Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: thrila on September 21, 2004, 09:34:06 AM
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Cons:-
It can't turn.
It's slow.
Terrible stall characteristics.
Bleeds E like nothing else.
Acceleration is on par with a 49cc scooter with 4 bags of heavy shopping.
Pros:-
It's damn sexy!:)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/87_1092308790_mosquito.jpg)
and the guns aren't bad i suppose....
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700 rounds of hispanos over 4 guns. =) I used to LOVE the mossie, it is great fun.
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I'd would fly it if it was a '43ish arena.
Among the top 10 in deck speeds in '43ish arena, definately not an easy plane to catch for something like a 109G-2 or G-6 if it has already got lots of speed.
Also carries a hefty jabo load and good armament.
It's be the premiere Jabo ride next to the Bf110G-2.
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Hey dont **** talk my scooter....
My black little stalker does a nice 90km/h
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It was porked in AH...Now it's even more porked.
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Slow? How much fuel you loading? Half a tank is more than enough and it scoots along just fine. I use it instead of a Tiffy.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Slow? How much fuel you loading? Half a tank is more than enough and it scoots along just fine. I use it instead of a Tiffy.
It is slow. Doesn't matter how much fuel you take. It tops out at 336mph on the deck using WEP and at 380mph at 13,000ft using WEP.
By the MA's standards that isn't just slow, it is VERY slow.
Of all the fighters you are likely to meet you can only outrun three of them, the N1K2-J, Spitfire Mk IX and Spitfire Mk V. A Bf109F-4 will give it a real nice run for it's money, and if persistant will run it down.
Not exactly what it did historically.
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actually, I find the acceleration to be not bad. In a shallow dive, it is excellent.
it is slow in our 1945 areana, but it is still one of the fastest planes when loaded. flying with full bombs and rockets it's only slightly slower than a fully loaded tiffy and faster than a fully loaded P51. But they'll have a much better chance of making it back after droping the load.
I fly it for the same reason I fly the Jug - I love these planes, even if they aren't the best.
and yes they are sexy :)
Bozon
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Common now. I understand that some people fly the mossie because they like the plane. Thats great, but everytime I engaged one, it did one of two things:
1) Try to run
2) Run did not work, lets . . . . well, 700 rounds of hispanos over 4 guns, figure out what option 2 was.
Its not the plane the BBS is making out to be. Its success was low level night attack missions, not fighing. But it does look good :D
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well thrila,
you fly it because you are pretty darn confident with it, and I don't think your Mossie is all that slow :)
and yes they are a beauty!
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Who was the German general that was asked how to beat the Brits and he said, give me a squadron of mosquitos.
I have run into a few guys that can last a couple turns in them, but most just try to ho the crap out of you.
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Originally posted by mars01
Who was the German general that was asked how to beat the Brits and he said, give me a squadron of mosquitos.
I have run into a few guys that can last a couple turns in them, but most just try to ho the crap out of you.
Bingo, only HOs by mossies and 110s don;t bother me that much. Its pretty mach the only chance they have.
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Of all the fighters you are likely to meet you can only outrun three of them, the N1K2-J, Spitfire Mk IX and Spitfire Mk V. A Bf109F-4 will give it a real nice run for it's money, and if persistant will run it down.
Not exactly what it did historically.
It was not used historically for low altitude air-air combat. In the MA it's best in the jabo/vulcher role.
Who was the German general that was asked how to beat the Brits and he said, give me a squadron of mosquitos.
You mean Galland? He said Spitfires. And he was talking about tactics, not the actual plane.
ra
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It was Goring that was uber impressed by the wooden Mossie.
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I fly it because it is my favorite aircraft. That said it did not transition to AH2 well.
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Dale did not give the actually speed the MOSSIE could achieve.....
its under PAR in AH, sad but true.
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Originally posted by SLO
its under PAR in AH, sad but true.
AH has the most favorable flight model I have ever seen on the Mossie. Usually it is modeled as a slow, unmanverable tub that should die enmasse. In AH it is a least mid-range in speed, can climb decnet and is ok on manuverability.
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Another reason to fly a mossie... a shell hitting it makes a very cool "thud" sound :D
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Originally posted by thrila
Cons:-
It can't turn.
