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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vorticon on September 15, 2004, 12:43:39 PM

Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: vorticon on September 15, 2004, 12:43:39 PM
disclaimer: the veiwpoints portrayed in this post are by a uninterested bystander based on the unrepresentative viewpoints given out over a 1 year period of whining on this board.


i foresaw all this.

when the user calibrated bombsite came in, i pointed out that people would simply not bother, and up a p38 or a mossie because quite simply they hold the same amount, if not more tons of ord than most of the level bombers, and are pretty dern accurate in a dive bomb.

so lo and behold, people start suicide feild porking, because theres really no point in flying all the way back home.

they listened

the whines grew even louder

when they pointed out that hardening fuel would stop the problem, i pointed out that they would just up even more people and do it till it worked, which was even worse.

they didnt listen

so they reduced the effectiveness of it, forcing people to horde even more.

in desperation hitech came up with the ENY limiter, if only to return it to even sides attacking unguarded bases less than a sector apart.

the whines grew even louder, but at least this time the strat guys and furballers were on the same side.

when pizza and trinity came out, they were based on the strat guys idea that wide fronts would somehow make the game funner, everyone loved them for 2 weeks, then the furballers hated them because finding a fight was "to hard"

when festerma and ozkansas came out, they were based on the furballers idea that a narrowish front would make for a funner game,everyone loved them for 2 weeks, then the strat guys hated them because is was "to hard"

in 2 weeks the ki-84 is coming out, i predict that for 2 weeks everyone will love it, then they'll start b*ing because
A: its to uber because it doesnt fit with whichever of the 15 different data sets they decided to use.
B: its FM is porked because it doesnt fit with whichever of the 15 different data sets they decided to use.

TOD will come out, leaving the furballers to there utopian MA, and the strat weenies will get there straturgized utopia.


then the whines will start.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: la7'sRule on September 15, 2004, 12:45:48 PM
lankaster 3 = 14x 1000lb bombs x3 with formation.. = 36000 lbd's

I laugh at your p-38 ordinance remark
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Furious on September 15, 2004, 12:51:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by la7'sRule
lankaster 3 = 14x 1000lb bombs x3 with formation.. = 36000 lbd's

I laugh at your p-38 ordinance remark


Uhmm, 14000x3=42000
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Kev367th on September 15, 2004, 12:54:46 PM
Vorticon - You missed a few out

I don't have any fuel waaahhhh because my base is porked.
Dar is out waaaaahhhh because nobody upped to defend it.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: gofaster on September 15, 2004, 12:56:12 PM
Lancaster's don't have a forward-firing rocket load for easy "point and shoot" fun.  They also make for piss-poor dogfighters in case the mission parameters change mid-route.  :p
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Octavius on September 15, 2004, 12:56:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
Uhmm, 14000x3=42000


WRONG.  26x2 = 42!
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Morpheus on September 15, 2004, 12:59:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
Uhmm, 14000x3=42000


lmao!
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Karnak on September 15, 2004, 01:05:15 PM
Mathman needs to teach a remedial mathmatics course on this board I think.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: SlapShot on September 15, 2004, 01:05:55 PM
Gosh !!! .. should we now call you "Karnac the Magnificent." ?

:rolleyes:
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Westy on September 15, 2004, 01:11:55 PM
Note regarding one item;

 IMO....

  Players upping in heavy suicide-jabo's instead of bombers had nothing to do with the introduction of the calibrated bomb site.  

 It was a lame style of  "gameplay" brought to AH from another (now defunct) game where it was an arena staple.  Players there, and then later here, would choose heavy fighters in order in to ZIP past any base defenders. Something heavily laden bombers, especially like B-17's and Lancasters, could not hope to do unless they were at 25k or higher.  These "pile-its" would also would auger after release and impact in order to be able to re-up as fast as possible for another run. For the end means was fast base wrecking which lead to the base's capture.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Karnak on September 15, 2004, 02:10:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Gosh !!! .. should we now call you "Karnac the Magnificent." ?

:rolleyes:

So long as we can call you Mr. Spock for your lack of humor.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: bustr on September 15, 2004, 02:20:29 PM
So why do we calibrate the buff's bomb sight now days????? What is the real historical reason the sight was changed?:)
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: vorticon on September 15, 2004, 02:25:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by la7'sRule
lankaster 3 = 14x 1000lb bombs x3 with formation.. = 36000 lbd's

I laugh at your p-38 ordinance remark


p-38 carries about 3000 pounds of ord (just enough to destroy 1 fighter hangar) and without a formation, only the b17 b26 and lancaster carry more than 3000 pounds.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: SlapShot on September 15, 2004, 02:29:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
So long as we can call you Mr. Spock for your lack of humor.


