Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Preon1 on September 20, 2004, 07:38:22 PM
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This was such a powerfully delivered speech, I'm surprised it hasn't gotten more play on the news. In a short search, I could only find the text on the BBC. Personally, I'd like it to be a downloadable clip because it's the first time Kerry actually delivers an arguement against George Bush's strength: the war on terror. Don't get me wrong, I disagree with many of his conclusions and it hasn't swayed my vote from Bush, but it'd be a shame if the only attention it got was a splintered series of sound bites.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3674838.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3674838.stm)
I've edited out the titles and extracts that are highlighted in the article, if you come across quotes in the speech that are duplicated or out of order, that was probably my fault.
John Kerry, 20 Sept 2004, New York University
In fighting the war on terrorism, my principles are straightforward.
The terrorists are beyond reason. We must destroy them.
As president, I will do whatever it takes, as long as it takes, to defeat our enemies. But billions of people around the world yearning for a better life are open to America's ideals.
We must reach them.
To win, America must be strong. And America must be smart.
The greatest threat we face is the possibility al-Qaeda or other terrorists will get their hands on a nuclear weapon.
To prevent that from happening, we must call on the totality of America's strength.
Strong alliances, to help us stop the world's most lethal weapons from falling into the most dangerous hands.
A powerful military, transformed to meet the new threats of terrorism and the spread of weapons of mass destruction.
And all of America's power - our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, the appeal of our values - each of which is critical to making America more secure and preventing a new generation of terrorists from emerging.
National security is a central issue in this campaign.
We owe it to the American people to have a real debate about the choices President Bush has made, and the choices I would make, to fight and win the war on terror.
That means we must have a great honest national debate on Iraq.
The president claims it is the centrepiece of his war on terror.
In fact, Iraq was a profound diversion from that war and the battle against our greatest enemy, Osama bin Laden and the terrorists.
Invading Iraq has created a crisis of historic proportions and, if we do not change course, there is the prospect of a war with no end in sight.
This month, we passed a cruel milestone: more than 1,000 Americans lost in Iraq.
Their sacrifice reminds us that Iraq remains, overwhelmingly, an American burden.
Nearly 90% of the troops - and nearly 90% of the casualties - are American.
Despite the President's claims, this is not a grand coalition.
Our troops have served with extraordinary bravery, skill and resolve.
Their service humbles all of us.
When I speak to them, when I look into the eyes of their families, I know this: we owe them the truth about what we have asked them to do, and what is still to be done.
In June, the President declared, "The Iraqi people have their country back."
Just last week, he told us: "This country is headed toward democracy... Freedom is on the march."
But the administration's own official intelligence estimate, given to the president last July, tells a very different story.
According to press reports, the intelligence estimate totally contradicts what the president is saying to the American people.
So do the facts on the ground.
Security is deteriorating, for us and for the Iraqis.
Forty-two Americans died in Iraq in June - the month before the handover.
But 54 died in July, 66 in August, and already 54 halfway through September.
And more than 1,100 Americans were wounded in August - more than in any other month since the invasion.
We are fighting a growing insurgency in an ever-widening war zone.
In March, insurgents attacked our forces 700 times. In August, they attacked 2,700 times - a 400% increase.
Falluja, Ramadi, Samara... even parts of Baghdad are now no-go zones, breeding grounds for terrorists who are free to plot and launch attacks against our soldiers.
The radical Shia cleric, Moqtada al-Sadr, who's accused of complicity in the murder of Americans, holds more sway in the suburbs of Baghdad.
Violence against Iraqis, from bombings to kidnappings to intimidation, is on the rise.
Basic living conditions are also deteriorating.
Residents of Baghdad are suffering electricity blackouts lasting up to 14 hours a day.
Raw sewage fills the streets, rising above the hubcaps of our Humvees.
Children wade through garbage on their way to school.
Unemployment is over 50%.
Insurgents are able to find plenty of people willing to take $150 for tossing grenades at passing US convoys.
Yes, there has been some progress, thanks to the extraordinary efforts of our soldiers and civilians in Iraq.
Schools, shops and hospitals have been opened. In parts of Iraq, normalcy actually prevails.
