Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: jaxxo on September 15, 2004, 09:41:23 AM
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An excerpt from 10 minutes of gameplay in ma...."spawn...bang! Well that didnt work...uhhhhhhhhh spawn ne...bang bang! tower still looks the same.....oh well ill try a plane...man those guys were at 8k a second ago. .......Yeah i see them, thanks for the check six....man hoed takin off the runway from 190..well at least the ack got him. "------I did manage to get in the air and kill 4 gangers in my zeke, but rest assured they came back with more reinforcements to stop that nonsense. Gameplay stinkin up the ma. Think Ill go see how many times it takes me spawnin to kill those campers. coffee has me ranting..where's the decaff?....Wow 10 kills in an la5! who landed those? He must be a heck of a shot.
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i wonder if this is about vulcing
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MA gameplay needs some thinking about.
presently it sucks
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Spose you can throw this one in as well -
3 Tiffs (ours) come across 2x51s and 1 190 heading towards our base at 19k.
Eventually they turn to attack (we assumed), after around 30 sec of an attempted engagement they hit the deck and run for home.
Been 'surprised' at the amount of people currently avoiding fights inbound to a field to go right down the runway for a vultch. Then it's over the top down the runway again, rinse and repeat until they either get nailed or manage to run away on the deck.
Mechanic - True, but in reality only we (the community) can change it.
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Been 'surprised' at the amount of people currently avoiding fights inbound to a field to go right down the runway for a vultch. Then it's over the top down the runway again, rinse and repeat until they either get nailed or manage to run away on the deck.
Not surprizing to me ... we had a whole thread devoted to this behaviour.
Some actually believe that this is an acceptable attack, and it appears that it is getting popular ... sounds like a lot of fun to me ... NOT !!!
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I have 1 set oppinion on vulching...
Only do it if your trying to goon a feild and you need to protect the goons.
Otherwize your just cheating your self, And youl end up being realy bad at one on one's
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Agreed Slapshot.
Actually sat in field ack and got 9 kills as the opposing team was too interested in just vulching.
You would think after 1 or 2 someone would take the manned ack out, but no.
Is it just me or has this only really started happening on a large scale since AH2?
Personally I will only vultch once all the airborne cons have been despatched. Starting with LALAs.
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What kind/type of "gameplay" would be more "fun" or less disapointing?
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What kind/type of "gameplay" would be more "fun" or less disapointing?
One where people actually enagaged and fought each other. One where air combat was actually the goal.:aok
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Ok, but that's not the goal of the war {as I was told} The goal is to get the reset and win, no one said you have to dogfight in order to take a base or get the reset.
Just playing devils advocate here, not saying these are not valid points or you or anyone else doesn't deserve a good dogfight.
First, one side has too many numbers/players, second, we have this ENY thing, third, a lot where complaining about the MA just being "furball" central with no goals or strategic significance?
Just trying to understand, and no I don't have the magic solution for the perfect MA balance of fun. Hoping others will provide insight into what is "fun" gameplay or is everyone not reading from the same book.
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Dunno MOIL,
I think a lot more people are now playing for score/rank and forgetting to have fun.
Can't put my finger on it but AH2 is certainly way different in gameplay than AH1.
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Originally posted by mars01
One where people actually enagaged and fought each other. One where air combat was actually the goal.:aok
:aok
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New guys go immediately into Bore N Zoom, its the only fight they know. More new guys need to get taught how to fight at a disadvantage and so wont be afraid to fight. Rather than panic when they lose their 5k alt adv.
I cant understand their thinking, personally i find fighting and winning at a disadvantage far more fun and satisfying than bore n zoom/cherrypicking.
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Its disappointing to see some of the gameplay in AH, I'm not talking about the attitudes either, thats another discussion entirely.
With the exception of the 'one pass, haul a**' horde monkeys, I've only had a couple memorable fights this past week with a 2 or 1v1. The skill level seems to have definitely diminished a bit, I suck in AH, but these guys are making me look better.
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Originally posted by Furball
New guys go immediately into Bore N Zoom, its the only fight they know. More new guys need to get taught how to fight at a disadvantage and so wont be afraid to fight. Rather than panic when they lose their 5k alt adv.
I cant understand their thinking, personally i find fighting and winning at a disadvantage far more fun and satisfying than bore n zoom/cherrypicking.
Yep. Flying at a disadvantage - that's the way I usually fly. Just check my scores.
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1. You know when a base is being hoarded.
2. If you are part of a squad, your next mission can be an alt-monkey fighter sweep to the hoarded base.
3. Regroup, rinse, repeat. Ask others to join along.
4. At the least it would devolve into a big arse furball.
I have always wondered if the Rooks on RJO night assign squads to fighter sweep and squads to base hoarding. Missions on the Knights side often are single focus. Smash and grab. Everyone Jabo. I wonder if adding a support mission with fighter sweep only can be effective. Or launch fighter sweep response missions to base hoarding?????
