Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hangtime on January 08, 2001, 12:20:00 PM
-
Gimme an A26A Invader!!
Ysssssssssss; oh yes yes yes!
Anybody got any good artwork on A26A's ??
Hang
-
P61..OKAY,So it WAS declared a fighter, but it will work!
-
Stuka (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Arado 234
------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-08-2001).]
-
Nash... the Stuka as a perk? You insane! That thing is fodder for any aircraft out there.
I would LOVE to see the A-26 'vader here. I flew it almost exclusively in Air Warrior 3. What a PUPPY! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
b29!!!!
-
Yah I know Tac, it's not the best performer out there, but damn - those sirens would kick ass! Hell, I'd trade in perk points just to be able to attach em to any ride I'm in!
Stuka! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Bring on the a26...we need a good attack aircraft (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Think it had an option of 20mm or .50cal...8 .50s or 4 20mm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) thats a package!! dunno the bomb payload think its up there...4k or more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
350kts!
-
a26 though definitely a great choice for perk bomber.
awsome plane
-
Originally posted by Nash:
Yah I know Tac, it's not the best performer out there, but damn - those sirens would kick ass! Hell, I'd trade in perk points just to be able to attach em to any ride I'm in!
Stuka! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Maybe if we get some better support of external sounds, instead of evrything being so damed quiet. I still think that is one of the most lacking things in AH as far as immersion goes.
Right now, if the Stuka was here, and it had the dive sirens, you would be the only one to hear it. What fun is that?
------------------
"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
-
Originally posted by Nash:
Yah I know Tac, it's not the best performer out there, but damn - those sirens would kick ass! Hell, I'd trade in perk points just to be able to attach em to any ride I'm in!
Stuka! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The F4U is supposed to whistle when it comes in fast, because of the speed the air moves over and into the wing mounted radiators. It would be cool to be able to sit on the ground or in the cockpit and hear that. I don't fly the F4U much except on carrier ops.. but it would be cool to get a warning when you are about to get vulched!! <G>
-SW
-
There are no perk bombers, only perk loadouts.
Personally I don't want the A-26 perked, it's merely a plane of trade offs, and it's best preformence altitudes would make it easy meat for fighters.
I'd really like to see all but the unbalancingly fast bombers available all the time, but with the more unbalancing load out options costing perk points (like getting all four duce gun pods in addition to the strafer nose on the A-26, plus the rockets, bombs and both turrents)
Even the B-29 could be manageable if it had a reduced "normal" arena load out. With the current buff gun system the B-17 is even better off defensively, it's a large target with a pressurized cabin that can cause nasty explosions. Then you could, of course, use some perk points to buy the entire load.
But there just aren't enough bombers that have enough qualities for perking, because they will always be killable by fighters by the sheer nature of their operation. Where as some perk fighters would have the capability to stay alive when flown smart, no matter how smart a buff pilot is, there is little they would be able to do to protect their plane while still using it for what it's intended for.
Thus is the nature of the arena.
-
Ar 234 Blitz would be nice! Extremely fast bomber plane, well naturally, since it was first operational jet bomber.
I find B-29 somehow ordinary or unimaginative. He 177 could be Luftwaffes perk bomber but it was not that special in its abilities.
------------------
jochen Gefectsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
-
Blitz please
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0121.jpg)
------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-08-2001).]
-
I saw that bomber in person Raub. They fixed it up at the National Air and Space Museum Restoration Center in Maryland and then moved it to the National Air and Space Museum where it sat on display for a year. This was several years ago, but I got to sit in the pilot's seat. I won a trip to the NAS Restoration Center on a 7th grade science fair project many many years ago for a project I did on airfoils and how they affect lift. But man, it was just great to be able to get the pilot's view and get a look around that Arado's cockpit. SUHWEET!!!!!
I don't know where they moved it to, but I sure wish I could see it again in person.
-SW
-
The ONLY two bombers that I know of that would qualify as perks are the Ar234 and the B-29.
The He177 should be a normal, selectable aircraft when it is added.
You should get mega perk point bonuses for flying a successful mission in a Stuka.
------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 01-08-2001).]
-
Yes, an A-26 Invader could 'perk' me up :}
------------------
576 Squadron - Bomber Command
-
Ar-234 and A-26 seem like the obvious choices. B-29 too I guess, and the Ju-288?
