Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on September 22, 2004, 07:36:02 PM
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This guy got 54 victories in only 7.5 months of combat..
http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/w1/gb/cleavercam.htm
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He was one of the best, personally, I have thought for a long time that Raymond Collishaw http://www.constable.ca/colishaw.htm (RNAS, officially credited with 60 victories) was Canada's "greatest" WW1 scout pilot, in terms of leadership and personal skill, but MacLaren was a top pilot too...isnt it the case that a lot of the "lesser knowns" are so interesting? I find that a lot in history.
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"Was a canadian the best fighter pilot of WW1?"
Allied? Nope, apparently we hold the second and third places.
Col. William Avery "Billy" Bishop, with 72 victories.
Major Raymond Collishaw, with 68.
Top billing goes to British Major Edward Corringham "Mick" Mannock, with 73.
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I know, but 54 kills in 7 months?
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Bishop lied,
MacLaren was definatley one of the best. I always wanted to hear more about his "wrestling accident".
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Originally posted by Thrawn
"Was a canadian the best fighter pilot of WW1?"
Allied? Nope, apparently we hold the second and third places.
Col. William Avery "Billy" Bishop, with 72 victories.
Major Raymond Collishaw, with 68.
Top billing goes to British Major Edward Corringham "Mick" Mannock, with 73.
Who was in fact Irish and blind in one eye. But of course he was British as well.
I recommend Ralph Barker's book. 'The Royal Flying Corps' A very good read.
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Better research shows Mick Mannock probably scored @60 "destroyed". Thats from RAF records, personal accounts and other sources. Personally I think McCudden was the better pilot (another Irishmen, and a master tactician).
You have to be very carefull about victory totals. They differed as to how they were tallied in WW1 and WW2, and also by air force. Some countries went to great lengths to verify claims, others didnt pay as much heed to them. There is a lot of grey area with many aces "kill #s".
Just one example, some aces tallies include barrage balloons (WW1) or V-1 Buzz bombs (WW2), also some will include ground kills (a/c strafed). Some tallies include what we would consider today as "probables", and were not confirmed, some even include damaged claims, so always be critical of what you read in this regard. Its nowhere near cut and dry, I would say especially in the case of WW1.
Its hard to just look at kill #s, they will tell you maybe who the top 10 or so were, in each country, from then you can debate it untill the cows come home as it were, but its not a "provable" question. Who was the best? we will never really know.
I recommend "Air Aces" by Christopher Shores, its a good book and doesn't just copy all the old #s that other books do, it has some original stuff in there, very interesting...
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James Mccudden gets my vote. He utilized the abilities of his less agile but faster SE5a to defeat the German albatrosses.
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James McCudden was English, not irish. he was born in Kent. And he would probably be my favourite as best tactician / leader of the first world war.
Mannock (who was trained under McCudden btw) was ruthless, on one occasion he found a flight of trainee's, he firstly shot down the instructor, then hunted down and killed each and every one of the trainee's (6 or 7 if i remember correctly?) he also did not submit many of his scores, so his official score is less than his actual.
Albert Ball was another brilliant pilot, my personal favourite ace of wwi. For personal ability in a dogfight / against the odds either Ball or Voss stand out to me as the best.
As for Bishop, his score is very controversial.
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Man, I really wish someone would make another WWI air combat simulation/game... a good one that is.
-SW
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Verner Voss was the best pilot of WW1 in terms of flying ability.
everybody knows that
duh
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Define best fighter pilot :)
I would say the good old Manfred (von Richthofen) and René Fonck.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Man, I really wish someone would make another WWI air combat simulation/game... a good one that is.
-SW
I'd settle for a good movie complete with plenty of CGI.
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Heh, of course he was controversial. No way in hell did the Brits want a colonial to blow past the score of thier hallowed Ball. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Heh, of course he was controversial. No way in hell did the Brits want a colonial to blow past the score of thier hallowed Ball. :rolleyes:
its controversial due to the lack of claim paperwork and witness' to his claims.
Also what about Barker as best canadian? :) http://www.billybishop.net/barker.html
Originally posted by straffo
Define best fighter pilot :)
I would say the good old Manfred (von Richthofen) and René Fonck.
Red Baron was a cherry picker!! ;)