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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gh0stFT on September 21, 2004, 04:49:54 PM

Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Gh0stFT on September 21, 2004, 04:49:54 PM
U.S. to sell Israel 5,000 smart bombs (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/479587.html)

"The Pentagon told Congress that the bombs are meant to maintain Israel's qualitative advantage, and advance U.S. strategic and tactical interests."


:rolleyes:
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Saurdaukar on September 21, 2004, 05:04:29 PM
Good.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Gh0stFT on September 21, 2004, 05:10:26 PM
what this region needs is more weapons,
ofcourse good!
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Torque on September 21, 2004, 05:12:44 PM
Wouldn't a more appropriate title be "American Taxpayers buy Israel 5000 Smart Bombs"?
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: SOB on September 21, 2004, 05:13:49 PM
No chit, cut 'em off.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Dago on September 21, 2004, 05:14:06 PM
ghostft,  I was just wondering how old you are?

dago
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Nefarious on September 21, 2004, 05:14:25 PM
I wonder what they'll use them for...

Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Gh0stFT on September 21, 2004, 05:30:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
ghostft,  I was just wondering how old you are?

dago


30mins ago i turned 36 - birthday today 22 Sept. :)

whats your point?
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: GreenCloud on September 21, 2004, 05:32:25 PM
soem things piss me off about isreal..im tired of sending them money..they need to be set loose and kill many many terrorist Leaders


i heard we will be paying them for moving out of the west bank..that is BS,....let them kill each ohter till they say truce
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 21, 2004, 05:33:10 PM
Smart bombs?  Jesus christ, you can't inspire fear with smart bombs anymore.


You need Moabs.  If the palestinians see that the jews are willing to take out several city blocks to get 1 guy, then they will calm down.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: B17Skull12 on September 21, 2004, 05:35:35 PM
JUST what we need.  More weapons in an Area that is more than likely harboring more terrorist willing to conspire against isreal and friends.

that was a really dumb move.  They can make their own wepaons and fend for them selves.

Sssesssh!
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Saurdaukar on September 21, 2004, 05:38:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nefarious
I wonder what they'll use them for...




And the room was illuminated.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: BlueJ1 on September 21, 2004, 05:42:16 PM
Ok, we sold them "smart" bombs. But, do they have the ability to use them ? ie: aircraft good enough to carry them?
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: GreenCloud on September 21, 2004, 05:45:21 PM
um yes..i think there f18s and f16s can carry there bombs just fine

and they dont have enuff natural resources to supply there own war machine..thats why we support them..or the PLO and friends would finish off the Jews with the "Final Solution"


truly disgusting
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 21, 2004, 05:56:08 PM
I want to see:

Israeli taxpayers buy 5,000 US bombs for IAF..

Not..

US taxpayers buy 5,000 US bombs for IAF..

Israel is a big boy, he can buy his own toys now...

BTW do you think 5,000 is enough?
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: BlueJ1 on September 21, 2004, 05:57:44 PM
Wasnt being sarcastic Greencloud. I was asking a real question. I dont know much about Isreal military forces. I atleast thought they could get their own missiles by now tho.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: lasersailor184 on September 21, 2004, 06:08:09 PM
Quote
BTW do you think 5,000 is enough?


Don't know.  How many times do you think they'll replace a hamas leader before they catch on?
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: GreenCloud on September 21, 2004, 06:21:59 PM
Blue J..basically Isreal is using ALL of our Technology to fight..

But they do have soem VERY smart peopel devolping very good wepoans and intel devices..in isreal itself


BUT we give them BILLIONS in Military aid..."we make good wepaons"

they fly f16s and apaches all day long..
they are a very small country with nme surrounding them..tuff place to survive...thats why EVERy Isreally is trained in Automatic wepaons..and is encouraged to "pack"
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Ripsnort on September 21, 2004, 06:37:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GreenCloud
Blue J..basically Isreal is using ALL of our Technology to fight..

 


We never give any nation our most advanced avionics/radar packages on exported aircraft.  You never know when a friend becomes an enemy.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Steve on September 22, 2004, 11:39:36 AM
Quote
that was a really dumb move. They can make their own wepaons and fend for them selves.



