Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Muckmaw1 on September 25, 2004, 08:55:06 AM
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I log into the MA last night and a Squaddie of mine who is not prone to practical jokes said there was a new Grumman fighter being tested at the con.
He said there was mention of it but I'm looking for a confirmation.
He said is was an F7F Bearcat...which does not really pan out.
The F7F was a tigercat of which only 2 were ever built.
The Bearcat was the F8F which saw limited is any service in WWII.
Whats the story Cons?
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There were way more than 2 F7F built. But I don't think they saw combat in WWII.
I hope we don't get the F8F, we don't need any didn't-quite-make-it uber planes.
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I hate to contradict you Ra, but I volunteer at a museum dedicated to Grumman Aircraft. There were only 2 built. I also double checked it in 2 Aircraft Encyclopedia's. Only 2.
In a way, I agree we don't need an uber F8F. It is smaller, more maneuverable, and climbs 30% faster than the F6F.
However, being a fan of the Ironworks, this plane would make my nipples hard.
Now, did the F8F ever see combat in WWII? No. But it was aboard the carriers and in the pacific theatre in the srping of '45.
Anyway, any truth to this rumor?
I'm going to go buy some Udder Balm.
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You must be thinking of a particular sub-type of F7F. Hundreds were built. Several units were equiped with them in Korea. There are more than 2 still flying.
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
I hate to contradict you Ra, but I volunteer at a museum dedicated to Grumman Aircraft. There were only 2 built. I also double checked it in 2 Aircraft Encyclopedia's. Only 2.
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If only two were ever built then where are they today?
I just wonder since I have seen two personally ..... And IF only two were ever built.... I find it surprising the manner in which one of them is being kept today.
I would think the museum would know if its rarity and treat it a bit better.
Perhaps Grumman would want it back?
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Number Built: 364
Number Still Airworthy: 6
Source: http://www.warbirdalley.com/f7f.htm
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Maybe there going to release the A-6 or F-14, .
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Originally posted by ra
You must be thinking of a particular sub-type of F7F. Hundreds were built. Several units were equiped with them in Korea. There are more than 2 still flying.
You know what. You are quite correct.
I accidentally switched the numbers in my mind.
The F5F Skyrocket had only 2 prototypes built.
The F7F Tigercat saw 364 Produced.
Sorry about that. Just got the numbers crossed.
So did they fly a bearcat at the CON or was it BS?
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Both Grumman F7F Tigercat and F8F Bearcat did not see action over WWII and they were pretty much close to see action over Pacific War in 1945.
After WWII, Tigercat and Bearcat remained in the service until Bearcat was giving to the French and F7F stay with USMC until Korean War ended.
F4U-4 was last one for new fighter before Bearcat arrive.
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at chino i saw i think it was 2 F7F's flying.
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Originally posted by ra
There were way more than 2 F7F built. But I don't think they saw combat in WWII.
I hope we don't get the F8F, we don't need any didn't-quite-make-it uber planes.
im sorry but it did make it. it was on combat duty aboard the
USS Langley, with VF18 and 19. it was in production and in squad service before end of ww2, so eventually it should be here.
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Combat duty. But did they see combat?
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Bristol Bulldogs were on combat duty in WWII, saw combat, even got kills.
http://www.dalnet.se/~surfcity/bulldog_finland.htm
Doies this mean we'll see it too, eventually? Would be a nice matchup against the Bearcat.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Source: http://www.warbirdalley.com/f7f.htm
364 counts the prototypes. 362 production models were built.
;)
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
In a way, I agree we don't need an uber F8F. It is smaller, more maneuverable, and climbs 30% faster than the F6F.
I really want to bite & make a comment about the possibility of a Bearcat and/or a Tigercat in AH. But, I smell a hook.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1095670056_bobbs.gif)
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If there is a "new" grumman plane coming I would venture a guess that it's the F6F-3
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Originally posted by Soulyss
If there is a "new" grumman plane coming I would venture a guess that it's the F6F-3
O, man!!! I remember - quite a while back - asking for a Hellkitty with cannons!!! O, now I'm drooling.
