by Wmaker (edited 01-09-2001).]
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ok, now we are getting to it... The 1C... The endless whining about it will end when it is a perk plane? Now it will be ok to be killed by one? It will no longer "spoil" fair fights with it's ungawdly climb, acceleration and manouverability coupled with it's "glance-o-deth" gunset? LOL! Real uber planes like the -4 will be treated with respect when u are killed by one because, after all, the guy was easy to avoid and he did "earn" it and ..... well, everyone will know it's a -4 and not a D by the little air ducts on the cowl and just avoid it if they don't want to get in a fight that they can't possibly win?
People are traumatized right now by the slightest imagined advantage of what amounts to a pretty well balanced planeset. How will they feel about being beat by a -4 or a Spit 14 or having a 152 or 47 M or whatever hit and run with immunity? Myself, I only flew the C over the D because the mg's didn't work well for me. With the new mg model I have been in the D only this tour and am just as happy.
There are better ways to introduce early and late war planes into the arena that will maintain balance and choice. The idiotic perk idea solves nothing but at worst, creates a whole set of new problems and at best, exaggerates existing problems.
A victory in one is a hollow one and a defeat by one is a bitter one.
lazs
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nash... the issue isn't HOW you earn a perk plane... it's that they exist at all in an otherwise balanced arena. Do u feel any better if there are a dozen uber planes in the arena if you believe that the people that are in them "earned" them or, that when/if you kill the guy he will lose it and the next uber plane you are sweating bullets over is flown by someone different? and the next and the next and the next...
How many uber planes in the arena at a time is acceptable? How many to ruin the balance? I say 1 too many if he's around me.
Suddenly people aren't going to mind being killed by a plane that doesn't just have a guns advantage but is overall superior??? Naaa.... fly em all you like just make it so they can't come anywher near me right? Why would you want to attack my poor ol DHog with a -4 or Spit 14 anyway?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs:
nash... the issue isn't HOW you earn a perk plane... it's that they exist at all in an otherwise balanced arena.
lazs
What arena are you flying in? The one I fly in is 75% C-hogs and Nikis. I don't care how lethal it is, I'd just like to fight something different once in a while.
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I think he's talking about balance in terms of the plane-set.... the plane's abilities... er, right lazs?
The reasons fer the popularity of the Hog, and hence the unbalancing number (number - not performance) of them is due to people flocking to what they hear is this special uber plane, and the fact that you have a limited number of planes that can take off from the CV... the Hog being one of them.
I agree that that the number of Hogs is unbalanced with respect to the rest o the AC.... I'm just a little miffed at why this came about.
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Yes, balance as far as planes capabilities go. I cannot believe that anyone feels that even a 109 or 190 is at a dbig disadvantage when fighting a C hog for instance. IMO there will allways be a "most popular" plane even in the most balanced arena. The C hogs abilities are mediocre.
Add the -4 or the Spit 14 to the current mix and then you will know the meaning of unbalanced.
Point is and remains..... The crying and whining that is going on now is about planes with very little advantage over their peers.... I am flabergasted that the same jerkoffs want to add clearly superior AC (perk) to the mix! How can we on the one hand have this whining about current planes and on the other ask, no, beg for the imbalance of perk planes. What is the reasoning here?
Senseless and avoidable.
lazs
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My take on the reasons for the popularity of the Chog:
Very effective for ground attack. About the only plane with a hope of killing an Ostie without bombs. Also very effective against structures and ack.
Very effective in an MA environment. Roll rate, toughness, instantaneous turn rate, huge ammo supply, and BFG make the Chog ideal for snap shots, HO's, Spray-n-Pray, and vultching. 1v1 away from the furball, they are <cough> less effective.
Uh...what was the question? Oh...perk planes. I'm saving my perkies for a P-40N. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 01-09-2001).]
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Lazs, I think you're just being defensive over the eventual perking of the Chog. Regardless of what the Chog's advantages are over plane X, the fact is right now that almost 30% of sorties are being flown in the Chog, and Pyro wants to find a way to balance the plane sorties. The perk system fills this bill rather nicely.
Like any other perk plane, the Chog will be flown in smaller numbers than it currently is. A few perk planes here and there aren't going to overbalance the numbers in the area like the current Chogfest does now.
