Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Furball on September 19, 2004, 01:21:10 PM
-
what do you think it will be?
Personally i think it will be the Tu-2.
We do not have a soviet bomber yet, apart from the IL-2 which can hardly be called that.
Fast, great bombload for a twin, decent defensive guns and good range make it a great MA bomber and good for mid-late war scenario's.
(http://normandie.niemen.free.fr/avions/tu2.jpg)
(http://utenti.lycos.it/AEREOFAN/images9/tu2.jpg)
-
I think only a few hundred Tu-2's were actually produced during the war. The definitive Soviet medium/light bomber was the Pe-2.
-
I think it will be exactly what I dont want it to be.....A B-24.
-
Originally posted by brady
I think it will be exactly what I dont want it to be.....A B-24.
:( exactly 100% correct.
-
I'lll put my money on the Pe-2.
Similar to the TU-2, more common, and (I think) a better performer.
-
Ah yes, the Pe-2. My favorite light bomber of the war.
It out-performed the Bf 110's, although it wasn't as heavily armed. It's just how a Soviet plane should be... Rugged, light (for its class), and crude, yet dependable.
I'm personally hoping that it's the Pe-2.
-
410 a bomber?
Otherwise prob a B-24
Tronsky
-
What about He-111 Bomber?! I was hoping that He-111 will be next.
-
Originally posted by Fruda
Ah yes, the Pe-2. My favorite light bomber of the war.
It out-performed the Bf 110's, although it wasn't as heavily armed. It's just how a Soviet plane should be... Rugged, light (for its class), and crude, yet dependable.
I'm personally hoping that it's the Pe-2.
They had a bunch of variants on the Pe-2 ... I forget 'em all ... but it was pretty versatile, on a par with the Ju-88. When it went into service Lend-Lease Hurri II's had to stay full throttle to keep up on escort.
That being said, I'll be very pleasantly and overwhelmingly surprised if the new bomber is a Pe-2.
-
It probably should be a Pe-2, but id much rather have, and this is what I honestly think we are getting, a B-24.
-
I have the feelin that it will be a B24.. Thats too bad, this plane will add nothing significant to the game that isnt covered by either B17 or Lancaster.. Just adds one more allied heavy bomber, and still leaves the Russians with no bomber, the Germans only with a 1940 bomber and the Japanese with a late war light bomber..
I'm sure the new model with AH2 technology will be great in many ways and I will enjoy taking it for a spin but I think would be dissapointed with a B24..
-
B25 would be more useful in the MA than the B24 ... much more variety in loadout and application.
-
From what I know and studied, the B-24 can do everything a B-25 can except take off from a carrier.
-
Originally posted by United
From what I know and studied, the B-24 can do everything a B-25 can except take off from a carrier.
There is no hard nosed B-24 version with twelve .50 caliber machine guns and there is no hard nosed B-24 version with a 75mm cannon in the nose.
-
The B25 served pretty much throughout the war in all theatres and in many roles. Everything from strategic bombing to base attacks (with para-frags).
-
B-25 would imo be as bad as the B-24, we have a B-26, why do we nead another US med. bomber presently.
-
Originally posted by brady
B-25 would imo be as bad as the B-24, we have a B-26, why do we nead another US med. bomber presently.
We don't - my point was that the B25 would be more useful in the MA. But since hardly anyone flies B17's or Lancs above 2000 feet anyway, I doubt a B24 would change much. Unless they model the special cow-catcher package.
-DoK
-
Personally think we need the He-111 and Pe-2.
-
Originally posted by Dowding
Personally think we need the He-111 and Pe-2.
Pe-2 would have much more survivability in the MA and would kind of fill the niche the Mosi had has a penetration bomber. But, I'll still be surprised if that's what gets added.
-
What are you talking about? The Il2 is the deadliest plane in the whole game.
-
IL2 is one of the best fighters in the game, but its not much of a bomber...
-
... what he said ... lousy payload and so slow you can't even call it "slow" without making it sound faster than it is.
