Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yeager on October 14, 2000, 03:23:00 PM
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HT and Pryo, you guys goofed big time bringing this thing into the game!
Ive just nearly had it with the UFO crap this thing pulls. Flop turns (reverses) gurggles (stalls out) and gains speed on me when I fly straight by it with NO LOSS of E...what the hell? Follows me and kills me with uber sucking dweeb cannon at maximum range. When I get into a good position in a fight with it, it flops about in a pitiful fashion, then recovers, follows me, gains on me, shoots at me in a hail of dweebery, gets a ping and I die. Over and over and over.
Check the FM data, if its bad fix it!
If it correct, well.....what the hell.
Get rid of it!
No other ride is as dweebful as this thing and you Chog pros are without respect! Gamers like battle on mars....crypes!
Its a dweebmaker in the extreme!
Its a gamers wetdream and without peer
in any decent simulation.
Ive gone long and hard to ignore this thing. I realize HTC needed a golden child to draw the in dweeb hordes but it really subtracts painfully from alll the good things that have happened with AH.
Can u tell? I dont piss and whine like a lot of people. Ive been happy mostly but Im getting very irritated with this thing!
Very......
And lazs, I dont care about charts and graphs! I dont carry them with me when I enter the virtual world of AH. All I know is this FM, this dweebery called the F4U1C is becoming destructive to my continued enjoyment.
I loved the 1D and was tickled when it came in, but when they annoucnced the 1C I said to myself, I said "oh no.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) "
Kevin
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 10-14-2000).]
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Agreed.
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Ive just nearly had it with the UFO crap this thing pulls. Flop turns (reverses) gurggles (stalls out) and gains speed on me when I fly straight by it with NO LOSS of E...what the hell?
Haven't noticed this any more than with any other aircraft since 1.04 came out. I fly the 1D this tour, but flew the 1C last tour and I cannot remember a single time that I caught a p51 in a flat run.
As for the plane being uber...
AKDejaVu has 5 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1D against the F4U-1C.
Granted.. I'd have a few more kills against them if .50s were a tad more lethal on snapshots, but there is nothing uber about the plane.
AKDejaVu has 5 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1D against the P-51D.
Wow.. just as many kills against P-51s. I do notice that most of my kills against both aircraft come from the other pilot not paying attention. Seldomely can I catch either if the pilot doesn't want me on his 6. I find that rings true with most aircraft in the arena.
AKDejaVu has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the N1K2.
I post this stat because I've seen more N1Ks than any other aircraft in the arena. I just can't catch the buggers.. and if I do.. they seem to be able to take incredible amounts of lead without taking damage.
AKDejaVu has 2 kills and has been killed 3 times in the F4U-1D against the Ostwind.
Now we see just why we need the F4u-1C in the arena. Very few other aircraft are effective against the Osty.
The F4u-1C can't do anything the Typhoon or the N1K2 can't do. F4u-1Cs are one of the easier cannon equiped aircraft in the arena to deal with. I prefer going up against one over a N1K or Typhoon any day. Can't really remember the last time I saw a 190.
The spits are pretty predominant too. I think I've seem more spits airborne this tour than I have since Tour3. They seem to be everywhere. Spits and N1Ks. Turning is paying off once again.
AKDejaVu
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The only thing that is even near "uber" about the -1C is the cannons, which are the best in the game.
Otherwise the plane is quite average.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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I really don't see what the issue is. The only C-Hogs that kill me are ones I don't see.
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Those F4u C's has some funny issues.. but I think that 'removing' it is out of options.
It should be altered a bit...
So far it does at least behave better than D hog and turn tighter too.
At least I feel take-off 'alot' different in D than C. (D is harder to take-off)
Here I can't say either that Tiffie wouldn't be miraculous.. that plane is a monster also.
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I notice 1.04 f4u's seem to have a better sustained low speed turning ability than p38's .
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Yes, but if you take out the C then the D pilots won't look as superior. Keep it in! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Just came from the arena, got 1 hog, made 2 auger "no kill awarded" and although I thought to myself "how does he have the E to do that?" I was never worried. Actually I love the chog, 90% of the time they go for the HO, and blow any chance of a good fight.