How does one get the buy in of others to perform the above? Gawdd I'm sounding like a strat dweeb. Always wonder why FBDred never negotiates another squad into a joint operation as high cap or smash and pork the nearest enemy bases.
Sorry guess I'm Whineing<-----------Have slapped myself now feel better.:)
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Dunno MOIL,
I think a lot more people are now playing for score/rank and forgetting to have fun.
Can't put my finger on it but AH2 is certainly way different in gameplay than AH1.
Ya know what I think would be a hoot or at least a neat test.
Open up AH1 MA {like the old days} with no scoring/ranking system in place. Meaning, there's no "perks" "ranks" "points" or any of that stuff. Just planes, GV's, CV's and bases.
Object, win the war! Not buy better stuff, "you killed me so I'll be back with plane XX to bomb you back to the stone age" mentality
Fly what ya wan't, drive what ya want, if you get a kill, then you get a kill.....nothing more. Not a handfull of brownie points {perks} so ya can go buy some uber plane to destroy the enemy.
Look at it like this:
Everyone has all the same goodies, a group want's to up a flight of Temp's and Spit14's, well go ahead, but be prepared to be met with a group of {insert uber plane here} coming to enggage you!
In the classic dual ya didn't hand one guy a sub machine gun and the other a single shot pistol?
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I still don't get it. I am always able to find a fight. I will try to get a couple out of the hord for a 1 on 1 or 2 or 3 or what ever. If there is no horde, I will up from a field thats under attack. If it is capped, I will go from a dif field to help. Maybe escort bombers some times. What kind of fights are we looking for here? 1 on 1 with a little alt advatage and the other guy on the plane of our choice, and his buddies waiting till the fight is over before they join in? That is not going to happen in the MA ever.
Here is what I see so far:
A few will run cause they are afraid they will mess up their score.
A few will run cause they are on a mission. You may not approve of that but who is asking anyway?
MOST will stay and fight although they may not be in the plane of your choise or the correct alt.
The guy with the advantage gets acused of alt monkeying and timid flying.
The guy that does not help his country man gets acused of letting him die so he would not lose his alt or what ever.
If he does join the fight, he gets accused of gang bangin
A squad or two trying to take a base is a hoard
The guy that gets vulched repeatedly is not really an idiot. Its my fault. I should let him up and kill the goon :confused:
Half of the people complaining about this stuff will be the first ones to run or atempt the HO at the first pass
These are just my objervations, I could be wrong. Just play the game, it is what it is.
PS. HT could you please make a change to the game to that I can up from a caped field and kill the goon with out being vulched? Vulching is not right and I should not have to up from a different field. I may not get there on time. Or maybe limit the players to 1 vulch every 5 minutes unless on a big field. Then it should be 3. Unless ofcorse the ENY thing is on. Then the number should be 0.
Where are those pills now. They were just here on the table. hmmm
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I guess I'm in the minority at this point, but so far on this latest pass through AH2 I'm having a blast.
I've certainly grumbled in the past about this or that, regardless of the game, AW or here, but I'm doing my best to look for what I want from the game and not worrying about what the other guy wants.
That being said, when I've flown I've had some good fights where it hasn't been a mob v 1 kind of deal. I've had numerous flights where guys I don't know from anyone have either 'check 6'd" for me or dove in to help in the fight, and I've done the same.
Last week I rolled in to help a guy who was trailing fuel and was being run down by a couple of Tiffies a Niki and a P51. After I got the first Tiffie off him, he could have run for home and left me hanging. Instead he rolled back in and we took care of 3 of the 4 guys that had jumped him. He ended up ditching for lack of fuel.
That kind of stuff has happened a lot for me since I jumped back in. I must be hitting it at the right time of night or something, but I'm having a blast.
I know that for me, back in AW and in here, that as soon as I start worrying about the overall picture and what's 'wrong' with the game, I start losing that fun. So I'm doing my darndest to focus on what's fun for me and forgetting about the rest.
Dan/Slack
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Hey Moil just curious, have you played AH2 since this post?
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124228 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124228)
I didn't see any scores for you since July. Did you change your handle?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
3 Tiffs (ours) come across 2x51s and 1 190 heading towards our base at 19k.
Eventually they turn to attack (we assumed), after around 30 sec of an attempted engagement they hit the deck and run for home.