-
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
... what he said ... lousy payload and so slow you can't even call it "slow" without making it sound faster than it is.
yup, as i said above, can hardly be classed as a bomber.
over 1,000 Tu2's in wartime service btw.
Pe-2 would be nice, but the way i see it is its just not uber enough for the MA.. maybe a Tu-2 with very small perk cost.
imagine it... drop your bombs, turn tail and go for the fighters with the 2 wing mounted 20mm's :D
-
I would love to see the TU-2 in the game but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.
-
Originally posted by Furball
imagine it... drop your bombs, turn tail and go for the fighters with the 2 wing mounted 20mm's :D
Not 20mm, the TU2 has the IL2s 23mm... :)
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Not 20mm, the TU2 has the IL2s 23mm... :)
wow... if we get it... it will be the perfect anti-vulch plane...
i'll do you a deal grun, you do the HO the vulcher routine that you currently do in an IL-2, i'll multicrew and get in the tailguns :D
-
Originally posted by Furball
yup, as i said above, can hardly be classed as a bomber.
over 1,000 Tu2's in wartime service btw.
...
I seem to recall only 500 produced before war's end.
-DoK
-
Originally posted by Karnak
There is no hard nosed B-24 version with twelve .50 caliber machine guns and there is no hard nosed B-24 version with a 75mm cannon in the nose.
I meant in a bombing aspect, but oh well. :D
As of now, i dont really care what it is, as long as theres a screenshot posted soon! :)
-
Throw the Italians a frickin' bone!
(http://www.aviation-history.com/savoia-marchetti/sm79-2.jpg)
-
Either the Pe-2 or the Tu-2 was not going to be modelled by HTC because of the lack of availability of internal photos. Might have changed, but I haven't seen anything that would indicate that.
-
You know its gonna be some extremely lame bomber cuz everyone is so siked out about it ooo its gonna be the b29 and for all we know its a new upgrade for the boston3. so dont get your hopes up. cuz there gonna be shattered for all we know:p
-
Originally posted by Dowding
Either the Pe-2 or the Tu-2 was not going to be modelled by HTC because of the lack of availability of internal photos. Might have changed, but I haven't seen anything that would indicate that.
Yeah ... thats kind of why I doubt it'd be a Pe-2 ... just hard to get data and pics.
I'll laugh my butt off if its the Hs129, though. That would be uber fun for killing GV's.
-
pe2 would be good..its fast(faster than a lot of fighters) good bomb load( like to see the engine necell bomb doors) it was a good dive bomber and lvl bomber..
pe8 heavy would also be welcome
i would rather see b25 before the b24....no doubting the 24 was a good bomber but its almost identical stats to b17 would make it a waste of good man hours..
:aok
-
Originally posted by Dowding
Either the Pe-2 or the Tu-2 was not going to be modelled by HTC because of the lack of availability of internal photos. Might have changed, but I haven't seen anything that would indicate that.
not many of the ah planes cockpits can be called very accurate
-
Selector, saying the B-24 is like the B-17 is saying the same thing as a B-25 is the same as a B-26. :D
-
Originally posted by Dowding
Either the Pe-2 or the Tu-2 was not going to be modelled by HTC because of the lack of availability of internal photos. Might have changed, but I haven't seen anything that would indicate that.
They are available now..............
http://www.airwar.ru/other/bibl/tu2man.zip
-
Originally posted by United
Selector, saying the B-24 is like the B-17 is saying the same thing as a B-25 is the same as a B-26. :D
Not so. It holds ONLY 2 1k bombs more than the b17. It flies a whopping 2 miles per hour faster. It flies only about 5k higher than the b17.
Why the hell should they waste time putting in a carbon copy when there are so many BADLY needed bombers in this game?
-
I think it will be a Swordfish. :D
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Why the hell should they waste time putting in a carbon copy when there are so many BADLY needed bombers in this game?
Because its so dayum sexy!
Actually, it will add a lot to scenarios, and will allow many more to be created and flown.