-
The A26 was an incredible attack aircraft.. up to TWENTY TWO .50 cal MG's; (16 of 'em pilot controlled, firing forward) 6000lbs of bomb load, 350mph at 20K and a 2,OOO fpm climb rate. And that was just the WWII solid nose version. Hell; they got even meaner after that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://www.photohome.com/pictures/aircraft-pictures/bombers/a-26-invader-1.jpg)
It remained in the inventory; blowin stuff up and howling down thru canyons and valleys relentlessly attacking ground assets of the germans; the japanese; the koreans the cubans and the vietnamese over the course of about 30 years.. and when they were finally yanked off the line it was not because a replacement had been found, but because the few that were left were so damn tired... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Even now; AirSpray still has 18 of 'em tearing down thru canyons; fightin fires intead of lighting 'em. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
This beast could have a significant impact on strat in the game.. and tho I agree; it need not be perked, I contend that it SHOULD be here in the sim in some form.. the sooner; the better. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Need someplace dead, quick?? GIMMIE AN A26! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 01-08-2001).]
-
Generally though, the common A-26 combat package was the 8 or 6 gun strafer nose, and the twin gun upper turrent.
Sometimes the duce pods were added, but usually only two. Same with rockets, the lower turrent, and the various bomb loads.
I think the 20 and 22 gun configurations were for test purposes only. And why would you need that many guns? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The nose guns alone carried @ 1600 rpg. Thats plenty for anyone.
But 350mph at 20k is still pretty slow compared to most fighters, and it's only going to be able to bring one turrent at a time to bare. And it's going to be down on the deck to put those guns to any good use (well other then ACMs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
I'd like to see three versions myself: The level medium bomber configuration (alot faster then the B-26 but defensive guns are not nearly as effective, especially if the periscope sights are implemented.
The 8 or 6 gun strafer nose with bottom turrent flared over or removed, and the several ammunition loads for the nose guns including the 1600 rpg option (!) and the other shorter belts. Perhaps lighter ordinance or rocket option. In most ground attack missions they didn't load the bigger ordinance often and is why it often gets the "Light bomber" designation. I suppose I wouldn't want 1000lbers or 500 GP's slung under me if I was doing N.O.E. missions
Then of course the perk version, including the heavy ordinance options, both or neither turrents, rockets, gun pods, and the A-26 adaptation of the Soviet quad 20mm Hispano nose used on the A-20 on the Easterb front (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The only two I can think of that would have a consistant rate of surviving arena play and thats the Ar234 and the B-29. Anything else can be chased down and shot up by the better part of the plane set.
-
The Arado 234
The B-29 Superfort
The A-26 Invader
Other than those, I also cannot think of a super bomber. Maybe some of the concept art bombers the Germans had, but not many of them actually became anything.
Hans.
-
B36?
-
Aircraft and Vehicles Forum? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Anyway,
Ar-234
Ju-388
B-29
A-26
Mossie NF. Mk-30 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs
'Criticism is always easier then craftmanship.'
-
Oh....sure perk the B-29. Just hope your ready to climb up to 30+K and listen to the whines about the stratobuff dweeb. The B-29 regularly flew missions between 20-37K (i think)
As long as we get an A-bomb.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
Lt. Col. Aaron "txace-" Giles of the 457th BG
"Fait Accompli"
-
A-36 Apache. P-51 looks, dive brakes, a wail worse then any Stuka ever thought of having, P-51 looks, dive brakes, Allison engine, and did I mention the P-51 looks and dive brakes?
http://www.cfwest.net/aircraft/apache/apache.htm (http://www.cfwest.net/aircraft/apache/apache.htm)
Voss 13th T.A.S.
-
Originally posted by texace:
Oh....sure perk the B-29. Just hope your ready to climb up to 30+K and listen to the whines about the stratobuff dweeb. The B-29 regularly flew missions between 20-37K (i think)
As long as we get an A-bomb.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The B-29's service ceiling? I have it as under 32k, but what use is my pop-up look-em-up book anyway? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Voss 13th T.A.S.
-
Roger that Jig; I agree.. the A26 would fare even less well than the B26 Marauder in a defensive situation.. but the way I intend to fly it; it'll excell. I believe it's sea-level top speed was about 373 mph, and with that bodacious climb rate gettin to the target will be a mite more fun than haulin ashes in a Lancaster fer an hour. NOE penetration, grab to strike alt; unload on acks; come down again fer the party. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
FAST ATTACK! Used with close fighter support in a field assault/capture profile the damn thing will kick bellybutton and take many many names. Several of them workin together would probably be able to snake a fighter or two. I'm using the current B26 Marauder that way now; and do pretty well with it... and anything having to do with gettin stuff on the ground pounded flat the Invader will do better than a Marauder. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
-
A perk bomber is coming in 1.06, I'll give you that. Can the choice be deduced?
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
-
Oh; damn... clues??
-
Its either the b-29 or the a26. I dont think ANY other buffs are uber enuf to merit perking.
-
AR 240 any armed variant +)
AKskurj
-
As long as they have Rubber Band engines I'm all for um! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Thunder
-
BLITZ!!
BLITZ!!
BLITZ!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0008.jpg)
------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://www.luftjagerkorps.com/images/logo.gif)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-08-2001).]
