Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Rick Opp on September 13, 2004, 01:26:46 PM
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Please, PLEASE! turn off the ENY system that limits the type of planes you can fly.
It is very frustrating not to be able to fly the planes that you like.
From the posts I have read, there are a lot of others that feel the same way.
The game worked before why change it.
Example: This last weekend I was defending a Rook base where enemy planes outnumbered friendlies 3 or 4 to 1. I could not fly anything less than I think it was 22 or 25.
The ENY limitations take the fun out of it. Almost to the point of making me want to quit.
If the game was free it might be different but I hate paying a monthly fee and not being able to fly the planes I like. And I shouldn't have to change sides to do it.
Stepping down from soap box.
Rick
:mad:
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Originally posted by Rick Opp
Please, PLEASE! turn off the ENY system that limits the type of planes you can fly.
It is very frustrating not to be able to fly the planes that you like.
From the posts I have read, there are a lot of others that feel the same way.
The game worked before why change it.
Example: This last weekend I was defending a Rook base where enemy planes outnumbered friendlies 3 or 4 to 1. I could not fly anything less than I think it was 22 or 25.
The ENY limitations take the fun out of it. Almost to the point of making me want to quit.
If the game was free it might be different but I hate paying a monthly fee and not being able to fly the planes I like. And I shouldn't have to change sides to do it.
Stepping down from soap box.
Rick
:mad:
This is a glaring example of why the ENY system is deeply and irrevocably flawed at its core. It does not take into consideration the disposition of forces. Just because the three countries have an equal number of people logged in does not mean the arena is balanced in terms of gameplay for each of those countries. Conversely, just because the three countries are disparate in terms of people logged in does not in any way mean the arena is in fact unblanced. The presumption of the ENY system is that forces are arrayed in equal and congruent proportion, this is RARELY the case. Often, the country with the most people is not only facing more enemy by far than the other two countries but is also being penalized in the process by the ENY system. This is a profound and deep flaw. Surely, HT, a man of logic and rational thought can comprehend how fundamentally flawed and presumptuous this system is.
Zazen
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Just a finger in the air type gauging, but there does seem to be a greater volume of complaining after the ENY than before. I do wonder if this may be a lesson being taught by Hitech on the virtues of listening to his first polite requests to fix a major issue rather than the whine fests about issues we so dearly enjoy....??????
Hitech I have learned my lesson. But sorry if I change from nite to rook, I will only help make the problem worse.:)
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Originally posted by Rick Opp
Example: This last weekend I was defending a Rook base where enemy planes outnumbered friendlies 3 or 4 to 1. I could not fly anything less than I think it was 22 or 25.
Rick:mad:
rick: if the eny limiter was *that* high, there's no reason why some of your horde couldn't be bothered to defend that base.
zazen: local odds can be changed when you have a horde on your side.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Zazen13
This is a glaring example of why the ENY system is deeply and irrevocably flawed at its core. It does not take into consideration the disposition of forces. Just because the three countries have an equal number of people logged in does not mean the arena is balanced in terms of gameplay for each of those countries. Conversely, just because the three countries are disparate in terms of people logged in does not in any way mean the arena is in fact unblanced. The presumption of the ENY system is that forces are arrayed in equal and congruent proportion, this is RARELY the case. Often, the country with the most people is not only facing more enemy by far than the other two countries but is also being penalized in the process by the ENY system. This is a profound and deep flaw. Surely, HT, a man of logic and rational thought can comprehend how fundamentally flawed and presumptuous this system is.
Zazen
Jiminy Crickets Zaz ... stop with the drama already.
Your need to over dramatise the results of the ENY system up to this point only adds fuel to the fire. You need to try to calm the masses down ... not incite riot.
"This is a glaring example of why the ENY system is deeply and irrevocably flawed at its core"
"This is a profound and deep flaw. Surely, HT, a man of logic and rational thought can comprehend how fundamentally flawed and presumptuous this system is".
Ya know ... come across as a very learned person, but it is painfully obvious that you know JACK SQAUT when it comes to programming and development. Take some night courses and when you get a couple of million lines under your belt, then speak with such drama.