It's slow.
Terrible stall characteristics.
Bleeds E like nothing else.
Acceleration is on par with a 49cc scooter with 4 bags of heavy shopping.
[/SIZE]
those "cons" are exactly why people fly it...noone expects it to do what it can.
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Dunno ... I'll take a Mosi over a Tiffy anyday for field attacks. I love the thing ... those .303's kind of suck, but they actually do a decent job on smaller city buildings.
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im starting to get tired of 1 hit ACK setting it ablaze
iv realy been having a hard time with low level field strikes in the Mossie because the ack rips it apart
thats what i get for flying a wood plane:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by simshell
im starting to get tired of 1 hit ACK setting it ablaze
iv realy been having a hard time with low level field strikes in the Mossie because the ack rips it apart
thats what i get for flying a wood plane:rolleyes:
The historical documents all claim it was tougher than if it were metal.
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I dont remember who but someone is/was real good in a mossie with the scissors. I never could figure out how to manuver that well slow myself.
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I've had great and crappy results with a mossie. I've either thrown it into an unrecoverable stall or kept up with outstanding pilots.
Once I took out an Me262 (by luck though) and a yak in the same flight. The yak had extra E too.
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Hehehe... the reasoning behind my post was even though the mossie isn't great, i love it all the same. It is a good plane in an arena full of great planes- despite how great i say the mossie is over ch1. ;) The mossie has been my main ride for many tours.:-) I have plenty of mossie films for anyone who wishes to become a buddy mossie pilot. However the mossie just isn't that popular.:(
Dok- Karnak is right, the mossie is a terribly slow plane in the MA. It is only marginally faster than the spit IX and n1k + without any of the manouverability. BTW i use 50% unless i'm defending the HQ or hunting buffs in which case i'll use 100%.
Bozon you're right about the acceleration in a dive- it's great!:) I use it a lot to gain some seperation before re-engaging a con. I rarely use it to outrun cons as the mossie tends to lose control surfaces at high speed which renders it's advantage useless.:( Its level acceleration does suck though, i would put it on par with the p47 d11. The p47 is sexy-ish.:)
DC- Thanks, i do love the mossie!:)
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The mossie. like any plane here Is only as good as its pilot is in it.
Every plane here is a good plane if you spend enough time in it to get good at it
Thing is not a whole lot of people feel like spending enough time in other planes to get good in them.
they tend to go for the shortest learning curve.
Hence you see so many spits and La7's and not that many mossies or P40's
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Sounds like a 190A8 to me..
Except you actually keep control when airbraking, have an excellent fwd view, and it can turn, actually.
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Huh ... I never thought of it as slow or lacking acceleration ... never really looked at the stats, though. Just always felt better than the Tiffy to me - especially fully loaded with ord. Probably just subjective.
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It does handle ord better. All the twin engined fighters do, especially the P-38 and Mossie. The extra weight has a lower percentage impact on their power to weight ratio.
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schoolbus
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I completely disagree that the Mosquito in AHII has been porked compared to AHI. IMHO it is just the opposite!
1) The Mosquito now has tremendous fuel range. You can fly at full throttle for about 18 mins on each 25% fuel load. You can fly for 90 minutes on 100% plus drop tanks and little throttle management. That is the complete opposite from AHI where the fuel range was awful.
2) IMHO it handles better, (or I'm just getting better...)
3) It is far better in the vertical than the AHI Mosquito. I have gotten numerous kills on fighters that went vertical on the merge because they assumed the Mossie was like the old AHI Mossie that was awful in the vertical. The AHII Mosquito is quite good in the V department, I can stand it on it's tail down to 40 MPH and blast away with it's 8 guns at poor flopping wannabe rope a dopers.
I especially enjoy P-38s because they invariably go vertical and give me a nice big planform as I turn inside them on the loop.
4) It turns pretty darn well. Or maybe the opposing pilot assumes the Mossie can't turn so tries to make too gentle of a turn, but I regularly outturn enemy fighters of all types in the initial couple of turns. I think part of it is the Mossie bleeds E very fast, so if you chop throttle in a turn, you will turn inside almost every other equal E fighter for at least one or two turns. Usually it only takes 1/4 to 3/4 of a turn and you've got your deflection shot lined up with that massive firepower. But you better not miss, because almost every fighter will win the sustained turn game.
