Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: milnko on November 30, 2000, 03:54:00 PM

Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: milnko on November 30, 2000, 03:54:00 PM
F7f-3 Tigercat was probably the most powerful high performance twin-engined fighter of World War II.
 (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/CFS2F7f.jpg)
As the US Navy required a heavily armed twin-engined carrier fighter, Grumman completed the XF7F-1 prototype in 1941.
It took off for its maiden flight on November 3, 1943.

It was amazingly maneuverable for an aircraft with a loaded weight of nearly eleven tons,  
but the Navy felt that the XF7F-1 Tigercat was "too hot and too heavy" for carrier duty.

Powered by two 2,100 h.p. Pratt & Whitney R-2800-22W engines, the Tigercat was built in
single and two-seat versions.
Later modifications equipped some F7F-3Ps with cameras for photo reconnaissance and mapping.

The F7F-3P BuNo 80425 was restored for THE FIGHTER COLLECTION at Duxford by Steve Hinton´s  Fighter Rebuilders at Chino, California.

It returned to the air and flew to the UK in June 1996 where it had its first air display at The Flying Legends Airshow on July 13, 1996 at Duxford.

The Fighter Collections F7F-3P is the only airworthy Tigercat in Europe.
Worldwide only 12 are still flying.

SPECIFICATIONS
Length:   45' 4"   
Height: 16' 7"
Wingspan: 51' 6"
Wingarea: 455 Sq Ft
Empty Weight: 16270 lbs
Gross Weight: 25720 lbs
Powerplant: (2)Pratt & Whitney R-2800-22W
Horsepower: 2100(each)
Fuel: 375 gals
Armaments: four .50cal mg with 300 rpg and four 20mm cannon with 200 rpg

Performance
Range: 1000 miles
Cruise Speed: 192 kts (222 mph)
Max Speed: 378 kts (435 mph)at 20,600 ft
Climb: 4530 ft/min
Ceiling: 40700 ft

FLIGHT CHARACTERISTICS:

Everyone who flew the Tigercat remarked on its impressive rate of climb even at steep angles, where it easily moved out at 150 knots. It had so much power that designer Gordon Israel once recalled - when travelling in a Convair 240 twin-engined airliner equipped with the exact same engines - that flying the F7F, he was alone, while in the 240 he was accompanied by 45 others.

Internal fuel was carried in three tanks: 60 gallons forward in the nose, a reserve tank of 83 gallons aft of the pilot, and a main tank of 210 gallons behind it. When fuel was consumed as per manual: processing from main,  to nose and reserve tank, it was almost impossible to stall the aircraft, as the center of gravity moved forward with the expediture of gasoline.

But the Tigercat did have its vices.
As long as the engines were running, you hardly had to touch the trim tabs. With its large vertical tail out of the slipstream, directional stability was exemplary, but without power, the Tigercat dropped like a stone, descending at 3,500 ft. per minute, with no glide capability at all.

The F7F accelerated so quickly that it passed the critical takeoff, gear-up zone between
80 and 140 knots, in less than 10 seconds.  In a dive, particularly from high altitude,
it built up speed so rapidly at full power that it entered the lethal compressibility area within moments. Nevertheless, stall warnings were given well before the aircraft stopped flying, and a simple nose-down attitude served to recover quickly.

On the approach, with power, the F7F was rock-steady, even in heavy crosswind. The Tigercat normally required full nose-up trim on approach as the elevator was not very effective at an approach speed of  95 mph.  

At high speed the ailerons were heavy, but its power-boosted rudder could also lead to problems. Without it, the rudder responded lethargically at speed above 400 knots and was almost immovable, but its boost was so strong in that speed range, that sudden inputs or flagrant misuse could easily lead to structural failure, and did. Below 350 knots, the hydraulic power boost which provided 30 percent feedback was smooth and light. (Source: AIRPOWER Magazine, Sept. 1996, Vol.26 No.5)

------------------
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant"
-WW1 German ACE Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen

<< MILENKO >> (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
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Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: washedup on November 30, 2000, 07:21:00 PM
I used to love flying the Tiger in Aces Over The Pacific 1946! mission set.  Great plane and very well armed.  Bring it to AH please.  Good post Milenko.
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Nath-BDP on November 30, 2000, 07:24:00 PM
It never saw combat.
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: RAM on November 30, 2000, 07:28:00 PM
Sure, bring it.