Do you know for a fact that HT has done NOTHING to enhance or modify the ENY disabler ? I would bet dollars to donuts that the iteration that we see now is not his final shot at this, or he just might dump it all together.
Ya know why I would make that bet ? ... cause I have at least 8 million lines of code under my belt.
Let's be calm and wait and see what transpires within the next release or 2 before we start playing chicken little.
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Originally posted by Shane
[B
zazen: local odds can be changed when you have a horde on your side.
:rolleyes: [/B]
Shane, dude, we aren't talking hordes here, we're talking a difference of as little as 10% between the countries being enough to eliminate a good portion of the planes from the set. Now if the country with a 20% advantage is getting penalized and is also facing 80% of the enemy from both the other countries, that my friend is a major balance issue. This scenario is quite frequent for countries in the reset corner, or those with a limited number of fields remaining. The ENY system does nothing to address ACTUAL arena balance as it impacts gameplay. Nothing, nada, zip. All it does is crank out some arbitrary penalty based on the relationship of the raw numbers of people logged on for each country.
Zazen
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Gotta agree.
Local superiority in numbers is always going to be there no matter what.
Valid tactics.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Jiminy Crickets Zaz ... stop with the drama already.
Your need to over dramatise the results of the ENY system up to this point only adds fuel to the fire. You need to try to calm the masses down ... not incite riot.
"This is a glaring example of why the ENY system is deeply and irrevocably flawed at its core"
"This is a profound and deep flaw. Surely, HT, a man of logic and rational thought can comprehend how fundamentally flawed and presumptuous this system is".
Ya know ... come across as a very learned person, but it is painfully obvious that you know JACK SQAUT when it comes to programming and development. Take some night courses and when you get a couple of million lines under your belt, then speak with such drama.
Do you know for a fact that HT has done NOTHING to enhance or modify the ENY disabler ? I would bet dollars to donuts that the iteration that we see now is not his final shot at this, or he just might dump it all together.
Ya know why I would make that bet ? ... cause I have at least 8 million lines of code under my belt.
Let's be calm and wait and see what transpires within the next release or 2 before we start playing chicken little.
Wonderfully easy for you to say. But, unfortunately, it is nothing more than conjecture, guesswork and wishfull thinking on your part, at this point. I will continue to voice my opinion on this issue until it is actually addressed, in-game, not in your fantasy. That is how things get changed around here apparently!?!?
Oh, and by the way, I have done quite a bit of programming, including some C++ back in my college days (mostly COBOL).
Zazen
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My original post was to let HTC know that I did not like the ENY system. It appears that there are a lot of others that do not like it either.
I am also a programmer and I know that if my customers let me know of a problem I will fix it. I also know that if only 1 or 2 out of 100 complain, I will be less likely do do anything about it. I wanted to get my opinion stated.
Here is another question..... Has anyone heard any feedback from HTC on this issue?
Perhaps an update from HTC would be appropriate.
Later
Rick
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Originally posted by Rick Opp
Here is another question..... Has anyone heard any feedback from HTC on this issue?
Perhaps an update from HTC would be appropriate.
Well, to be fair, they have responded on this issue, after a fashion. I think their position is still to watch and see what happens. I do not know yet if this is permenant, but I do know it can be turned on and off so any reset of the arena could effectively remove it. Since there has been a lot of chatter on the board about the ENY thingie, I don't think we can expect them to respond on each of these posts.
Just my thoughts
:D
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mostly COBOL
That is NOT programming ... :lol
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I take it that he was trying to up from a nearly vulched base?
Wouldn't have thought plane option would make much difference in that case.
Also if you were ENV limited, where were the rest of the Rooks? Obviously off doing to another base what your base was getting done to and probably with a greater than 3 or 4 to 1 advantage.
.
For an ENV of 20-25, thats a lot of Rooks on compared to other lowest country.
Funny how Rooks love to gangbang other two countires, but hate it when it happens to them.
I like the ENV system, may need aircraft ENV's modified, but HT has already said that this would be done.
There's nothing 'deeply flawed', local forces will fluctuate always (even with even munbers), as is obvious in this case.