(daydreaming) "Could it be???"
(daydreaming) "Could it be???"
(daydreaming) "Could it be???"
(daydreaming) "Could it be???"
:eek:
source (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christophe.arribat/stoff6f.html)
The F6F-5 replaced the F6F-3 on the factory line in the Spring of 1944, and was built until the end of the war. It featured a modified cowling and canopy, and the P & W R-2800-10W engine with a water injection boost system. The F6F-5 was able to carry external fuel tanks, rockets, or a pair of 450 kg (1,000 lb) bombs. It was called Gannet Mk.II and later Hellcat Mk.II by the British Fleet Air Arm.
7,870 were built, including a few interesting subversions: the F6F-5E (with the AN/APS-4 radar) and F6F-5N (with the AN/APS-6 radar) were night fighters, armed with two 20 mm cannons and four 12.7 mm (0.50 cal) guns; 1,434 were built. The F6F-5P was a photographic reconnaissance version.
[/b]
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
I really want to bite & make a comment about the possibility of a Bearcat and/or a Tigercat in AH. But, I smell a hook.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/77_1095670056_bobbs.gif)
Fear not the hook for there is none there.
Go for it. This is an honest discussion...so far.
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You guys have all got it wrong, this is the new Grumman....... :)
(http://www.gooseforsale.com/images/Gooseflyby.jpg)
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I have it from a good source that the new Grumman bird is a perk bird to help beat those pesky LA-7's :D
(http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/f14/images/tomcat5.jpg)
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
Fear not the hook for there is none there.
Said the fishermen to all the little fishies in the sea... :lol :D
I'll just stick to the Hellcat with cannons, for now. Thank you. :)
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Originally posted by whels
im sorry but it did make it. it was on combat duty aboard the
USS Langley, with VF18 and 19. it was in production and in squad service before end of ww2, so eventually it should be here.
VF 18 and VF 19 had the F8F not the F7F, the F7F did not make it to operational status.
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Originally posted by whels
im sorry but it did make it. it was on combat duty aboard the
USS Langley, with VF18 and 19. it was in production and in squad service before end of ww2, so eventually it should be here.
Seems like this has come up before. F8F never saw combat.
If you add that, you'd have to add the P80 as at least it was in theater with the 1st FG in Italy. Of course then you'd have to add the Meteor as it at least fired it's guns in anger. Then you'd need the Volkjager, and on and on.
Too many planes that actually participated in the conflict that should come long before the might have beens, had no impact on the war types.
Dan/Slack
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"Too many planes that actually participated in the conflict that should come long before the might have beens, had no impact on the war types. "
This is only relevant for people who are actually interested in somehow re-creating WW2.
IMO, since the MA in no way represents any past war, plane additions should be chosen more for usefulness and how well they "fit" in the MA than worthless factors like nationality or WW2 usage (and if I had my way, there'd be several different arenas with different eras of airplanes available, instead of a single MA). A better argument against the "uber" propeller planes like the Sea Fury and the Bearcat (especially the 20mm ones) is that they're simply "too good" to make for good balance against the majority of piston-engine fighters.
Personally, I view a transport as the single biggest plane type AH2 needs as an addition since it's a much-used type with only a single model to choose from currently.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
I hate to contradict you Ra, but I volunteer at a museum dedicated to Grumman Aircraft. There were only 2 built. I also double checked it in 2 Aircraft Encyclopedia's. Only 2.
In a way, I agree we don't need an uber F8F. It is smaller, more maneuverable, and climbs 30% faster than the F6F.
However, being a fan of the Ironworks, this plane would make my nipples hard.
Now, did the F8F ever see combat in WWII? No. But it was aboard the carriers and in the pacific theatre in the srping of '45.
