Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pongo on October 14, 2000, 02:29:00 PM
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Its one thing to fly the g6 against all the other allied planes witch are far supperior.
But why not throw a squad of uber typhoons in to..And a squad of b17s.
this scenario is stupid.
I am out
And thanks allies for letting illeagal dropins in p51ds do your work for ya too.
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Pongo is right on one account. There was a p51 at malta. Upon reviewing my film I saw the complaints in the text buffer and turn icon mode to plane type. The p51d that shot down pongo was some guy named Ecke . I wish I had thought to do this during the frame then we could've ejected this Ecke guy and I would've gotten the kill instead of the assist and the allies could've been spared the accusation of cheating from pongo, but I was pretty focused on the dogfight at hand, sorry .
[This message has been edited by Suave1 (edited 10-14-2000).]
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Is there a way to set up the Arena with a password, so that only people who register can enter?
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Wish I'd known you weren't committed pongo, and I'd have requested the flight leader job with the 109's, as 109's are my favorite plane.
You don't really think posting this helps anything do you? These guys have busted their tails setting this thing up, and ripping the hell out of it on the BBS, just because of some rouge amazinhunks only makes things worse. Look at the title of your post, good grief...
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In aw you could tell what plane a freindly pilot was in by the roster, maybe we need something similar .
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So what was your problem with the B17s ? We didn´t even reach the target...
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I'm sorry to hear that Pongo. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) But I still have faith in you and your squad's performance - I hope you reconsider and join the fight again in the next frame! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Todays frame was ruled a fun frame because of what happened. I don't know why "illegal" planes were enabled at those fields or why they were allowed to get as far as they did.
Like Hblair said, a few of us have put a lot of time to make this happen, so we're not too happy of these incidents. We'll look into it and have the CM'ing done better next saturday so this won't happen again.
Thanks for all who attended the event! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Axis CO - Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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I briefed Allies on reup conditions.. as gunner or goon only. No new planes. Rearm only.
Since A/C were allowed to refuel and rearm at any base; I tasked the second spit squad and the typhie squad to Malta Defense with refuel and rearm there. They did their jobs damn well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) <S!>
Sorry yah got aggravated Pongo.. from personal experience I can tell yah; allowing yerself to get worked up over the confusion and mayhem that goes with a 100 man scenario is a BAD thing. Hope to see you guys back up.. that was one heluva fight. Yer 109's outta Licata shredded my 3 b26's.. <S!>
Hang
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Pongo,
Why is a B17 Squadron stupid? It`s historical. B17`s flew in the Med.
Perhaps you weren`t there last Saturday when our B17 formation got chewed up by 205`s (maybe 202`s? can`t remember) because of lack of escort.
Perhaps you weren`t there last Tuesday when our B17 formation was chewed up by 109`s because our escorts valiant attempt to reach us was unsuccessful.
Were you there tonight when our B17 formation, after climbing for 2 hours, was told to RTB 25 miles from the target because of a lack of time?
It may be news to you, but some of us enjoy flying bombers. All those guys with the 346th deserve a Salute for sticking with it to the end, with good grace.
The CM`s are sorting the problems out...can`t you tolerate a FEW mistakes? We can.
Wilfrid
XO 326th BS
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hi Pongo:
sorry you are upset with the P-51, there was a P-38 as well that upped at the same time the P-51 upped. those in my squad,
RAF 234 Spitfire squad out of a15, tried to tell the P-51 and the P-38 they had to land because they where not suppose to be there.
griz even shot down the p-38 when we where returnning to base, but we are not counting that kill in the score.
yes Pongo, there where some problems, but they will get worked out. I really hope you return, this can be a lot of fun when it works, and people stop shooting at me.
wolf37
CO
RAF 234 Spitfire squad
Malta (a15)
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<S> to the guys who ran this today. I was in the B-17 group. Was shot down by some kinda ground ack near our landing base. I'm glad this didn't count!! We had one heck of a time getting in the air, but when we finally got started things went smoothly. May be we should make this a 3 hour deal.
I would agree some kinda password is needed to keep spoilers out of the arena(what a shame this has to be thought of).
All in all I had a good time and look forward to next week. <S>all CM's
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I will not be back Wolf.
I should not have been back today. If people want to have a historical reenactment I will participate in that. If they want to have a ballanced competition that has a fairly even chance for each side with planes that where there. I will participate in that. This had been set up to the maximume benifit of the allies. I guess that Hangtime just pushed over the others to get the orbat.
I dont want to play..