Take the ME-262 for example. It is definately an uber plane compared to the rest of the planes. But, restricted as a perk plane, there will only be a small percentage in the MA at any given time. It's not going to be a major threat to the vast majority of people flying in the arena.
Sure, the planeset as it stands now is relatively balanced, on a plane by plane basis. But it's not balanced in sortie ratio by plane type. That's why the Chog is destined for the perk market.
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Yes Rip, I see your point of view. However the Yak and the P-51 and every other plane have to be FLOWN to get a kill. CHOGS and N1Ks are point and spray. Yak has a very small ammo load, which has forced me, a recent Yak addict, to ACM and fire below d300 range. And I tell ya, it has enchanced my game 1000%! I feel that not only I "got him" but that I DESERVED the kill. My folks sometimes wonder what that grin of complete and utter satisfaction on my face is all about after I log off to eat. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
N1K has almost the same guns and a VERY good FM (almost UFO-Like... looping 10 times just after takeoff..wow!). CHOG riders will migrate to it after the CHOG is perked. After N1K is perked they may have to start to learn some ACM.
I applaud all D-Hog drivers. Its truely a joy to fly against them. It has become quite common to see a d1.1 CHOG spray your 6 praying to Saint Hispano. And mind you, thats one saint that answers the call! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
But when I see lotsa little fast ROF tracers fly by my 6 and see an F4U icon I get into ACM fighting to get him, cause its a D-Hog and I know it will be a fun fight. If I see a few, low rate of fire tracers flying around me and see an F4U icon spewing them I just run for it, as any turn or anything else you do will result in a massive vomiting of hispano that will result in the single ping of death.
Im not familiar with the F4U-4 people say should be perked. Is it faster? what?. If it has .50's i'll fight it using the best qualities of MY plane against the worst qualities of HIS plane. But against turbolaser cannon, it ceases to become a matter of ACM skill and becomes a matter of luck.
On the other hand though, I would like to see how the CHOGS would fare if there was a friendly-icon-only arena enviroment. Take their laser rangefinders and see how much % of kills they get. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Does anyone remember what plane got more than 20% of the kills in V.44? P51D Mustang. Guess it's turn to be perked will be coming soon after N1K and C-Hog are perked.
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guys... since the gun balance has improved i have flown all D hog and f6 sorties and am quite happy bigger ammo load, more bullets in the air.. I find the c hog a great target and would hate to see it go. If, OTOH, i want to take out that pesky ground vehicle.... I don't want some lame "this plane is unavailable to you" message. I don't want to keep track of what plane I can or can't fly.
Addmittedly, the Chog and niki perk crap will be the least offensive sense I don't care if I see any of em in the arena or not. they are a non issue no matter how many or little their numbers since their FM is simply a boogie man and not fact but...
The idiotic perk system will really bother me when real uber rides like the -4 and Spit 14 are perked in. I don't want em in the same arena as inferior planes no matter what the reason.
Again, how will "earning" uberplanes make them any less offensive than just choosing them in the arena.... Especially in light of the fact that the planes being complained about now are only slightly (if at all) better than the vast majority while.....the propossed perk planes will be vastly superior?
lazs
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Lazs,
I think you are correct to a point. I've said before that the perk system could lead to increased animosity in the arena. With all the "chog dweeb", "HO dweeb" and "N1k dweeb" calls in the arena these days... I shudder to think what the perk planes will bring.
People don't like fighting at a disadvantage. The perk planes will solve that for a small percentage of the pilots... er... wouldn't that put a large percent at an even greater disadvantage?
The above are my thoughts on the idea of the perk point system. Where we depart, lazs, is that I don't believe my view is the end-all-be-all of what will happen. I'm willing to take a brake from my complaint and sit back to see what happens.
To be honest... I hope I'm wrong. I hope the perk point system instills tactics that will drive the fights back up over 10k. I don't remember the last time I was up that high except to intercept a bomber.
I don't see the perk system as idiotic... more idealistic. I'm just too pecimistic to actually lend it my support. That said, I'm not bullish enough to feel I need to bash the system at every mention and refuse to believe that anything but the worse will happen.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 01-09-2001).]
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Just how vastly superior will these perk planes be?
Take the boogie man outta the perk planes...
I'm asking this sincerely... I really aint worried about them... but should I be?
