Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: killnu on September 17, 2004, 11:13:14 PM
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just wanted to let everyone know that barry bonds is in the 700 club!!!!!
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700*, you mean
*doped on steroids
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He passed 700 steroid injections long ago.
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Bonds is a cheater, plain and simple.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Bonds is a cheater, plain and simple.
And an arrogant A-hole
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roids don't help you hit a freakin ball.
WTG Barry.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
roids don't help you hit a freakin ball.
WTG Barry.
No but they will help you send that ball the better part of 1,000 feet when you do hit it.
Otherwise it would probably just be a popup
Todays guys cant compare to guys of past, Everything is different from the equipment they use (Todays balls are designed to go farther then in the days of Ruth) To the way they condition and prepare for a game is totally different
When Bonds stops lifting weights, lets himself go to pot (figuratively speaking) Stays out all night getting trashed then comes in and swats a couple of balls over the fence. then I'll be impressed.
Same thing with other sports.
Golf... if you really wanna call that glorified hobby a sport is another classic example.
I'd like to see how well todays hotshots do using clubs and balls from the 30's and 40's.
Everything is just so different you just cant compare the two as they are practically in different worlds
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So... Barry is the strongest hitter in MLB?
Steroids don't make you hit .350 in a year. And they don't put the ball out of the park. The batter does that. It's like saying steroids help you hit a golf ball farther. It's a BS statement made by petty people.
It's a great feat. The question is if he can break Hank's record.
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Originally posted by Mini D
So... Barry is the strongest hitter in MLB?
Steroids don't make you hit .350 in a year. And they don't put the ball out of the park. The batter does that. It's like saying steroids help you hit a golf ball farther. It's a BS statement made by petty people.
It's a great feat. The question is if he can break Hank's record.
They wont help you hit the ball out of the park huh?
LOL ok if they dont then tell me the point in taking them?
Certainly isnt cause he's planning on entering a Mr Universe compitition.
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Originally posted by Mini D
So... Barry is the strongest hitter in MLB?
Steroids don't make you hit .350 in a year. And they don't put the ball out of the park. The batter does that. It's like saying steroids help you hit a golf ball farther. It's a BS statement made by petty people.
It's a great feat. The question is if he can break Hank's record.
Bonds is a good hitter, wouldn't be in MLB if he couldn't hit the ball. BUT, taking roids increases one's strength far more than the average ball player. Sadly, the use of roids has allowed him to hit a ball farther, and with more power than had he not been taking roids.
My bet, a roidless bonds, and there would be no above 700 mark for him. Be interesting to see how many Aaron would have whacked out had he been taking steroids too....
You can say I am petty, but I can say you are stupid for the statement you made. FYI, I think McGuire was jacking up too... and if he was, that puts him in the same boat in my eyes, a cheat.
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By that logic, the strongest man in MLB would be the best HR hitter.. right?
Are you saying Barry Bonds is the strongest man in MLB?
The steroids debate in baseball is a weak argument. It always has been and it always will be. If you don't believe me, write a list of skills you need for baseball and see where "strength" weighs in.
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Originally posted by Mini D
By that logic, the strongest man in MLB would be the best HR hitter.. right?
Are you saying Barry Bonds is the strongest man in MLB?
The steroids debate in baseball is a weak argument. It always has been and it always will be. If you don't believe me, write a list of skills you need for baseball and see where "strength" weighs in.
Depends. if the strongest player also happens to be a very good hitter, then yes.
there is only 2 skills where stregth weighs in.
Throwing and.. and ummmmmmm
Whats that other thing again?
Oh yea
HITTING
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When Bonds stops lifting weights, lets himself go to pot (figuratively speaking) Stays out all night getting trashed then comes in and swats a couple of balls over the fence. then I'll be impressed.
I bet you Bernie Mac could do it....
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Originally posted by RightF00T
I bet you Bernie Mac could do it....
ROFLMAO
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Look at the HR column see a trend?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/3918/
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Bonds claims it is nutrition and excersize. But if it is supplements I say so what? Supplements have nothing to do with hitting a baseball. Strength has nothing to do with bat speed, or hand eye coordination.
Hank Aaron was denegrated when he passed up the Babe because the Babe took crappy care of himself. Hank passed other notables because he never left the game to serve in the armed forces like Ted Williams or Hank Greenburg.
Players today are able to maintain their fitness year round instead of getting an insurance job in the off season... and the beat goes on.
Give Barry his props.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Supplements have nothing to do with hitting a baseball. Strength has nothing to do with bat speed, or hand eye coordination.
ROTFLOL!!!!!!
If steroids make you stronger, your bat speed will be quicker and thus you can wait longer on a pitch before committing to swinging or holding back. That a huge advantage.
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Baseball.
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Wow rip... that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Time a swing some day. What's the difference between a normal swing and a really fast one? Yes.. I bet it's a whopping advantage.