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Sorry u feel that way Pongo. I asked nobody for anything; including this Job. I signed on to lead a Buff squad. I did. They got wiped out by yer squad. I ain't complaining.
Zig asked me to do the Allied CO function after the second practice... I sure never asked for it.. and if anybody else wants the damn job; he's welcome to it!
The typhie squad got jumped by an Axis spit. They didn't squeak about it. Ding killed two LW pilots twice. Same pilots. He didn't squeak about it. One of our pilots killed that fediddlein rouge p38 at Malta. Sorry about the pony. He wasn't ours and we all hollered at him to leave. In fact he fouled my comms and I missed a critical SA report that DIRECTLY led to the loss of my B26's. Still ain't squeakin about it.
I certainly never asked Zig for b17's, p38's or typhies or anything elses other than goons. Ever. In fact we've yet to even exchange a damn Email.. all our comms were via textbuffer in public on general freq... including my request for the goons. Everything's on the up-and up here Pongo.
Really; kinda surprised you feel this way.. wonder what else is going on that I don't understand.
Hope yah come back.. this whole thing is ridiculous.
Hang
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i apologize to everyone for the trouble today. I was having trouble getting every thing set up the way i wanted it, several COs didnt show up, etcera. As for the typhoons and b17s, i think they are fair. if the axis a8 squadron had shown up they couldhave given the b17s a run for their money. and for the b1s not being able to get to target, i really am sorry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) mabye co should consider if mission is possible to cpomplete next time in 2 hours and use his base relocation accordingly.
i think once we get the kinks out it will be fun, but i realize that its not everyone's cup o tea.. i sure had fun in that crazy swirling battle with the tiffies till taht damned rogue pony killed my wingman. but for next time ill try to have all that stuff eliminated, but its hard working with so many people.
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Guys, don't get mad at each other. Let it rest for a day or so and think how it could be made better! I have a feeling we are all going to have to pull together to get it right and patience is going to have to be exersiced!! Pongo, don't pull out, give it a chance and pass along your concerns via e-mail of anything that may help the organizers. Those guys can't think of everything. I think if we hang loose things will improve,but it will take all of us to make it so!!!
Hangtime, you are aok in my book. Keep up the organizational thingie,you are good at it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S>ALL!!!!
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Zigrat,
No apology is necessary. I don't envy you or Busc or anyone else involved in setting this up for the hundred or so people wanting to participate.
In two years of WB's and 9 months of AH I had never joined one of the scenarios and I regret it now.
I'm grateful for the few hours of enjoyment every week. These scenarios are nothing like the MA environment and endless furballing and vulching. It gives purpose to the game.A re-enactment (however flawed it may be)of the battles I've read about over the years.
Thanks for the time and commitment, all of you..this is great fun! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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griz
THUNDERBIRDS
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-234 RAF- Malta
Med. League
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Dammo Zig; u got nothin to apologise for! Heluva good show; bud. Note there's only one guy singin sour grapes.. and aboutta 100 were there it seemed like. Kudo's to you and Busc! Good show!
<S!>
Hang
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what 1776 and hangtime said, not too many people brave enough to take this thing on like you guys have.
Tearing it down is real easy, its the building the thing that takes the skill. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
No apology necessary zigrat...
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hi:
there is only one thing I want to know, who where the JU-88 pilots that bombed a15, and witch one of you bums bombed my beer cooler.
do you know how much those danm B-17 or B-26 pilots charge to bring a new cooler over and more beer. well I can tell you right now, and with out a dought, my squadies are going to be pissed when I dock there pay to pay for it.
wolf37
CO
RAF 234 Spitfire squad
Malta (a15)
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Thanks for this event Zigrat, Hangtime
Too bad some off the uber luftwabbles didn't enjoy.
But i believe they have the big numbers and full squads, and we don't
Scenario's will grow and get better every time.
<S>
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Zig and Co,
My hats off to you guys. You had a difficult job to do and I think it came off pretty good considering how these things can go. I am still hesitant to sign up formaly because I never know if I will be available to fly and wouldn't want anyone to depend on me and me not show up.
Tuesdays are bad for me because I race online in a league that night and Saturdays and Sundays are iffy at best because I do try to give the family some of my time on those days.
I appreciate the fact that I was given a part in it as a walk-on and I had a lot of fun. I can see where I may have been better placed because there were a lot of P-38's and only 3 B-26's.
I enjoyed the time there yesterday and hope to be able to walk-on again if the time allows me to.
Good job to all of you involved in it. Hang you did great bud, <S>!
