Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Creamo on May 09, 2000, 07:07:00 PM
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Here's a quick idea that might add some game play incentive and interest, without a huge amount of effort. It would reward the old timers, and give Dweebs incentive.
Many computer games have various weapons, or cars, or whatever that you have to earn a certain amount of points, levels, experience etc. to obtain.
Baring you know the cheat to unlock them, you actually have to spend much time doing something right to get access to them. A goal, or initiative to do well, or objective…whatever.
Why not apply that to Aces High and late prerelease late model aircraft?
With the incredible speed that HTC updates the game, (Yeah, people actually get CONCERNED, if there is no update in 2 weeks!) I could see a incentive EACH TOUR, or at least every other tour for adding a new plane that everyone gets in the initial release, but only say only the top 25 - 50 players could unlock and bring into the arena. Of course to be fair, everyone would be able to test the Bonus Aircraft offline, but online, only the player with leading Fighter scores could use them.
Not only that, they'd get say, only 15 per tour to use. When they are all gone from ditching, deaths, or capture, that's it. Then at the end of the tour, EVERYONE gets the new plane to use in the arena. It even is somewhat historically correct. There were limited amounts of planes, especially the latest developments, and certainly the new recruits didn't get first dibs on em.
With a limited amount of aircraft, they wouldn't get over used. Can you imagine if a guy is down to say 3 Dora's left, and is facing Spit HO?! I'm guessing the "kill everything HO no matter what happens to me cuz I'll just replane" would be out the door. :0)
Here's how it could work.
EXAMPLE-V1.03 - New effects added, patched joystick USB issue, added 2 new aircraft, the P40, and Zero, plus 1 *Bonus late model aircraft, the 190 D "Dora".
* Note, you must be in the top 25 in FIGHTER SCORE points to access the Dora in Main Arena.
Now, this raises some interesting questions. A = Answer or Assumption, take yer pick.
1. At the beginning of the tour, all pilots are equal in points, who would get the bonus aircraft?
A. The top 25 from the last tour.
2. Wouldn't that make the top 25 even harder to kill if they had a late model plane in the main arena?
A. Hopefully, but with a limited amount of aircraft, no. Plus, we all know how quickly the new aircraft are flown by everyone then things even right back out.
3. Wouldn't this would promote animosity, everyone pays the same. Shouldn't they all have access to all planes?
A. Well sure, everyone gets all the new planes, even the bonus which they can fly to their hearts content, OFFLINE. (I assume everyone would need the skins and aircraft in their HTC directory anyway so they would appear proper in the game.) And for the guys that are old timers and do well, it's a nice little bonus for FREE.
4. Wouldn't everyone focus on the a plane that was one of these "Bonus Aircraft"?
A. Probably, but what can you do? Not add a interesting element to the mix just because your worried that some dweeb will be chasing your Dora around the arena? Sounds fun anyway.
Of course there would be a million opinions as to how to do this, I was just throwing the idea around, though I'd put it up here to get blasted. You could use it for each vehicle type as in Bombers, Tanks, Ships, etc…
I can't help but think this would add a real nice bonus if even only for a few players. Still, it would be the guys that have supported the online flightsims for years, fly and score well. It certainly would give everyone something to "shoot" for. Pun intended.
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-09-2000).]
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I don't like the elitist part of your idea. But since most of the TOP 25 flyers would be knights anyway I don't care (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Now seriously the problem is we don't have a fightertop 100. It's all the same (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If I capture a field with a goon my scores will go up in both the bomber and fighter top 100.
So what's your idea of the fightertop 100? Most kills per sortie? Best K/D? Most sorties landed? Best gunnery percentage??
See what I mean?
Bee out
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Originally posted by JENG:
Now seriously the problem is we don't have a fightertop 100. It's all the same (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If I capture a field with a goon my scores will go up in both the bomber and fighter top 100.
So what's your idea of the fightertop 100? Most kills per sortie? Best K/D? Most sorties landed? Best gunnery percentage??
See what I mean?
Bee out
Yup, I see what you mean.
Maybe Kills to Deaths in Fighters.
That's pretty cut and dry. You shoot down 57 fighters in fighters, and only get killed 3 times from fighters, there ya go. Track it, rank it.
I don't have the answer, but the question is raised, that's what I intended to do. I have no clue how the scoring works actually. I guess i should go look at it.
Of course, maybe HT has the answer.
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I don't like using the current COMPLETELY BROKEN scoring system to award ANYTHING. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I really like the discussion of allowing you to re-arm and re-fuel on the Gameplay feedback/issues forum. The incentive to keep your streak alive by doing this would in itself lead to a lot more realistic flying.