Said it once i'll say it again -
THIS IS A LONG TERM FIX NOT A MAGIC BULLET INSTANT FIX.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Said it once i'll say it again -
THIS IS A LONG TERM FIX NOT A MAGIC BULLET INSTANT FIX.
The Magick Bullet that finalized my decision to leave. It's nothing to do about programming, and everything about _Game_ play.
{Salute}
Why I have left: (http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129999)
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2hawks, your machine isn't/wasn't running the game right. I saw those screen shots you posted. With the artifacts and por frame rates you got I don't know how you were flying the game and enjoying it at all. So, in reality your problems had very little to do with game design but yes, game play - as in you machine doesnt play AHII very well and that alone would frustrate anyone.
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My humble opinion:
I have only flown this game for about 6 months so I just saw the end of AH1 then the conversion to AH2 up to now. I hear a lot of complaints from long time subscribers about the differences between the two game versions. For the most part I have no complaints about the new version. It is harder but it seems to be harder for everyone so that is fair. My problem with ENY is that it doesn't fix a problem, it causes one. Imbalance is a part of war and will always be a part of war. This is a war game and if the attempt at realism is part of the object of the game then imbalance is a part of it. I have flown for different sides and all I see as a difference in the experience is that I can fly what I want (and am able to fly) on some sides more than others. All sides are affected by ENY but some are affected more often. I do not see it evening the playing field at all. All I see is it being another wedge to drive away long time subscribers who are already frustrated with the game change. I just want to have fun here and fly planes that I like to fly. Sometimes keeping it simple is the best plan of attack. ENY overcomplicates an already complicated process.
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Originally posted by BigFlop
My humble opinion:
I have only flown this game for about 6 months so I just saw the end of AH1 then the conversion to AH2 up to now. I hear a lot of complaints from long time subscribers about the differences between the two game versions. For the most part I have no complaints about the new version. It is harder but it seems to be harder for everyone so that is fair. My problem with ENY is that it doesn't fix a problem, it causes one. Imbalance is a part of war and will always be a part of war. This is a war game and if the attempt at realism is part of the object of the game then imbalance is a part of it. I have flown for different sides and all I see as a difference in the experience is that I can fly what I want (and am able to fly) on some sides more than others. All sides are affected by ENY but some are affected more often. I do not see it evening the playing field at all. All I see is it being another wedge to drive away long time subscribers who are already frustrated with the game change. I just want to have fun here and fly planes that I like to fly. Sometimes keeping it simple is the best plan of attack. ENY overcomplicates an already complicated process.
Comparing AH to war ... well this is what HiTech had to say ...
HiTech : And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair. While war is not ment to be either fair or fun.
FUN is the name of the game ... not WAR.
The horde was causing 2/3rds of the population to not have fun. Nobody wanted to switch sides and try to balance the arena so HT brought forth the ENY disabler (suggested by a player). If you don't want to switch then you will have to "horde" in the lesser planes while the overwhelmed have the advantage in the more powerful planes.
Remember, if the arena is balanced according to HT's parameters, then the ENY disabler is a NO-OP ... simple.
As far a driving away long time subscribers ... oh well ... there are others that can take over when they leave. AH does not revolve around "long time subscribers".
Any major change will bring discomfort and along with that, some people will choose to leave. Some left when the new bombsight was introduced - some left when AH II went live - some left when the ENY disabler came about. Such is the evolution of a game.
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I don't mind change.
I've played both AH1 and AH2. And I have no problem with the switchover to AH2. I like many of the improvements in AH2.
I don't mind changing sides as long as the rest of my squad makes the same change.
I don't like the ENY system not allowing me to fly what I want to. I am a relative newbee and still in the skill building stage so there are few planes that I am good in. When I finally build up enough perc points I would like to be able to use them.
Before the ENY system was turned on if your side was outnumbered, the game reset quicker. That's all, no problem.
I am much more frustrated with the ENY system than I ever was with being outnumbered or more frequent resets.
Rick AKA RDO310
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Originally posted by Zanth
2hawks, your machine isn't/wasn't running the game right. I saw those screen shots you posted. With the artifacts and por frame rates you got I don't know how you were flying the game and enjoying it at all. So, in reality your problems had very little to do with game design but yes, game play - as in you machine doesnt play AHII very well and that alone would frustrate anyone.
