Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ice on February 16, 2001, 09:41:00 AM
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Sucks!
I don't understand a system that penalizes the player who does nothing other than saddle up on a bandit and pull the trigger.
In addition, there is no penalty for the encroacher...he simply flies away happy while you enjoy the view from the tower.
Am I alone with this thought?
Ice
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I am with you Ice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
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Not alone, but I can't think of a better way yet. And with the free-two week trial people I'd rather not have kill shooter off.
I fly the Yak in close, 100-300max, to get the most out of my small ammo load and it plain ole SUCKS to have an aircraft with a larger ammo load (Hogs, P-47 or 51 for example) come swooping in and spray the bandit from 800 back after I managed to get the bogy slow and ripe for delivering the coupe de grace in the first place (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-16-2001).]
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First, if you die by killshooter, you did something more than saddle up on a bandit - you would have killed a countryman.
Now whether he flew into harm's way or you were trying to shoot over a countryman's shoulder is another story.
Killshooter is a fact of life unfortunately. Online sims have been tried with and without killshooter and it always ends up the same - dweebs will switch to your country and then shoot friendlies as they take off.
In the scenarios, not only is killshooter off but friendly collisions are generally turned on. This is how it ought to be all the time IMHO but the dweebs force the issue to where you have to fly without collisions and with killshooter.
It isn't that killshooter "sucks". It's the dweebs that force killshooter to be required.
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
[This message has been edited by PakRat (edited 02-16-2001).]
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I thought the AirWarrior PNG system was pretty good. But, I can live with Killshooter.
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Huhm Reading the other day on the WWIIOL forums I read that the CRS was doubting if implementing a killshooter, or a FREEZEshooter...first time I read this.
But doesnt sound bad at all, the guy who hits a friendly gets frozen in the air for, say, 15 seconds (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
What do you think about this?
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I don't like killshooter but it's better than NOT having it. To many bellybutton wipes out there who won't fly to another base to get kills so they try to shoot friendlies.
Seen it in WB and FC.(FC was even worse cause you would lose you rank..Lost several Blue Max because of killshooter)
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Killshooter is a necessary evil.
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As I'm 400 yards back and starting to open up with my .50's only to see someone swoop by trying for a snapshot and causing me to recieve a few of my own pings I curse killshooter.
...then I look over my shoulder and see the 4 other friendlies behind me and realize the only reason I'm still flying is because of killshooter.
AKDejaVu
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man i remember aw with no kill shooter , im my opinnion it is a nessisary evil. shure sucked without it.
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Its a very rare occurance maybe once every 3 tours i kill myself cause a countryman pulls up under my guns.
Just so happens it happened last night, no one to blame but myself. I think its important to keep the kill shooter on or there would be far to much fraggin happening. Theres even a few Bishop that i would indeed frag on a regular basis.
BTW great fights last night Bloom & Wolf, you guys are pushing my Typhoon to the limits. But as allways, lots of fun. <S>
Dog out......................
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I think the responsibility is with the shooter. In a fight I try to get really close and when I see bullets flying pass me it's a hard call on if it's a "buddy" or not. I'm for taking kill shooter off as I believe that we would all watch our fire better. (I may shoot a chute but I wont shoot at my buddies)
However I am well aware that we do have some 2 year olds that like to play, so the AW PNG would be a good fix for those guys.
JMO PC
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All of you make sensible points.
I would prefer live ammo always, however, I'm sure I would get fragged as well...long time since I've heard that phrase WD (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I was always partial to the old PNG method in AWDOS.
Well, I'm not going to kid myself...I know that HTC feels it is the best solution, so I'll just get over it.
BTW...anyone who flies with me knows I don't pull the trigger until I'm inside of 300yrds...I'm just ina funk lately...hopefully it's over.
Thanks for your input.
Ice
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What do you think would happen if the fiendly that flies into the line of fire hears the pings from friendly hits on him, even if he doesn't take damage? Of course, since this is still a Killshooter method, the firing guy would still hear the pings and take the damage.
Thoughts?