LOL. Yeah, been seeing this kinda thing happen a lot. So the other day I saw a 51b, and he starts running. I decide to follow him (in a G10). Can't catch him but I figure his wep is gonna run out eventually. I think we ended up running 2 full sectors, straight on the deck. Finally I guess his wep ran out because he broke. Funny thing is he was pretty good. We kept scissoring until I ran outta gas. Only got a few pings on him, and he managed to ping me too. I found myself wondering "why didn't this guy fight in the beginning, he woulda prolly kicked my ass?"
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I must be hitting it at the right time of night or something, but I'm having a blast.
Dan/Slack
No, its probably because you and the 51 did not worry about what the other guys were flying, how many were there, and how high they were. You saw a fight and jumped in. And the 'running 51 dweeb' turned out that was not a runner after all - as I am sure the text buffer would have been saing - , but a guy that loved to fight. He was just looking for a chance to reverse
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A prime example of what is being talked about happened to me just 2 nights ago. I was in a Hurri at 15k headed to an Rook base when a P-38 and a P-51D start making passes on me, they would each make a pass trying for a Head On shot then run out of icon range. After about 4 passes from each of them I had enough and dove out to fight someone else.
Interesting to note both of them were from the same squad. I had turned the film on and checked it later to see who those guys were. Neither one of them wanted to fight, they just wanted to joust. Between the 2 of them they could have BnZ'd me to death.
Another expample happened last night at A10. I was in a P-38 at about 18k and there was a N1k2 at roughly 21/22k. Instead of fighting me he dove out to cherry pick a Knight that already had 3 planes on him. Why did he dive away from me? He had the advantage and probably could have killed me. Instead he chose to cherry pick someone else. *shrug
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Launching from a field under close attack is suicide. If vulchers are about, launch from somewhere else.
To the defender, it will look like a horde is attacking. To the attackers, it looks like a well planned mission.
Hap Arnold said it best in his lessons learned. It is better to be on the offense. Remember, the best defense is a good offense.
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Originally posted by Elfie
A prime example of what is being talked about happened to me just 2 nights ago. I was in a Hurri at 15k headed to an Rook base when a P-38 and a P-51D start making passes on me, they would each make a pass trying for a Head On shot then run out of icon range. After about 4 passes from each of them I had enough and dove out to fight someone else.
Interesting to note both of them were from the same squad. I had turned the film on and checked it later to see who those guys were. Neither one of them wanted to fight, they just wanted to joust. Between the 2 of them they could have BnZ'd me to death.
Another expample happened last night at A10. I was in a P-38 at about 18k and there was a N1k2 at roughly 21/22k. Instead of fighting me he dove out to cherry pick a Knight that already had 3 planes on him. Why did he dive away from me? He had the advantage and probably could have killed me. Instead he chose to cherry pick someone else. *shrug
Slow day at work, can you tell? You did not really expect them to turn fight a Hurri did you? Those things need to be perked :D
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He was just looking for a chance to reverse
Two sectors later ? ... geeesh !!!
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I swear you blokes are the biggest bunch of sooks, ive yet to encounter in any Flight "sim".
Your arcadey flying attitudes dont suit my game play at all but you dont see me starting threads having a cry about it.
1. You want an arena where you can see the enemy coming.
2. You want an arena where you can fly "ALL" the planes including the enemies in case you "miss out" on anything.
3. You want tracers so you can see your bullets in the air and change your AoA accordingly.
4. You want your parachutists to remain parachutists and blossom into ditched pilots without the added stress of possessing bullet ridden bodies under shredded chutes.
5. You like your enemy in front of your gunsight and to stay there without them flying back to their friends or to the protective umbrella of their fields.
6 Any now like before, you want your enemy to fly "YOUR" way as their way is disturbing, naughty and down right unsportsmanlike.
Not only do I choose to pay for this game to put up with HTC's ENY thing but I also choose to play it in the ever present knowledge that EVERY single day, I have to read or hear about some group of cry babies who've suffered the INDIGNITY ! of being vulched!
I truly have to wonder, just how many of you furballing Nancy boys are any good at all.
Stop your whining, put your prettythang's back in the seat of your aircraft and watch over your shoulders as you take off. Some of us are flying as if it were a Sim. We keep our Nintendo's in another room.
(Please insert the appropriate number of "smileys" in order to be in contention for the "Gold Medal" Flaming response award.)
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Not only do I choose to pay for this game to put up with HTC's ENY thing but I also choose to play it in the ever present knowledge that EVERY single day, I have to read or hear about some group of cry babies who've suffered the INDIGNITY ! of being vulched!
I truly have to wonder, just how many of you furballing Nancy boys are any good at all.
Stop your whining, put your prettythang's back in the seat of your aircraft and watch over your shoulders as you take off. Some of us are flying as if it were a Sim. We keep our Nintendo's in another room.