And really, if given the choice, what would you fly: A B-24 or a Pe-2?
-
I'd definately take a Pe-2...
-
Pe2 accurate and doesn't have to fly with Satillites to stay alive.
-
Originally posted by B17Skull12
Pe2 accurate and doesn't have to fly with Satillites to stay alive.
What does this mean?
Its accurate in bombing?
So are B-24s.
It doesnt have to fly with Satellites to say alive?
Read up on Ploesti and submarine hunting in the Pacific.
-
Argh! I hope HT models that damned Liberator just to be done with it and concentrate on the actual gaps that need fillin'. ;)
-
Originally posted by Arlo
Argh! I hope HT models that damned Liberator just to be done with it and concentrate on the actual gaps that need fillin'. ;)
:D
I have no problem with other bombers, but I really want that there Liberator.
-
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I seem to recall only 500 produced before war's end.
-DoK
Over 1000 of the total 2000 produced were produced prior to the end of the GPW.
The Tu2 never formed more than 9% of the total VVS bomber force which was dominated by the the Pe 2 and its variants.
Further the Tu2 was only used as a level bomber..........the dive bomber role left to the Pe2..
What you have here is the RL medium to low altitude level bomber.
Just as the Il2m3 was a "battle field" level attack bomber, the Tu2 operated in air space only just higher whilst the Pe2 was the pin point dive bomber with air brakes etc for many of its variants.
The problem then is that the Tu2 should be available in formations yet it has 2 x 20mm forward firing guns to generally abuse game play in the arena.........(jeez I sound like homer)
The Tu2 could carry up to 1350kg of mixed ordinance
the pe 2 could carry up to 1000 kg made up of 6 x 100kg internally (4 in the fuselage and 1 in each engine nacelle) plus upto 2 x 500Kg or 4 x 250 kg wing mounted bombs. If internal and wing capacities were maxed out then the ac was over weight.
AH options would be
6 x 100 internal
6 x 100 internal plus 10 x RS 132 Rockets
6 x 100 internal plus 4 x 100 external
4 x 250 external
2 x 500 external
-
OK ... 500 was just the number I recalled from years ago when last I was looking at this stuff.
-
Its probably going to be a large bomber. There hasnt been any new planes in a long time. I think all 3 new vehicles are going to be MA badasses, KI-84 is already leaning in that direction.
-
1) I don't think it had rockets. That was the Pe3 bis.
2) It could have 2x 500 AND 2x 250, not just 4x 250. I know this because there are sources that show 2 large eggs underneath wings and 2 smaller eggs. As well as I have a model built up as such (so it MUST have happened, somewhere, somehow).
3) Both the TU2 adn PE2 had 2,200lb payloads. Well, at LEAST 2,200 (1000kg). 1 source says the Tu2 had 6614lb (3000kg) but all my sources say Pe2 had 2200lb load
4) The Pe-2 had 4 7.62mm forward firing guns and 2 12.7mm defensive guns (dorsal/ventral). Any respective fighter variants don't count, as they are not Pe2s, but I believe Pe3s. The BOMBER (which this will be, if chosen) would have the BOMBER armament, NOT the fighter (thus no 2x20mm and no rockets).
5) The TU2 had 2x20mm forward firing guns (r 2x23mm, depending on setup) and 3x 12.7mm defensive guns. Perhaps you were thinking of that?
Ugh.. much as I want the Pe2, the initial climb speed was 1430 feet (shudder). Barely better than SBD or Stuka.
-
The Pe-2 had 4 7.62mm forward firing guns and 2 12.7mm defensive guns (dorsal/ventral).
Most Pe-2 had 1x12.7mm and 1x7.62mm forward-firing in the nose(only the original fighter version PB-100 had 4x7.62mm). Also some Pe-2 had an extra 7.62mm in the rear fuselage which could be fired on either side through the side window.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
1) I don't think it had rockets. That was the Pe3 bis.