There's stronger hitters in MLB than Barry. Several. Hell... probably 1/3 of MLB. But you guys go on thinking that steroids magically make Barry hit the ball better and faster. If that's what you need to convince yourself he's not really that great... just stick with it.
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OK, you've intrigued me. I couldn't give a squat about MLB, and I care more about MLB than I do about Barry Bonds, but...
Granted, he's got to be talented to even make contact with the baseball, much less make contact with it in such a way as to direct it somewhere, but wouldn't he gain an advantage in distance with his increased strength, and therefor have a greater chance of getting the ball over the fence? I'm sure muscles alone don't make you a great hitter, but they can't hurt, eh? Then, I also don't know squat about baseball, so I could be way off.
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Like SOB, I know next to squat about it but I always thought it was the weight factor. The bigger guys always punch the thing, even with seemingly slow looking swings. It's gotta be some physics thing like mass x velocity x yer momma.
Now steroids... nevermind the strength, they make you big. That's gotta help.
I'm not sure it's such a horrible thing to take something to make you bigger... You could just eat lots, or whatever.
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Ameristalker - what do you care about a game that isn't even played in Alberta.
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Originally posted by Nash
I'm not sure it's such a horrible thing to take something to make you bigger... You could just eat lots, or whatever.
But "roids" don't just make you bigger, they make you a lot more strong.
Being stronger means you can swing that bat a lot faster.
Combined with a talent to connect with the ball, I would think you could hit the ball with more force the stronger you are.\
Picture a robot pitcher and robot batter with unlimited power. Each is perfect every time. The pitcher always pitches as 100 mph and the batter always swings exatly the same and hits the ball dead on. The batter then is able to increase the power 20% each swing.
Anyone here gonna tell me that the power makes no difference? The more power the batter has, the farther that ball is gonna sail.
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har har... Too bad MLB includes Canuckikanistania. :)
I was actually on fire as a teen baseball player. Other teams in the various leagues used to get me to pitch for them if they got into the big tourneys or provincials. But I couldn't hit the ball for squat. Being a pitcher and whackin' a good number of guys square in the back, I understood the unpredictability of it. Going to bat, frankly, scared the crap out of me. I doubt steroids woulda helped.
But yeah... what about what I said? It was the bigger guys (dare I say fattish? - not neccessarily strong) - when they connected - pow!
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people and their wierd beliefs geez.
WTG bond's.
now only if the angles could make the world series and win again :).
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Mass helps. Strength helps. Barry was hitting them a mile when he was 190 lbs and he's still hitting them a mile. What he does better now is actually make contact. His highest batting average of his career was last year.
Hell... look at Dale Strawberry.... he weighed about 170 (6'2") when he played and he could hit the ball a mile too. Strength helps, a perfectly timed release makes it happen.
Like I said... strength is way down on the list of things that make a ball leave the park.
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duplicate post.
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Its just not I who believes this, mini. After reading this article I was convinced:
http://joekapp.com/cms/content/view/20/
Quote:
-- The 185-pound Bonds (1990) who hit .301 with 33 homers (and 52 steals), with a .565 slugging percentage.
-- The 235-pound (2001) Bonds who hit .328 with 73 homers and an .863 slugging percentage.
Tough call, eh?
Barry got a lot bigger and stronger, Barry got a lot better. Went from superstar to supernova. And while doing so, became closely involved with the good folks at BALCO.
For hitting home runs, bigger is better.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Its just not I who believes this, mini. After reading this article I was convinced:
http://joekapp.com/cms/content/view/20/
Exactly, common sense dictates that he is a better hitter from it. I guess some people just lack the common sense gene
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oh the roid thing. lol. notice they dont talk about it anymore? wonder why that is..hmmm? maybe they dont have the evidence they thought they had or would get.
so, the bigger you are, the faster you swing the bat? give me a break, i guess oh, i dont know, how bout hulk hogan in his prime wouldve been the best homerun hitter ever, because he was huge, there fore more bat speed than anyone else, there fore he wouldve hit more homeruns than anyone else. ahhh, no, dont think so.
barry is flat out the best all around ball player I, and most likely most of you, have ever actually seen (watch) play baseball. No amount of any drugs would or could make someone that. he is good.
ps, sorry, wish i wouldve read that article first.
-- The 185-pound Bonds (1990) who hit .301 with 33 homers (and 52 steals), with a .565 slugging percentage.
-- The 235-pound (2001) Bonds who hit .328 with 73 homers and an .863 slugging percentage
so, he gained 50 lbs in 11 years? he must be on steroids for that right? he only has one of the hardest workout routines in baseball, unlimited funds for the best weight trainers, nutritionists, etc....
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Sure, there is no evidence of an exchange of drugs, just like the guy getting busted selling cocaine and then telling the cops "I sold to this guy, this guy.." etc. No circumstantial evidence does indeed equal no prosectution.
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Strength is a plus, no doubt, but.........Swing Technique is more important than strength.