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Ok fair enough.... crying before i'm hurt but...
nash... the -4 hog will climb about 4k per minute.... it will turn as well or better than the current hogs and do 380 on the deck and 446-460 at about 20k... Be very afraid. It will also look exactly like every other hog before, and while it kills you... Animosity? How ya gonna avoid it? Spit 14 will be the same deal compared to spit 9.
Soooo.... if we get this much animosity with a relatively well balanced plane set... Why wouldn't it be even worse with a perk idea and true uber planes?
They simply do not belong in the same arena as the other mid war planes. This is the main fact that cannot be changed.
lazs
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Yeah... hmm... I dunno.
As it is, most of the a/c in the arena already out-turns my ride, and when bounced, they're usually going twice as fast. I don't think I'm gonna see much that I haven't already been up against. I mean, if ya know how to avoid a bounce, you should be OK...
On the other hand, you ARE gonna see these perk planes lower and slower than you from time to time. If yer engaged with one, the folks in yer country are gonna be crawling all over themselves to clear yer 6 - you can bet on that.
I just... I dunno... there are a ton of variables....I guess we'll see.
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ah so the -4 hog is faster. Wicked!
Honestly, I really dont see a problem fighting a faster plane or a better turning one, as it is the pilot that has to make that advantage work for him. Just look at the Pony. Fastest mother in the arena and yet they are shot down with the same regularity as other planes. Their ratio aint so different. A slow pony is a dead pony. Just the same as a slow -4hog may be a dead hog.. its just a matter of the pilot's acm skills and how he uses his plane.
It would be the equivalent of perking the P-51D because the 202 cant match it. Its just ACM that matter in such a fight. HOwever, CHOGS and N1Ks hardly have to ACM.
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its just a matter of the pilot's acm skills and how he uses his plane
How is this different from the N1K2 and F4u-1C?
The perk planes might have 4 hispanos too.
AKDejaVu
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How is this different from the N1K2 and F4u-1C?
Because there won't be a perk plane getting 20% of the overall arena kills.
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-09-2001).]
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Because there won't be a perk plane getting 20% of the overall arena kills.
...and how does the N1K2 factor into that again? The 20% refference was for the F4u-1C. The N1K2 is being out-used by the F6F-5 and is just barely beating out the F4u-1D.
So.. just to clarify:
A slow pony is a dead pony. Just the same as a slow -4hog may be a dead hog.. its just a matter of the pilot's acm skills and how he uses his plane.
How is this different from the N1K2 and Chog?
The same excuses used to accept perk planes have been overlooked in F4u-1C and N1K2 discussions. The main digs on the F4u-1C and N1K2 are overlooked in regards to the perk planes. Suddenly, these things are no longer a big deal and everybody will accept it. Will they be used as much? Nope. Will they have more of an advantage? Yep.
The truth is, we'll just have to wait and see. I'll try not to slam the perk plane idea. You try not to make it sound like there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Deal?
AKDejaVu
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Again, how will "earning" uberplanes make them any less offensive than just choosing them in the arena....
Simply because everyone can't just select the perked planes on a whim. Because of the points involved, the perked numbers should be relatively small. They won't be as "offensive" because there won't be as many. I think the only real reason that the Chog is "offensive" right now is that there are so many of them around right now.
Lazs, don't put the cart before the horse. Let's just see how it all shakes out, maybe we'll both be surprised by the outcome.
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those who would use the 202 vs P51 comparison to justify the perk planes are missing the fundamental point of arena balance in my opinion. The 202 is not as fast as the 51 but it will outturn and ouclimb it handily. For some people the 202 (the absolute bottom of the barrel fighter in AH) will be a better (suited)plane for them.. In the perk idea... Several of the perk planes that i have seen mentioned do everything better than other planes they are the best choice for anyone.
Simply because I can avoid a perk plane by being diligent (assuming that i can even tell what kind of plane it is) does not negate the unbalancing factor. I will not enjoy being constantly "it" for the new AH version of dodgeball.
The more unbalanced an arena is the less fun it is for the majority.
Back to the original question tho.... What kind of victory is a victory in a "perk" plane? Not much of a one I say.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs:
Seriously... what kind of a dipshit would fly a perk plane....
First... Laz why are you always posting things in such a negative manner? You are always whining about something.
Second... When I earn my perk plane, your damned right I am going to fly it and I will enjoy the hell out of it.