Makes me all warm and tingly inside (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) The other 10% of the time just makes it more interesting.
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Yeager
It's not a problem of F4U-1C, but the problem of new FM.
I've also noticed this:
You got the six (150-200 yards) of your opponent waiting for good solution for shot. Suddenly he got spin and you forced to overshoot. He quickly recovers then from spin just 100 yards behind you and shreds your plane. So you didn't make any mistake but was shot down by the guy who got spin trying to evade your fire.
In real life getting spin was the way to loose fight but definitely was not the way to get advantage. So this unrealistic spin recovery strongly needs to be reworked ASAP.
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I find N1K's much more bothersome than F4U-C's.
There are so many kidieniki drivers that when I see a chog, I am actually pleasantly surprised!
chogs are 109 food. N1K's are freaking UFO's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
I do agree that spin recovery of chog is a bit odd.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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I hunt the F4U's and the N1K2's relentlessly during my fighter sweeps. The ONLY good F4U is a downed F4U. A HAPPY Niki is a flamed Niki.
I got to admit though, the F4U-1C really excels at ground attack. I love JABO so I use it often.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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I was flying around offline, intentionally spinning aircraft. I over-loaded a 109 G10 with gondolas, full fuel, and a 250kg bomb. Once in the air I hit the camera and tried to spin it. The first time it didn't want to spin, and I had to force it into spinning by pulling up hard. The second time it went into a funny wing-slide, then snapped into a hard port spin. The clincher: from just 2 turns I could not only recover, but punch WEP and zoom climb away!
I did this in the C and D hog as well, minus film. I remember reading on Joe Baugher's page that the Hog, of what ever model, required 12 turns MINIMUM to recover from a spin. Funny, I recovered in just 2. Stick forward, opposite rudder, wait a second then punch WEP. Power on or off it made no difference, I could consistantly recover from a spin in just 2 turns. Here's the list I tested:
109 G10
109 G6
F4U-1D
F4U-1C
A6M5b
All were tested in both gross overload conditions [full fuel, max ammo, plus anything I could hang off the wings] and clean. The Zeke could never spin consistantly, and both 109s didn't want to spin unless I forced the issue. The Hogs spun, but it took a little coaxing before they'd do it. In every case, I could recover in 2 turns, add full power, and in the A/C with WEP I could zoom above 10k. That's the alt I started the spins at.
In gross overload conditions every aircraft should be prone to spin. Not to mention damn hard to get out of it. Not too long ago I got into a nose-up spin while driving a fully loaded Yak. Flaps down, stick forward, opposite rudder; 3 turns later I was pulling the flaps in and diving away at nearly 400 mph.
This has got to be fixed.
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
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The only plane I have ever been able to spin in aces high is the p51, and the only time I was able to recover it took 10,000 ft .
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Only planes I've ever got into spin that I haven't been able to recover has been P-38 with one engine and Yak.
Both have gone into somewhat impossible spin.
Spin where does not seem to have any difference what engine is doing or controls.
Plane falls tail end first..
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I agree with Santa. Chogs are not so bad compared to nikis. In fact when i see a cgaeue i smiled and kill it.
its easy to kill unless u go ho.
forgive me i am drunk
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Hog C has one bad problem, it's guns are somewhat powerful antitank guns, if you go compare those to any other plane (this does not include other hispano anti-tank gun equiped ones.. same gun in those then)
Those are out of match in tank killing..
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Well, once you get your time machine, you can go back to the 1930s, get a day job in the arms industry and then change all that, can't you fishu?
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duma, I think his point is that the way the Hispano ammo type is modelled now, they get ALL the advantages of AP AND HE, and none of the vices. HT said they used a "mixture" of common loadout configs to determine hitting power to simulate r rounds AP, one round HE, one round incediary etc.
The prob, of course, is if you take all these properties and put them into one single round. Then you have something that can destroy a tank but also blast (not tear or shear) a wing off an aircraft.