Given a choice between dolin' out uber planes to elite pilots, or this, I would have to vote for the latter.
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(http://www.intergate.ca/personal/cwharton/sbm/sbmanism.gif)
Nash
Aces High Dweeb
=SBM= The Screamin' Blue Messiahs (http://sbm.virtualworld.net)
"Oops... Rut roh..."
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I think Creamo's messages are too long.
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This has been covered before and i cant remember the consensus (if there ever was one, which i doubt).
I dont like the idea of the 'best' people getting the 'best' planes. Thats not that fair for Joe Newbie who has to deal with less than 'best' planes and fight those in said 'best' planes.
My 2 cents.
Spat <-- stands back from this one...
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Well Spat, of course the opposite end it would be kinda like a "Duffers" award. The LAST 25 get em!
Course, that'd mean I'd be in a Me262, and I know that wouldn't go over, so I went with a logical idea.
Prob more trouble than it's worth. Just a idea.
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Well Rather than awarding the plane/or planes on individual merits.
Why not award it on a team basis
For instance taking over certain amount of enemy terrain will allow the factory to produce x amount of these planes.
Like wise production could be diminished by either factory raids or destruction of raw materials or supply lines to factories.
More Buffing More JABOing More capping ect ect ect (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Strategic elements that good team work would reward (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Elitest rewards IMO will only turn off newbies and frustrate those that cant seem to attain the level needed to be rewarded.
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Aces High Correspondent for www.dogfighter.com (http://www.dogfighter.com) (http://members.home.net/1baddawg/Sims/dog-bite.gif)
[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 05-10-2000).]
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It would be nice if you have a limited # of every a/c avail in a tour, and after you've used up the "good" ones you're stuck with a Brewster buffalo or something for the remainder of the tour. Or maybe just have another arena , call it the real life arena or something , where if you die you're out of that arena for the remainder of the tour. and you have only 3 a/c avail. if you ditch or sustain alot of damage it takes an hour or something to 'repair' it. I know i'd pay extra to play there, since it would really cut down to nil the # of cheaters & HO get kill at all cost dweebs.
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You guys forget one thing - that's exactly how it was in RL (no-one would put a newbie in a 262).
Another point worth considering would be that people tend to "settle" with one aircraft they prefer flying for one reason or another and (in this example) Dora may leave some of the top fighter pilots totally not interested.
But coming back to "I paid my money - I want this plane". What a crappy attitude this is! HTC are trying to balance realism with playability and doing a reasonable job at it - when the fuel tanks are destroyed at a field - anyone moans "I paid my money - I want that fuel NOW"?
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
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Lynx
are you saying newbies didnt fly 262s..of course they did.
Sorry Creamo. While I like your sneak peak idea. I dont like the top 25 or top anything idea.
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Make the latest uberplane available, for everyone, but only at main fields. Then add the rearm/refuel idea. If you safely land an uberplane at a forward field, you can rearm/refuel and take off from there.
This has several effects on gameplay:
Limits the number of uberplanes.
Rewards flying to survive.
Gives defenders of a country's last (main) field uberplanes for defense, while forcing the attackers to use "lesser" planes.
If you want to give an extra incentive for doing well, allow "aces" with a streak of N kills to fly the latest uberplane from any field (even if they didn't land there).
popeye
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I do not like any system that basically says;
"you stay online longer,fly more,have no real life to deal with,here's a superplane just for being here all the time"
That isn't rewarding skill, it's rewarding anybody who can stay online longer than I can
(relative flying skill is a function of total time, even idjits like me get streaks if they play long enuff)
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Pongo - if that's a fact then I'm not surprised 262 had as much impact as they had. The whole idea of putting an unexperienced pilot into a powerful (ie demanding) machine is ludicrous. The more powerful/fast/whatever plane the more difficult it is to control it. It's that simple.
pzvg - that is assuming that everything works on some daft points system. Try flying to survive, running long streaks and you don't have to stay on-line forever. Best pilot is not the one with the maximum points count, it's the one that kills you every time. (A friend of mine once tried simple way to improve one's self discipline in flight - he logged off every time he died. And that was his WB-fix for the evening. The longer he lived the longer he flew. He'd said that his SA had never been better as it was during that time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
The best (IMHO) way to give those uberplanes to anyone would be to set a cut off level in, say, K/D. Nice and easy - K/D>2 - you're in, drops below - get into "not-so-uber" thing and don't engage them until you manage to bump up your K/D ratio. This way there's no "elitism" of Top 25/50/whatever achieved by god-knows-what means, just the skill...