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MarkAT
"It is not the critic who counts,
it is the man in the arena..."
Teddy Roosevelt
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Have to agree with Hblair, and comments on an event that start as acidly as this one did are pretty hard to view objectively.
I know how hard it is to CM an event, I know how it feels when things go wrong. I know that CM's don't have "God Eyes", so though we can eject people, set arena parameters, etc., we still cannot see who or where people misbehave.
A lot of hours went into setting this thing up, and the people who did so did it so everyone, including themselves, could enjoy this sim more. They didn't do it to personally irritate anyone.
"med leage as stupid as I feared.". Sheesh! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
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One way to fix the party crasher walk ons maybe to check the roster at launch time and eject anyone who isn't in a squadron .
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Hey Wolf37, they got yer beer?
That is indeed unfortunate.:)
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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Wilf - from what you say, I can't see the B17s lasting very long in this scenario! Our squadron will be crippled within a couple of sorties without escort. We'll just have to see.
The CM task sounds a very difficult job. From the text buffer, they had to answer a dozens of questions at once. Perhaps more subordinates would reduce some of the workload and specifying an earlier time for the scenario would give everyone more time to sort everything out.
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Dowding
326th BS
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Our problem really is an incomplete historical que of A/C for the time, I believe the B17F was used during this campaign, no?
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Yup. B17F's. Liberators too. Lotsa b25 and B26's. P39's also; in the Typhies role.
All in all.. It seems to me we have a decent force match-up; and the Axis CO has his stinky-stuff well clumped together... we gonna have a tuff time crackin his defenses; just as he's discovering that whippin up on Malta is an invitation to a nylon letdown.
Well played Axis! <S!>
Hang
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Like people have said. Its not for everyone.
Its not for me the way it is set up.
I guess its not suprising that asking for it to be fair is whinning. I would hope that if points scoreing is set up as part of the competition. Some effort would be made to see that there was an equal chance. There is not an equal chance here.
My stupid comment was directed to the presence of Typhoons in the scenario. This is definatly stupid. It is an MA thing not a historical scenario thing.
Stupid
Stupid
Stupid
They never served in the med. No plane anyone can point to served in the med in this time frame with anything like the capabilities that have been knit into the AH Typhoon.
Maybe if the typhoon was like it was befor it got vitamins 2 months ago It would just be silly and dangorous to our 1940 bombers. But as it is modeled now it is wayyyyyyyyy unbalancing.
So I will stand behind my statment.
Stupid.
The buff is just unfair. If this is a copetition then why does one side need such an increadable advantage.
Axis bomber capability 1/3 rd of the allies.
Axis bomber ability to inflict dead interceptor pilots 1/3rd allies.
Allied jabo capability 1/4 th of allies.
The allies dogfight ability is about double the capability of the axis. For the most part that is just the way the planes were so no big deal. But in the abscence of a spit v squad and the inclusion of a Typhoon squad there is no excuse.
So why bother having the silly score system to see who wins?
Maybe the allies wont play if they cant have all the advantages?
I suspect that is the concern of the organisers.
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"Maybe the allies wont play if they cant have all the advantages? I suspect that is the concern of the organisers."
Jeese, your whining, snivley little 8 yr old side is coming thru loud and clear.
I can't wait to fly in a scenario or event that YOU design and implement.
-Westy
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Got Prozac?
Take it.
-SW
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I am whining...
Sorry.
20 years of designing scenarios and playing in wargame tournies has made me far too scensitive to competitions that are not fair.
I guess I let the concept of the score for the thing get me in despicable mode.
Good luck with the thing guys.
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Hiya Dowding,
Well the escorts the key. All escort pilots get 50% off their beer delivery bill, plus a free crate for every Axis plane they knock down.
All allied CO`s wishing to volunteer their squads services in the respect should talk directly to Hangtime. Try not to overload his mail server though, eh chaps?
Wilfrid
XO 346th BS
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"20 years of designing scenarios and playing in wargame tournies has made me far too scensitive to competitions that are not fair"
20 years ago??? when we went online with the sinclair? or the commodore 64?
where there combatsims in 1980?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Man i was 9 years old in 1980 i can't remember any puter that time, so it was before sinclair time that's for sure (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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It must have been a scenario for ...
"SPACE INVADERS"
10 frame events called
"return off the space flies"
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I forgot
LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Any scenario that is historically accurate won't be "ballanced" or fair. The war wasn't ballanced or fair .
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Bug. It was before computer war games..