Originally posted by Elfie
A prime example of what is being talked about happened to me just 2 nights ago. I was in a Hurri at 15k headed to an Rook base when a P-38 and a P-51D start making passes on me, they would each make a pass trying for a Head On shot then run out of icon range. After about 4 passes from each of them I had enough and dove out to fight someone else.
Interesting to note both of them were from the same squad. I had turned the film on and checked it later to see who those guys were. Neither one of them wanted to fight, they just wanted to joust. Between the 2 of them they could have BnZ'd me to death.
:rofl At least we now know who one of the two guys Elfie was talkin about is. :lol :rofl
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Originally posted by dedalos
Slow day at work, can you tell? You did not really expect them to turn fight a Hurri did you? Those things need to be perked :D
If you go back and actually read everything that I posted you will see that I said *between the two of them they could have BnZ'd me to death*. So no...I dont expect them to turn fight a Hurri :cool:
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Dunno MOIL,
I think a lot more people are now playing for score/rank and forgetting to have fun.
Can't put my finger on it but AH2 is certainly way different in gameplay than AH1.
Off beat reply,...
Game play hasn't changed from AH1 to AH2, most people just expected it to and it didn't.
Maybe they should remove perk points from anything but Air to Air or Ground to Air combat kills. Too much is based on perks/points.
If you die before landing, all points should be taken away, since you're a little too dead to collect them. You should have to be able to collect your medals. ;-)
In my own wicked personal opinion, *I* think the combination of these two things will have a positive effect in redjusting the game from a "game" to more like a "Simulator". As long as it's gamey the gamers will break it. As we read recently, and I believe in, there IS a difference between a Gamer and Simmer.
Make separtate versions/arenas, one for the circus geek gamer and one for the true aviation/wwii Simmer.
I * think * this is maybe where the game is heading when it comes full circle to being done, but I may be wrong.
I think in AW, the effect of having two different version arenas had somewhat of this effect, having a Full Realism arena, and a Relaxed Realism arena.
Granted, every action has a reaction in Real Life and in creating a biosphere/community. I would predict, the gamer side of it would probably out weigh the simmer side of it in population. This is where a community would break off and be more accurately governed from within themselves. Reaching for goals that are more suited to that chosen prefrence.
Another draw back would be the flames between what will inhereit the name "Eletist" -vs- "RR Dweeb". Thoughts we know are wrong but will probably happen anyways. But they will fight over what's more important for HTC to work on or change. Separation will also help this. But separation itself is not healthy for the community as a whole. Intelligent balance is needed here. It's very easy to kill a biosphere, but rather hard and time consuming to start one into prepetual life.
3 cents
Anim
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Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
I truly have to wonder, just how many of you furballing Nancy boys are any good at all.
Altho I don't consider myself a "nancy boy" I have been know to furball on occasion.
Since I'm low man on the totempole (not very good) I'd be happy to fly a couple in the DA with you spook. What's your ingame ID? If you can't beat me then you're way outclassed by the others.
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LOL Jaxxo, sorry it was rather lame for my B26 to run your zero down and get you off the 6 of a team mate. was fun though.
afterwards went after a nik. he evaded came in behind me, so I jumped in rear gun plastered him, while another team mate got his 6 and shot him down.
lame, yes, but rather fun.
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Originally posted by dedalos
I still don't get it. I am always able to find a fight. I will try to get a couple out of the hord for a 1 on 1 or 2 or 3 or what ever. If there is no horde, I will up from a field thats under attack. If it is capped, I will go from a dif field to help. Maybe escort bombers some times. What kind of fights are we looking for here? 1 on 1 with a little alt advatage and the other guy on the plane of our choice, and his buddies waiting till the fight is over before they join in? That is not going to happen in the MA ever.
Here is what I see so far:
A few will run cause they are afraid they will mess up their score.
A few will run cause they are on a mission. You may not approve of that but who is asking anyway?
MOST will stay and fight although they may not be in the plane of your choise or the correct alt.
The guy with the advantage gets acused of alt monkeying and timid flying.
The guy that does not help his country man gets acused of letting him die so he would not lose his alt or what ever.
If he does join the fight, he gets accused of gang bangin
A squad or two trying to take a base is a hoard
The guy that gets vulched repeatedly is not really an idiot. Its my fault. I should let him up and kill the goon :confused:
Half of the people complaining about this stuff will be the first ones to run or atempt the HO at the first pass
These are just my objervations, I could be wrong. Just play the game, it is what it is.
PS. HT could you please make a change to the game to that I can up from a caped field and kill the goon with out being vulched? Vulching is not right and I should not have to up from a different field. I may not get there on time. Or maybe limit the players to 1 vulch every 5 minutes unless on a big field. Then it should be 3. Unless ofcorse the ENY thing is on. Then the number should be 0.