Anyone whoo has seen the damage done y a modern infantry carried AP shot knmows what I'm talking about. One was used by Bandidos at a Hells Angels place here some years ago - just a tiny hole in the wall. The person who was killed died because he or she was directly in the path of the grenade.
A HE round, and the building would have had substantial damage.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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Yeah I remember the pic of that building when the rocker-war raged, but I believed that was a hollow-charge that was fired right? I seem to recall several of the people in the house got burns.
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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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Should have been at the con Pyro had rounds from the 20mm there and the hispano's were much beefier so they would have a more powerful punch.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Indians Home page were links to help pages can be found.
Indian's Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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What Verm and Indian said:
In addition,
~ I think the P51 should be removed, its too uber, it can run from all other A/C. "Anytime you can engage, and disengage from the enemy, you've won already won half the battle"
Thus, it already has an advantage over 95% of the A/C in AH. Not fair.
~Niki should be removed, its cannons are lethal,and it can out-accelerate any F4U that loses E or is co-alt with Niki.
~Spit should be removed, it has the same cannon as F4U but can B and Z well, as can turn better than F4U.
~Tiffy should be removed, it has the same cannon as F4U-1C and is faster, as as nimble as the F4U below 15k
~Yak should be removed, though it has low ammo and 1 cannon, it can catch the F4U in level flight.
Need I say more? LATE MODEL PLANES (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 10-15-2000).]
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get rid of all of them
six shooters at 30 paces should be all 1.05
needs
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hmm
I was accused last night of being an HO dweeb by Mino. Thought it was funny because I NEVER fly the corsair, but for some reason decided to ride it for a change of pace. I was up with 3 enemies near a11, and I had a few friendly ostwinds (thanks Mighty1 dzd!) below me. I was just trying to drag them into the ostwinds. I'm not good enough to get that corsair turned around and I've read about the N1K being so deadly that he had me peeing in my pants lol. So I did what any brave fighting pilot would do. I dove for the osty! I think Mighty/dzd got all of them, and I may have gotten credit for one of the kills, I can't remember..
Anyway... I was killed eventually anyway.. sorry Mino if you thought I was trying to HO you on purpose.. I was only trying to save my cowardly skin, lol... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
What's my point?? Just that why bother complaining about this issue. I would prefer a historical time/plane set, but I know that doesn't always work..For now.. Find a way to beat it. I would think that would be a great challenge for all you expert pilots..
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About the only time I fly I Chog is when the alert sirens howl.. and it's BUFFS COMMIN!
The damn thing is mercilless against a Buff; and the loadout is sufficent to down 4 or 5 b17's or lanc's. And I've done it several timec.. (hangs head in shame) me culpa! For the homeland!
ATA against a Chog is a damn pain in the ass.. (gawd; I wish for a HA so my pony need not face these monsters) 2 outta 10 of these things are piloted by Gods; and they simply cannot be killed in a close fight by me.. pilot skills and knowledge of our camparitive stengths and weaknesses count the victory for the Chog.. he can turn better and has better low speed performance than a pony. If I can catch him while he's still fast I can turn all over him. Slow; he's as deadly as a spit ot nicki.. even more so when I see a front aspet shot commin up. Key to stayin alive around a hawg is to stay fast as hell and tag him when he gets buzy with somebody else.
What fouls me up the most is gettin outta the way of his shots.. all he's gotta do is hit me once... just once; anywhere; and I'm confetti.
Yah; it's a tuff plane. In the hands of a pilot like DMF; Torque and Duma, it's a very very lethal airplane. But then again; a ColtAN2 in those guys hands would give me fits too. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Nolo contendre. I don't advocate removing anything... but if it's FM is wrong, it should be fixed. That spin thingy I've seen, and marveled at.. hell my pony drops into nightmare spins that take frantic amounts of work and time to recover from. Them hawgs seem to levitate in spins. Wher'ed he get sucha big sack of 'e' anyway? I don't understand what the observed diffrences are between the 1c and the 1d. Ain't they both the same plane FM wize?
Hang
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Most everyone seems to disagree with me but thats what I expected.
Point One: the FM of the Chog most apparently has flaws (Much like the 190A5 pre 1.04).