Anyway, any truth to this rumor?
I'm going to go buy some Udder Balm.
There were apparently 500 F7Fs ordered, but the contract was
cut short at the end of hostilities. 34 F7F-1s were built, followed
by 30 2-seat F7F-2Ns. Then 189 F7F-3s with improved R-2800s,
slightly larger vertical stabs and 7% more fuel.
Less than 100 F7Fs were built after the war, but as you can
see..alot more than 2 were produced.
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Originally posted by Rino
There were apparently 500 F7Fs ordered, but the contract was
cut short at the end of hostilities. 34 F7F-1s were built, followed
by 30 2-seat F7F-2Ns. Then 189 F7F-3s with improved R-2800s,
slightly larger vertical stabs and 7% more fuel.
Less than 100 F7Fs were built after the war, but as you can
see..alot more than 2 were produced.
You did'nt read the whole thread did you?
2 WEEKS DETENTION!!!
Seriously, about 10 posts up I corrected my mistake. I accidentally substituted the F7F Tigercat for the F5F Skyrocket.
Only 2 Skyrockets were built where there were numerous F7Fs.
You know the real b*tch of it is the museum I work at has neither airplane.
http://www.cradleofaviation.org
It's not entirely dedicated to Grumman, but most of the collection celebrates their work. And we do have the oldest surviving F-14.
Meanwhile....Whats going on at the CON. We got a gag order over there or what???
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
Meanwhile....Whats going on at the CON. We got a gag order over there or what???
I was wondering the same thing. I honestly thought that we'd see Ki-84's and Liberators in the sky already. :(
And, because Superfly announced the Liberator prior to the Con, I've been hoping for some really HOT announcement on Con weekend. That's why this hook...err...thread caught my attention. ;)
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Goodyear F2G-1/-2 Super Corsair would have made in production earlier, but the problems went around and only 10/15 F2Gs were made during WWII. If the WWII would last longer, F2Gs production probably around 300+ in Late 1945 and Early 1946.
Then again, F8F Bearcat is better than Super Corsair.
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I have it from a good source that the new Grumman bird is a perk bird to help beat those pesky LA-7's
Now that would be the ultimate revenge on the LA7s, being able to shoot down a LA7 150 NM away.
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In the end...is it planes that saw alot of combat that were merely variants of what we have/ planes that saw alot of combat that were'nt sexy, or....
planes that stand out or are interesting even if they saw little to no combat that we'd like to see in here?
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
You did'nt read the whole thread did you?
2 WEEKS DETENTION!!!
Seriously, about 10 posts up I corrected my mistake. I accidentally substituted the F7F Tigercat for the F5F Skyrocket.
Only 2 Skyrockets were built where there were numerous F7Fs.
You know the real b*tch of it is the museum I work at has neither airplane.
http://www.cradleofaviation.org
It's not entirely dedicated to Grumman, but most of the collection celebrates their work. And we do have the oldest surviving F-14.
Meanwhile....Whats going on at the CON. We got a gag order over there or what???
Sorry...I was kind of interested in the topic myself :)
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Only new grumman 'cat' I want to see is the PBY :D
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The F8F is indeed coming, and it will have my name across it, right Nate?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMER!!!
Drex
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Why the Bearcat? Did they even see action in WWII?
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Originally posted by NUKE
Why the Bearcat? Did they even see action in WWII?
Nope....They never see action over WWII, but they have see action over IndoChina for FRENCH ONLY while we were over war in Korea in 1950-1953!
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Originally posted by ra
Combat duty. But did they see combat?
Was reading up on F7F..Long time ago and it said the F7F DID see combat...as a ground attack...helping Marines mop up some small pockets of Japanese
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Originally posted by tzr
Was reading up on F7F..Long time ago and it said the F7F DID see combat...as a ground attack...helping Marines mop up some small pockets of Japanese
I did also read about F7F long time ago and I did forgot something about USMC F7F(Must be Prototype or just fresh one) in the Pacific of World War II. All I know that their date deployed in 1944.
