Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GADGET on January 09, 2001, 05:00:00 AM
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Although wind presence in the arena is desirable, mostly to simulate crosswind takeoffs and landings, and for navigation purposes, the utility in the general game is doubtful.
With ver 1.04 we had several annoying overlapping wind layers at 10k and 20k, but once passed the 1.000 feet transition, flight was ok, so we could live with it.
But 1.05 come, and with it an "improved" wind model that simulates more wind layers at (I will try to remember all) 6k, 12k, 18k, etc... with a 1000-2000 feet overlapping, so what we have now is a continuous turbulence in the AH atmosphere, caused for this windshear effect, every 5000 feet or less.
Based on my 7000 flight hours in real planes, I can affirm that real atmosphere does not behave this way, except in rare situations. Windshear can be found in certain places (Colorado for the US residents, Canary Islands and Swiss Alps for Europeans) due to their specific orography and local winds, and also in certain situations such as in the vicinity of large thunderstorm cells or at the sides of a jetstream. This abnormal situations is what we perpetually have now in AH. This is something that real pilots would qualify as MODERATE WINDSHEAR and that otherwise would make certain operations such as takeoff and landing hazardous.
Thanks to HT and their programers, we do not have this nasty effect at ground level, but we do have it (oh boy we do have it) at altitudes commonly chosen for combat. In my opinion this is VERY ANNOYING, making the aiming of the guns over the target short of impossible, and producing a total loss of control in some occasions. Here we go in our Mustang, Fw.190A-8, or whatever plane that necessarily uses the vertical plane, cruising at, for instance, 8k. We find a Spitfire HO closing fast, so we decide for a vertical lead turn at a reasonable distance, passing vertically through the wind layers....but at the summit of the maneuver we find that the plane behaves strangely and we either:
1) overcontrol the rudder, elevator and/or ailerons to keep our fighter in the desired trajectory, that is pointing towards the target, while approaching the stall zone fast and our plane plane falls out of control spinning...
2) can not possibly hit our intended target due to the oscillations produced by the windshear, and we spend our last 200 rounds in the empty air.
That is enough... we want this windshear thing OFF until fixed or otherwise changed completely for a more realistically modeling. Those of you that might agree with me, please address HT when found online and ask him to turn WINDSHEAR OFF.
Thx all.
Faithfully at your 6
GADGET
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101 Escuadrón de Combate Virtual (http://www.geocities.com/~ala-10/101-Escuadron/101.htm)
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Oh God yes, I agree totally.
Swoop
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I have to agree that the angular difference and the speed difference between the wind layers is way to high .. and the transitional effect not smooth enough .. it was better in 1.04 where AFAIK the transitional layer was wider .. maybe a combination of the following could help:
a) Have the wind layers with wider transition boundaries
b) have a realistic speed increase and direction change with altitude
What i mean is that unless you have special weather conditions (like Foehn in the alps or Mistral in France...) where strong wind bands are involved (or the jet stream is at extremely low altitude..) you can see usually the wind direction changes by some 30 - 50 degrees from the ground to 20.000 feet with a speed pickup of around 20-30kts .. (at least here in central europe)
and the change will be gradual in the oepen atmosphere unless disturbed by terrain..
DW6
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Seconded.
Pepe
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agreed!
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Agreed!
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dam i havne't noticed it much I jsut thought my rudder pedals were slipping or I was to drunk (most cases I was)
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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"
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Sorry..
But i like it!!
Nothing affect a fight more than little surprises in a fight, and wind sheer is 1 of them. But it affect both pilots in a fight, so no advantage to either. Just plain fun..
Prefer wind as it is now. Wether it mimics real conditions or not, i like it!!
Dog out.......
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Hmm,...
Maybe if HT just changed it so you had some warning as to its presence? Say, move the windshear local to clouds?
I, for one, would love to see a particle system within the cloud base, anyway. You know, a vertical column of air moving at 40-150mph? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Voss 13th T.A.S.
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As far as ground wind speed, we've gone full circle back to the post about needing a windsock on the runways to show wind direction.
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Winds aloft rarely make "drastic" changes in speed or direction. This is something that's more likely close to the ground. How bout just a steady state wind on the ground (variably 5, 10, or 15 mph, set each day or each week or whatever) and then vary the wind 10 degrees and 5 mph each thousand feet or so?
Kinda like real wind.
If you want to build in "turbulence," that's fine, but unless you're talking about pretty severe "clear air turbulence" which would make fighting impossible, it really won't add any "immersion" to the game.