Many planes have been sent to the OR for emergency rework. Some started with flaws, others received flaws in recent updates. With 1.04, the Chog has a problem. It retains energy beyond what should be expected and its continuous turn capability seems over extended. Its burst roll seems alright and its climb seems close enough.
Point Two: The guns. This is where Pyro and HiTech screwed up ever bringing the plane into the game. I dont suggest the guns are incorrect. I suggest the guns should never have been added, thus remove the F4U1C.
Far more F6F-5Ns were manufactured with the quad 20 package than the F4U1C so we should have that version as well? Some P51 varients had the quad 20 so lets grab that one?
Again:
The F4U1C has a generously flawed FM and needs to be reworked ASAP.
Bringing the quad 20mm F4U into the game was a mistake. It is unworthy and requires no mojo.
That is all.
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 10-15-2000).]
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Sheesh yeager:
You don't like the plane so remove it from the game. What kind of sense does that make? Can I start picking planes I don't like and have them removed?
Think about what you are asking here.
Hooligan
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Hooligan; Yeags been around for a long; long time. He don't cry wolf, and is certainly entitled to an opinion, and be heard.
He's not advocating that everybody gets to have their most hated plane removed in some kind of 'ok, it's your turn to pick one to boot' format.
He's pointed out that he perceives attributes to an A/C that disrupt the MA. We may all disagree that the plane should be removed from play, but the perceived attributes still remain... and his point regaring FM and subtle FM changes is certainly valid... something seems not right.
If nothing else, if it prompts Pyro to recheck the F4U1c's FM (and I hope the niki's too) then well and good.
On a lighter note, gimme a plane to fight a niki with.. a F6F-5N w/2 2Omm and 4 '50's. Oh yah. I like that idea. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 10-15-2000).]
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Last night I was on high patrol in my spit and spotted a low-e hog. I was out of cannon, and had only 91 rounds of mg left. I decided that whatever I was going to do I would hold my fire until I was close enough for a sure kill.
I just WEPed in behind him, and held my fire untill I was D-200. Released the trigger at D-100 when he was nothing but fuslage. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Easiest kill I have had in months.
The dude sent me a personal 1 min later,... he was in the can. LOL
Otherwise, hogs seem to be able to outmanuver my spit at all speeds. I have been doing much better against them in head-ons. Even the Zero HOs a C-hog well.
eskimo
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Take the Chog out put the F4U-4 in, other wise dry yer eyes and play.
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Originally posted by flakbait:
I was flying around offline, intentionally spinning aircraft.
Wish I found it as easy as you. Even if I pull out of a spin quickly I'm very vulnerable for several seconds until I build up speed not to stall again. And I see ppl still have E after spins...amazes me personally.
The 109's (I can't do it regularly in any other plane) have a habit in my experience of going into flat spins. 9 out of 10 spins I get into by accident are flat spins...and I'm usually screwed after that.
Wingnut
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Originally posted by indian:
Should have been at the con Pyro had rounds from the 20mm there and the hispano's were much beefier so they would have a more powerful punch.
Yea yea.. and 37mm looks more beefier too
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Hi hooligan (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I think what I would like is for HTC to take a good, long and hard look at the F4U1C just to make sure its matching up to their high standards. The guns are operating fine IMO.
If Pyro comes back and says the F4U1C does what they want then Im justifiably squelched
and will go back into the background noise from which I came.........
FWIW, N1Ks havent bothered me but I dont think I have many kills on them.
Yo HangTime <S>
Yeager
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I'm with Yeager... and its not just cos hes got a cute butt.
The C-Hawg and N1ki are two freaks. I've seen some wierd bellybutton stuff from these planes.
What I find wierd is its harder to fight a dweeb in a C-Hawg than an experienced/good pilot. Simply because the dweebs will do wierd sh*t and take pot shots from D1.x - spraying away and eventually landing that magic BB from d1.2 that tears ur plane apart. IE sacrifice all advantage for a cheap shot.
Fighting guys like Torque etc they tend to fight like they don't have magic laser cannons and fight to keep a good position.