5) As mentioned, it has the best climbrate and speed of all the JABOS when heavy with ordnance. I'm always throttling back if I go with P-51s, F6Fs, F4Us, or P-47s. Only the P-38 is really able to keep up when heavy.
One trick, you can raise your head up quite a bit and get a much better view over the nose. It really helps for those high deflection shots.
The downside:
1) It flames wings just like the AHI roman candle.
2) It takes awhile to get used to the spin. Just practice is all. I very rarely spin it anymore, and can quickly recover any spin except the dreaded reverse tail slide stall/spin.
3) It's not as fast as I wish for the RTB after a JABO attack. But almost no good JABOS are. So I take a Tiffy if I expect to be outnumbered at an enemy base, at least it has good speed for the rtb.
4) It is prone to pilot wounds when attacking GVs. One evening I was pilot wounded half a dozen times in a row while defending a base from Panzers.
But all in all it is my favorite plane. I even have the below print hanging above my monitor, signed by original RCAF aircrew:
(http://www.brooksart.com/Rampage.jpg)
Rangers on the Rampage by Robert Taylor
RAF Mosquitos on a "Day Ranger" mission attack a German airfield shortly after D-Day, 1944. Pilot signed print.
Signatures
Air Marshal Broom, Sir Ivor KCB CBE DSO DFC AFC
Group Captain Cunningham, John 'Cats-Eyes'
Wing Commander Fumerton, Moose
Squadron Leader Kearns, T
Air Commodore Sismore, E B 'Ted' DSO DFC AFC AE
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i love flying the mossie.
get a plane in your sights, squeeze of a few rounds: *BOOM*
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There was a show on Discovery wings about a week ago on the Mossy and the pilots were basically calling the Mossy Uber. They said it turned very good and was as fast as anything the Americans had including the P51. In fact thier exact words were that only the jets could outrun it.Plus it had the nose full of Cannons and machine guns. Its sad to see that these great Pilots and Heros have such poor memories....Because according to AH2 the 110G-2 was a much better Aircraft:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Fauxbra
Because according to AH2 the 110G-2 was a much better Aircraft:rolleyes:
Um, no. The Mossie is a far better fighter than the Bf110G-2 is. The Bf110G-2 is better at Jabo, but that is all.
If the Mossie didn't have the flame dampers the difference would be even more pronounced. Or if the Bf110G was a nightfighter with flame dampers.
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Pilots will always think the plane that got them through the war was the best thing to ever roll off the production line. Only natural.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Pilots will always think the plane that got them through the war was the best thing to ever roll off the production line. Only natural.
In the case of the Mossie I am certain it was better than what we have modeled.
Not as good as those claims, true, but better than what we have.
There must have been a reason that RAF Fighter Command in the post war period had more Mossie squadrons planned than Spitfire squadrons. If the Mossie were as useless as in AH that would have been sheer idiocy.
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There must have been a reason that RAF Fighter Command in the post war period had more Mossie squadrons planned than Spitfire squadrons. If the Mossie were as useless as in AH that would have been sheer idiocy.
Devil's advocate. They might have planned on a quick transition to jet fighters with the Mossie maintaining the light/medium attack role.
Charon
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Originally posted by Charon
Devil's advocate. They might have planned on a quick transition to jet fighters with the Mossie maintaining the light/medium attack role.
Or they figured the USAAF would take care of the air supremacy over Europe and they were more concerned with ground support for the army.
-DoK
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No, they didn't have many jet squadrons planned in the years immediately after WWII.
Many of the Mossie squadrons were nightfighters, but a lot were FB.Mk VIs as well. The FB.Mk VI was still in production after WWII ended.
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It's a bit apples and oranges from a comparison standpoint, since they were different aircraft used for different purposes in a rapidly changing, real world environment that had no significant similarities to how the Mosquito is used in the AH MA. The same can generally be said for WW2 operations as well.
While jet fighters were expensive, jet bombers were even more expensive and even the US had financial trouble fielding next generation planes like the B-45 before August 29, 1949 changed the whole picture.