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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One thing I really hate about AH is where you are on the six of a con, getting ready to make that kill, and some tit tries to shoot the con from behind you.
At this point, I check my six thinking I might have a problem, and consequently lose sight of the con.
If we didn't have killshooter, this would happen a lot more often.
grrrr
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Wow, I never thought this day would come. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I agree with RAM. <looks up to see if the sky is falling> (Just kidding with you RAM. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
I think "FreezeShooter" is a great idea. However, I'm not sure how much work it would be to implement such a thing. I recommend posting this idea in the Gameplay Feedback forum. It's the only viable alternative I've heard of to KillShooter.
You know one night last tour, I actually shot myself down THREE times. In one night! I'd be lined up hosing away behind a bogey in my Jug and WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM. Somebody pops up in front of me and I'm dead. The worst thing was that I was on this total hot streak. I got like 15 kills in a few sorties, and the only person to shoot me down all night was ME! Ahhhhh. D'oh.
The problem is that with netlag, it doesn't always look to your teammate that he flew in front of you. On his FE he may have been just flying off your wing or slightly behind watching. My gut reaction when this happens is to get pissed at my countrymate, but it's not usually something he did on purpose, and it is sometimes totally out of his control with lag factored in. It would be a great solution if I just froze in place for a few seconds instead of killing myself.
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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome! (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)
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The "freezeshooter" idea seems way too arcade for me.
AKDejaVu
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I agree Deja. Never ever seen a plane "freeze" and we aren't flying the VTOLs either.
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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Anyone that has not experienced a sim without killshooter need only the TA FFA. That pretty much sums it up... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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OK you get frozen, enemy flys by seeing frozen plane whats he gonna do ?
Cant shoot you cos your frozen outa the game, so on he flies 2 seconds later your back in the game and Hey would you believe it your right on the 6 of a con !
5 seconds later he's a flaming torch and the chat buffer lights up with a torrent of abuse about freezing cheats.
BBS is polluted for days afterwards with accusations of cheating and calls to bring back the good old killshooter days.
It could make RAMS posts about rear firing guns on tiffies look like nursery school stuff.
Having seen RAMS already reading this thread i better add this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Having made the obligatory mention of RAM in connection with BBS pollution I would like to say i had more reason than most to be pissed with RAM because when i joined AH He started a huge thread attacking my style of fighting with the OLD Tiffie and calling me a dweeb etc.
Now after a few weeks where i had ample opportunity to show that i could take him on and beat him the easy option would have been to ignore me and forget it but RAM emailed me apologised and said he was wrong.
It saddens me to see so many people hound him relentlessly everytime he sticks his head over the parapet, sure he openly states his opinion and like many others i think he's wrong a lot of the time, more so in the way he puts it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) but unlike many others i can recognise he still is entitled to freedom of speech.
RAM i hope you still have fun under whatever name you choose, and your doing a good job trying to stop the automatic i MUST make another reply syndrome (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by 214thCavalier (edited 02-16-2001).]
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Hee hee kieren.
Lastnight I had a guy "friendly" blow himself to bits as he tried to vulch me on the rw...Killshooter is a necessary evil IMO.
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Why not just make it so if you shoot a friendly, the rounds just dont do damage to anyone.
Its not like killshooter is that realistic anyways.
I am simply tired of shooting a bandit and some idiot flying THRU me and getting in FRONT of me.
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Hrmm...gotta chirp in here.
The 'freezeshoter' referred to (WWIIOL) would not cause the air craft to 'freeze' in midair, that is ridicolous. The 'freeze' would be put on the guns/cannons of the offending air craft, causing a weapons jam for x minutes.
Thank you.
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Gotta go with animal on this one. I always thought this would be the best way to handle it. Netlag makes the other options questionable. It takes no more then a glance back to see if its a friendly shooting, or not.
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 02-16-2001).]
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That's what I was going to suggest, Animal. The traitors can hose you down all day with no effect, and you'll never kill yourself when someone cuts in front of you. This way it could also lend itself to duels where you can score hits without bringing anyone down in order to perfect your ACM.
