Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: wolf37 on March 31, 2000, 05:53:00 PM
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woo hoo, look at me, im putting in a subject.
yeah ok, get on with it.
well you know how you go ho with somebody or you shoot the hell out of them from behind and then you get shot. who ever bails or dies first gets the kill and one person does not get a kill. well that sucks, i'll just fly with cannons and go head to head all the time. i may get shot down but the other pilot will be dead so i will get the kill.
i think if you shoot somebody down, it should not matter if you bailed or got killed, you should still get credit for it. yes i know, some will say that you died first so to bad, well in WWII, dead or not, any pilot that shot down an enemy plane still got credit, (if there where witness to comfirm it) so why not in here, the whinning about HO's will slow down a bit because if both pilots get killed or shot down, both will get credit, so cannon dweebs will not have the advantge any longer, it will even it up a bit. and yes i know that a lot of people will want it to stay the way it is, but lots will see it my way as well. so now let the debate begin, those in favour lets hear from you, those not in favour, hey look at the neat picture over there, time to vote. lol
well thanks for my chance to say my two cent's worth.
blue skies all
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I have noticed that mutual death/scores have been implemented this week sometime... anyone else see this?
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Originally posted by wolf37:
woo hoo, look at me, im putting in a subject.
still got credit, (if there where witness to comfirm it) so why not in here, the whinning about HO's will slow down a bit because if both pilots get killed or shot down, both will get credit, so cannon dweebs will not have the advantge any longer, it will even it up a bit.
The whinning will increase "a bit", cause when both guys will get credit for ho kill it will be twice less fear and so twice more ho's. You want it? I do not.
Fariz
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I agree! If you really think about it, the first guy who bailed might in reality be the one who lived by getting out of his burning plane sooner.
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/nine.jpg)
[This message has been edited by NineZ (edited 03-31-2000).]
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Brought this up last century.
I got the impression there was some technical reason related to the design of the app that prohibited the change. I remember some comment like
"who do we assign the kill too? your dead."
This might mean that the server dumps your data when a victory is registered, how long could it wait? what if it took 2 min for me to crash after I HOd ya wolf...he he
You would allready be in the air. Or do we hold you in the tower till all planes you have damaged have landed? You could switch counties befor I hit, then it would be a friendly fire kill..
Or if you stoped your death for 3 secs to see if I plumed too, whats to stop you from wacking someone else in the interm..
Its not imedialtly apperent how to resolve it.The primary identifier for each plane in the game is probably the pilot, that might be fundimental to the game and real hard to change.
I would say it is one of the only things in the game that is not hotly contested, every one hates it. I am sure that HT would love to change it, but the data structures he started with probably dont support the change.
Just guess work..
see ya up there wolf.
Kieren have you seen it consitantly, In the past I have seen ones where both got kills, but it was rare enough that I thought it might be an anomoly....Does it happen everytime you HO someone or just some times... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 03-31-2000).]
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Originally posted by Pongo:
Brought this up last century.
I got the impression there was some technical reason related to the design of the app that prohibited the change.
Pongo,
In a beta when you bailed and until you hit the ground in chute all your kills were awarded to you. Normally it meaned both got credit for ho. I am happy it is gone.
HO is what the real WWII pilots avoided at all cost, it is too risky, and they could not respawn, as we do. If I could vote for it I would ask to remove kill score for a HO for both guys, though It is difficult to implement here.
Fariz
FAriz
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Yeah the scoring is dopey. I bail out safely, and the other guy gets a kill. But he rides his smoking wreck into the terrain and I don't get one. HUH?
I refuse to game this system, so less kills for me I guess...
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Fariz.
Must have been prety early in beta..I dont remember it.
Sure they feared HOs..but they took credit for the kill if they got one. I think if net lag was involved they probebly would have hesitated even more... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Just a guess...
The faster your connection to the server, the more you wind up on the losing side of HO's.
My reasoning is that while the pings are awarded as "what u see is what you get"... ie. if yer seeing pings to the wing of an enemy plane, that plane will take on that damage. However, for a kill to be awarded, or any damage etc. it is from tabulation of those pings on the enemy's side and *from* the enemy's side. I think.
So the enemy's computer tabulates the damage (seen, then) sent from your computer, adds it up, figures the plane is innoperable, and sends a death message to the host.
Whoever pipes that info up to the host first, dies first, and the 'victor' of the HO goes to the guy with the slower connect.
Prolly talkin' ouy my arse here. Like I said, just a guess.
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The impression i have gotten is that the data is sort of collected at HTC and sorted out there. HO,s are and prob will always be part of the game. If the above is true. I think they should award the kill to the guy who gets the most damage on the other guy.
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Fariz, give your head a shake.
in WWII, when fighters met in the sky, they did not avoid one another or the HO, it was kill him first or be killed, they attacked from any angle that worked or was there at the moment, get enemy plane in cross hairs and open fire, only a fool would go, *gee, i better turn here to avoid this HO* and then turn his back on the enemy fighter. you do not do something that will give your enemy any kinda of advantage what so ever, and by turning to avoid the Ho you let your enemy get on your six, and if you think that is the bast thing to do. please let me know where you are flying so i can go HO with you and light up your six when you pull the bonehead manuever. its very simple, kill or be killed,
just like the subject title say's.
blue skies all
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Yah, all I'm sayin' is that if the info is sorted out over at HTC, its sorted out and judged on a first come, first served basis.