I think thats the problem, N1ki's and C-Hawgs 8 out of 10 times take a cheap shot that would normally see any other plane dead. N1ki's ain't so bad as their guns don't seem to be the laser cannons the hawg uses.
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I've decided not to fly the F4u1c at all this tour. not because its dweeby or uber or what have you. I'd just rather fly the F4u1d when in the mood to fly a corsair as its got those 6 50cals used by thousands of f4u's in combat that scored thousands of kills. when I want to fly a 4 20mm hispano armed monster I fly the typhoon.
the f4u1c is just a cross dressing drag queen of a typhoon with better high alt performance and larger amunition load.
I dont think the f4u1c needs removing but I do think it steals the spotlight from the typhoon in the air to ground department.
no justification to remove it though. just add a 6 50cal armed f4u-4 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I wonder if a good compromise would be to use the chog FM on the dhog and let it be the only corsair in AH.
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It is a perk plane. You have all earned it.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Drex
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After getting shot down by a F4U-C, a pilot from JG2 took up a C-Hog in order to "get revenge"! He flew across the mountains to A22 and racked up 4 kills without breaking a sweat.
He kept saying over RW, "This thing is amazing!" He just aimed at an enemy plane, pulled the trigger, and BOOM! He was laughing the entire time!!
I dont know if it is so-called "uber". I know when I see one coming I get out of it's way. My rule is, do not get within +/-45 degrees of it's nose or you're gona die. I've seen F4U's with no lead on me, and the angle increasing, blow off my wing with one burst.
Just too many strange things!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The F4Us tonite acted pretty good, but once in awhile I see some strange crap with the F4U.
That's all from me! Have a nice day!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I have been actually attacking on planes with half wing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I've also killed couple tanks with both wingtips missing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Hi
I flew the chog a lot last tour and my favorite kills were the ones with half a wing. I remember this one sortie where I had 5 or 6 kills, all but one of which was without a wing. Anyhow its too damn easy to kill in plus it really does encourage dweebish HO and run behavior cuz theyll just weigh the odds and figure that its in their favor to HO rather than work for a tail shot. I wonder what would happend if we flew 1 tour without the chog? Would people cancel their accounts and quit in disgust?
How bout it HTC, next tour no chog, just to see what happends? Please?
thanks GRUNHERZ
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I hope my opinion is as valued to htc as any customer and ive got to say i agree whole heartedly with yeager
no other plane has got me so annoyed.I have flown the f4c every now and again after being killed by one in a situation where i think 'no way could a plane do that' and i angrily go to test it..each time ive killed 4 or so with a few pings on each kill...i felt they were cheap kills and extremly easy.
I CHOOSE not to fly this dweeb crate and i would prefer not to fight them but i wont demand they be removed.not my call but my vote would be BURN IT (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I have seen some weird plane wobbling and wobbling, enough so that I thought that they had spun out.
What I found out is that they really had not spun out, but the FE fooled me. For some reason at times planes go into a very fast gyration or wobble. I am not sure how or what causes it, but I have found that many times they are not spun out.
The tricky part is that you can't tell the difference.
RBNN;
I am glad that you took my remark good naturedly as I intended it to be. If you have taken offense please accept my apology.
That is my pat response to those non-ACM hide behind my big bad guns chog drivers. Did the man or the machine beat me? With a HO like that, it was the machine.
But...
In all honesty, it was actually a poorly timed lead turn on my part that led me to my doom. However, I did notice that you made no attempt to avoid HO, thererfore "HO dweeb".
If you do it, you wear it.
Salute! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Yah; it's a tuff plane. In the hands of a pilot like DMF; Torque and Duma, it's a very very lethal airplane.
I don't understand what the observed diffrences are between the 1c and the 1d. Ain't they both the same plane FM wize?
Thanks for the compliment Hang, but I don't think I've flown the 1C once since the Tiffy came out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The 1D is truly fantastic in the new version though.