Perked

<Evil Grin>
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Ozark on November 30, 2000, 07:29:00 PM
Are you REALLY, REALLY sure?
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: RAM on November 30, 2000, 07:33:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Ozark:
Are you REALLY, REALLY sure?

Perked?...

AFAIK a P47M or a P51H are quite worse enemies than this kite.

sure, perk it and put it here. But then again, I will ask for a Ta152C...as a perk plane  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Jigster on November 30, 2000, 07:36:00 PM
Internal fuel was carried in three tanks: 60 gallons forward in the nose, a reserve tank of 83 gallons aft of the pilot, and a main tank of 210 gallons behind it. When fuel was consumed as per manual: processing from main, to nose and reserve tank, it was almost impossible to stall the aircraft, as the center of gravity moved forward with the expediture of gasoline.

Dunno where this came from. When the F7F was low on gasoline it became rather tail heavy. It was pretty well known for "sitting on it's tail" when empty, and often had it's tail set on makeshift stands to keep the nose gear on the ground.

First noticed it myself when I saw "Boss Man" in that precarious position when they were stowing it one day. Asked about it and, well...

- Jig

Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Ozark on November 30, 2000, 07:51:00 PM
RAM,
No....not about perk (hehe...I want it!!)

In regards to that it had NEVER seen combat. Just so happens that a F7F Tigercat pilot works two hangars down from my office. He knows the history and flies it at COU every  "Salute to Veterans" Memorial Day Airshow.

Ozark

[This message has been edited by Ozark (edited 11-30-2000).]
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Maverick on November 30, 2000, 08:56:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
It never saw combat.

Neither did you but you are still alowed in the game.    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)

Mav  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: milnko on November 30, 2000, 09:24:00 PM
That screenshot is from MS CFS2, an add-on plane I dl'd as well as many others.

Speaking of other dl's (and P47's) check out the reply I made to Frenchy's thread
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/006561.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/006561.html)

I also dl'd some modern stuff like this:
 (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/StennisF14.jpg)  

------------------
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant"
-WW1 German ACE Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen

<< MILENKO >> (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
ACES HIGH ASSASSINS Website (http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm)
WB/AH ASSASSINS Website (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Pyro on December 01, 2000, 12:01:00 AM
They have a nice one down in Pensacola at the National Naval Aviaiton Museum.  That is what I call a business end.

------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: gatt on December 01, 2000, 12:50:00 AM
NO.
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: StSanta on December 01, 2000, 02:17:00 AM
That's what the perk system'll do I tell ya.

Away from simulated realism into wonderland.

Sorry HTC, but I'm not a fan of this idea, even though I love yer sim.

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Damned CM on December 02, 2000, 06:19:00 AM
Whow..where did you get the CV and the F-14 for MS-CFS2?
Just asking becasue I am thinking of making a 'The Final Countdown' mission one day  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).

------------------
(http://members.aol.com/damnedcm/dmdcm.gif)
Damned CM
Damned if we do..No Fun if we don't!!
 www.damned.org (http://www.damned.org)
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: milnko on December 02, 2000, 07:00:00 AM
This is way off-topic post and Pyro is more than kind to allow pics of competition, so this is my last post on this thread.