Yes, screw our best ally in the region.  Let the terrorists push them into the sea.

:rolleyes:


Every time you open your mouth, crap falls out.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: eagl on September 22, 2004, 12:04:57 PM
If the smart bomb packages help them hit their intended targets with fewer civilian casualties and collateral damage, then what's the big deal?  They're going to shoot and drop bombs anyhow, so maybe it's in everyone's best interest if they can use more accurate weapons.  Drop one bomb instead of a dozen...  Makes sense to me.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: -MZ- on September 22, 2004, 12:10:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GreenCloud
thats why EVERy Isreally is trained in Automatic wepaons..and is encouraged to "pack"


Only the Jewish ones.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: NUKE on September 22, 2004, 12:13:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by -MZ-
Only the Jewish ones.


cause they aren't the one's deliberatley attacking civilians. I wish the US adopt some of Israel's ideas.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: straffo on September 22, 2004, 12:16:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
If the smart bomb packages help them hit their intended targets with fewer civilian casualties and collateral damage, then what's the big deal?  They're going to shoot and drop bombs anyhow, so maybe it's in everyone's best interest if they can use more accurate weapons.  Drop one bomb instead of a dozen...  Makes sense to me.

Right , but work only if the intel. is very good.



NUKE , there is some Israel citizen who are arabic an muslim.
Now re-read -MZ-'s post.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: -MZ- on September 22, 2004, 01:03:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
I wish the US adopt some of Israel's ideas.


All white christians get assualt rifles?
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: NUKE on September 22, 2004, 01:07:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by -MZ-
All white christians get assualt rifles?


yeah, that's exactly what I was saying :rolleyes:
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Nilsen on September 22, 2004, 01:17:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
30mins ago i turned 36 - birthday today 22 Sept. :)

whats your point?


Happy birthday! :)
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Cobra412 on September 22, 2004, 01:32:13 PM
You've forgot to mention the F-15I which has LANTIRN capabilities.  Which means they already have the ability of precision guided munitions.  They have had them for sometime now.  I watched as they landed at my base years ago while they were in transit to Israel.

They are probably JDAMS and maybe even EGBU-15s or EAGM-130s.  If you read closely they are GPS guided weapons.  Which means you only have to have the capability of carrying them and minor interface options.

There are many other smart weapons but i doubt they are being sold to Israel.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: cpxxx on September 22, 2004, 01:32:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BlueJ1
Wasnt being sarcastic Greencloud. I was asking a real question. I dont know much about Isreal military forces. I atleast thought they could get their own missiles by now tho.


The Israeli Air Force is one of the best around if not the best. They have F15's and F16's and know how to use them.  The rest of their military is probably the best in the world bar none.
They need to be good.

The army uses  helicopters to single out terrorists in moving cars on busy streets and assassinate them with minimum civilian casualities.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: bozon on September 23, 2004, 12:58:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra412
They are probably JDAMS and maybe even EGBU-15s or EAGM-130s.  If you read closely they are GPS guided weapons.  Which means you only have to have the capability of carrying them and minor interface options.

most are JDAMS if I remember correctly.
GPS bombs are not normaly used for surgical strikes.

Quote
There are many other smart weapons but i doubt they are being sold to Israel.

Actually, when it comes to smart bombs and missiles, Israel has got a few things to sell to the US. Quite a few "smart bombs" that were used in the 1st gulf war were sold to the US by Israel.

In many cases, the US protect its military industries by not accepting Israeli companies in ARMY/NAVY contructs. Even if the Israeli industry has better products.

Bozon
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Cobra412 on September 23, 2004, 04:06:56 AM
Bozon I beg to differ on your comment in regards to surgical strikes using GPS guided weapons.  I've been there when we've used them specifically because it was a surgical strike.  Many of the weapons used in the initial strike on Iraq this last time were GPS guided.

Laser Guided weapons are notorious for "laser no guide" failures.  Very often 1 out of 2 weapons will fall long or short of it's target due to this type of failure.  They will typically miss by 500 to 1000 feet.  They are also subject to misses due to improperly boresighted targeting systems.  They are also subject to failure due to laser failures of the targeting systems themselves.  