-
Then I want a special neurtered version of the A-26. Weld the bays shut. Remove the turrents. Take away the menthol injection.
I'd love to learn it like the old AW Invader, but that took hundreds of deaths vs anything you can imagine to master the situation. I actually have that fear for all perk planes, if they aren't available on a ready basis, learning how engage with them is going to be a serious pain.
I suppose the A-20 would work up as a step up but I'd really really like to see at least ONE version available all the time or at least alot cheaper, then the "decked out" version...a prefered 8 gun strafer, with rocket rails only and the single upper turrent in this case, something along those lines, in the pure attack role.
It's kind of a bursted bubble for me that it's more then likely going to be perk only though. Intially I swore I would hold out of AH till the Invader arrived until the changes made to the hit shells in AW made it for the most part not worth the time anymore. And having it, but not on a regular basis, or capability to experiment with it like what is capable with the B-26 because of the perk system is going to be a serious shot in the arm till the A-20 finally comes.
But thats mostly just personal concern, yanno?
But still given the lack of defensive armament on the A-26, no matter how fast it is bombers are big and easy to hit if you can force a head-on, especially if they can't shoot back due to load status/manuverability.
Oh well, we shall see.
I'd be estatic just to have it. But if it's silver I am SOOOO gonna squeak about it. Unless it's unperked of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 01-09-2001).]
-
Perk bomber? How bout Ju-88S-1 schnellbomber? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
-
B29 it suits the terrain
would love too empty its load at high speed high alt.
should be a expensive bomber
S! chaps
-
Ar-234 and A-26 seem like the obvious choices. B-29 too I guess, and the Ju-288?
I don't think Ju 288 got ever into air? But I'm pretty sure it did not fly operational sorties. Ju 388 was build but it never flew any combat sorties.
I can understand Ar 234 should be perk because it was rare and it was very fast but why A-26? It was flown in thousands and it was not that spectacular plane. Yes it has huge armament pack and it was quite fast but still... If A-26 gets perks status, so should Mossie and it is not right.
As for german perk bombers, well, not many choices apart from Ar 234. Ju 188 saw lots of action and about 1000 was produced but it's bomb load and defensice armament were not that impressive. Ju 88S-1 would be quite effective for german bomber but not spectacular if you compare it to allied bombers.
How about perking a special Lancaster able to carry Grand slam's?
------------------
jochen Gefectsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
-
forget the bomber!
Two words.......
Nuclear Weapons! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
-
B-29!!
-
Yes Yes Yes...
Im with hang, bring in the a26, although i think the b29 is coming in next version.
How much should/will the b29 ar224 and a26 costs....anyone want to take a stab at future values?
O BTW, a26 is a late model aircraft, i think it was a 1945 model, although i might be dead wrong. Perk it, although make it relatively cheap. B29----20,000lbs of fun on this hummer, not to mention a 20mm hanging out its rear end. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ar224, is a jet and i dont know the specs on it, but from the looks of it, it seems its going to be fast yet not very durable.
Anyone want to take a quess on the Perk price on these machines?
LaVa
-
The powerplants consisted of a pair of Junkers Jumo 004B turbojets, with 900 kilograms (1,980 pounds) thrust each. Maximum speed without bombs or drop tanks was 740 KPH (460 MPH) at 6,100 meters (20,000 feet), but the speed dropped to as low as 660 KPH (410 MPH) with external loads. The prototypes had actually been a good 30 KPH faster than the Ar-234B, due to the more slender fuselage allowed by the lack of landing gear.
Tricycle landing gear was fitted. As the Ar-234 landed at high speed, it had a drag chute as standard equipment; it was one of the first aircraft to do so. The rounded nose of the aircraft was covered with plexiglas, giving the pilot an excellent view to the front, but no view to the back except through a periscope. The periscope, which was not provided in the Ar-234 prototypes, also served as a sight for dive-bombing attacks.
There was no ejector seat. The pilot got into and out of the aircraft through a transparent hatch on top of the cockpit. Getting out of the Ar-234 in an emergency was not a trivial task.
The Ar-234 handled very well at all speeds and was capable of all aerobatics. The worst operational problem was the unreliability of the Jumo 004B engines, which required overhaul or replacement after about ten hours of operation. The brakes also tended to wear out after about three landings and so had to often be replaced.
The fuel consumption of the Jumos varied widely with altitude. At 10,000 meters, it was a third of what it was at sea level. This meant that for low-altitude bombing missions, the operational radius of the aircraft was only about 190 kilometers (120 miles), while in high-altitude reconnaissance operations the range was as much as 720 kilometers (450 miles) with the drop tanks.
When operated as a bomber, the Ar-234 could be used in shallow dive attacks, low-level horizontal attacks, or high-altitude horizontal attacks. In shallow dive attacks, the pilot would drop from about 5,000 meters to under 1,500 meters, aiming the bombs through the periscopic sight that stuck up above the cockpit.