Edit in itals
Have two sources on the rockets...........I suppose they could have fed off each other .........rockets said to be added circa 43 (post air brakes ?) will advise model later but it was a Pe2 variant.
from September 41 onwards plant 22 offerred this option but it was unpopular as the launch rails slowed the top speed by approx 18 mph which was reduced a further 10 with rockets loaded
It was said the rocket salvo gave it the fire power of a light [Russian] cruiser.
Did some one claim the Pe2 bomber to have 2 x 20mm?
2 x 23mm YVA (on the Tu-2) was not put into full production AFAIK?
Same two sources re the 4 x 250 kg. Infact the 2nd source states an option for bombs on the outer wings. so its not categorical std was 4 FAB100 bombs on the inner wings (two each)
I think the only one with any performance/ fire power that the MA would like would be the Pe 2 M ? but this was very late war. this did not get past a prototype
However that rocket salvo sounds like fun..........
-
Originally posted by Arlo
Throw the Italians a frickin' bone!
(http://www.aviation-history.com/savoia-marchetti/sm79-2.jpg)
ARF !!!!! ARF !!!!!
WOOF !!!
:)
-
Originally posted by justin_g
Most Pe-2 had 1x12.7mm and 1x7.62mm forward-firing in the nose(only the original fighter version PB-100 had 4x7.62mm). Also some Pe-2 had an extra 7.62mm in the rear fuselage which could be fired on either side through the side window.
Those were quickly removed in the field, and often the side windows were painted over. They did this to not only save weight, but the windows and arc of the guns was narrow and not very helpful. Not to mention they were all operated by 1 person (which can be trying, I bet). I would guess that any Pe2 in AH2 would have these omitted (hell, we don't even have the ventral gun on the boston/havoc)
-
Originally posted by Naso
ARF !!!!! ARF !!!!!
WOOF !!!
:)
If we want a slow, lumbering, obsolete bomber that carries 2x torpedos, we'll just use the Ju88A4, which.. omg! Is already in the game! Wow! What a shock!
:lol
-
Originally posted by Krusty
If we want a slow, lumbering, obsolete bomber that carries 2x torpedos, we'll just use the Ju88A4, which.. omg! Is already in the game! Wow! What a shock!
:lol
You're not gonna say we need to model something for the MA, are ya? (heh heh heh) :D
-
How about something with 1 torpedo and rockets and quad Hizookas in the nose?
Opps, I said it...I said it again....
-
I predict much gnashing of teeth any second now :)
Charon
-
Yeah ... another dive bomber ... (sigh) :D
-
well its official, its B24j i dont understand why the B24, i mean- great we have a new bomber and all that, but we allready have the B17 which is very close to the 24, and i can think of like 10 more "urgent" bombers to add to AH.
well, have fun buff dweebs :)
-
I still have faith that someday, the worst of this (heavy bomber dive bombing, low alt carpet bombing) will be addressed. Until then, at least you can pretend you're just encountering another Polesti raid. Hell, it even "adds" realism in that aspect :)
Charon
-
i can think of like 10 more "urgent" bombers to add to AH.
I agree, the B-17 is similar, and there are some gaping holes to be filled where the CT and scenarios are concerned. But frankly, for the MA many of the most "wanted" and useful niche fillers would be hanger queens. Some, like the TU2, obviously wouldn't. So it comes down to MA or CT with this release, though the Ki-84 scores for both.
For its own merits, B-24 was the most produced, heavily used in four theaters, MA capable and somewhat unique to the gaming genre. Personally, I was hoping for the B-29 or TU-2 (or even the exotic but historically unimportant He-177). But, overall the B-24 is not bad.
Charon
-
can someone post technical specs of the B24J vrs our B17 (F moddel ? )
-
I made a post a little while ago that grew to have just about everything you need to know about them.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122443&highlight=B24+Why+we+need+it
-
Basically identical... could fly about 5k higher, 1 mile faster per hour, operationally carried 2k more than B17 (big whoop) and had the exact same armament, only with the flex wing and the way the entire fuselage warped and bucked at max alt it was easy to destroy and hard to maintain level flight.