And that rules out awarding kills by the guy who inflicted the most damage... because in most HO cases, the deaths are mutual. If yer faster in getting the grim details of yer damage up to the host than the other plane, it awards you your death faster (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And by the way HTC counts deaths, you, and only you, are the one that died in that engagement.
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Actually Nash, you'd be surprised what happens when you ho with a fast connection. Generally what happens to me is I fill the other plane with lead, and he keeps flying. All of the sudden (about 2 seconds later) I either blow-up, or lose a wing, and at the exact same time, he explodes too. Funny thing is, this happens on a modem connect as well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Truth is, the "other guys" connection is the deciding factor on what happens.
Funny Story: One time I ended up in a HO with a spitfire. I hit him with tons of lead, but to no effect. Later on in that sortie (2 minutes later), I heard a bang, lost a wing, but at the same time got a kill.
One of us (probably both) probably had a REAL bad connect. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I've heard of similar things happening to other people as well from time to time.
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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heh, sorry, can't resit. Wolf37, I beg you to do some research into lead turns and effective merges. The guy that approaches the merge pointing his nose directly at the oncomming bandit is putting himself at a severe disadvantage. Lead turning is hardly letting "enemies onto your six" and is hardly a "boneheaded" manuever. In fact, people who fly like I presume you do are the reason why I have no real complaints about the HO's. Indeed I welcome them.
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Originally posted by wolf37:
Fariz, give your head a shake.
in WWII, when fighters met in the sky, they did not avoid one another or the HO, it was kill him first or be killed, they attacked
<skipped>
LOL.
You will need to learn a lot, before making such a statements. NOM. Really, what makes you think this way? HO is a game with a 50/50, according to soviet fighter pilots memories I have read HO was terribly disliked by the fighter pilots, though due to its hazards it happened not so often. Also, in the USSR time while in a 4th grade on the "Victory Day" we had visited in the school by a fighter vet who served in 1943-45 and had 3 confirmed kills. He told that he got one of kills in the HO and he explained it as a most frightful thing ever happened to him while he served.
Fariz
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Bloom, I have adsl and haven't really had that problem, but a squaddie of mine has cable and he's experienced what you mention a bunch of times. I think he was on something like Road Runner (?) which he's come to firmly beleive is *not* good to be using to fly AH with. I dunno.
As far as the way in which the host calculates HO deaths/damage.... like I said.. pure speculation on my part.
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Might be better to give no one the kill.....
The issue of HO's and fighter/bomber mutual kills might be put to rest.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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I have no problems with the HOs.
Those that want to avoid it do,those that dont fly Cannons (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://mypage.direct.ca/w/wardog/wd51.jpg)
-= Death From Behind =-
[This message has been edited by Wardog (edited 04-01-2000).]
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its funny how some poeple whine when they get killed in a HO, i have allways wanted to know how only one plane fly's Ho well the other plane does not. a HO is where both planes fly straight at each other correct, so how can anybody complain about a HO they where part of.
Nash and Fariz, in WWII, pilots did not have the same number of sorties they have here, and as you both said, chance's are both would end up dead, but not in this game, i must have a faster connetion then most for i almost all ways end up dead, no chance to bail, no spinning out of controll, just dead, and i take the hits after i pass the on coming plane. now if i have lite him up and seen a wing blasted off, why should i not get the kill when i know he either had to bail or went in with the plane. ( i just read what i had type up to this point and have more to say inregards to Nash), yes i do know about leading your appoinent or looking for an advantage point, but if there is not one there you go Ho, and dont try and tell me you or others dont do it, you just said you like the Ho's with the fools, and yes Fariz, i have lots to learn about flying, unlike you who started ut as an ace and can do know wrong at all, i must learn it all. i have to assume that Fariz and Nash must both have great score's and are battleing it out for first place in the ranking as you both have never been shot down you are so good at this game, well it seems to me i have at one time or another killed each of you great fighter ace's, and me having so much to learn about flying a fighter, we'll i geuss we all get luckie now and then. but i think you should learn to read a little bit better, this topic is not about HO's but more about the way credit for kills is handed out, kinda thing, yes i need to learn to spell and to word things right, but its clear enough what is been said here. speaking for myself, i have spent the money and have the fast connetion to prevent lag on my system and hopfully on other's system when they play, but because of this i dont get credit for kills i have made, where i died as well. and im sure some people dont like when they shoot me down and they die as well, but somebody else gets the credit just for been around. i know i have gotten credit for kills when im just taking off and not fired a shot, dont really want those kinda kills on my score sheet. i would like to look at my score and say yes i shot down all those planes, but i know i have not. i get a lot of kills just by been vulched and somebody slams into the dirt, woo hoo, a free kill, well i would rather give up the free kills and just take the ones i shot down. and i would be just as happy to go with what Minotaur has suggested, just as long as nobody gets the kill, im sure the cannon dweebs will not like that to much, slow connetion and cannons, get the kill everytime.
well i hoe to see a chage made, it would be better.
blue skies all
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Whooah boy. Don't get yer shirt in a knot there, champ <g>. You asked about the awarding of kills in an HO, and I gave you my best guess. Then you go on to tell Fariz to give his head a shake for suggesting that doing anything other than flying right for the HO is boneheaded. I disagree, and told you as much. Maybe if you tell me exactly what it is you want to hear, I can help ya out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
"i have to assume that Fariz and Nash must both have great score's and are battleing it out for first place in the ranking..."