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 05-10-2000).]
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I don't think awarding the top 25 anything is right.
I do like the idea of awarding the side that gets X number of bases.
The big problem I see with awarding anyone is that if you award a side with a new AC then what keeps the people from switching sides so they can fly the awarded AC?
There has to be some sort of incentive to make a group of pilots want to work as a team rather than a bunch of individuals(not that there is anything wrong with flying as an individual).
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Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"
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Of course of course this horse is a horse. This horse has been beaten alot already.
IMO is not the type of aircraft nor how many or their quality. It is the level of skill and experience of the players.
Pretense of this Game: More experienced players shall womp on less experienced players for years on end. Eventually after years of getting womped, the less experience players start to do some womping. The cycle repeats endlessly. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Any attempt to even out the playing field amounts to a handicapping system. The less skilled players should be given the higher handicap in order to compete evenly not vice versa.
I am a golfer also. I understand skill disparity, but this is like saying that you can't use a putter until you can break 80. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Creamo IMO, your plan, while very well thought out, seems to help the more experienced players who are already doing well. While at the same time increasing the difficulty for the less experienced players, making them do less well. You have just increased the handicap gap and more womping will occur. This seems backwards.
For me and my $30 bucks I want to fly any plane at any time. If that is not the case I will re-evaluate the game and my $30 bucks.
Salute! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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Not for or against....just asking.
Why is there a compelling need for this in the MA?
Cobra
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Simple... base it on the streak (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
If you killed 10 planes and landed all the missions while doing so - you can use the dweeb plane. If you die - you start over (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Makes people fly more... and fly starter..
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Originally posted by fd ski:
If you killed 10 planes and landed all the missions while doing so - you can use the dweeb plane. If you die - you start over (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Excellent idea!
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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How do you pick the best plane? I would take any of the planeset up. They all have streanths and weakness,s. If the big reward is the 1c, ill pass. the thing bleeds e fast, and gets it back slow.
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Its a plane that will be in the plane set in the future Easymo, HTC said in an earlier post that Maybe some sort of reward type of system might be considered.
So all we are doing is speculation
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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this is a game with no beggining and no real ending... People particitpate on different levels. Some have time to fly a hundred or more hrs a month while others only have a fraction of that time to spend. some care about score others don't. There are about a dozen aspects of this game and each requires a different "skill"..
Why give anyone an unfair advantage plane wise or position wise? Why reward one "skill" over another? Why make the game any more lopsided than it is? give everyone the same chance to start with and let em do with it what they will.
lazs
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Because Lazs, for the same reason you shine the hell outta yer new car and park in the closest spot to the entrance at work. HAving the cool toejam and people wanting it is just the way it is.
I'm not sure what all the "Elitist" referances are for, damn democrats! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) If someone is better at something, or earns the right for something it all isn't "fair" because everyone doesn't have it? Bah...
I really like the idea of having maybe a factory in a grid that makes the late-model plane, and if it gets wacked the country gets 0 aircraft of that type.
As for the argument that people don't have alot of time to get to the top 25 or 50, I agree. But that 5 - 10 run kill streak idea would handle that nicley. That's a real good idea.
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If there really was a way to say someone with a higher score is better or more elite Creamo I dont know if i would mind it so much. But lots of guys here have the skills to be in the top whatever. It is really a question of how you want to play the game. So people that want to play it a certain way are rewarded. and given a much larger incentive to make that "high" score happen.
There are people here that would get their buddies to start "extra" 2 week accounts to set up straffing of them for a night or two...and then fly around in their uber plane with out a qualm....
It is not worth there time now as there is little benifit to having a high score. But pur a carrot out there and see what happens.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Score is *NOT* a good indicator of skill, elitism, or worthiness. High scores tend to favor certain flying styles, not certain skill levels. Given two equally capable pilots, the one who hangs at the edges of fights waiting to engage already-occupied combatants, the one who runs from bad or even odds, or the one who vulches incessantly will almost always have a higher score.
Ultimately, it's about what is fun for the player. There's nothing inherently wrong about flying this way, but it's important to recognize that kills generated this way don't necessarily reflect more skill than someone who dives into a furball with reckless disregard for personal safety. It's all about different philosophies.
That said, how could we possibly reward players based on this criteria? If we're going to offer "elite" planes as incentives, we need a better methodology than score.
-- Todd/DMF
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Ok, Ya sold me on the score flaws. Good points.