Yes the real life med in 1943 was way more inballanced then this scenario. Of course it was. But you would get few axis pilots to vollunteer for that.
It is imposible to make it ballanced. Agreed.
My snivleing is because they seem to have gone out of there way to make it inballanced.
Which is allright, if you have some thing in place to handycap the supperior force in some way.
But clearly the scenario would be more ballanced with the typhoon squad replaced by a spit V squad. And the B17 squad replaced by a B26 squad. The allies still have a signifigant supperriorty especialy in jabo but the game is much more ballanced then currently.
The point system implies that each side has equal chances to achieve those points. This is not the case.
Well I got real carried away when I couldnt get down to help my buddies with the typhoons because I was dodging that p51. But of course that is not the fault of Zig(who was busy with the Typhoons) Camo, Busc or Hangtime.
Sorry again for the silly outburst. Have fun with your scenario.
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I personally think the P-38 could stand in for the Beaufighter seeing how it does really perform porrly lately. And the B-26 for the B17 I agree.
But.
I do believe the CM and scenario staff have discussed this and there are reasons for the choices they used. So if I could sign up. I'd go with the flow. And maybe next year it would be redone with ALL the correct aircraft. I'd actually would hope for an Afrika 1942 scenario. P-38G's, P-39's, Hurricanes, 202's, 200's, Me-110's, P-40's... etc...
-Westy
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322:
It must have been a scenario for ...
"SPACE INVADERS"
Oh...I feel old.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
A name out of the past.
I wrote "Space Invaders" using nothing but machine langiage for the Intercolor System back in 1978. Made a few bucks on that puppy.
Regards,
Badger
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Just for what it may be worth: <<S!>> to all involved in getting the thing up.
It MUST be a real pain to have such a complex event going. And AFAIK, this is the first big more or less historic scenario in AH.
On the bug plane, I'm sure It will be fixed.
On the unbalancing issue, you can agree or not, but the designing team has made their choices. IMHO, this has been a blast. Teething problems will be cured.
Thks. Busc, Zig, Hangtime et all for what it's been a tough job for you, and a big fun for me.
Cheers,
Pepino.
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Originally posted by Pongo:
Axis bomber capability 1/3 rd of the allies.
Axis bomber ability to inflict dead interceptor pilots 1/3rd allies.
Allied jabo capability 1/4 th of allies.
The allies dogfight ability is about double the capability of the axis. For the most part that is just the way the planes were so no big deal. But in the abscence of a spit v squad and the inclusion of a Typhoon squad there is no excuse.
And we still kick the allies' butt. Isn't that great? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Pongo, like you noticed yourself, designing scenarios like this is not easy, especially with the limited resources we have right now. But I still think this is an overall quite well balanced scenario, atleast if you consider the skill levels of both sides. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) But joking aside, this scenario is balanced well enough that both sides have equal chances of winning this. Hell, we captured a base with a ju88+C47 pair last saturday! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) In the end, it goes down to which team stays alive better. Deny the opponent of getting kills and inflict as much damage on their ground facilities. And yes, the allies have the hardware advantage, but we will win it anyway! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I still hope I'll see you in the event, even though you have decided to let go of your 109 G-6 squadron CO seat. If you have a recommendation to for the position, please let me know. <S!>
And volunteers can contact me at ville.pitkanen@hut.fi
Axis CO - Camo
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Camouflage (edited 10-16-2000).]
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We're using typhoons for hurri II's right ?
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Camo.
I will be there tuesday to help you guys coordinate. Somone with more backbone can lead the G6s..
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Uhm camo wasn't ur squad whiped out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Yep Bug.
Maybe because half of the pilots got some "Anti-Freeze liquid" in their blood.
Too cold up there....
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I kiled 2 of those damned typhies in my single 30mm g6. It can be done. Basically, they are dweebs flying the typhoon, while the real experten chose to fly the g6. <tounge in cheek> . G6s killed in the scenario, 3 were killed by p51s so i think if those damned things hadn't butted their heads in we would have been okay. Really ayt the altitude we engaged at (around 18k) the 109 is a fair match for tiffie. I am flying axis and I think we have a good possibility of winning. And for the b17s, well if our 190a8 squadron would show u0p they would be toast. After all our single cannon armed g6s managed to down 3/5 attacking b17s in practice scenario ando others went home smokin.
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Thanks Pongo, see you there! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Bug - can you tell me what happened to the allied airfield A2, about 15 miles West of the location where our squads had the fight?
Camo
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Camo who will be left to defend it against the mighty allies? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)