I got the carrier at  http://cfs2.dogfighter.com/ (http://cfs2.dogfighter.com/)  and the F-14D at  http://www.gatwick.simplenet.com/fs2000 (http://www.gatwick.simplenet.com/fs2000)  while there check out the killer SU-27B they have
 (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/CFS2SU27.jpg)
 (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/CFS2SU27a.jpg)

The F7f I dl'd from  http://www.ffs98.com/index2.html (http://www.ffs98.com/index2.html)
Look here for some more screenshots  http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/temppic.html (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/temppic.html)

------------------
"Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant"
-WW1 German ACE Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen

<< MILENKO >> (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
ACES HIGH ASSASSINS Website (http://www.cybrtyme.com/personal/hblair/mainpage.htm)
WB/AH ASSASSINS Website (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 02, 2000, 04:31:00 PM
Hi

The Japanese developed the Ki-83 a remarkably simmilar plane at the same time as the Tigercat. Their top speeds were just about identical 435 vs 438mph in favor of Ki-83, and armament of 2 20mm and 2 30mm cannon. By all accounts it was an exceptionaly good design with great manuverability and turning. And lets not forget the DH Hornet, another great late 1945 twin which is probably a better performer than either of these, top speed 460mph?

thanks GRUNHERZ
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: SKurj on December 02, 2000, 04:50:00 PM
HORNET! HORNET!

Was also a carrier version too!!


AKSKurj
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on December 02, 2000, 07:24:00 PM
Thx for those pictures of P47s Milenko, appreciated  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on December 02, 2000, 07:27:00 PM
Thx for those pictures of P47s Milenko, appreciated  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Nashwan on December 03, 2000, 05:01:00 AM
De Havilland Hornet
 (http://avia.russian.ee/pictures/england/havilland_hornet_1.jpg)

 (http://avia.russian.ee/pictures/england/havilland_hornet_2.jpg)

Power plant Two Rolls-Royce Merlin 130/131 inline piston engines
Thrust 2,070 HP 1,544 kW  
Wingspan 45 ft 13.72 m  
Length 36.7 ft 11.18 m  
Height 14.2 ft 4.32 m  
Wingarea 361 sq ft 33.54 sq m
Weight empty 12,880 lb 5,842 kg  
max. 20,900 lb 9,480 kg
Speed 472 mph 759 km/h  
Ceiling 35,000 ft 10,670 m  
Range 2,503 mi 4,028 km
Armament 4x 20 mm cannon, 907 kg bomb
Crew One  
First flight 28.7.1944  
Number built 215

Jirka Wagner

Any chamce of something like this being considered as a perk plane, instead of the Spit XIV and Tempest? It seems even RAF perk planes have to be a year older than other nations.
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Damned CM on December 03, 2000, 05:10:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by milnko:
This is way off-topic post and Pyro is more than kind to allow pics of competition, so this is my last post on this thread.

I got the carrier at  http://cfs2.dogfighter.com/ (http://cfs2.dogfighter.com/)  and the F-14D at  http://www.gatwick.simplenet.com/fs2000 (http://www.gatwick.simplenet.com/fs2000)  

Thanks a lot milnko for the links, and sorry Pyro for asking for the add-ons  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).


DmdCM
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Damned CM on December 03, 2000, 05:11:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by milnko:
This is way off-topic post and Pyro is more than kind to allow pics of competition, so this is my last post on this thread.

I got the carrier at  http://cfs2.dogfighter.com/ (http://cfs2.dogfighter.com/)  and the F-14D at  http://www.gatwick.simplenet.com/fs2000 (http://www.gatwick.simplenet.com/fs2000)  

Thanks a lot milnko for the links, and sorry Pyro for asking for the add-ons  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif).


DmdCM
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: Damned CM on December 03, 2000, 05:13:00 AM
upps sorry...ahd problems with my browser and posted this three times now :-/.

DmdCM

[This message has been edited by Damned CM (edited 12-03-2000).]
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: airspro on December 03, 2000, 07:33:00 AM
Final Countdown ?
 http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum62/HTML/000393.html (http://www.combatsim.com/ubb/Forum62/HTML/000393.html)
Title: Mommy, err Pyro...may I have....
Post by: airspro on December 03, 2000, 07:36:00 AM
.

[This message has been edited by airspro (edited 12-03-2000).]