Third... I would rather fight a single F4U-4 than two F4U-1Cs. Be real. How many perk planes do you think you will see at any one time?
I can fly my P-51D in and out of any fight I want, whenever I want. If I make a mistake, then I am vunerable and if I die because of it, such is life.
In this world, there will always be someone bigger, smarter, faster, stonger. Any of those traits can be an assest or liability, depending on the situation. A real man learns to expliot the other's liabilities while enhancing his own assests. Be a man, quit being wishy-washy and you will do just fine.
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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
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I would rather fight a single F4U-4 than two F4U-1Cs.
Why?
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"its just a matter of the pilot's acm skills and how he uses his plane.
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How is this different from the N1K2 and Chog?"
The keyword there, since you seem to have missed it, is SKILL. Any moron can get up in a chog, stall and spray. All that they need is one ping. Those that take off in a N1k (and those that will soon migrate to it after the chog is perked) will be even worse 'cause that plane is really hard to stall.
Skill as in get into someone's 6 and get a good clean shot. Not spray at d1.1 and get "the" ping o' death. I bet that if those that flew chogs now flew the d-hog, things would be MUCH more different. Its the same dang airplane, but its the guns that make the difference. A dhog spraying .50's at d1.1 wont get 20% of the kills in the MA, you can be sure of that. Kinda funny to see people whine about the CHOG's being perked, they still have the D-Hog...same plane, different guns (but just as deadly.. except that .50's force them to ACM for a change).
"I would rather fight a single F4U-4 than two F4U-1Cs."
I would fight TWO F4U-4's than one chog. Those F4U-4's will have to get on MY 6 and ACM me to death rather than spray turbolaser around
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 01-10-2001).]
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Hell Ive been ripped apart by a good burst of 50cal just as I have from a burst canon. I hate to say it but 50cals are made for spray and pray with a faster flater trajectory and more ammo. with the f4u1c and N1k2 i find it that you have to place your shots to get kills get some nasty lag (witch is abotu as close as your going to get to putting me into spray and pray mode) Iam lucky to get more then 1 kill sometimes I even depleate all my ammo due to lag just to injur someones plane. Iam willing to bet alot of those f4u1c pilots will either pay the perk price while others will move to the f4u1d n1k2-j and the typhoon. the best thing about the f4u1c is that it is the only fully canon equipt Carrier Aircraft. Its best suited for Asualting air fields. just remember if you take it away from one you take it from all. least my bases will feel a little safer. but if you think meating a f4u1c in the air is bad wait till you get jumped by a hoard of n1k2-js. You know I agree lets get the f4u4c in here I'll take it as a perk ride. its a perfected f4u1c so it should ee a little faster a little more manuverable had combat flaps and had a dive break (opened gear doors without fully extending the landing gear.) It carried more ordanance and more ammo then the f4u1c. cool bring it on I'll sacrafice my Chog for that baby!!!! even if it is a low coast perk ride!!!.
another thing if it is perked and pyro keeps the cost of it down to 1 or 2 points I can buy a hundred of them and still get enough points per flight just to buy more. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (I still think the f4u1d is better for Air to air and specially if you have an accuracy problem)
and I always have my n1k2-j that jek absolutley hates! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I can't wait. The crying will be so bad it will sound like a choir!!! LOL.
why don't you just learn to beet it sounds alot simpler to me then what most the cry babies are sugesting.
And if you use the "well I have no problem beating the f4u1c" excuse then why the hell are you crying about it? If it's so dam easy for you to kill then just kill it rather then whine about. Its no uberplane it has some really nasty weaknesses if you can learn exploit them. hell If the entire dam MA decided to fly a plane I can kill easily I'de have a freakin field day. hell I'de have enough freaking perk points I can buy myself an airforce (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW TAC IF you would stop trying to HO the chogs you might not die as often.
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-10-2001).]
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FYI: Drex hit me at D900 yards with .50 cal in the finals of the Con Duel, thus taking one of my 2 engines out on my P38..., so to think that long range shots are gonna be gone when the C-hog is gone is like living in a cave.
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The keyword there, since you seem to have missed it, is SKILL. Any moron can get up in a chog, stall and spray. All that they need is one ping. Those that take off in a N1k (and those that will soon migrate to it after the chog is perked) will be even worse 'cause that plane is really hard to stall.
Sigh...