But most Iraqis have lost faith in our ability to deliver meaningful improvements to their lives. So they're sitting on the fence instead of siding with us against the insurgents.
That is the truth.
The truth that the commander-in-chief owes to our troops and the American people.
It is never easy to discuss what has gone wrong while our troops are in constant danger.
But it's essential if we want to correct our course and do what's right for our troops instead of repeating the same mistakes over and over again...
Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell. But that was not, in itself, a reason to go to war.
The satisfaction we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: we have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure.
The president has said that he "miscalculated" in Iraq and that it was a "catastrophic success".
In fact, the president has made a series of catastrophic decisions from the beginning in Iraq.
At every fork in the road, he has taken the wrong turn and led us in the wrong direction.
The first and most fundamental mistake was the President's failure to tell the truth to the American people.
He failed to tell the truth about the rationale for going to war. And he failed to tell the truth about the burden this war would impose on our soldiers and our citizens.
By one count, the President offered 23 different rationales for this war.
If his purpose was to confuse and mislead the American people, he succeeded.
His two main rationales - weapons of mass destruction and the al-Qaeda/11 September connection - have been proved false by the president's own weapons inspectors and by the 9/11 Commission.
Just last week, Secretary of State Powell acknowledged the facts.
Only Vice-President Cheney still insists that the earth is flat.
The President also failed to level with the American people about what it would take to prevail in Iraq.
He didn't tell us that well over 100,000 troops would be needed, for years, not months.
He didn't tell us that he wouldn't take the time to assemble a broad and strong coalition of allies.
He didn't tell us that the cost would exceed $200bn.
He didn't tell us that even after paying such a heavy price, success was far from assured.
And America will pay an even heavier price for the president's lack of candour.
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Here's the rest:
At home, the American people are less likely to trust this administration if it needs to summon their support to meet real and pressing threats to our security.
Abroad, other countries will be reluctant to follow America when we seek to rally them against a common menace - as they are today.
Our credibility in the world has plummeted...
This president's failure to tell the truth to us before the war has been exceeded by fundamental errors of judgment during and after the war.
The president now admits to "miscalculations" in Iraq.
That is one of the greatest understatements in recent American history.
His were not the equivalent of accounting errors. They were colossal failures of judgment, and judgment is what we look for in a president.
This is all the more stunning because we're not talking about 20/20 hindsight.
Before the war, before he chose to go to war, bi-partisan Congressional hearings, major outside studies and even some in the administration itself predicted virtually every problem we now face in Iraq.
This president was in denial.
He hitched his wagon to the ideologues who surround him, filtering out those who disagreed, including leaders of his own party and the uniformed military.
The result is a long litany of misjudgements with terrible consequences...
In Iraq, this administration has consistently over-promised and under-performed.
This policy has been plagued by a lack of planning, an absence of candour, arrogance and outright incompetence.
And the president has held no one accountable, including himself.
In fact, the only officials who lost their jobs over Iraq were the ones who told the truth.
General Shinseki said it would take several hundred thousand troops to secure Iraq. He was retired.
Economic adviser Larry Lindsey said that Iraq would cost as much as $200bn. He was fired...
After the successful entry into Baghdad, George Bush was offered help from the UN - and he rejected it...
Can anyone seriously say this President has handled Iraq in a way that makes us stronger in the war on terrorism?
By any measure, the answer is no.
Nuclear dangers have mounted across the globe. The international terrorist club has expanded. Radicalism in the Middle East is on the rise.
We have divided our friends and united our enemies. And our standing in the world is at an all-time low...
The president's policy in Iraq precipitated the very problem he said he was trying to prevent.
Secretary of State Powell admits that Iraq was not a magnet for international terrorists before the war. Now it is, and they are operating against our troops.
Iraq is becoming a sanctuary for a new generation of terrorists who someday could hit the United States...
Two years ago, Congress was right to give the President the authority to use force to hold Saddam Hussein accountable.
This president - any President - would have needed the threat of force to act effectively. This president misused that authority...
The president rushed to war without letting the weapons inspectors finish their work.