I'm not sure about the difference between the 1C and 1D, can't say I've had much trouble dogfighting with Cs in H2H. (Against pretty experienced pilots too)
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LOL Swager, I did the same thing, but with a N1K couple days ago. I got so annoyed with all the N1K's I decided to fight fire with fire. I've hardly ever flown it since it was introduced because I feel it is to easy a plane and requires no skill whatsoever to get kills in (like the Spit), and I proved that to myself the other day again. Disclaimer-The previous statement is nothing more than my opinion!
Since 1.04 I've been struggling getting kills in my P38, first it was the 1C, then with 1.04 patch 4 it was the N1K. Couldn't take it anymore the other day and jumped in a N1K, first time in a couple tours. I proceeded to rack up 4 kills and hadn't even used half my ammo, coulda rtb'd, but I was in 'quake' mode and finally got bounced from hi 6 while lining up my 5th victim in a furball. Now I have been recommending the N1K to any new commer to the arena who asks what a good plane is to start with. Anyone can kill in it, it requires no skill what so ever to fight in IMHO. It's a plane for 'scorepotatos' and new 'sticks'. I mean no disrespect to the people who regularly fly it or to people who fly their own 'country' iron. But it has definately taken over from the Spit and Zero as a 'guaranteed' killer with no real weaknesses.
As for the orginal post by Yeager, I agree, I don't think it should have been introduced to the arena masses, very few actually were made and seen combat, and therefore I believe it should be a "Perk Plane" (1C).
Since the boost to the N1K, they (1C) haven't bothered me as much anymore, and I try to have major alt (20k min) before any engagement these days. My amount of enjoyment in the MA has gradually been decreasing since 1.04, and if it wasn't for the Med League I'd take a step back for a bit like humble did. Pre 1.04 I spent most of my time on jabo and ground vehicle missions having a blast, but post 1.04 I've just been struggling to relearn how to fight and survive in my P38 in the MA, I don't have time for anything else yet!
Real men fly the biggest fighter target in the sky with no fear! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Oh yeah, and an extra engine to get you home when you get to cocky LOL.
ts
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Again:
The F4U1C has a generously flawed FM and needs to be reworked ASAP.
What is flawed? How is it flawed? How much is it off? How is it generously flawed???
Tell me the guns are powerful, and I will agree with you. But they should be. And anything in this game with 4 x 20mm cannons on it are damn lethal. The -1C, Typhoon, N1K2, or the Fw190A8 will all shred you with a single burst inside of 400 yards.
Hell, even a Spitfire with only 2 cannons will disable my aircraft in a single burst if I get hit by it.
But complaints about the FM of the -1C without some kind of numbers, proof or other
supporting data, is just that. Complaints. Complaints that are devolving into constant whines.
If the FM is so generously flawed, it should be pretty damn easy to prove shouldn't it?
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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If you can come with facts and data to prove that the flight model is incorrect, then I'm pretty sure HTC is open to changing it to more closely match your hards facts. You have to keep in mind that folks like F4UDOA , Lazs,and Wells DID have facts and data to prove it was NOT the correct flight model, and HTC changed it, so it's not your Daddy's porked-Four-U anymore.
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I'm glad to see these other planes garner so much support. One of the many pleasing perks for me flying the 51 exclusively is that there are not 50 of them in the air on any given night.
Since 1.04, it seems there are less 51's in the air and more of these so called uber rides. I enjoy killing them inspite of their superiority (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I tend to agree with Yeager in that perhaps it should not have been introduced into the arena in the first place....but, it's here and I doubt HTC will remove it until the perk system is in place.
It is my position that we should not expect so much from a Sim run on a PC. What HTC has done is indeed impressive and I'm grateful to toss them $30.00 a month....there is a good reason for the software side of a real flight simulator costing into the millions of dollars and I'm willing to bet that the last thing the majority here would want is true realistic flight....most would not be able to get into the air much less fly and actually kill anything (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ice
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Swager,
Up the thread a ways you mentioned "F4U's with no lead on me, and the angle increasing, blow off my wing with one burst." That isn't a function of the plane itself, it's an effect of net lag. Remember, what you see on your FE and what the other fellow sees on his FE are disconnected by some period of time. What this means is that if you are watching out your rear view for the other fellow to pull lead before you evade, you will die. On your FE, you will be shot before you ever see the lead. It's the nature of the beast.