AH is the *_ONLY_* Game my machine isn't running right. I have been in IT for some 13 years (1991) and have programmed since I was 15.
Blow it out the oriface of your preference.
Dan.
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Originally posted by 2Hawks
AH is the *_ONLY_* Game my machine isn't running right. I have been in IT for some 13 years (1991) and have programmed since I was 15.
Blow it out the oriface of your preference.
Dan.
Well ... I have been in IT and programming since 1978 and I concur with Kanth.
So stick that in "the oriface of your preference." ... ;)
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I have to admit, getting AH2 to run perfectly is more difficult than having any other game run flawlessly. Its the same way all the AW series was as well, I've had to swap out some guts (even brand new ones) to get just the right settings.
I'm having another problem vid card issue (http://hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130046) but I know at least I'm not alone and HTC has a really decent customer service/support history, so no worries.
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Before the ENY system was turned on if your side was outnumbered, the game reset quicker. That's all, no problem.
"No problem" ... thats from your standpoint ... there is a whole lot more that didn't and still don't agree with that standpoint.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Before the ENY system was turned on if your side was outnumbered, the game reset quicker. That's all, no problem.
"No problem" ... thats from your standpoint ... there is a whole lot more that didn't and still don't agree with that standpoint.
Thats fine. Personally, I prefer not to fly with whiners anyways. Lest AH decide to handicap personal accounts like adding weight to AC good pilots fly, or shortening fuel consumption for that craft Etc. Etc. Etc.
From a financial standpoint HT's ENY decision is quite wise, as there are far [CENSOR] (less intellectually demanding customers) who pay for easy entertainment than there are hard core simmers. It would seem that the boot has been given to that elite group much the same as when AW was shut down. Albiet much nicer than what was done by Electronic Arts with Kesmai's Air Warrior. It's a "non-inclusion" more or less.
AH was there to fill the void, is there nothing better anymore?
<-- Looks to WWII Online and LOMAC
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Originally posted by 2Hawks
Thats fine. Personally, I prefer not to fly with whiners anyways. Lest AH decide to handicap personal accounts like adding weight to AC good pilots fly, or shortening fuel consumption for that craft Etc. Etc. Etc.
From a financial standpoint HT's ENY decision is quite wise, as there are far [CENSOR] (less intellectually demanding customers) who pay for easy entertainment than there are hard core simmers. It would seem that the boot has been given to that elite group much the same as when AW was shut down. Albiet much nicer than what was done by Electronic Arts with Kesmai's Air Warrior. It's a "non-inclusion" more or less.
AH was there to fill the void, is there nothing better anymore?
<-- Looks to WWII Online and LOMAC
LOL ... your too much !!!
Yeah ... its all the "intellectuals" that are hard core simmers and they have been "pushed out" or given the "boot" because of changes they don't like. And I suppose you consider yourself a card carrying member of the "Elietist" following.
Please ... What its really sounds like are those people are of a kindergarten IQ who must stamp their feet and whail at the top of their lungs when they are not given what they want. I want 3 cookies ... not 2 !!!
Do us all a favor ... go to WWII Online and/or LOMAC and save us all your non-stop trolling and whining.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
LOL ... your too much !!!
Yeah ... its all the "intellectuals" that are hard core simmers and they have been "pushed out" or given the "boot" because of changes they don't like. And I suppose you consider yourself a card carrying member of the "Elietist" following.
Please ... What its really sounds like are those people are of a kindergarten IQ who must stamp their feet and whail at the top of their lungs when they are not given what they want. I want 3 cookies ... not 2 !!!
Do us all a favor ... go to WWII Online and/or LOMAC and save us all your non-stop trolling and whining.
<< ROFL >>
Lets see, I have flown sims since MS flightsim 3, when it fit on less than two floppies. any combat sim between 1988 and today. Lan parties, events, cons etc. etc. etc. wanna see my card? Just acknowledging the apparent end of an era.
I would point out however, that you failed to note that in my previous post, I used words like "it would seem" or "Lest such action happen".
