Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ravells on September 16, 2004, 02:51:18 PM
-
I recently watched 'We Were Soldiers' starring Mel Gibson.
The film portrayed all these soldiers who had very idyllic family lives at home - beautiful kids, loving wives, total fidelity etc.
Got me wondering if that was really the case. I was wondering whether people who had been in combat situations which would give most people Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (and here I would place the army at the top of the list over the navy and airforce as the army bods get to see the corpses and blood and guts more frequently) would be more likely to have dysfunctional family lives than civilians would. I.e. whether their jobs put them more at the dysfunctional end of the bell curve than say, electricians.
On the other hand, seeing dead people must make you thank god about how lucky you are and treat each day with your family as a miracle. So that would argue that being in the services is more likely to improve your family life.
I know there are quite a few people here who have probably seen some fairly horrific things. Have your experiences impacted on your family life for better or for worse?
cheers
Ravs
-
I can't speak for the combat aspect... but I made three 6+ month cruises while in the Navy.
Usually, about month or so prior to my departure, my wife and I would argue to the point that by the time I left, we were both ready for me to go. It wasn't rational... and I didn't even realize we were doing it until my last cruise.
-
husband or dad deploying is always hard on family. as for ptsd i think its more prevalent in draftee like ww2 or korea or vn or noncombat exposed to heavy combat in modern us military. in todays us military almost always if your job is combat you almost always had to volunteer specifically to be in combat unit. no comparison between workups for combat unit today and any other era of us military. modern us combat unit before you are dodging bullets very good chance you have had explained to you exactly what to expect and what to see. it may be disturbing but shock is reduced because you expect worst going into it. as for combat stress at home bad home will magnify stress and good home will negate it from what ive seen. problem is lots of guys in military get married young and to wrong girl. they down ten points at kickoff. "seeing dead people" depends on the person and the motivation i think. no one answer to that one. no family for me but most guys i know dont bring work home with them. home is escape from work. kids help that a bunch i think but it evens out its very hard for guys to be away from kids during workups and when they deploy. most smart wives filter all the news and only mention the good things when the dad is away because you dont want to hit a guy with a problem he cant solve or help fix. it will just distract him from the tasks at hand. me personally i was told combat and war zone was going to be worse than it was by more experienced guys looking out for me before my first time. i think this is the way to do it. overprepare when you have time so the shock isnt that great. biggest shock for me always was coming from combat zone back to us if id been in area like that for more than a couple of months. like coming to a different world usually you just want to watch movies with the guys in nice quiet room and have a few beers. everyone else wants you to hit the loud bars and crank up the "welcome back" party but usually better to do that a week or two later. ears and eyes get used to paying lots of attention to everything in combat zone. when youve got downtime the guys youre working with dont talk a bunch for no reason. several months of that and the first weekend youre back you find yourself getting pissed off when twenty people in living room during a party and they all yapping really loud. it just takes a couple of weeks to adjust. i think its a sensory thing not a mental thing. same way crying baby will drive me nuts but a buddy with two kids doesnt even hear the crying unless its injury related.
-
Cheating is Rampant in the Navy..by both sides...
You fight the last month before you leave for deployment...then after your home a week you fight again for a month or two..the latter having to do with the spouse in the US has learned how to control the household and then the deployed spouse comes home and tries to pick up where they left off.
-
Had the same thing in my unit.
We called it the "pre-departure fight" and the "homecoming fight".
We were generally on a ~ 30 day rotation, month home followed by a month gone followed by a month home, etc., etc.
So the fights started about 3 days before departure and the first 2-3 days when you got back. In between you could have three "normal" weeks.
-
Thanks all,
very informative.
Ravs
-
Once, when I was 5 or 6, my dad grew a moustache while he was deployed. When we went to meet him at the airport, I walked right past him, and when he picked me up, it scared the **** out of me.
Other than that, we were cool with it.
However: This is the one aspect that prevents me from going back to the Navy. I'd considered becoming a JAG after graduation, but to be honest, I enjoy spending time with my wife and daughter too much.
Had I still been in the Navy when we got married, it wouldn't have been as much of a problem, but having gotten away from that, and starting a new life... I think Denise would skin me alive.
-Sik
-
Retired Army here. 20 years and married 18 years of those 20. Still married to the same now going onto our 25th year.
It takes alot to hold the glue together.
-
Yup....its wierd, when I'm here my wife cannot do a damn thing. When I'm gone, I hardly feel missed.
To answer a different aspect of your question: Living on base most of the time is a great experience. The community aspect of it makes it so much different than living in an apt or some houseing development.
Example....the pancho barns party is coming up soon. EVERYONE goes to it and it is a blast. You meet alot of people you woulndt normally meet under other circumstances.
PLUS, there is alot to do on base family wise. Allways a playground or jungle gym to go to and every month is some new event.
-
What about being in combat and trying to lead a 'normal' family life afterwards?
Thanks, I appreciate your answers
Ravs
-
I don't want to try and say that John's experience was at all indicative of what happens to Combat vets who return home. However, if you are looking for personal stories of Vets who came home Changed, John's fits the bill.