This effect is exagerated if the attacker has a high closure rate. If he is gaining on you quickly it will look even farther off, and can surprise you. Just remember that in online combat, you may die before you see the other guy even get to pure pursuit, so give yourself some extra leeway in that area.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I was attacking the Bishop base 22 last night in an Ostwind.
I only saw 3 plane types ever took off.
That was it in about 1.5 hours
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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Here is a list of each nation's top fighter or fighters as well as the Panzer IV H and Ostwind, with their K/D rate in Tour 9 of AH. I have removed each units kills vs. itself for the purposes of this comparison. Units are ranked in order of K/D, from highest to lowest. Obviously there is a HUGE difference in the frequency of use for each unit.
The Panzer IV H has 4895 kills and has been killed 2620 times for 1.87 kills per death.
The F4U-1C has 7297 kills and has been killed 4792 times for 1.52 kills per death.
The Ostwind has 7863 kills and has been killed 5744 times for 1.37 kills per death.
The Typhoon Ib has 2268 kills and has been killed 1832 times for 1.24 kills per death.
The Bf109G-10 has 2482 kills and has been killed 2089 times for 1.19 kills per death.
The N1K2 has 3968 kills and has been killed 3387 times for 1.17 kills per death.
The Fw190A-5 has 987 kills and has been killed 944 times for 1.05 kills per death.
The Yak-9U has 1190 kills and has been killed 1176 times for 1.01 kills per death.
The P-51D has 2727 kills and has been killed 2825 times for .97 kills per death.
The Spitfire MkIX has 3701 kills and has been killed 4050 times for .91 kills per death.
The C.205 has 464 kills and has been killed 654 times for .71 kills per death.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Sisu, everytime someone posts the stats, I think to meself.."Planes that don't get much attention, don't get many kills.." I.E. if everyon flew , say, the Macci 205 for a tour, it would rise to the top of the stats.
Another thing the stats don't show is how many times a plane augers trying to kill a tank, I believe 90% of my A/C kills in a tank are due to the pilot augering...
Another thing is, when folks start calling one plane type Uber, like the niki, then all the newbies start flying it, thus lowering the stats for the niki.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
So much for validity of stats.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 10-16-2000).]
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The F4U-1C has 7297 kills and has been killed 4792 times for 1.52 kills per death.
2318 of these kills were of Panzers, Ostwinds, M3's & M16's. The primary roll of the F4U-1C was a close ground support if I am not mistaken.
Subtracting these kills from the total leaves the F4U-1C with 4979 air to air kills.
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Originally posted by Minotaur:
LOL (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I was attacking the Bishop base 22 last night in an Ostwind.
I only saw 3 plane types ever took off.
That was it in about 1.5 hours
[/b]
Must have missed my Spitfire Mk V and Typhoon sorties then =)
Had a blast trying to drop on pair of 1000lbers on various Ostwinds, don't think I ever managed it, but I got a few with cannon.
Even survived long enough to refuel/rearm three times at one point.
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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>
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Rip and Verm,
I didnt have *Facts and Data* on the 1.03 190A5 to know that it was totally hosed.
Yes, I keep telling myself to get some good source information on WW2 aircraft performance but I havent yet (any suggestions?).
What I do know is that all my time online has given me a good general purpose education in all AH aircraft types and how to expect them to perform in a ZILLION different combat situations. The F4U1C is pulling some tremendous doozies in the open arena. FWIW, I did see a N1K do an unbelievable move at 20K but it has not happened enough (to me) to get the old eyebrows all standing on edge!
Also saw some Spits doing incredible energy moves but none since patch 5. Yes boys and girls, there are more fixes coming, I can rest assured on that count! And its a dam good thing too! HTC will get it figured out!
Yeager
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LOL. If HTC rechecks the planes FM's; and takes this commentary from the masses for whats it's worth, then this was a good thread; a good thing indeedy.
Impressions count. First impressions count big. The impression I get when reading this thread is that the 1c is outta place in the MA.