They were certainly good enough to fill their WW2 roles for a number of years, often operationally better than the newer jets (and at far less cost), just like the A-26, Skyraider, Sea Fury and F4U and P-51 in Korea.
Charon
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Pilots will always think the plane that got them through the war was the best thing to ever roll off the production line. Only natural.
However the Mossie really did earn their respect. It had the lowest crew fatality rate of all bombers in WWII.
RAF analysis after the war proved the Mossie to be a far more efficient means of delivering bombs to a target than all the other RAF bombers.
They took into account:
Crew survival (and therefore additonal training time for new crew);
Resources used: two Merlins per lost plane instead of four, two crew instead of seven, wood instead of metal.
And finally accuracy: The Mossie was much more accurate, it's bombs actually hit the intended target. One reason why it was used as a Pathfinder to mark the target with incendiaries for the Lancasters to home in on.
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How many of the posters here actually know that the different marks of Mosquitoes had very different performance figures and that the FB mark was the only armed day version and slowest of them all (except for the costal command version with the big cannon)?
Karnak need not answer.
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:p
Besides, the NF.Mk II was slower than the FB.Mk VI.
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"... day version ..." ;)
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I've loved the Mosquito since I saw 633 Squadron with my friends for my 10th Birthday.
I just ordered the DVD. Maybe next year I'll bring it to the AH Con!
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008PC0X.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg)
You want chills, click here: Click Here for the sound! (http://www.mossie.org/sounds/mosquito_complete.mp3)
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GScholz,
OK, although the NF.Mk II was used during the day, how about comparing the B.Mk IV or PR.Mk IV to a FB.Mk VI with Merlin 25s and no flame damper? The Mk VI in that case is faster.
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do you all think it would be very hard to add the Mossie with the 4000ib i think it was into AH
because they already have 1 mossie that im sure is close to what this version is
just for kicks can some one show me the speed of one of the unarmed pure bomber Mossies?
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Originally posted by simshell
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just for kicks can some one show me the speed of one of the unarmed pure bomber Mossies?
First google I found:
http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/DE%20HAVILLAND%20DH98%20MOSQUITO.htm
De Havilland Mosquito B Mk XVI: Similar to B Mk IX with pressure cabin, based on pro-totype development (see PR Mk XVI). First production B Mk XVI flown October 1943; 80 built with Merlin 72/73 and 320 with Merlin 76/77; all but first 12 with bulged bomb-bay for 4,000-lb (1, 816-kg) bomb. Some fitted with Oboe H2S and other bombing navaids. Initial deliveries to Nos 109 and 139 Sqns, end-1943.
Max speed (with 4,000-lb/1,816-kg bomb), 408 mph (656 km/h) at 28,500 ft (8,687 m) and 329 mph (529 km/h) at sea level. Intitial operating ceiling, 28,500 ft (8,687 m). Operational range, 1,100 mis (1,770 km) with 597 Imp gal (2,714 I) including two 100-Imp gal (454-1) drop tanks. Empty weight, 14,901 Ib (6,765 kg). Gross weight, 25,200 Ib (11,440 kg). Span, 54 ft 2 in (15.51 m). Length, 40ft 6 in (12.34 m).
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I see it now, a squad of 408 MPH Mossies at 28,000 ft carrying 4,000 lb blockbusters.
Oh the Humanity !
I can just imagine the whine fest!
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Originally posted by MOSQ
I see it now, a squad of 408 MPH Mossies at 28,000 ft carrying 4,000 lb blockbusters.
Oh the Humanity !
I can just imagine the whine fest!
yea but they would to use the Bombsight at 28k at 400mph for 1 bomb
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Mossie is a good plane in AH. I'd also like to have one of the pure bomber variants, they were pretty fast but I dont think they carried any guns. That would balance out the fast speed I think and make for a nice bomber.
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If we have any aircraft skinners among the Mossie clan, here's a page with Mossie illustrations. Alas, I have no clue how to do a custome skin.
http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/mosquitos.htm (http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/mosquitos.htm)
The illustrations clearly show the difference between the exhaust shrouds for night operations and the faster exhausts we all wish we had in AHII.