Where are those pills now. They were just here on the table. hmmm
Yup, very insightfull. The fact is everyone wants people to fight how 'they' want. There are very rarely co-alt, co-e, co-plane-type engagements. Even more rare are engagements of that description that do not have other annoying variables, such as other planes participating before the original fight is concluded. The MA isn't really a place where you should expect any type of engagement much less a 1 vs 1 situation. The main attraction to the MA and the reason why 99% of subscribers, even the ones that complain about it, fly there is exactly because of the unpredictable and dynamic nature of engagements, the sheer variety is fun in and of itself.
That being said, I have noticed a general decline in the average skill level of my enemy. This has been the case ever since HT put those commercials on Discovery Wings. Prior to those commercials the vast majority of players, while possibly new to AH, generally had a strong background in flight sims. Since those commercials there has been a rather large influx of players with little or no flight sim experience whatsoever. Do you old vets remember how you were when you first started AW or WBs X number of years ago? Well, that is where they are at now and they make up a good chunk of our player base. Rest assured though, they will slowly evolve, as you did, going through the natural phases of development into the uber-aces of tomorrow.
Zazen
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Originally posted by DipStick
Hey Moil just curious, have you played AH2 since this post?
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124228 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124228)
I didn't see any scores for you since July. Did you change your handle?
I pop in from time to time, can you guess the handle?
But the arena and community is not the arena that we all came to love.
Might just be me tho
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as stated before speed is the dominating fact in dogifght now, so the AH2 MA is forever changed. Much Less Furballs and more 1vs1's.
It only sucks for furballers, who have a hard time finding them because turning is not really a factor anymore.
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Originally posted by mechanic
MA gameplay needs some thinking about.
presently it sucks
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Originally posted by FT_Animal
In my own wicked personal opinion, *I* think the combination of these two things will have a positive effect in redjusting the game from a "game" to more like a "Simulator". As long as it's gamey the gamers will break it. As we read recently, and I believe in, there IS a difference between a Gamer and Simmer.
Make separtate versions/arenas, one for the circus geek gamer and one for the true aviation/wwii Simmer.
How would you classify someone who cares about the accuracy of flight/damage models, doesn't care about the wargame, and just wants to fight? Gamer or simmer?
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
It only sucks for furballers, who have a hard time finding them because turning is not really a factor anymore.
Well...I am a furballer. Doesn't suck for me. I prefer AH2 actually.
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Just another quick note, as you can see from the posts it seems to be the same song & dance as I have stated. If numbers {rank,score,perks,points & medals} are a factor then the gameplay tends to lean that way.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Been 'surprised' at the amount of people currently avoiding fights inbound to a field to go right down the runway for a vultch. Then it's over the top down the runway again, rinse and repeat until they either get nailed or manage to run away on the deck.
A couple of weeks ago I was flying CAP at 12,000ft over our base that was under attack. In the distance I saw a couple of P-51s coming in at 10,000ft and at 7,000ft. Once I got within icon range of both planes, they both dove to the deck through our acks (none of them were down) just to vulch the couple of Knights that were taking off. One of the P-51's died from puffy ack but the other one was able to make to the deck for his vulch run with me hot on his tail pinging him up and finally getting him as he tried to pull up for another vulch pass (he didn't get any his first pass, was going too fast). Was somewhat surprised to see it was a veteran player with many years under his belt but then considering who it was, it wasn't really that surprising after all. Oh, and he was a Rook.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by la7'sRule
I have 1 set oppinion on vulching...
Only do it if your trying to goon a feild and you need to protect the goons.
Otherwize your just cheating your self, And youl end up being realy bad at one on one's
Well, if you up from a base that is under attack then you shouldn't be surprised if you get vulched. And to say that vulching degrades your flying skills is silly. Vulching is one of the last true art forms.
ack-ack
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I think the game would just be more fun if people would throw together a thoughtful mission once in awhile.
When I first started playing, I thought the jabo mission, every plane loaded up 100% ordinance was fun, but now it seems like these are the only missions.
Some alternative suggestions that I feel the MA does not see enough of:
1. High altitude bombing raids escorted by clean fighters. Man, what I wouldn't give to be in a clean P-47 in a mission for once as oppossed to being weighted down by every bit of ordinance someone can throw on me!
2. Fighter sweeps: Why is it that you can get 30 people together for a jabo mission to some undefended base but you can rarely get more than four people to wing up for a mission to sweep an area of fighters/bombers?
3. Combined operations: Ok, so maybe the Stuka is not the best plane for the MA, but Stuka/Panzer missions really are a lot of fun! I've only seen one done in three months, but a Stuka, or Il2, group, supporting some panzers, while being escorted by CLEAN fighters would be a lot of fun!