I wonder how many newbie pilots hop right in that thing after gettin hosed outta the sky by one. Then discover that to fly it well takes skill and practice, so they leave; feeling disgusted. Can't be good for buisness. But there's other ways to look at it too. Glad it ain't my decision. I just pays my money; and takes my chance. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yeag; gotta say tho (tounge in cheek) that if we had a HA, we'd not have to worry about 1C's.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Graywolf;
If you were their I certainly missed you, because I had quite a few kills that 1.5 hour. None were Typhies or Spits. At one point Craven had a 20 kill streak in place.
Salute! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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Some of the guys that fly F4u's dont fly anything but F4u's. That makes them real hard to kill. I am 1 of those guys. I have it understood that the F4u 1c and the 1d have the same FM. I have flown both and only prefer the 1c because of the cannons. I figure as long as everyone is flying late war planes with cannons why does flying a late war F4u with cannons make me a dweeb???
If they implement an RPS I will fly the 1d happily because I love it. I dont think its uber though!! I go out of my way to attack F4u's regardless of what plane I am in because most guys cant fly it right. I agree with some of the earlier post regarding the spin recovery. I think that WB has that modeled better in all the planes (Its harder and seems more realistic)!! Fix the stalls and implement an RPS and it will fix the whining. You guys have to realize that plane had a 11.5 to 1 kill ratio.
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Against Zeros Chango. That isn't saying much. If you have the speed to get away from one, which all US planes have except the P26 Peashooter, then you can get an amazing kill/loss ratio. One pass, 6x.50s blasting away... bye bye zero.
-SW
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Originally posted by Chango:
Some of the guys that fly F4u's dont fly anything but F4u's. That makes them real hard to kill. I am 1 of those guys. I have it understood that the F4u 1c and the 1d have the same FM. I have flown both and only prefer the 1c because of the cannons. I figure as long as everyone is flying late war planes with cannons why does flying a late war F4u with cannons make me a dweeb???
If they implement an RPS I will fly the 1d happily because I love it. I dont think its uber though!! I go out of my way to attack F4u's regardless of what plane I am in because most guys cant fly it right. I agree with some of the earlier post regarding the spin recovery. I think that WB has that modeled better in all the planes (Its harder and seems more realistic)!! Fix the stalls and implement an RPS and it will fix the whining. You guys have to realize that plane had a 11.5 to 1 kill ratio.
When I flew F4u C just for a test, I got accustomed to kill without wingtips within early stage when I wasn't even supposed to be accustomed to fly completely intact plane.
A bit later I found out that F4u C is pretty lethal... just quick burst and your target blows up (with some rare exceptions where doesnt)
If you haven't noticed, C also maneuvers better than D, with the cannons.
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Originally posted by Apache:
2318 of these kills were of Panzers, Ostwinds, M3's & M16's. The primary roll of the F4U-1C was a close ground support if I am not mistaken.
Subtracting these kills from the total leaves the F4U-1C with 4979 air to air kills.
I hope I am not mistaken that most tanks of that class in real war were dealed out with bombs and rockets, more than with cannons..
Subtracting of kills makes it just look innocent compared to others, when it is real 'hog' with the cannons.
If we wan't to get even, we can also include vehicle kills for other fighters..
Other thing is that I don't believe in statistics, I only believe on that what I see and experience.
Why don't I believe in statistics?
There might be plane that is modelled up in accident, but it might have been flown by many newbies because plane is famous and therefore that adds # more deaths.
Same goes vice-versa, if plane has little fame and flown only by some nuts that want's to be ace in it, kill ratio can get really boosted up and cause false illusion of planes ability.
I give you a good example; I have something like 2.5:1 Kill to Death ratio in Ju-88, thats more than many has in a fighter.
So, conclusion must be, Ju-88 is kickass fighter with a bomber capability.
right or wrong?
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kill the chog kill the chog (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
seriously, HA is the answer i think.once we have Pacific theatre and euro theatre it wont be such an issue to me cause ill fly euro mostly and i wont see the damn chog (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(btw i dont care if there was very small number given to British...they dont belong in Euro theatre (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
hazed JG2