Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TexMurphy on September 20, 2004, 04:23:20 AM
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Ive been looking at some other online WW2 sims. Not to move to them but to check em out to see what they do well. Its always important to learn from others, both good things and mistakes.
While no game provides the flying experience of AH one of them has a very interesting setup.
A 5 nation setup.
Currently it has been discussed alot if maybe increasing the number of nations wouldnt be a good idea. Personally I do think so since Ive not really seen 3 nation setup work well in any game even though its the most common setup. With 3 nation setup its either of the following two options that always applies:
A) Biggest nation beats up two smaller nations.
B) Two smaller nations work together vs the bigger nation and gank it all day long. This creates a virtual 2 nation setup.
Both imho is pretty booring. Especially after one has seen it in so many games.
So I do think the 5 nation setup could be really interesting and well worth a shot.
The way I would see this work in AH is:
Nations:
*USA
*GBR
*GER+Italy
*Russia
*Japan
Each nation files its own planes except the C47 which is available for all nations. Planes from all periods of time are available.
Currently Russia is the only nation without a bomber but I can bet my moma on the undisclosed bomber beeing Russian. (Since ToD will be nation based russia needs a bomber ASAP).
All ground units are available to all countries.
The maps are a mix of maps, fantasy and RL maps just like in the MA.
Note that there is no alliance setup. This is NOT Axis vs Allies but each nation on its own vs the others.
One of the other games out there has basicly this setup and it works really well and is alot of fun.
Also note that Im NOT saying to do this on MA but rather add a new arena with this setup.
At least for me this would be amazing fun and something Id enjoy much much more then the current MA.
Tex
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Neat idea:aok
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We want our Finland!!!
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Originally posted by mipoikel
We want our Finland!!!
it's included in the Russian side
I never wrote that :)
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I imagine the USA would steamroll every other country due to their superior JABO's.
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Originally posted by straffo
it's included in the Russian side
I never wrote that :)
grrrrrrrrrrrrrr :mad:
:aok :D
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So I do think the 5 nation setup could be really interesting and well worth a shot.
I would think, the problem is that when there are not enough people on to support 5 countries, the fights would be even harder to find.
Imagine - You belong to one of the countries with the lowest numbers, and the two countries with higher numbers are fighting it out on a piece of the map that you don't have access to, so now what. You switch to one of the other countries, you fly around hoping something is going to happen on your part of the map.
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Two smaller nations work together vs the bigger nation and gank it all day long. This creates a virtual 2 nation setup.
:confused:
I think its in MA allways so that when one country gets smaller than the other two, then the two biger nations seems to "work together" to make the third even smaller.
I do not belive to much in 2 nations "working together" as it seem almost impossible to find a mission in ONE country :rofl
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Originally posted by mars01
I would think, the problem is that when there are not enough people on to support 5 countries, the fights would be even harder to find.
There really isnt any difference if you have 3 nations on a 100 player base or 5 nations IF the map is of the same size and overall number of bases is the same.
Each nations initial territory would be a smaller then with 3 nations which means that the density of players within each nations air space is the same. What can draw down the size of the engagments is that players will be a bit more spread around the map. Though since the country area is smaller you will still see both furballs and smaller engagements (1v1s-5v5s).
Yes US has JABO advantage over the other 4 nations but each nation will have to work out its own best tactics depending on what planes it has. I think initially the US will see a number advantage simply because the majority of players here are from the US. But there are alot of players here who enjoy flying German, English, Russian and Jap planes.
From what I read both on these forums and from ingame chat quite a few players think MA is starting to get stale. Most players dont want to play CT because its so restricted on planes. This arena would give something new and interesting while still having all planes available in it, note in it, and its not as stale as a 2 alliance setup (Axis vs Allies).
Further what this will give is valuable pre TOD ballance experience for HTC as it will match the countries against each other. Since TOD will be setup in nation vs nation scenarios rather then bish/knight/rook setup.
From what I see I dont see any real disadvantage in any nations arsenal when it comes to pure fighter power. The two "thinner" line ups, russia and japan, both have VERY good fighters. Forces of LA5, LA7 and Yaks can go up against anything in game. Same goes for the Japs with N1Ks, the up comming Ki-84s and Zekke´s.