Hehe - good one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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If you killed a plane, you should get a kill, no matter what happened to you!!!!!!!
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Well...yah?
Like Pongo said:
"I would say it is one of the only things in the game that is not hotly contested, every one hates it."
Looking forward to when this same kinda thread pops up in two weeks. Then again in the next two weeks...ad nausium. If ya can stomache the outcome of a HO, like WD fer example, then by all means do it. If ya can't though, please learn how to fly without them. This constant complaining about them is becoming a bore.
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Originally posted by wolf37:
and yes Fariz, i have lots to learn about flying, unlike you who started ut as an ace and can do know wrong at all
LOL again. AH is my first and only online sym. I have not came here as an "ace" and still in many aspects can not match other guys, so every fight I am learning.
Fariz
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hello again:
everybody thinks that it is only HO's that one gets the kill well the other does not,
not so, i have chased sombody, see there wing blown off, watching them spin downwards towards the ground, and get hit from behind and end up dead with out the chance to spin downwards towards the ground, so i dont get the kill i have just made, why.
some say that if you shoot up a plane and you die first, and that plane's pilot is working like hell to stay up or trying to land, it could take several mins before he eother bails or explodes, or crash. so what, if nobody else has shot at that pilot since i shot the hell out of him, why can'nt i have the kill. if somebody else shoots one round into that plane well then that pilot gets the kill.
here's a good example: you go after a b17 at 30000ft, you shoot him up real good, his wing is gone, he's going down, but he shot you up as well and your going down, the fighter almost always goes down faster then the bomber, he gets the credit, you can be happy to know your hq will stay up a bit longer, i think both pilots should get credit for the kills they have each made. as for neither get getting credit for have been shot down, well one might be able to land his plane, its very simple, you shoot me down and i shoot you down, when i bail, explode, or crash, you get the credit, and when you bail, explode, or crash, i get the credit. if i bail first and you get the credit and then somebody else pings you, then they get the credit for shooting you down.
another example:
i have been in b26 or b17, a fighter shows up and we shoot it out, i take lots of damage but can still fly sorta, the fighter runs out of ammo and decides to fly away, i dont see any more fighters and manage to fly my shot up buff for several mins and put distance between my self and the fighter, i even try to get down and hope to land, but the damage is to much and i either explode or have to bail, the pilot that did all this damage to me should get credit, but does not, (and i have worked at keeping buff up long enough to have this happen) so a pilot shot the hell out of me and does not get the credit for the kill because i was able to keep the plane in tacked just long enough to rip him off a kill. in all fairness, i do beleive he should get the credit, but as it is, i will try to rip him off. so it is not just HO's that this happens, it happens in other situations as well.
and for Nash and Fariz, i appoligize for attacking you on your views of this, i did ask for everybody to comment on what they think, there for i am sorry, thanks for your comments is what i should have said.
blue skies all
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Originally posted by Nash:
Bloom, I have adsl and haven't really had that problem, but a squaddie of mine has cable and he's experienced what you mention a bunch of times. I think he was on something like Road Runner (?) which he's come to firmly beleive is *not* good to be using to fly AH with. I dunno.
As far as the way in which the host calculates HO deaths/damage.... like I said.. pure speculation on my part.
Odd.. I have ROADRUNNER Cable Modem and it runs mighty fine! MEEP MEEP! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Tell your friend to download the latest registry fix from the roadrunner site, it boosts perfmance 60% (whoohoo).
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I agree, if you put the most ammo in him, you should get the kill even after you have died. It was that way in the first Beta version, but we had no manuever kills. Then I think it changed when they changed the code to add manuever kills. I think it works this way, you die before you get the credit, and the server looks for the nearest enemy to reward the kill to, just as it does when you manuever someone into the ground. And sometimes the manuever kill thing doesn't work. I've seen many planes auger zooming down to kill me, with no kill message, and I have died this way many times myself only to see no kill awarded to anyone. Think HTC needs to do some adjusting to the kill coding.
ts
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Originally posted by tshred:
I agree, if you put the most ammo in him, you should get the kill even after you have died.
You can damage seriously a buff, get out of ammo and land to take off again. You climb again to get that buff and you see a mate terminating it. As reward, you have no kill neither assist. It seems that when you land, bail or get killed, your previous actions are completelly "erased". Perhaps this is ok when you are killed, but if you keep alive your actions should be recorded.
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:d