It was apparently in your mind where the acknowledgment was made that my post does indeed point out the truth of the matter. This was immediatly reinforced by your attempt to attack the credibility of my post by insinuating that I am a kindergartner not getting my cookies. 3 Cookies, I might remind you I pay 14.95 a month for. Or if you want to count craft as cookies, some 37 or whatever the current count is.
The "Intellectual" bit was attempt to censor my initial impulse. However given the direction the present conversationis taking, I think I might have been right...
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Originally posted by Rick Opp
I am a relative newbee and still in the skill building stage so there are few planes that I am good in.
That was true for all of us. Don't worry, the ENY thing has nothing to do with that. Pick a nice middle-of-the-road plane...a spitfire of some sort, or a 109F, or a Ki-61 or P47D-11, or even a Hurri II or P40E, and learn to fly it. You won't be dependent upon ENY then.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Zazen13
This is a glaring example of why the ENY system is deeply and irrevocably flawed at its core. It does not take into consideration the disposition of forces. Just because the three countries have an equal number of people logged in does not mean the arena is balanced in terms of gameplay for each of those countries. Conversely, just because the three countries are disparate in terms of people logged in does not in any way mean the arena is in fact unblanced. The presumption of the ENY system is that forces are arrayed in equal and congruent proportion, this is RARELY the case. Often, the country with the most people is not only facing more enemy by far than the other two countries but is also being penalized in the process by the ENY system. This is a profound and deep flaw. Surely, HT, a man of logic and rational thought can comprehend how fundamentally flawed and presumptuous this system is.
Zazen
And this is a glaring example as to why a forces dispersal system would be the correct approach to balance.
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Originally posted by bustr
I do wonder if this may be a lesson being taught by Hitech on the virtues of listening to his first polite requests to fix a major issue rather than the whine fests about issues we so dearly enjoy....??????
i seriously doubt that. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Kev367th
....
Funny how Rooks love to gangbang other two countires, but hate it when it happens to them.
...
THIS IS A LONG TERM FIX NOT A MAGIC BULLET INSTANT FIX.
What really is starting to tick me off is people using the Sunday night Rook squad night as a justification for ENY, and then as a way to both justify *and* deny that Rooks are ganged up on during the week when they as often as not have the fewest players online.
Before ENY I usually avoided Sunday nights because I never much liked the Horde. But now I find I prefer Sunday - I like to fly mid-war planes and there's a nice "bunker" mentality going on since everyone seems convinced that ENY was put in as something against Rooks (just read the BBS and it becomes clear how much "we had it coming"). I avoid flying most weeknights since ENY because whenever I show up I look at the map and the red dar-bars are hardly anywhere but the Rook front. We're usually holding the fewest fields and the first 2 or 3 front-line fields I go to the tower in are all being vultched. Maybe its the times I fly, but its gotten worse since ENY.
I don't mind flying lesser planes, but I do mind the politics at play here. I mind it a lot. Most of it is terribly selfish and it's hurting the game as a whole. As a concept, penalizing a team who is trying to win by shear weight of numbers alone is fine. But it's not being applied fairly given the player distribution at the time it was enforced. If this is indeed a long-term fix, only one group of players is paying the freight.
I know many won't agree with me, but I don't give a crap anymore. I have spent a lot of time in this BBS the last few weeks on some very, very well thought-out discussions with folks from all different teams. Some awesome ideas came out of these from many different people - ideas which would really make the MA a more interesting place. It was great to see players put aside their MA politics and collaborate like that.
And then it all ends up back at comments like I quoted at the top (and I'm not singling out Kev). Is it any wonder that so players are considering walking away?
-DoK
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Originally posted by 2Hawks
<< ROFL >>
Lets see, I have flown sims since MS flightsim 3, when it fit on less than two floppies. any combat sim between 1988 and today. Lan parties, events, cons etc. etc. etc. wanna see my card? Just acknowledging the apparent end of an era.
I would point out however, that you failed to note that in my previous post, I used words like "it would seem" or "Lest such action happen".
It was apparently in your mind where the acknowledgment was made that my post does indeed point out the truth of the matter. This was immediatly reinforced by your attempt to attack the credibility of my post by insinuating that I am a kindergartner not getting my cookies. 3 Cookies, I might remind you I pay 14.95 a month for. Or if you want to count craft as cookies, some 37 or whatever the current count is.