Also, why should it be that any of these missions have to go after a specific base? The third example would be a ton of fun just in the open somewhere like on furball island!
And if these missions must go after a base, why not go after a high-altitude one that will probably only be cracked with a well-thought mission in the first place?
Anyway, I think this would really make the MA more fun... Imagine, if you will, a massive B-17 mission at 20k or so, escorted by P-51 and P-47 fighters, met by a large interceptor mission flying whatever. THAT would be fun for a change.
Heck, maybe a few big Knight squads should talk to a few big Rook or Bish squads, and have their squadnights on at the same time, and go for the same objectives. Sure, you might have an idea what the other side's up to, but wouldn't that meeting engagement be fun for a change? I mean, just for a change?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
are now playing for score/rank and forgetting to have fun.
Can't put my finger on it but AH2 is certainly way different in gameplay than AH1.
I don't think the game play has changed at all from AH1 to AH2 other than the flight model and gunnery adjustments. The same things people do now were done in AH1 with the same frequency.
I do think however that we saw a dramatic increase on those that play for score/rank when HT offered money for the Top 15 contest and it really hasn't decreased since.
ack-ack
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"LOL. Yeah, been seeing this kinda thing happen a lot. So the other day I saw a 51b, and he starts running. I decide to follow him (in a G10). Can't catch him but I figure his wep is gonna run out eventually. I think we ended up running 2 full sectors, straight on the deck. Finally I guess his wep ran out because he broke. Funny thing is he was pretty good. We kept scissoring until I ran outta gas. Only got a few pings on him, and he managed to ping me too. I found myself wondering "why didn't this guy fight in the beginning, he woulda prolly kicked my ass?"
Wow irony ..i get it lol. That was me in the pony. I had 186 rounds of .50 cal left ( or nothing basically) and 5 kills on board. PLus i seriously misjudged your 109 uber e. So i extended with u catching me..me scissoring you, and you dying despite my pathetic ammo load. I even said over ch200 many times I had no ammo, but you figured i was a running sissy and had an easy kill. Thought we were cool though, I cant figure why u would post this. anyway was a good fight.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
Wow irony ..i get it lol. That was me in the pony. I had 186 rounds of .50 cal left ( or nothing basically) and 5 kills on board. PLus i seriously misjudged your 109 uber e. So i extended with u catching me..me scissoring you, and you dying despite my pathetic ammo load. I even said over ch200 many times I had no ammo, but you figured i was a running sissy and had an easy kill. Thought we were cool though, I cant figure why u would post this. anyway was a good fight.
Jaxxo...I wasn't talking about you. Obviously I wouldn't do that, given that I think you're a good guy. This was another fight, and the circumstances were not the same.
Oh, and BTW...no I don't tune 200. And they guy in my post was just entering the fight from his base, so I doubt he was out of ammo. ;)
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Originally posted by B17Skull12
as stated before speed is the dominating fact in dogifght now, so the AH2 MA is forever changed. Much Less Furballs and more 1vs1's.
It only sucks for furballers, who have a hard time finding them because turning is not really a factor anymore.
Skill is and always be the dominating factor in a dogfight. One day you will realize that but I feel you're going to be in for a long wait.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by MOIL
Just trying to understand, and no I don't have the magic solution for the perfect MA balance of fun. Hoping others will provide insight into what is "fun" gameplay or is everyone not reading from the same book.
LOL Nobody is reading from the same book.
"Fun" Gameplay is whatever is fun for you.
And this could be any one of a bunch of different things.
For me its whatever Im in the mood for at a given time.
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oops
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Originally posted by 2Slow
Hap Arnold said it best in his lessons learned. It is better to be on the offense. Remember, the best defense is a good offense.
Very true. Particularly here.
Now if we could just get everyone else to grasp that LOL
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As long as sides are more or less in the same ball park as to numbers I am pretty happy. I think I see a lot more turn fighting, I especially get killed by the scissors move a lot more in AH2 (something I know I need a lot of work on). In this regard I think the gameplay has improved.
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Originally posted by dedalos
These are just my objervations, I could be wrong. Just play the game, it is what it is.
BULLSEYE! Right on the mark
Give that man a Cigar...or a doobie. whichever he prefers :aok
BTW anyone that ups from a base under attack and gets vulched more then once is a sucker.
Anyone who keeps upping from a base and keeps getting vulched over and over and over is an idiot.:)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
He was just looking for a chance to reverse
Two sectors later ? ... geeesh !!!
What am I missing here? Where does it say 2 sectors? Where you the one chasing that 51? If we are talking about the same example, the guy was running injured from 4 cons. I think instead of giving one of the chacers the easy kill, he was looking for a chance to turn and at list fight before he dies.