In low-level horizontal attack, used only when the target was obscured, the pilot simply flew level and dropped the bombs when it seemed appropriate. Results were not generally very impressive.
High-altitude horizontal attacks were particularly interesting. Since the Ar-234 was a single-seat aircraft, the pilot had to double as the bombardier, and did so with the help of a sophisticated Patin autopilot system. The pilot would fly to within about 30 kilometers of the target, engage the autopilot, swivel the control column out of his way to the right, and then lean over and sight the target through the Lotfe 7K bombsight.
The bombsight was linked to the autopilot. As long as the pilot held the target in the crosshairs, the autopilot would change the aircraft's heading accordingly, and then the bombsight would automatically drop the bombs at the right moment.
In principle, the Ar-234B had a pair of fixed rearward-firing 20-millimeter guns for protecting its tail, with the pilot sighting the guns through the periscope. Not only did the pilot have to be his own bombardier, he was his own tail gunner as well. However, in practice the guns were not always fitted and were never an important feature of the aircraft.
* The Luftwaffe conducted reconnaissance operations with the new Ar-234Bs through the fall, including some reconnaissance missions over England, beginning in October, to determine if the Allies were preparing a follow-up amphibious landing in the Netherlands. Despite the activity, it wasn't until 21 November 1944 that Allied pilots reported spotting an Ar-234B, when P-51s escorting bombers over Holland observed one of the jets overflying their formation. Detected, the German pilot immediately applied power and disappeared.
There's simply no other way...
B-29 would be just uber B-17 with more guns, speed and bombload. Ar 234 would be fun ride! Not able to finish HQ alone and no guns but lots of speed and maneuverability! It would be fun to avoid enemy fighters and drop your bombs where ever you want, then speed away while Mustang pilots curse their slow planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
jochen Gefectsverband Kuhlmey I/SG 5
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
-
The Invader first flew in '42 and started seeing limited service in mid '44 due to teething trouble..
I still think that any plane slower then most of the fighters is pretty much going to be dead meet.
Also, while it does have some monsterous armament options it rarely operated with them during WWII...which is why I'm hopping for 2 or 3 versions. I'm bought read to settle for the glass-nosed versions with either with either wing guns or wing pods.
but I will not argue over the 20-22 gun version with 14 rocket rails, 4000lbs internal + external racks for 1000lbs more should be perked. Even if it would be a wallowing pig (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
IIRC that was just a max ordinance option that was never used. Would still like purchaseable "uber" loads so the B-26 could carry torpedos, the Lanc gets it's heavies, and the B-17's become part of project Aphrodite (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
De Havilland Mosquito
Voss 13th T.A.S.
-
There is one thing about the B-29A, and really the B-17G and Lancaster MkIII, and that thing is:
We NEED longer runways to operate heavy bombers from.
I even think that the heavy bombers should only be selectable from fields with the new, long runways.
Please HTC, I'm tired of running my Lancaster over rough terrain for 1000ft before taking off. Please give us heavy bomber fields to operate from.
------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
-
B-35!!!! aka what Hitler wished Horton could have gotten going (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.ixpres.com/ag1caf/usplanes/photos/XB-35.jpg)
OR!
What Dornier and Arado could only dream of making (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.ixpres.com/ag1caf/usplanes/Photos/XB-42side.jpg)
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-09-2001).]
-
Given the low bombload and the (presumably) long way to get at "safe" alt and the potentially dangerous T/O and landings, I do not think Ar-234 should be perked.
IMHO, the only bomber that can affect game balance itself alone is the B-29. So my bet would be this to be the perk bomber.
Cheers,
Pepe
-
Your assuming anyone can get it off the ground and get it to climb to an operational alt in less then 12 hours (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
and we need speciall bases with really really long airstrips (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
and a recking crew to clear all the ones that didn't make it off the tarmac (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
-
When they include the A-20, they get a new member.
-
P61 Was declared a fighter because it was one. P61 does not have a bomb bay of any sort. I'd like to see it though in black of course
[This message has been edited by EDO43 (edited 01-09-2001).]
-
Naw the only plane that could truely affect the arena is the B-36 Peacemaker. It's gravitational pull would change the tides.
The sixteen 20mm cannon defense, 435mph speed, 6,800 mile range, 40,000ft service ceiling, and 200,000lb bomb load would surely put in the perk catagory.
Oh yeah, and two DC-3 sized thermonuclear weapons to boot.
Ahh the ol 1948 SAC planes, ain't they grand?
-
Yes the A26 is a very good perkbomber.
But please BRING IN ALSO THE SM.79bis SPARVIERO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Arado Blitz B, please, but also the C4 model - four engines so no need of RATO, belly gun in place of central bomb.
------------------
qts