He went without a broad and deep coalition of allies.
He acted without making sure our troops had enough body armour.
And he plunged ahead without understanding or preparing for the consequences of the post-war. None of which I would have done.
Yet today, President Bush tells us that he would do everything all over again, the same way. How can he possibly be serious?
Is he really saying that if we knew there were no imminent threat, no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to al-Qaeda, the United States should have invaded Iraq?
My answer is no, because a commander-in-chief's first responsibility is to make a wise and responsible decision to keep America safe...
We need to turn the page and make a fresh start in Iraq.
First, the president has to get the promised international support so our men and women in uniform don't have to go it alone. It is late; the president must respond by moving this week to gain and regain international support.
Last spring, after too many months of resistance and delay, the president finally went back to the UN which passed Resolution 1546. It was the right thing to do but it was late.
That resolution calls on UN members to help in Iraq by providing troops, trainers for Iraq's security forces, a special brigade to protect the UN mission, more financial assistance and real debt relief.
Three months later, not a single country has answered that call. And the president acts as if it doesn't matter.
And of the $13bn previously pledged to Iraq by other countries, only $1.2bn has been delivered.
The president should convene a summit meeting of the world's major powers and Iraq's neighbours, this week, in New York, where many leaders will attend the UN General Assembly.
He should insist that they make good on that UN resolution. He should offer potential troop contributors specific, but critical roles, in training Iraqi security personnel and securing Iraq's borders.
He should give other countries a stake in Iraq's future by encouraging them to help develop Iraq's oil resources and by letting them bid on contracts instead of locking them out of the reconstruction process...
Second, the president must get serious about training Iraqi security forces.
Last February, Secretary Rumsfeld claimed that more than 210,000 Iraqis were in uniform.
Two weeks ago, he admitted that claim was exaggerated by more than 50%. Iraq, he said, now has 95,000 trained security forces.
But guess what? Neither number bears any relationship to the truth. For example, just 5,000 Iraqi soldiers have been fully trained, by the administration's own minimal standards. And of the 35,000 police now in uniform, not one has completed a 24-week field-training program.
Is it any wonder that Iraqi security forces can't stop the insurgency or provide basic law and order?...
Third, the president must carry out a reconstruction plan that finally brings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people...
Now, the president should look at the whole reconstruction package, draw up a list of high-visibility, quick-impact projects and cut through the red tape.
He should use more Iraqi contractors and workers, instead of big corporations like Halliburton.
He should stop paying companies under investigation for fraud or corruption. And he should fire the civilians in the Pentagon responsible for mismanaging the reconstruction effort.
Fourth, the president must take immediate, urgent, essential steps to guarantee the promised elections can be held next year...
If the President would move in this direction, if he would bring in more help from other countries to provide resources and forces, train the Iraqis to provide their own security, develop a reconstruction plan that brings real benefits to the Iraqi people and take the steps necessary to hold credible elections next year, we could begin to withdraw US forces starting next summer and realistically aim to bring all our troops home within the next four years.
This is what has to be done. This is what I would do as president today.
But we cannot afford to wait until January. President Bush owes it to the American people to tell the truth and put Iraq on the right track. Even more, he owes it to our troops and their families, whose sacrifice is a testament to the best of America.
The principles that should guide American policy in Iraq now and in the future are clear: We must make Iraq the world's responsibility, because the world has a stake in the outcome and others should share the burden...
At every critical juncture in Iraq, and in the war on terrorism, the president has made the wrong choice. I have a plan to make America stronger.
The president often says that in a post-9/11 world, we can't hesitate to act. I agree. But we should not act just for the sake of acting. I believe we have to act wisely and responsibly.
George Bush has no strategy for Iraq. I do.
George Bush has not told the truth to the American people about why we went to war and how the war is going. I have and I will continue to do so...
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:rofl Oh John Kerry cracks me up.
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Kerry pre-today: Domestic issues matter.
Kerry post-today: Domestic issues don't matter during a war.
Looking at the polls, not a difficult conclusion to make.
For sure, Bush not only baked the getting into the Iraq war, but the war itself is now also baked.