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Originally posted by phookat
LOL. Yeah, been seeing this kinda thing happen a lot. So the other day I saw a 51b, and he starts running. I decide to follow him (in a G10). Can't catch him but I figure his wep is gonna run out eventually. I think we ended up running 2 full sectors, straight on the deck. Finally I guess his wep ran out because he broke. Funny thing is he was pretty good. We kept scissoring until I ran outta gas. Only got a few pings on him, and he managed to ping me too. I found myself wondering "why didn't this guy fight in the beginning, he woulda prolly kicked my ass?"
Sounds like me, except that I didn't fly the last few days. A G-10 should have the edge on the deck against a P-51b, it can drag the E right out it. If I want to land a few kills and I don't want to fight I run, easy as that. He prolly expected you to give up when you got low on fuel. Still you got a nice fight out of it.
The last time I upped a G-10 by the way I ran into you in a G-10. That was a GOOD fight, best I had in a while. Had to play all the tricks and push all the buttons on that. Pinged you with mg's but had to break when a P-51 newbie crashed the party. Still got the kill, dunno what happened to you, but anyway.
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SlapShot, I think you are talking about a different post. My comment was not about the 51 vs 109 example. :confused:
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I like to drop and run when some 1 tries to get me head on.. But nly till there like 2k behind Then you can turn and get em works a treat with ppl who dont have any sence.
but i dont understand why people would keep on runing after you get 2.5k Max distance between you and the hostile.
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Originally posted by dedalos
SlapShot, I think you are talking about a different post. My comment was not about the 51 vs 109 example. :confused:
Ahhh ... understood ... I thought that you were referring to phookats post where he chase the guy 2 sectors before deciding to reverse.
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Originally posted by la7'sRule
I like to drop and run when some 1 tries to get me head on.. But nly till there like 2k behind Then you can turn and get em works a treat with ppl who dont have any sence.
but i dont understand why people would keep on runing after you get 2.5k Max distance between you and the hostile.
Why would you drop and run ?
%99.9 of the time, after avoiding the HO, I will reverse the con immediately and if they decide to blow thru I am on their 6.
If they don't decide to blow thru, they are usually dead within another turn.
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Originally posted by Furball
New guys go immediately into Bore N Zoom, its the only fight they know. More new guys need to get taught how to fight at a disadvantage and so wont be afraid to fight. Rather than panic when they lose their 5k alt adv.
I cant understand their thinking, personally i find fighting and winning at a disadvantage far more fun and satisfying than bore n zoom/cherrypicking.
Ummmm please dont freekin mix all of us into one bag.
I still consider my self new to the game 3-4 weeks of game play and I dont BnZ. First of all Boooore N Zzzzzz is not only booring to fight against but its the most booring tactic to fly as well.
Also it doesnt help me become a better pilot. It doesnt help me to learn to fly the plane Im learning. Im still learning my first plane but I will sequencially learn more and more planes. If a plane is a BnZ plane I will do BnZ in it BUT NOT exclusivly. I will learn it so that I can fly much less predictable and squzee every single drop of manouvering out of it.
But most likely the BnZ planes will be the last ones I step into.
Currently in my Yak I do Zoom out of the battle when comming in from high alt. But its not because Im BnZing but rather because Ive due to lack of skill miss timed my approach and I anything else then Zooming out would make me bleed too much E. If I dont miss time it I do get my target, from there I sweap right in on the next target. If I get a break I build up some E, but still I dont BnZ and will never do so unless its a plane that REALLY requires it.
Tex
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I still consider my self new to the game 3-4 weeks of game play...
You've been posting like a mad man then "Member" texMurphy:D
BnZ is fun when you aren't looking for a whole lot of challenge and just want to work on gunnery otherwise you are correctamundo. lol
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Ummmm please dont freekin mix all of us into one bag.
First of all Boooore N Zzzzzz is not only booring to fight against but its the most booring tactic to fly as well.
Tex
I fly BnZ alot... But lately I've been in a 109, and have seen the other side of the lake... MAN, I sure hope I don't fly my 190 like many of the people I run into!
Anyway, if you "push it" on the BnZ (ie, loop over quicker, don't get every last drop of E from your zoom), it can really make things interesting. I'll tell you one thing, if your aim isn't good, you won't last long doing it. Unfortunately, mine is not :cool:
If you run into a few BnZ pilots who know how to push it effectively, fighting against a BnZ is ANYTHING but boring ;)
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If you run into a few BnZ pilots who know how to push it effectively, fighting against a BnZ is ANYTHING but boring
I agree with this. I have on the rare occasion run into some agressive BnZrs, it was fun for a little while, theyd dive I'd jink, theyd go back up jsut enough come back down I'd let em walk up a little closer, jink etc..., but it is so rare to find a guy that is a very agressive BnZer that they are almost unmentionable.