When it comes to Bomber and Jabo the US does have an advantage, especially on the Russians. Though if I predict it right the new bomber will be russian which MIGHT narrow it down a bit. But still I dont see any problem to have a underdog side.
I for one would be banging on the door of the Russian side the day the new arena would open.
Tex
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I'd like AH to be as suggested (or better 2 countries, alles VS axis) together with the "rolling plane set".
On the other hand I'm pretty sure HTC will never implement these improvements due to the predictable "our-planes-are-undermodelled/enemy-planes-are-overmodelled" endless whining, which would take place for sure under these circumstances.
Best regards
Promet
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Originally posted by 13Promet
I'm pretty sure HTC will never implement these improvements due to the predictable "our-planes-are-undermodelled/enemy-planes-are-overmodelled" endless whining, which would take place for sure under these circumstances.
This is why Im sudgesting this as a new arena and not as an alteration to the MA.
If this is set up as an extra arena then the asnwer can always be "STFU and go to MA". ;)
Tex
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How about a three nation, six airforce setup?
Two independant airforces in each of the countries, using half of the pilots and fields, stationed at one front while the other airforce is stationed at the other front?
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Every country would have its 'Axis' and 'Allied' airforces fighting their opposites from another country... :)
I just wonder if it would end up in rotating fronts... Numerously superior Allied Pony, La-7, Spit hordes advancing in each country :confused:
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The idea I pointed out already happens. When the Rooks and Bish are fighting it out and neither are really paying attention to the knights things get pretty boring for the knights. I think this would just be exasperated with more countries.
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maybe then we might see the later war RAF rides un-perked.
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Originally posted by mars01
The idea I pointed out already happens. When the Rooks and Bish are fighting it out and neither are really paying attention to the knights things get pretty boring for the knights. I think this would just be exasperated with more countries.
On the contrary. With more countries the chance of this happening would be less. Rather if this happens the effects of it would be less significant.
Ofcourse this depends highly on how the countries divide the map. If the countries are placed in horisontal/vertical lines then it would happen. The two countries with only one borded would be ignored and the center one ganked from two sides.
But as long as the countries are placed like they are today in pizza slize layout each contry will always have two borders.
Its impossible for more then 1 country to be ignored with such a layout. If 1 out of 5 countries is temporarily ignored its less of a impact then if 1 of 3.
Why only one? Well because if 2 countries gang up on 1 country then 2 neighbours will ALWAYS be without a fight. This means they will fight each other.
Tex
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Russia could have lend-lease Boston's ... and P-40's and Hurri II's for that matter giving them some Jabo capabiliy.
This could require a brand new terrain to be built, though, as most of the current maps are triangular layouts.
-DoK
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Although I wouldn't mind a rolling planeset or something of the like, I wouldn't play any game where I had to decide which 10-12 out of 70 choices I'd use for any given amount of time.
I'd get burnt out too quick only flying one country's rides.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Russia could have lend-lease Boston's ... and P-40's and Hurri II's for that matter giving them some Jabo capabiliy.
This could require a brand new terrain to be built, though, as most of the current maps are triangular layouts.
-DoK
Yeah they could. Though Im pretty sure that part of the "get to a stage where we can start working on TOD" includes adding JABO, Bomber and Goone capability to all the nations.
Though yeah in the meantime it could be done.
Tex
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I can see it now. Everyone will fly for Russia in LA-7s. Then russia will be renamed La-La Land.
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One game already does that and its called Fighter Ace and what used to happen in F! 2.xx is exactly like you said. Although those "truces" lasted a little less than 1-2 hours they were fun and a pain since the auto gunners on the bombers would shoot at any unfriendly in the vicinty it got pretty wild if you had a mixed bag escorting a bomber flight over to GB land from Japanese and US territory. Its a novel idea but not one that I think would work in AH. If you break apart the planeset for each nation you will find that countries like Japan and Russia will be seriously limited and its to early in the AH2 ball game to have multiple new aircraft being added into the game.