(http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/dehavilland_mosquito/mosquito_fb-4.jpg)
(http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/dehavilland_mosquito/mosquito_fb-2.jpg)
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Karnak is right:
The mossie is an underpowered, fragile slug that can't maneuver at all. Due to its overwhelming Unterness it should not be flown by anyone.
If you see a mossie, no matter how poor your energy state, you should attack it at once as, despite its armament, it has no chance of survival.
Thank you.
Scherf
PS Karnak - Still owe you an email, still no access to scanners. Shout if there are any time pressures related to the AH mossie.
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Originally posted by Scherf
Karnak is right:
The mossie is an underpowered, fragile slug that can't maneuver at all. Due to its overwhelming Unterness it should not be flown by anyone.
If you see a mossie, no matter how poor your energy state, you should attack it at once as, despite its armament, it has no chance of survival.
Thank you.
Scherf
PS Karnak - Still owe you an email, still no access to scanners. Shout if there are any time pressures related to the AH mossie.
Armament is useless if you can't get the guns on the bad guy. Nobady said it should not be flown. Just don;t expect to survive a dog fight in it - lets say 90% of the time?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Armament is useless if you can't get the guns on the bad guy. Nobady said it should not be flown. Just don;t expect to survive a dog fight in it - lets say 90% of the time?
Hmmm. I have a much, much higher survival rate in dogfights using the Mossie than 10%.
I'd guess I survive maybe 66% or so of the dogfights I get in using the Mossie. I don't always get kills, but....
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I just started flyin AH Mossie today, fun!
Need to get used to that damage sound, "What was that noise"?
then i look at damage display, lots of red...lol
I used to fly a mossie "bomber" in WB2, no guns, 4x500 eggs, very fast, great for surgical strikes
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Scherf is correct, the Mossie is as dangerous as a blimp. If you see one, it's a easy kill.
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depends on who is flying it
a nik a spit are easy kills if the pliot is easy
the Mossie only needs 1 snapshot to end it all and its got the turnrate to get it
but its E dies out very fast so it wont be able to turn long time
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Thrila, to me the mossie is a heavy gunned form of the P38 and all I usually fly is the P38. On the occasion I will take planes such as perk planes, etc. but when I fly the mossie people usually try to face shoot me. They dont realize trying to faceshoot a mossie is asking for a deathwish with 4x20mms and 4x303s. If you know how to fly a P38 you can fly a mossie.
I didnt really notice that it burns E. To me it takes awhile for the speed to really decline and it can turn for me just like a 38, which means out turning la7s and spits.
Canaris
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Hehe...listen to Scherf, he speaks the truth. You should especially engage if you find 2 bish mossies.:)
Canaris the p38 is far more deadly than a mossie from my experience. I've flown a couple of mossie v p38 duels.... once the p38 gets onto the mossies tail it's all over. The p38 is better in every category except for firepower and dive acceleration. I hate p38s!:D
I do agree the mossie turns well at high speed due to it's high E bleed. I try to use it to my advantage forcing overshoots, but if a late war plane wants to bnz me to death there is little i can do if he isn't agressive.
The mossie manouvers well enough to get kills, but only because of it's guns. If had a weaker arnament i doubt I would get half of my kills.
This is why i love 4 hispanos:) (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/87_1096111329_2mossv2spit.ahf)
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Heheheh, thrila is too modest - that film ends early, before he shoots down the other spit, followed by another con, followed by a 51 which I finished off but for which he got credit (waaaa) followed by us both landing on the cv. I stayed within the wires, just, ah, sans landing gear.
Thrila, email me at markhux@hotmail.com sometime, I have a favour to ask.
Cheers,
Scherf
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Just got 633 squadron on DVD :)
I'd forgotten it was in colour!
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Seeker,
I watched it last night, first time since 1964. Brought back a lot of memories of my old elementary school friends.
The stars of the movie are the Mossies. I heard that they pranged two Mossies during the filming.
When you watch the last flight/attack scene, guess which movie used it as the basis for it's final scene. I'm sure you'll recognize it!
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"Waaaahooooo!"
"Gwaaaaaooooooooggg!"
"Phiyp-u--eeeeeeeee!!"
Cheers,
Scherf