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Originally posted by mars01
You've been posting like a mad man then "Member" texMurphy:D
BnZ is fun when you aren't looking for a whole lot of challenge and just want to work on gunnery otherwise you are correctamundo. lol
Im a forum potato I know.. ;)
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Originally posted by hogenbor
Sounds like me, except that I didn't fly the last few days. A G-10 should have the edge on the deck against a P-51b, it can drag the E right out it. If I want to land a few kills and I don't want to fight I run, easy as that. He prolly expected you to give up when you got low on fuel. Still you got a nice fight out of it.
True. Not compaining, just curious about the mentality. I mean he clearly had ammo and gas, because he was just coming into the fight from his base. I was alone ( I think). Certainly there were no high alt greens around me. And he had a bit of alt. He's a pretty good stick. He had no kills, there was no one else around. But he runs 2 sectors towards rookland, going nowhere in particular. He didn't have ord, or anything. Is this some new strategy? :confused:
Originally posted by hogenbor
The last time I upped a G-10 by the way I ran into you in a G-10. That was a GOOD fight, best I had in a while. Had to play all the tricks and push all the buttons on that. Pinged you with mg's but had to break when a P-51 newbie crashed the party. Still got the kill, dunno what happened to you, but anyway.
Thanks for sayin so. Yeah I remember that. Was a great fight!
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Originally posted by Vudak
MAN, I sure hope I don't fly my 190 like many of the people I run into!
Recently I've been seeing a guy in a 190. Just to clarify, not anyone in this thread. He blows by everyone and heads to the base, does a few "runway passes". No base capture attempt going on by anyone, BTW. I'm in a fast plane so I catch him. He rolls like a madman for a bit, then dies. I've been killing this guy a lot, like multiple days, multiple times per day, he's doing the same thing. Finally at some point in the evening I see "xxxx landed 5 kills". LOL, wonder what happened there. :D
Anyway, if that's fun, then great. Really can't understand it though.
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I know there is alot of good 190 pilots, but the ones we have now are absolutely awful, the ones circling over A4 last night are a good example.
They come in at high speed, 'one pass, haul a**', vulch, and extend 6k out even though there was only 3 aircraft up. It helped tone my accuracy with the field guns, but I don't see how they can have any fun.
Originally posted by phookat
Recently I've been seeing a guy in a 190.
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Originally posted by Delirium
I know there is alot of good 190 pilots, but the ones we have now are absolutely awful,
There are a lot of players trying out the Fw190D-9 that never really flew it before. I think this is due to the ENY plane limiter and AH2's emphasis on speed.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Why would you drop and run ?
So he can build seperation enough for him to reverse and go for the head on.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
So he can build seperation enough for him to reverse and go for the head on.
ack-ack
... again ... and again ... ahhh ... now I 'member !!!
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Originally posted by Delirium
I know there is alot of good 190 pilots, but the ones we have now are absolutely awful, the ones circling over A4 last night are a good example.
They come in at high speed, 'one pass, haul a**', vulch, and extend 6k out even though there was only 3 aircraft up. It helped tone my accuracy with the field guns, but I don't see how they can have any fun.
I was at 5 I think last night for a good deal of the night in my A5.
Had a blast, killed a few old enemies from AW including Wnt2 6Dan and Elk. And they, me
Life was good
The fights were even better.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
So he can build seperation enough for him to reverse and go for the head on.
ack-ack
LMAO! :rofl
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Originally posted by Karnak
There are a lot of players trying out the Fw190D-9 that never really flew it before. I think this is due to the ENY plane limiter and AH2's emphasis on speed.
And thats probably their mistake.
Speed has alot to do with this game but its not everything.
I find myself more effective running at a reduced throttle when fighting and only gloing full bore when I need some extra umph then running fast all the time.
Most of the time when Im killed or otherwise outflown Im finding its because I was going too fast and overshooting, not too slow
My opinion throttle management is almost key in the FW.
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Seems to me the best way to learn a plane and it's advantages/disadvantages is to stay in and take your lumps.
Since no one really dies and you get a free plane next trip, why not? I can see grabbing away from the fight for a bit of alt, but the one pass haul a** passes seem pointless.
I can't believe folks are that worried about perks and points.
Dan/Slack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
So he can build seperation enough for him to reverse and go for the head on.
ack-ack
damn straight if you come at me with alt for a head on I will get space and do same to you. 3x 20mm usaly work nice.
if you dont go for a head on then i usualy will fight properly unless your guaranteed to out turn me.