Fahget defining "character" via 'Nam (thank god)... Because you can define it circa 2002. Much more relevant, and much, much more damning.
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I agree with some of that.
But it's time for MNF, I'm out.
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Yes lets define Kerry's character circa 2002..
Can you say, FLIP!
Do I have a, FLOP!
Whats that, FLIP!
Come again, FLOP!
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Well-written speech.
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Grun said: nothing.
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My issue with Kerry (Other than the fact that he is an elitest, liberal Yankee), is that he, like Clinton, is led by polling data and advisors, not any inherent beliefs. Today he makes a good speech, tomorrow, to a different audiance, he makes a speech diametrically opposite.
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Yeah Liz - politics = bad. Ooohkay welcome to the working week.
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Originally posted by Nash
Grun said: nothing.
Yea Nash do define Kerry's character 2002 and on... What was his character driven stance(s) on Iraq?
Then define the character of a man who accomplisded nearly nothing in his 20 year senate career...
And no, saying that Kerry is your soulmate because your minds are so alike doesnt count..
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I can't wait for the debates.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I can't wait for the debates.
Me too, that's gonna rule.
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Originally posted by Nash
Me too, that's gonna rule.
Will the debates win it for Kerry?
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It will have to. Matters just that much. Sad that it does, but it does. Everything's riding on them. This will be the most important 3 hrs evah on TV evah.
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Actually I find that speech to be loaded with hindsight critiques.
Most of it he blames bush for judgement errors and bases it on the actual figures.
That alone shrugs off any validity the rest of his speech has for me.
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Originally posted by OIO
Most of it he blames bush for judgement errors and bases it on the actual figures.
That alone shrugs off any validity the rest of his speech has for me.
Lets break that down.
1st: "Most of it he blames bush for judgement errors and bases it on the actual figures."
No WAY! He blames Bush based on actual figures??!!
2nd) This reliance/use of actual figures makes you dismiss the validity of his speech.
woot...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes lets define Kerry's character circa 2002..
Can you say, FLIP!
Do I have a, FLOP!
Whats that, FLIP!
Come again, FLOP!
OK my friend Grun:) I repeat they are both flip floppers.
The Bush we know and love
. Social Security Surplus
BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]
...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]
2. Patient's Right to Sue
GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects." [Salon, 2/7/01]
...CANDIDATE BUSH PRAISES TEXAS PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas." [Governor Bush, 10/17/00]
...PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION ARGUES AGAINST RIGHT TO SUE "To let two Texas consumers, Juan Davila and Ruby R. Calad, sue their managed-care companies for wrongful denials of medical benefits ‘would be to completely undermine' federal law regulating employee benefits, Assistant Solicitor General James A. Feldman said at oral argument March 23. Moreover, the administration's brief attacked the policy rationale for Texas's law, which is similar to statutes on the books in nine other states." [Washington Post, 4/5/04]
3. Tobacco Buyout
BUSH SUPPORTS CURRENT TOBACCO FARMERS' QUOTA SYSTEM... "They've got the quota system in place -- the allotment system -- and I don't think that needs to be changed." [President Bush, 5/04]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL SUPPORT FEDERAL BUYOUT OF TOBACCO QUOTAS "The administration is open to a buyout." [White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo, 6/18/04]
4. North Korea
BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach." [President's Statement, 11/15/02]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFERS NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM"Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 6/23/04]
5. Abortion
BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question." [The Nation, 6/15/00, quoting the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal, 5/78]
...BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life." [Governor Bush, 10/3/00]
6. OPEC
BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES... "What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]
...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]
7. Iraq Funding
BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004... "We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]
...BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 "I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops." [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]
8. Condoleeza Rice Testimony
BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'... "Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference." [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]
...BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: "Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony." [President Bush, 3/30/04]
9. Science
BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]
...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [Union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]
10. Ahmed Chalabi
BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]
...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE "U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]
11. Department of Homeland Security
BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]
12. Weapons of Mass Destruction
BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]
...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]
13. Free Trade
BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]
14. Osama Bin Laden
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]
...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."[President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes lets define Kerry's character circa 2002..
Can you say, FLIP!