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animal has good point, i liked AW's PNG, but just making hits on a frendly not count seems
to be a good and easy why to do it
44MAG
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OR... killshooter could be on for recent defectors, new accounts, etc...
Just a thought.
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I like killshooter the way it is. It prevents dorks from switching countries and fragging people. It helps to keep guys from taking long range shots on the con your tracking. I really don't like the idea of no damage occuring to anyone, because you shouldn't be firing when your country mate flies in front of you...even if he is being an idiot.
The few times that I've been killed by killshooter when someone flew in front of me, I had at at least a few seconds before hand where I knew it was probably going to happen. I just kept firing, hoping it wouldn't.
SOB
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I agree that "FreezeSHooter" would be ending up as a cheat for squadies. If the situation called for it, one squadmate could "Timefire" at the other squadmate to freeze and get position on a bandit. Now that is lame.
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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
midnight@13thtas.com
"I see you have made your decision. Now let's see you enforce it." -Brandon Lee (The Crow)
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Midnight - see Jammoer's post. Apparently the "freeze" is only of the guns.
People should read the posts.
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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Why not just make it so if you shoot a friendly, the rounds just dont do damage to anyone.
The downside to this is that people will no longer have to consider that friendly plane in front of them. They can spray away without fear of reprocussion. Killshooter forces people to consider friendly planes in front of you. One promotes realistic engagement (even though unrealistic) and the other does not.
I like the way killshooter is currently implimented (in the MA). I cannot think of a better way to do it. So far, everything discussed in this thread as an alternative has been discussed many times before. Once again, killshooter emerges as the best comprimise. I cuss it once in a while, I just don't realize how often I should thank it.
AKDejaVu
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how about if instead of you recieving damage across your whole aircraft just your guns would be knocked out forcing you to rtb. I dont know if the damage you recieve with killshooter the way it is is matched with the hits you are getting on your countryman (like if i hit a freindlies left wing my left recieves damage). If that's the case then I'm not sure how hard it would be to change that so just your guns recieve the damage. Freezeshooter seems gay. If 2 people are chasing down a bad guy and an other bad guy drops in behind them what will stop the trailing dude to fire at his country mate? Then would it be instant stop? or would he warp? or would the plane still fly with all control frozen? anyway you look I'm sure there's a better way the the killshooter we have now.
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Pray not for an end to the slaughter...but for VICTORY!!!
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I was thinking freeze guns/controls. I like the "blow up the guns" thing though. Interesting.
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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome! (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)
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Interesting! What about having it just dump ALL of your ammo if you hit a freindly! If its by a pilot flying in front of you by accident you can RTB and replane and not ruin your kills. But it does not reward you or incourage you to change contries and frag others. I still like the old PNG idea too. I have seen a lot of same team planes jumping in front of me lately also. I have been in at 300 on an enemys six that I started 1v1 with them and died by my own fire as my own countrymen came in hot to steal the kill. I understand your original thought Ice... its not just you. But I am not sure that HiTech isn't doing the best that they can. What does everyone thing about the ammo dump thing?
Thunder
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
As I'm 400 yards back and starting to open up with my .50's only to see someone swoop by trying for a snapshot and causing me to recieve a few of my own pings I curse killshooter.
AKDejaVu
It wasnt me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Swoop (edited 02-17-2001).]
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This thread must have jinxed me. Until 2 days ago I'd flown AH since the first day of open beta, for a grand total of 1 death by killshooter.
Now, I suddenly have another 2 killshooter deaths in 2 days.
Ugg.. waiting for freezeshooter (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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I think killshooter is the best solution to the problem so far. In flying circus they had a neat (on paper) idea of making your plane have a black icon if u shot down a friendly.. Anyone could (and would) shoot at black icons. Trouble was... The guys who couldn't kill anything that knew they were the enemy or, who just wanted attention... just didn't care. they actually wore the black icon as a "jerk badge of honor". They basked in the attention.... The only attention they could possibly ever get.
lazs
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The "black icon" idea also meant that his plane was worth two kills. Man, how everyone used to just love it when someone's icon went black.
Of course, this was a downer to those that had black icons already (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
AKDejaVu