Notice the spelling ... did you ever watch the "The Late Show" with Johnny Carson ? ... if not, then you probably missed the humor.

Oh ... and I would be honored to be called "Spock" ... ;)
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: RTSigma on September 15, 2004, 03:37:07 PM
You are always going to have people who want to X in Y time with Z amount of effort.
Title: Re: i foresaw all this...
Post by: DipStick on September 15, 2004, 03:51:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
the veiwpoints portrayed in this post are by a uninterested bystander

As in STILL don't pay to play after several years. Nobody really cares what a freeloader thinks. Pay and help support HTC and AH2s growth or shuddup. :rolleyes:

Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
So long as we can call you Mr. Spock for your lack of humor.

Definately not a Tonight Show fan or are we just that old Slap? :lol
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Karnak on September 15, 2004, 03:56:05 PM
I saw the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, but never that skit.  I only became aware of it after people asked if I got my call sign from it.

I took my call sign from an ancient Egyptian temple complex.  Abu Simbel at Karnak.

I recognized your reference, but not that it was made in jest.  Mayhap it is me who is humorless?
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Zazen13 on September 15, 2004, 04:43:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Notice the spelling ... did you ever watch the "The Late Show" with Johnny Carson ? ... if not, then you probably missed the humor.

Oh ... and I would be honored to be called "Spock" ... ;)


Slappy suits you better than Spock. ;)

Zaz
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: brendo on September 15, 2004, 04:47:05 PM
Dip, Im interested in what he has to say, whether he pays or not.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: eagl on September 15, 2004, 05:09:19 PM
A possible way to limit suicide heavy bombers is to limit trim authority to the airspeeds and trim levels the planes had during their normal service use.  If the plane can't be trimmed to dive at high speeds, it'll be very difficult to get a stable dive bomb platform in the heavy bombers.  I'd think that before a diving heavy bomber could get lined up on the target, either the wings would rip off or the plane's natural pitch trim condition would cause the nose to start rising regardless of how much nose-down pitch force was applied.  If the speed increases too fast, the wings rip off.

Also, bombs simply won't separate from the aircraft below a certain G level or with a relative G vector that doesn't point straight down the mechanical release pathway and out of the bomb bay.  Many (most?) heavy bombers had simple gravity release mechanisms that required positive Gs, and a G load vector nearly straight out of the bomb bay to get the bombs out of the bomb bay.  Release them at under 1 G or at an angle, and there is an increased chance that the bombs will hang up in the bay or cause bomb to bomb or bomb to aircraft contact and possible detonation while near the aircraft.  Simulating release limitations in G, airspeed, sideslip angle, etc. would almost entirely kill suicide dive bombing in heavy bombers.  A heavy bomber relying on gravity release for safe bomb separation would be unable to release it's bomb load in a stable dive beyond around 60 deg dive angle.  The bombs might come off the rack, but they'd just as likely end up in the cockpit after bouncing around inside the bomb bay and against each other.  

Requiring a relative G vector that is within 20-30 deg of straight out of the bomb bay for safe bomb separation would be quite realistic.  For more realism, have the bombs detonate immediately after they arm if they are still within 20 ft of the aircraft, simulating bomb to aircraft impact.  I've seen video of this happening in RL when a bomb was released outside of release parameters.

I'm not sure if it's not already done, but do the wingman bombers actually try to follow the lead bomber down in the dive, or do they disconnect when past a certain dive angle?
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: 230G on September 15, 2004, 05:14:49 PM
Quote
disclaimer: the veiwpoints portrayed in this post are by a uninterested bystander based on the unrepresentative viewpoints given out over a 1 year period of whining on this board.

  Followed by much: "See!!! I TOLD you so!!!"

  Why can't you guys just enjoy the game instead of dissecting and griping about everything HT does? What's wrong with the ENY limiter? Challenge yourselves; fly the lamer planes. Sheesh!!!
  QUIT WHINING!!!
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: FiLtH on September 15, 2004, 05:33:07 PM
The bombsight is too clunky for me to bother with. Not only is it complicated, I have no interest in learning it. I find glide bombing to work great with Lancs. I know some folks hate it...but thats the way I do it.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Don on September 15, 2004, 05:49:55 PM
>>It was a lame style of "gameplay" brought to AH from another (now defunct) game where it was an arena staple. Players there, and then later here,<<