Seems to me though that the Kill streak IS a indication of skill ala your winning the fights, and not losing yer plane.
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-11-2000).]
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In a real war it certainly would be. And such guys were made wingcomanders and got the best mechanics etc etc..
Which is what you are trying to show.
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Originally posted by Pongo:
In a real war it certainly would be. And such guys were made wingcomanders and got the best mechanics etc etc..
Which is what you are trying to show.
Someone earlier in this thread responded to this argument. In a real war, you wouldn't have the option of hanging on the fringes of fights, BnZing at will and then diving away to safety while leaving friends behind. The dangers and difficulty involved in "vulching" in real war were also significantly greater than those presented in Aces High.
In other words, if we're going to reward "elite" players with elite planes, let's at least reward realistic tactics.
-- Todd/DMF
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I was showing support for creamos concept from a historical context. I had allready disagreed with it from a game context.
I still thik uber planes should be realeased when a side is getting kicked...
IE down to 8 fields release one uber plane to them. down to 4 fields another..
People will say that that will just invite people to change sides when someone gets uber planes...
yup..
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I think the best pilots should have to fly Buffalos. Newbies should get the uberplanes.
eskimo
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I like your idea Pongo. Releasing the uber-planes as one side gets hammered on would tend to even the odds up in a couple of ways. The side getting smacked gets uber-planes to help stem the tide, and when they get uber-planes, some folks will switch sides to fly them and even things out.
Very nice, solves the availability problem and helps balance the arena. I like.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/ (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
- Steve Earl
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No i do not want streaks rewarded. This encourages pansies and vulchers. Vulching cuz a goon is OTW is 1 thing, keeping a base down for 3 hours just to vulch is another. If this was the case the bishops would always have the uber rides cuz they the most cowardly of them all (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I tend to fly till I die. Lots of people here dont. Thats OK, but the reason I have gone from crappy to decent in 2 months in this game is because you dont get experience by running and being a pansy.
All IMHO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Well not so H.
-Zig
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In WB they have "jet day". The 262 is enabled and anyone who wants to can fly it. Oddly, not that many do but... The jet causes more resentment than any other single item in the game. Parity is lost. If you win in a jet your victory is trivialized by the others. With even a few of em in the sky it ruins the game for the rest.
Seems to me that you are proposing ruining the game for the majority of the players. And you want it to happen every day.
lazs
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It's stating the bl**dy obvious, but there's no restriction on using the aircraft any way you like, so for those who want, set up a self-imposed regime and measure your self by your self. It's the ultimate measure (if you have to have a measure apart from FUN) IMHO.
eg.
- pick a number of flights per plane and use them all up before you can 'refresh' your set
- impose flying from field to field to rearm/reload then go back to a rear base and restart.
- 'earn' yourself time in planes you favour by flying and getting so many kills in a less favoured (by you) plane
... the possibilities are endless, tailor them how you like, tell other's what worked (for you) if you want.
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skeet - out
Aces High - Fight Stimulator
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that seems like a great Idea, as long as the standards for obtaining such a/c are not set too low. That way every tom, dick and harry would not have access to say... a spit XIV or Me262.
I think a great standard would be to maintain a 5.0 kill ratio (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) that would sure limit their use (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now I know people who would want a standard like "get to use this plane after you get 100 kills" but that would make no sense if you died 200 times while getting those 100 kills.....
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LOL skeet... You are of course correct. If someone is good, people will know. They don't need any special attention. Seems most are looking for a way to make their particular "skill" (mostly patience) validated. How bout if we just give everyone a chrome icon when they reach a personal goal if they so desire? I will take their word for it.
Oh, wait... There is a way to do this. Set asside a 2-6 hr period say once a week (move it around for the furiners) and keep track of who has the highest number of kills (deaths negate that sortie) in that time frame. The next day announce it here or somwhere prominant (maybe even a banner in Blue in the text buffer). This will give the "skilled" pilots the verification and attention that they crave..... It will be fair as it will be based on kills per time frame as well as survival. Everyone will have a relatively even chance at it and those who do not wish to participate can just ignore it. We could call it..... Oh.... "fite nite" or something.
lazs
lazs
[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 05-13-2000).]
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
I like your idea Pongo. Releasing the uber-planes as one side gets hammered on would tend to even the odds up in a couple of ways. The side getting smacked gets uber-planes to help stem the tide, and when they get uber-planes, some folks will switch sides to fly them and even things out.
Very nice, solves the availability problem and helps balance the arena. I like.
Tell a friend!