I don't worry about the chog/N1K2 pilots you are describing here. I have not noticed them to be a problem. Its the skilled pilots that are inflating the stats. Truth be told.. those pilots are going to inflate the stats for whatever aircraft they move on to.
Now, we will have perk planes. Everyone in the arena will be able to have these at some time. What factor is being changed? What about the perk planes will require more ACM and more skill? They will be faster and better armed than the planes currently in the arena. What will make them better/easier to deal with?
Anyone arguing that dealing with 4 Chogs is too much of a pain should really tell everyone what plane you would prefer to deal with 4 of. I'm very curious as to what that might be. When jumping into a furball with 30 planes of wich 8 are F4u-1Cs, I don't focus only on the 1Cs knowing the rest are not a threat. In the current furball that is the MA... everything is a threat.
I also like the assumption that the ACM(or lack of) in regards to the F4u-1C pilots is strictly their responsibility. Afterall... ACM (or lack there of) had nothing to do with why your airplane ended up in front of theirs in the first place.
The plane doesn't make the pilot act like a dweeb. The pilot will be the same dweeb no matter what he is flying... perked or not.
AKDejaVu
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midnite... thank you for your thoughtfull advise and consul on the complexities of life. Even tho it has nothing whatsoever to do with a GAME and even though it was at best.... inane.. I appreciate the effort.
now... about this here game that we all pay the same to play..
I don't know how many perk planes will be in the arena at any one time but I suspect that at least 10% of the players will have them at all times. Some squadies of mine have close to 2,000 perk points so far. If others have only managed to accumulate 50 or so.... See a problem yet?
In any case... I can't imagine anyone being pleased at being killed by a "perk" plane especially in light of the total trauma caused now by something as inofensive as the chog. Is there a better way to create animosity in the arena than the perk system? If there is I can't think of it.
Can you imagine the buffer? "I am honored that your dash four would dain to kill my lowly P51. Thank you sir" or maybe just.. "thank you for showing me what it was really like to be on the toejamty end of the suypply line in WWII" or.... "well.. I'm sure you would have killed me in any plane anyway since you had the skill to earn the points to be in that uber plane".
lazs
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Rip, The P51 you're talking about is a completely different plane than we have now, you remember the FM change you sly dawg. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Did drex pop you with the .50's or the cannon? I've took long distance hits from him, and you and I both know that even the above average fighter pilot in Aces High doesn't have drex's aim. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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They were .50's hblair. I think this is from the con finals or semifinalls. I have the video from both sides of the fight laying around somewhere.
AKDejaVu
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Wrong Hblair, Con was Post-1.04. Same FM as we have now.
We were both in P38's, had he not killed the left engine, I'da won, hammar head stall scenario... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)(Didn't even expect to be in the finals, so, hey, I was happy!)
Here's the film, note that at the top of both our stalls, my left engine starts to feather...>< close, dang it!
http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/duel2.ZIP (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/duel2.ZIP)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-10-2001).]
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Lazs,
I will fly a perk plane because my long standing favorite kite will be a perk plane.
If all F4Us were perk planes, you'd fly a perk too I wager.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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yeah that damned Drex (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
hate seeing him as my opponent in ANY plane.
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Wrong Hblair, Con was Post-1.04. Same FM as we have now.
Damno Rip, you already forgot posting this?
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Does anyone remember what plane got more than 20% of the kills in V.44? P51D Mustang. Guess it's turn to be perked will be coming soon after N1K and C-Hog are perked.
That P51's flight model was changed, it used to be a great turner. Surely you remember that.
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 01-10-2001).]
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OH!~ I thought you were talking in response to the 2 vs 2 duel at the con...LOL...was wondering what someone slipped into your Coca-cola! hehehe!
So, that proves my point, FM is what made that A/C so attractive, as the 4x20mm makes the C-Hog so attractive...they'll just slip into the next 'Dweeb-mobile'... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lazs, one of the first so-called "sissies" will be you, when the Chog is perked.
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Originally posted by RAM:
Lazs, one of the first so-called "sissies" will be you, when the Chog is perked.
See told ya all he was a member of the evil chog hate group!
Remember even chogs need love!
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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tsjhooks need to be burned and destroyed.