I flew in a now defunct game where "some" of the players played this way; they were criticized and harrassed by most of the community for flying that way. That they made their way to AH like everyone else has more to do with a "best game in town" attitude than anything else. We, in AH have pork weenies, we also have an awful lot of vulchers who will bog down an effort simply to get kills, we also have too many who will steal kills and create killshooter situations; it sucks but there it is. We in the community have a lot more to be concerned with than how a new planetype will be received or, will affect gameplay.
If it's a good plane (read uber) weenies will flock to it, and thats all one will see for months at a time. If it is less Uber, it will be restricted because of a low eny value. The only thing (IMO) that one can predict is that if it is a good planetype, the whiners will get their licks in, and enjoyment of the planetype will be restricted :( (sigh) I am tired now
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 15, 2004, 05:55:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
Lancaster's don't have a forward-firing rocket load for easy "point and shoot" fun.  They also make for piss-poor dogfighters in case the mission parameters change mid-route.  :p



Actually you can swing a solo Lancaster around in here pretty good.  For added fun, get someone to join as the gunner.  A squad mate of mine used to do this while I'd gun for him, we never made it home but we did surprise a few fighters during those raids.



ack-ack
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Arlo on September 15, 2004, 05:59:52 PM
I predict that people will whine.

I'm a bloody psychotic ... err ... psychic. :D
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: MOIL on September 15, 2004, 06:02:29 PM
"As in STILL don't pay to play after several years. Nobody really cares what a freeloader thinks. Pay and help support HTC and AH2s growth or shuddup"


"Dip, Im interested in what he has to say, whether he pays or not"



Ask again why the game numbers have gone into the toilet, people unhappy and a BB filled with this kind of stuff.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Arlo on September 15, 2004, 06:07:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MOIL
Ask again why the game numbers have gone into the toilet, people unhappy and a BB filled with this kind of stuff.


Don't have to, really. Anyone's who's been around long enough to see TV go from the The Dick Van Dyke Show and The Twilight Zone to reality tv  knows what John Q. Public's brain has eroded to. :D
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Halo on September 15, 2004, 08:49:12 PM
Gameplay threads are the same wardance around the obvious: people do what is in their best interest.  That includes making the most ingenious use of whatever equipment is offered.  

If Aces High offers C-47s that can drop troops from an immelman,  it is even more unrealistic to expect everyone to play like they can't.  This game is controlled by design capability, not participant rule making.
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Roscoroo on September 15, 2004, 10:41:47 PM
Actually Vort is still just a kid so ease up on him guys ... Just because he is still in school and doesnt have the mum/ dad CC to play on doesnt make him an outcast .
Title: Re: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Jackal1 on September 16, 2004, 06:09:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
TOD will come out, leaving the furballers to there utopian MA, and the strat weenies will get there straturgized utopia.
. [/B]


Buuuuuuuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z! You were doing pretty good till you came out with this one. The Ouija board says one week and it will be all box gamers.
Title: Re: i foresaw all this...
Post by: thrila on September 16, 2004, 06:23:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon


when the user calibrated bombsite came in, i pointed out that people would simply not bother, and up a p38 or a mossie
 


So where are all these mossies you talked about?
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: la7'sRule on September 16, 2004, 09:45:39 AM
yah i guess your right they only make like $200k a month out of us.
and look at all the nice things theyve done :) made game un play able for lower end users.
Thnx htc good going

This was in reply to the "freeloaders" statement
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: la7'sRule on September 16, 2004, 09:52:58 AM
And any way Bomb sight takes like 7 seconds to calibrate.

f6 view press U
hold crosshair on fixed point on floor whilst holding down y hold for 2-3 seconds Longer = more acurate.

press escape and click on target on map
press U again and its calibrated.
just remember to fly from inside f6 view and keep speed same or ul need to re calibrate.

it aint difficult.
And when u get good at it its very satisfying to hit a ostwind or tiger with a 1000lb bomb
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 16, 2004, 02:28:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by la7'sRule
made game un play able for lower end users.
Thnx htc good going





Don't blame HT for your crappy system that can't run AH2.  That's your fault not his.  You should ask your parents to increase your allowance or mow some lawns for your neighbors.



ack-ack
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: DipStick on September 16, 2004, 02:51:45 PM
Removed by me. Just ain't worth it. ;)
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: la7'sRule on September 16, 2004, 03:44:59 PM
I can play lol and no probs at all i also host h2h and have no probs :)

And i am the parent
Title: i foresaw all this...
Post by: MOSQ on September 16, 2004, 05:50:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by la7'sRule
And i am the parent

I'm not exactly sure what to say........except that I totally agree with Ack-Ack!