Do I have a, FLOP!
Whats that, FLIP!
Come again, FLOP!
15. The Environment
BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]
...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]
16. WMD Commission
BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]
...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]
17. Creation of the 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]
18. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission
BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]
...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]
19. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony
BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]
...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]
20. Gay Marriage
BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]
...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]
21. Nation Building
BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]
...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]
22. Saddam/al Qaeda Link
BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]
...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]
23. U.N. Resolution
BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]
...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]
24. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict
BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]
...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]
25. Campaign Finance
BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]
...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]
26. 527s
Bush opposes restrictions on 527s: "I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising [in McCain Feingold], which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import." [President Bush, 3/27/02]
…Bush says 527s bad for system: "I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it…I think they're bad for the system. That's why I signed the bill, McCain-Feingold." [President Bush, 8/23/04]
27. Medical Records
Bush says medical records must remain private: "I believe that we must protect…the right of every American to have confidence that his or her personal medical records will remain private." [President Bush, 4/12/01]
…Bush says patients' histories are not confidntial: The Justice Department…asserts that patients "no longer possess a reasonable expectation that their histories will remain completely confidential." [BusinessWeek, 4/30/04]
28. Timelines For Dictators
Bush sets timeline for Saddam: "If Iraq does not accept the terms within a week of passage or fails to disclose required information within 30 days, the resolution authorizes 'all necessary means' to force compliance--in other words, a military attack." [LA Times, 10/3/02]
…Bush says he's against timelines: "I don't think you give timelines to dictators." [President Bush, 8/27/04]
29. The Great Lakes
Bush wants to divert great lakes: "Even though experts say 'diverting any water from the Great Lakes region sets a bad precedent' Bush 'said he wants to talk to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien about piping water to parched states in the west and southwest.'– [AP, 7/19/01]
Bush says he'll never divert Great Lakes: "We've got to use our resources wisely, like water. It starts with keeping the Great Lakes water in the Great Lakes Basin...My position is clear: We're never going to allow diversion of Great Lakes water." [President Bush, 8/16/04]
30. Winning The War On Terror
Bush claims he can win the war on terror: "One of the interesting things people ask me, now that we're asking questions, is, can you ever win the war on terror? Of course, you can." [President Bush, 4/13/04]
…Bush says war on terror is unwinnable: "I don't think you can win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/30/04]
…Bush says he will win the war on terror: "Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/31/04]
__________________
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NO MO RIP 'N PASTES PLEASE EVAR SAY IT IN YOUR OWN WORDS PLEASE THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.
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NO MORE CAPS TOO, POO FACE!
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i don't know what you are talking about
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i know
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So where were we? - I forget - lets rumble!
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I think he means to say that your face is like poo!
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Originally posted by SOB
I think he means to say that your face is like poo!
This is an outrage.
This is slander, pure and simple.
But most importantly, this really hurts my feelings. I am human, afterall. I *feel* things... Sure, I have my problems - but you are not helping.
I just want to love... Please allow me this.
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Originally posted by SOB
I think he means to say that your face is like poo!
I think what I was saying is that his face consisted of poo. I hope this doesn't take the thread off topic though.
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Off topic? Oh no.... no... Poo and a Kerry speech is dead bang on.
You watch while this thread lives while others drop like flies.
Not saying I disagree with the turn, because I'm all for it...
Just sayin' that thars nothing to worry about. A kerry bashin' thread seems to be the only place I can get cover nowadays.
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Silat, thank you for that post.
OIO, we've all misstated at one point or another. But I can't figure out what you must've been intending. Come again?
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Silat, sadly for you nobody cares about what you posted.. :)
Kerry has the flip flop tag aqnd that sticks..
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Silat, sadly for you nobody cares about what you posted.. :)
I'm bettting nobody even read what he posted. Pasting a bunch of text a mile long = the geyness
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No Grun Choo have teh flip and flop! Choo do! Flipper flopper!
1st you flip and then all of a sudden you flop!
It's unREAL! Or wait - then it's REAL!!!
(cheh dude - eat it up, then regurgitate, and pretend like you actually get it.)
