Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Flyboy on September 22, 2004, 06:54:37 AM

Title: RAF losses in israel area at 1948?
Post by: Flyboy on September 22, 2004, 06:54:37 AM

anyone know what planes did the british used at 1948 in israel, and what where they losses?

just finished reading a nice book about the independence war, and i wonder what planes did the israely spits and p51s scraps flew against (and shot down :cool:  )

Title: RAF losses in israel area at 1948?
Post by: Guppy35 on September 22, 2004, 11:42:53 AM

They had Spit XVIIIs with 32 and 208 Squadrons.  Those were involved in action against Egyptian Spit IXs after the Egpytians attacked.

There were also Tempests I believe.  Not sure if they ever were engaged with Isreali Spits and 51s though.

Dan/Slack

Title: RAF losses in israel area at 1948?
Post by: bozon on September 22, 2004, 12:34:03 PM

If I remember correctly from Weizmann's book, 4 tempests were shot down after entering Israeli airspace, then 2 more spit 14's that came looking for the missing Temps.

I also vaguely remember another case of spits strifing Israeli forces that were shot down by either 109 or P51s. The spits were unmarked and belived to be RAF, but might have been Egyptians as well.

my memory is not as good anymore as I remember it to be... :)

Bozon

Title: RAF losses in israel area at 1948?
Post by: Guppy35 on September 22, 2004, 01:27:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by bozon
If I remember correctly from Weizmann's book, 4 tempests were shot down after entering Israeli airspace, then 2 more spit 14's that came looking for the missing Temps.

I also vaguely remember another case of spits strifing Israeli forces that were shot down by either 109 or P51s. The spits were unmarked and belived to be RAF, but might have been Egyptians as well.

my memory is not as good anymore as I remember it to be... :)

Bozon

You got it mostly right Bozon :)  4 208 Squadron Spit XVIIIs failed to return from a recce flight.  Tempests retraced the route and were bounced by Isreali Spit IXs and one Tempest went down.  January 7, 1949.  

It was later determined that the Isreali's had shot down the Spits as well  The first of the Spits had gone down to AA fire and while the other Spits were covering the pilot's parachute descent, they were bounced by Isreali Spit IXs  3 of the 4 Spit pilots survived.  The Tempest pilot was killed along with the other Spit pilot.

Dan/Slack

Title: RAF losses in israel area at 1948?
Post by: Angus on September 23, 2004, 05:51:26 AM

Didn't the Israelis have Buchon's as well? Or was it the Avia 109?

Title: RAF losses in israel area at 1948?
Post by: hogenbor on September 23, 2004, 07:37:20 AM

They were Avia S-199's I believe (have to look it up), basically Czech built Bf-109-G14's with Jumo 213 engines. Correct me if I'm wrong... it's all from memory.

Didn't really have a good reputation, I believe it was called Mezek, meaning mule, by the Czechs.

But... how would these match up against a late Spit? Not very well I guess.

Title: RAF losses in israel area at 1948?
Post by: bozon on September 23, 2004, 10:17:46 AM

S-199 was considered a terrible plane, both in preformance and in handling.
not only it had a weak engine, it also did not have the nose cannon - just the two gondolas.

They came with a big arms deal with the Czech that probably saved the country.

Bozon

Title: RAF losses in israel area at 1948?
Post by: Angus on September 23, 2004, 10:38:23 AM

I recall from memory that a couple of those bounced a pair of Spits and shot them down.

BTW, didn't "Screwball" Beurling die on his way to Israel to participate in this conflict?

What a butcher he was ;)