And then put together and burned again.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg)
"I am the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldricht
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"BTW TAC IF you would stop trying to HO the chogs you might not die as often"
Im not THAT crazy. I only HO bombers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Compare the 1 ping you hear from getting hit by 1 bullet .50 cal to the 1 ping you hear when you get hit by a chog cannon (well, if you manage to hear it amongst the *CRACK* of your plane breaking into pieces). A spraying .50 cal will only injure you or whack a vital part if you're really out of luck. A hispano round will break the part of the airplane where that vital part is.
Akdejavu, you missed the point again. Its not SKILLED pilots im worried about in the chog. Its those who dont ACM or are interested in anything but spraying the air and getting kills. Just tonight over A8 I saw 2 such planes smacking planes outta the sky in extreme angle shots... one ping is all they need. I LOVE to face skilled pilots like Citabria and *brrr* CavemanJ in any other plane.. I know my chances of survival are quite limited, but at least I know they will ACM me.
"When jumping into a furball with 30 planes of wich 8 are F4u-1Cs, I don't focus only on the 1Cs knowing the rest are not a threat. In the current furball that is the MA... everything is a threat."
Yep, they all a threat, but them chogs and n1k's will be the ones getting most of the kills, as they just spray in general direction and *taadaa!* one kill. How many times have you been in such a furball, following someone, while his wingman is on your 6, you see a chog stalled or falling (without a tail or wing) but firing like mad. One ping and not only does the chog get a very undeserved kill, but also steals the possible kill of the wingman of the guy you are following AND completely spoils the entire ACM scene you had going with those 2.
In short, the sole reason WHY you are paying for this game is taken from under your feet thanks to a chog gone postal.
"why your airplane ended up in front of theirs in the first place"
err..no, that indicates they did some ACM'ing. If by chance I fly in front of them, they would kill me just as any other plane would.
""thank you for showing me what it was really like to be on the toejamty end of the suypply line in WWII" "
LOL!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Chogs are evil and must be destroyed... and perked. squeak all ye want, if you really need to kill something without ACM'ing go play QUAKE.
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sigh.... Are you done, Tac?
bullocks....
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The chog is perked now, the N1k I predict will follow. I rest my case sir <S> *grin*
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ram.. I don't think I will use the chog when it is perked. I don't use it at all now. I fly the D and hellcat but... I have had a freind put in a new modem for me and the fifties have been improved. The D works fine for me now. I like the ammo load of the D. I will be bummed tho that I can't jump off a carrier or a base in a chog to kill ground vehicles or pt's or something. I never saw any big deal with the plane but it looks like it is a matter of usage.
It's not anything special in my opinion but if it is so unbalancing numbers wise then just get rid of it. Period.
"Perking" solves nothing except frequency. Those that get killed by it (any perk plane)will still whine no matter the reason that it is in the arena unless..... It is in an arena or an area that is full of equally (or percieved equally) deadly planes.
An RPS has it's problems too. People will lose interest when they can't fly their favorite ride for any length of time no matter how short.
The perk system will be a confsing mess custom made for animosity. Uber rides of varying degrees will be scattered around the arena at all times. Newbies and infrequnt players will care not a whit how much you "earned" the perk plane you just killed their Spit 5 with. They will only know that some people get great planes and others don't. All they will see is an arena filled with disparity...... And.... They will be right.
Early, mid and late war areas in the same arena but in different "areas" seem to be the only answer to me. It would be fair and it would be fun for ANYONE and it would solve the problem of what to do with each new plane as it is introduced.
lazs
[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 01-11-2001).]
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I have had a freind put in a new modem for me and the fifties have been improved.
So all that whining you did about how the .50's were porked was really a hardware problem on your end? Hehe, maybe that should be a lesson to you about going off half-cocked before you have all the facts in. Kinda like this whine, Lazs.
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banana... i have said all along that i felt that the problem with the fifties, FOR ME, was, my connect, dispertion or both... I have also said that I didn't really care why there was a problem only that there was and that was the reason for my picking the C over the D.
The fifties work well enough for me now. I am glad no matter what the reason. The chog seems no more uber flying against it in dhogs than it did when i was flying a chog.
It was never uber and seeing less of em is a non issue for me.
Perking planes however is not a non issue. I did not sign on to everquest my way up to whatever it is they do.
most will notice nothing about the system except that they are being killed by uber planes (real or percieved)that are unavailable to them.
I think you will see less of whatever the current demon plane is but you will also see less players.
lazs