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the" SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS " has ALWAYS been INVESTED in interest bearing GOVT BONDS.
so no one has stolen the" SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS ", it is there gathering interest.
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Originally posted by Nash
No Grun Choo have teh flip and flop! Choo do! Flipper flopper!
1st you flip and then all of a sudden you flop!
It's unREAL! Or wait - then it's REAL!!!
(cheh dude - eat it up, then regurgitate, and pretend like you actually get it.)
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Groinzy, why you flip before you flop? Groinzy teh Flipper Flopper!
Oboe, Nash and I find his post interesting. Now....time for teh Flop. Flop Groinzy, Flop!
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John9001, did you get hit in the head by hurricane driven coconut recently?
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Gawd knows... I don't like Bush... but... FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/).
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Hmm maybe I used the wrong word. English is not my 1st language.
Hindsight is not the word to use to describe 'looking back at what already happened and making believe that if it was you then and there you wouldve made a different decision because NOW you know the results of that decision" ?
Kerry is claiming he wouldve not done the bad decisions he claims bush did back then because he now knows the results of it.
Its ok to confront someone with the results of their decisions, even rub their noses in it.
But to claim that he wouldve done a much better job at it only because now he has the benefit of knowing the effects of such decisions is just..well, lets just say that for me that shows me a very ugly side of Kerry's character, one that is most definetely not what I would look for in a leader. Inspires no trust or respect or credibility to his actions and motives.
Bush in my view has a much better character as a leader. More importantly, he's a leader that takes action when its needed and not when others think its needed.
Kerry has as good as stated that if it was him in the chief's chair instead of bush , saddam would still be in charge of iraq, al-queda would still be in afghanistan, the UN wouldve still be debating how to word their next toothless resolution, etc etc.
Kerry wouldve turned the US into another France.
brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :eek:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes lets define Kerry's character circa 2002..
Can you say, FLIP!
Do I have a, FLOP!
Whats that, FLIP!
Come again, FLOP!
What's wrong in having an opportunist as president ?
At least in the long run he will be always right :p
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Originally posted by straffo
What's wrong in having an opportunist as president ?
At least in the long run he will be always right :p
Are you saying that Kerry =
(http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWpetainP.jpg)
?????
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Originally posted by oboe
Silat, thank you for that post.
OIO, we've all misstated at one point or another. But I can't figure out what you must've been intending. Come again?
Just countering Gruns constant Kerry flip flop statements. They both flip and flop. So far Bushs flips and flops have affected our country the most as he is in the hot seat.
:cool:
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Are you saying that Kerry =
(http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWpetainP.jpg)
?????
ho no ... Kerry is not senile ... yet ...
Plus I don't think Pétain was right in the long :)
well I think :)
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Originally posted by NUKE
I'm bettting nobody even read what he posted. Pasting a bunch of text a mile long = the geyness
Typical and sad:(
Its the facts. Bush has flipped. And he has flopped. Hopefully when and if he gets reelected he can fix the mess he has made.
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Originally posted by straffo
ho no ... Kerry is not senile ... yet ...
well I think :)
:rofl
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The thing about this speech is that we probably won't see anything like it again in this campaign. Ofcourse, many of the arguements made will filter into his stump speech, but if past speeches are any indication, these words were not his. This speech was prepared by a new writer and Kerry read it word for word. This doesn't strike me as something Kerry would be comfortable doing very often, and there isn't time enough before the election to refine his message again. I imagine that once he gets back into the routine of speaking from the heart, he will resume confusing everyone who listens.
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Kerry was asked exactly what Dubya did wrong in Iraq, his answer was 'everything'. He was then asked what he would do differently, he replied; 'I'd do everything right'.
How can one argue with that?
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Nice speech.. Hope to see more like that!
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Let me just say, I don't trust Bush and I am not thrilled with Kerry.
Silat nice slam dunk response on the Flip Flop argument. Talk about just spewing Republican talking points, "Kerry is a Flip Flopper" pleeeaaaase.
My only question is, is Bush a flip flopper or a liar.
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As was said in history today.
all politicans who are honest and not willing to compromise never seem to get to the presidency.