The "Intellectual" bit was attempt to censor my initial impulse. However given the direction the present conversationis taking, I think I might have been right...
All your posts point out now, is sour grapes. You got on the grand stage of the "General Forum" and bid your "adieu".
You gave us all the reasons why, yet you still hang around dropping your troll/flamebait bombs in all sorts of threads. For what ? Your done with AH and "Looking to WWII Online and LOMAC" ... aren't you ?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
All your posts point out now, is sour grapes. You got on the grand stage of the "General Forum" and bid your "adieu".
You gave us all the reasons why, yet you still hang around dropping your troll/flamebait bombs in all sorts of threads. For what ? Your done with AH and "Looking to WWII Online and LOMAC" ... aren't you ?
I have a vague hope that there might be an inkling of improvement.
As for troll / flamebait I think not. I stated before, I hope that any input in the form of my opinion I give might lend to the general voice towards salvaging what was and still could be a great combat sim. If you don't like my opinion fine. It doesn't make it flamebait unless you want it to.
Quit looking for reasons to discredit or reduce the validity of my opinion please. It's tiresome.
Every bit of what upsets me is currently experienced in the MA. Which is the primary reason I fly. I could go to the H2H arenas or other places. But it's what the MA was that attracted me to the game, and kept me.
Flamebaiting would be asking if you felt threatened by good strong posts about why ENY is so bad for the MA. But I am not asking that. so don't answer. :)
Dan.
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Originally posted by 2Hawks
I have a vague hope that there might be an inkling of improvement.
As for troll / flamebait I think not. I stated before, I hope that any input in the form of my opinion I give might lend to the general voice towards salvaging what was and still could be a great combat sim. If you don't like my opinion fine. It doesn't make it flamebait unless you want it to.
Quit looking for reasons to discredit or reduce the validity of my opinion please. It's tiresome.
Every bit of what upsets me is currently experienced in the MA. Which is the primary reason I fly. I could go to the H2H arenas or other places. But it's what the MA was that attracted me to the game, and kept me.
Flamebaiting would be asking if you felt threatened by good strong posts about why ENY is so bad for the MA. But I am not asking that. so don't answer. :)
Dan.
Fair enough ... but please explain to me what is constructive about this post ?
Thats fine. Personally, I prefer not to fly with whiners anyways. Lest AH decide to handicap personal accounts like adding weight to AC good pilots fly, or shortening fuel consumption for that craft Etc. Etc. Etc.
From a financial standpoint HT's ENY decision is quite wise, as there are far [CENSOR] (less intellectually demanding customers) who pay for easy entertainment than there are hard core simmers. It would seem that the boot has been given to that elite group much the same as when AW was shut down. Albiet much nicer than what was done by Electronic Arts with Kesmai's Air Warrior. It's a "non-inclusion" more or less.
AH was there to fill the void, is there nothing better anymore?
<-- Looks to WWII Online and LOMAC
or this one, where Kanth was seriously trying to help ...
AH is the *_ONLY_* Game my machine isn't running right. I have been in IT for some 13 years (1991) and have programmed since I was 15.
Blow it out the oriface of your preference.
Dan.
The ... Blow it out the oriface of your preference. ... was a nice touch.
Maybe you ought to repost to you "farewell" post and tell everybody that you got a little hasty and have instead decided to stick around in spite of all the problems that you are experiencing.
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Now whos flame-baiting?
For the Love of God, let it be.
You seem to be the only one here who's offended. Get off it. This isn't the topic that is being discussed. However since it ISN'T being discussed anymore I feel no reason to post more beyond this point.
If you feed the troll it grows. No more troll feed for slapshot.
Gents.
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Originally posted by 2Hawks
Now whos flame-baiting?
For the Love of God, let it be.
You seem to be the only one here who's offended. Get off it. This isn't the topic that is being discussed. However since it ISN'T being discussed anymore I feel no reason to post more beyond this point.
If you feed the troll it grows. No more troll feed for slapshot.
Gents.
True ... I am done with it.
I hope you stick around ... <>