John and my father were best friends in High School, growing up in Japan. They two sisters (my mother and her older sister), and they both Joined the Navy during Vietnam.
They both went into Aviation. Dad spent the duration of the war in training in the states, but John was deployed on the USS Enterprise (CVN-65), when the ship suffered an accident causing a major fire that killed 28 crewmen and injured hundreds of others, including poor John.
That's pretty much the end of the clear information I have about him. The family stopped talking about uncle john by the time I was 6. When he came back, he was a rather different man. He abused his wife and kids, and ultimately wound up in jail on account of that abuse. The family was totally destroyed. His son, my cousin was institutionalised as a kid, and last I heard was in jail. His wife worked the rest of her too short life as a waitress, and I've lost track of his daughter.
People go through a lot of changes in the years form 18-22, and maybe John was just a time bomb no matter what. Whatever the reason, he boarded that ship as my father's best friend and my uncle, but he departed that ship a total piece of **** monster.
-Sik
-
Originally posted by ravells
What about being in combat and trying to lead a 'normal' family life afterwards?
Thanks, I appreciate your answers
Ravs
i think it depends on the person and their training and preparation. i know plenty of guys with a wife and kids that have seen plenty of combat. if youre selected and trained correctly then you understand the job and want to be there. if thats the case no cause for shock or being overly upset just because youve seen combat. even draftee in ww2 who saw lots of combat came home started family were good dad. combat like other things enough exposure you get used to it. i think that "guy exposed to intense combat never again able to fit in society" is nothing but bs stereotype. sure its happened to a couple of guys but i think a large number of guys claiming to have "been in the ****" and now theyre all high strung and whenever they do something stupid they say "you cant understand you werent there dude" are nothing but fakers. some of the most well grounded well balanced guys i know who are husband and dad have been in very heavy combat more than a few times. also theres more to life than the job. almost only people you talk about work with are people you work with. friends outside of work and girlfriends and family they dont really join in conversation over work. usually you have "funny stories" for friends outside of work and the family and the girls. keep in mind this my experience others may have different experience and im not saying they are wrong.
-
Originally posted by Sikboy
I don't want to try and say that John's experience was at all indicative of what happens to Combat vets who return home. However, if you are looking for personal stories of Vets who came home Changed, John's fits the bill.
John and my father were best friends in High School, growing up in Japan. They two sisters (my mother and her older sister), and they both Joined the Navy during Vietnam.
They both went into Aviation. Dad spent the duration of the war in training in the states, but John was deployed on the USS Enterprise (CVN-65), when the ship suffered an accident causing a major fire that killed 28 crewmen and injured hundreds of others, including poor John.
That's pretty much the end of the clear information I have about him. The family stopped talking about uncle john by the time I was 6. When he came back, he was a rather different man. He abused his wife and kids, and ultimately wound up in jail on account of that abuse. The family was totally destroyed. His son, my cousin was institutionalised as a kid, and last I heard was in jail. His wife worked the rest of her too short life as a waitress, and I've lost track of his daughter.
People go through a lot of changes in the years form 18-22, and maybe John was just a time bomb no matter what. Whatever the reason, he boarded that ship as my father's best friend and my uncle, but he departed that ship a total piece of **** monster.
-Sik
in my book that falls under the support guys being exposed to something they may have trained for but was not expected and that accident was really a bad one. im not surprised some young Sailor had a hard time coping with that. but compare it to Sailor in pacific in world war two. those guys were in many fights where damage and kia was very high. but it was expected at time. Sailor figured they were going to get hit sooner or later by japs. i think mental preparation plays big role. if you waiting for the bomb to go off you dont jump as high as if you werent aware it was going to go off.
-
Originally posted by ravells
What about being in combat and trying to lead a 'normal' family life afterwards?
Thanks, I appreciate your answers
Ravs
I can't speak for combat, but just the training side of it. There is nothing that can truely prepare you for the stress and fog of war you experience during combat but one thing they can do is give you a taste of caos.
I've been put under some of the worst stress I that I can think of in my life. During that time of stress I was taught to follow orders and carry out tasks while trying to remember everything I've been taught.
People that go through this kind of thing remember it when they get to combat and thank god that they had a taste of something they could never prepare for.
As far as returning home, I know guys that had seen some bad stuff in their time. They don't like to talk about it but when they do their eyes water and they drift off to another time and stare into the face of horror itself. Most of them tell me it makes them a better person all the way around. Now that they've experience what hell was like they know how to enjoy heavan. Nothing they will ever do again in their lives will be nearly half as tough as what they've allready done.
-
thanks Gunslinger.
ravs
-
I think it is not just the military experence,rather it is life experence.
Drugs, booze, major sickness, selfishness seem to produce the same number of unplesantness among humans. Just a thought.
-
Originally posted by AWMac
Retired Army here. 20 years and married 18 years of those 20. Still married to the same now going onto our 25th year.
It takes alot to hold the glue together.
Dont sniff the glue:)