GPS weapons are just as precise if not more than Laser guided munitions.  The weapons have only two things to worry about during a release.  One being a good initial bomb run and decent weather.  Laser guided have much more to worry about and the problems are rather normal.

I'm also well aware of Israels technology.  Especially considering they didn't want to by many of the systems that would normally come on the F-15.  They chose to build their own and have them installed.  I've seen the alternate systems they installed and they are far better than the ones the US buys for their F-15s.  One example is the EMD (Engine Monitoring Display).  The US EMD is a LCD type screen that is notorious for having white blotches over time.  This is not the case for the Israelis.  Theirs is a standard Monochrome CRT.  It's average life span is almost 2 years longer than the typical US EMD.  Same goes with their mapping system.  The were the first to design and use a completely digital mapping system.  We have only started using this type of system about 5 years ago.  We were still using old microfish style Map reader systems.  They were plagued with jams, broken reels, and distorted and unreadable maps.  

I'm also very aware of our "smart weapons" since I'm part of flight test.  I was here when JDAMS and WCMDs were being tested for use in the active duty sector.  Same with the AIM 9X and a few other weapons.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: bozon on September 23, 2004, 10:29:42 AM
all true Cobra.
It's just the IAF definition of surgical strike is very different from the USAF's... :)

in the IAF a surgical strike is to hit 1 person/vehicle on the move from over 6000ft AGL.

The GPS weapon is mostly for smoke / bad weather condition or for strikes under SA threat.

Bozon
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Cobra412 on September 23, 2004, 02:09:26 PM
Bozon true.  They do have a tendency to go after moving targets. :D

Maybe an ABL system is the next thing they'll design.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: mossada on September 24, 2004, 12:33:50 AM
Speaking from experiance (14 yrs IAF) the IAF is more than capable of using any current U.S. "smart" munition, and we have a few of our own. Also to the ones who say to cut us off, I thought the U.S. was looking for allies not to kill the ones they have off. the IMI also produces many systems far superior to systems used by the U.S as stated in previous posts.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Gunslinger on September 24, 2004, 12:39:50 AM
Blah blah blah....taxpayer money....blah blah blah....why do they need them.


As far as I've read on this IAF  PAID FOR the bombs.  So no waste of the taxpayers dollars but an increase.  The DOD buys them from a manufacturer....manufacurer pays taxes on profits...


As far as smart bombs go.....wouldnt it be better to have more accurate weapons to take out hamas leaders......rather than inacurate bombs that have a better chances of killing non combatants?
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Cobra412 on September 24, 2004, 05:54:58 AM
Mossada much of the US Military issues is not having access to advanced and more reliable systems.  It deals with who's gonna pay for it.  The US Military has a tendency to be penny pinchers.  I've seen many advanced systems come out and we don't buy them because of their cost.  

We had an advanced fuel quantity guaging test set come out for trial use.  It's size and ease of use was outstanding.  Opposed to spending more time pulling panels to hook up it cut our trouble shooting time down by almost 3/4.  It was a one panel deal and you could isolate every tank unit.  For whatever reason the US decided not to buy it.  

Same goes for the CRT EMDs.  We ran tests on them and they were extremely reliable.  Military didn't want to pay the upfront cost to change out every last one though.  Even though the cost would have been made up for in less than 2 years solely on the fact it would spend less time in the back shops.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Steve on September 24, 2004, 10:25:19 AM
Quote
Also to the ones who say to cut us off, I thought the U.S. .....



Unfortunately, we are cursed with many idiots here in the U.S..  Fortunately, few of them attain jobs of higher importance than urinal scrubber so we are not in danger of any of them being in a position to set U.S. policy.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Torque on September 24, 2004, 10:50:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Unfortunately, we are cursed with many idiots here in the U.S..  Fortunately, few of them attain jobs of higher importance than urinal scrubber so we are not in danger of any of them being in a position to set U.S. policy.


Unless you're a C sudent with the communication skills of a gregarious anthropoid ape.

So there is still hope fer urinal cake polishers.
Title: one of the largest weapons deals of recent years
Post by: Steve on September 24, 2004, 10:53:20 AM
Lol, Torque!


:lol