If you want to add some realism that would actually make a difference, add wingtip vortex and propwash slipstream from the aircraft ahead of you. A 109 50 yards behind a bomb-laden P-47 would have some nasty surprises in store, aiming-wise. Being right behind a B-17 would be even worse.
And be careful with that 7000 hours stuff Gadget--you're arguing with SIM pilots here! There's nothing you "know" that they can't "disprove." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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If there is no wind at ground level then we do not need a windsock. They didn't have them at 10k or 20k and if wind is modelled right we should just have to deal with it. I would rather a tab on the clipboard with a weather report reflecting conditions on my take off.
I personally like the wind feature. It 'add's to the online experience and is no way turbulant' nor something that takes a massive effort to have to handle. If what AH has is not a close representation of the real effect then help HTC correct it. The days of no wind, sunny days with perfect temperature and humidity in online sims are old and should be improved upon. HTC has brought us clouds and we also have wind. Help them work in AH. Please don't ask for thier removals for their effect is not as drastic as some may make it sound.
-Westy
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I agree with Gadget, Duckwing and Jedi.
The present wind model is, well ..."overmodeled". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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My first 5 flights ended in total plane control lose and an auger. I noticed i loose it at a few different alts and I asked on channel 1 if anyone was getting a "wind shear effect" at 14k and a few responded with a yes. Let me tell you the one i get at 14k is NASTY!!! I fly a jabo jug with 75% fuel ,, climbing out it's near impossible ( notice i say near) not to auger, I'm at stall warning as it is, passing 3 or 4 wind shears is not very funny. Also i wish we were warned, rather than Many thinking our controllers were porked with 1.05. Until this thread i was still thinking of reinstalling the software
NUTTZ
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For those of you that think that I don't want wind... don't take me wrong, I would love to have wind. But I want a realistically behavior of wind and its layers, not what we have now.
Don't make mistakes here... windshear is not necessarily turbulence, but a drastically difference in speed and/or direction of two wind layers...what we actually have. Although planes move in the air mass, and have no relative wind in their motion (unless you measure it from the ground), crossing layers of wind with different speeds and/or directions is the same as increasing/decreasing airspeed. Now guys...look at your anemometers when crossing this layers and tell me what you see? And your vertical speed indicators?...
Now this is windshear, no regular wind nor turbulence. In the wrong conditions windshear can down a plane, or induce a stall, spin or loss of control somehow. And guys... we have plenty.
GADGET
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101 Escuadrón de Combate Virtual (http://www.geocities.com/~ala-10/101-Escuadron/101.htm)
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i hate it
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Agreed, it's not correctly modelled, but on the other hand, it has never caused me any significant problems whether flying or fighting...now grabbing out is a different story...tosses the nose up 30 degrees and changes my heading 10 degrees.
I'm sure they are working on improvements to this and the never ending complaints and wishes of the AH community...patience everyone...patience (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ice
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The current windshear model is too drastic and unrealistic. Not much fun.
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You know I didn't even notice the wind last night or the night before when we flew a bombing campain out of 28 to 35. We leveled off at 15k before we bombed. Everything seemed fine to me.
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NHFoxtro
-XO-NightHawks
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/nhcouger.gif)
NightHawks "WE BAD"
[This message has been edited by NHFoxtro (edited 01-09-2001).]
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Yes there is windshear in Colorado and I have the stained underpants to prove it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by funked:
Yes there is windshear in Colorado and I have the stained underpants to prove it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
why would something you bought off the internet have anything to do with windshear?
NUTTZ
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Huh. I noticed this happening for the first time last night, my first time in patch 4.
It definitely made things difficult, and ruined my guns solution on more than one occasion.
but i usually chalk this type of occurrence up to me sucking.
I live in Colorado, and the only wind sheer I experience is the one I hook up to my vaccuum to cut my hair.
ouch that hurt.
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ROFL! Good one NUTTZ!
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Scratch what I wrote above,I must have not been paying attention, but ther is definatly windsheer. I hit a patch last nite hitting Rooks HQ that thru me and the others down 500ft and back up 2k. Best ride of my life
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I dont mind it much, and I fly a pony pretty exclusively as of late. On or off at higher altitudes doesn't really make a difference to me, although all in all, I'd prefer to keep it.
I think its a really cool effect and I'd like to see it at ground level more often to make take off and landing more interesting and life like.
CRASH
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LOL Nuttz!!!