Good technique, or swinging inside the ball is what allows you to lay off pitches and swing later. Quick hands, not strong hands, allow you to lay off pitches until late and then when you combine that with a nice short, or inside swing you get a bat that stays in the power zone longer. The power of the swing comes from the legs and hips. But it's not just brute force. You have to have good technique and timing when you bring those hips and legs into the swing.
I'd say most of Bonds improvements in hitting and slugging percentage have come from him improving his swing mechanics over the years. Plus, 11 years of seeing pitches has got to help you become a better contact hitter, you at least get more discerning in the pitches you swing at.
It's a simpleton's arguement to lay it at the feet of one thing (drugs). If he is taking roids, then I think it's stupid, because it doesn't help your hitting as much as working on your mechanics.
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Performance Enhancers allow one to recover quicker, work out more often, take more reps when working with technique and bulk up quicker.
It's a simpleton's arguement to dismiss the facts that medically prove steroids can help one improve their performance. After all, they don't call them "Performance Enhancers" for nothing.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Bonds claims it is nutrition and excersize. But if it is supplements I say so what? Supplements have nothing to do with hitting a baseball. Strength has nothing to do with bat speed, or hand eye coordination.
I gotta disagree with this one. Bat speed is directly proportional to the amount of muscle fibers that someones body can recruit to work quickly. Not all steroids are for pure size and power as you all believe either. Many of them have strength as a byproduct of what you are specifially working towards.
Bonds secretis nothing more than longevity. Although I don't doubt that he was taking something a little extra.
Bonds career statistics (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml)
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Originally posted by Stringer
Strength is a plus, no doubt, but.........Swing Technique is more important than strength.
Good technique, or swinging inside the ball is what allows you to lay off pitches and swing later. Quick hands, not strong hands, allow you to lay off pitches until late and then when you combine that with a nice short, or inside swing you get a bat that stays in the power zone longer. The power of the swing comes from the legs and hips. But it's not just brute force. You have to have good technique and timing when you bring those hips and legs into the swing.
I'd say most of Bonds improvements in hitting and slugging percentage have come from him improving his swing mechanics over the years. Plus, 11 years of seeing pitches has got to help you become a better contact hitter, you at least get more discerning in the pitches you swing at.
It's a simpleton's arguement to lay it at the feet of one thing (drugs). If he is taking roids, then I think it's stupid, because it doesn't help your hitting as much as working on your mechanics.
Spot on. The more I see people post on this subject, the less they seem to understand baseball. You pretty much summed up most of the issues that weigh in before strength. Possible adding the intangeables such as vission and consistancy. Mechanics are definately the key, and strength can help, but can also hurt those mechanics. It's not the "makes you a better hitter" cure all that everyone likes to pretend it is.
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BTW rip, you're quote is pretty indicative of your argument technique. You use zero real logic and neither does that author.
"Bonds at 195 lbs: .301/33 HRs and 52 stolen bases"
11 YEARS LATER
"Bonds at 235 lbs: .338/73 HRs"
IT MUST BE ROIDS!
Yes... hard to argue with that one.
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He *may or may not* have used steroids. It is not impossible that he added muscle mass through hard work, nutrition, and legal supplementation. At the age of 26 I weighed 175 lbs. 4 years later I weighed 225lbs with less body fat. It's not impossible, and with his money he can afford a chef, strength trainer, etc.
Having said that....baseball sucks, any time spent worrying about it is wasted time.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
....baseball sucks, any time spent worrying about it is wasted time.
Raub makes an excellent point.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
It's a simpleton's arguement to dismiss the facts that medically prove steroids can help one improve their performance. After all, they don't call them "Performance Enhancers" for nothing.
I guess that statement might be, and I stress might be, relevent if it's ever proven that Bonds took sterioids.
Until then, it's not.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
roids don't help you hit a freakin ball.
WTG Barry.
BS, when he hits one out with one hand on the bat,
IT"S THE ROIDS. He's a cheater and should be banned from baseball.
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Baseball and golf are not about how big and strong you are, though being strong does help. Most sports that involve swinging a club, bat, etc... like hockey, golf, and baseball, is rythem. I've seen a guy, 5-10, 180 pounds hit a baseball 450 feet. Tell me that was steroids.
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Originally posted by Stringer
I guess that statement might be, and I stress might be, relevent if it's ever proven that Bonds took sterioids.
Until then, it's not.
(http://home.comcast.net/~ripsnort60/Captobvious.bmp)
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Originally posted by United
Baseball and golf are not about how big and strong you are, though being strong does help. Most sports that involve swinging a club, bat, etc... like hockey, golf, and baseball, is rythem. I've seen a guy, 5-10, 180 pounds hit a baseball 450 feet. Tell me that was steroids.
That was steroids.
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I take it Rip, you are agreeing with me, that your statement is not relevent?
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Don't confuse him.