But I can't tell it true because many people included Grumman Aircraft Company said that F7F and F8F did not see any action in WWII.
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Originally posted by Tails
Only new grumman 'cat' I want to see is the PBY :D
Consolidated built the PBY, not Grumman. Grumman waas responsible for the Goose, Mallard and Albatross.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by NUKE
Why the Bearcat? Did they even see action in WWII?
No, the Bearcat didn't get to the war in time. However, several squadrons were enroute aboard CVs headed to Japan when the surrender occurred.
They would have been a rude shock to the Japanese. It was probably the best piston-engine interceptor ever built.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by J_A_B
"Too many planes that actually participated in the conflict that should come long before the might have beens, had no impact on the war types. "
This is only relevant for people who are actually interested in somehow re-creating WW2.
IMO, since the MA in no way represents any past war, plane additions should be chosen more for usefulness and how well they "fit" in the MA than worthless factors like nationality or WW2 usage (and if I had my way, there'd be several different arenas with different eras of airplanes available, instead of a single MA). A better argument against the "uber" propeller planes like the Sea Fury and the Bearcat (especially the 20mm ones) is that they're simply "too good" to make for good balance against the majority of piston-engine fighters.
Personally, I view a transport as the single biggest plane type AH2 needs as an addition since it's a much-used type with only a single model to choose from currently.
J_A_B
Since they call it Aces High and expect historically accurate skins for their aircraft, I'd be hard pressed to say HT and company are looking for the 'what might have been' in determining a plane set.
You have to have some sort of basis to determine which planes fit and basing it on the conflict that was WW2 seems to be what they are doing.
Otherwise it's SWOTL all over again
And while I understand what you are saying about a transport, it is "Aces High" which does seem to imply some sort of air combat.
Dan/Slack
who is content with the aircraft already in the game if you really want to know :)
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Guppy, you haven't seen the old poll by Pyro, where he asks what plane from a list including P47M and P51H the players would like next?
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It must be something like this. Would be cool... :aok
(http://www.is.northropgrumman.com/gallery/historical/images/f3f-1a_35.jpg)
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One of the flyable F7F Tigercats raced at Reno this year.
http://www.airrace.org/gallery/web/ncar2004/19sept/0437-_g5z8649_std.jpg
MiG
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If you have some spare cash, you can even buy an F7F Here (http://www.courtesyaircraft.com/n6178C.htm) or an F8F Here (http://www.courtesyaircraft.com/FAZRJ.htm)
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Grumman F7F-3
Twin engined, carrier based fighter bomber.
Powerplant: 2x 2100hp P&W R-2800-34W
Max speed: 435 mph at 22,000 feet. Cruising speed 222. Ceiling: 40,700 feet. Normal range: 1,200 mi.
Weights: empty 16,270lb, max takeoff: 25,720lb. Armament: 4x 20mm cannon in wing roots and 4x .50cal in nose, "plus one torpedo beneath the fuselage and up to 1,000lb of bombs under each wing." (according to my sources, that's 1x torp ***AND*** 2x 1000lb - 1 under EACH wing... no more TBM. No more Ju88, baby, here comes a torp bomber that can DEFEND itself!)
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An A4 Skyhawk would be fun.
Originally posted by Nefarious
Maybe there going to release the A-6 or F-14, .
:aok
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A cannon armed f6f would be one of the hottest planes in the game and need perking big time.
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I would be shocked if they put cannon's on the hellcat. All F6F-5 had provisions for such armament but only a handful of nightfighters ever flew with it operationally. I just want my tri color F6F-3 with the usual 6 .50 cals and I"ll be happy. :)
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check my post on the reno air races, there was a pic of an f7f from the front. While setting up for the party it way flying right over our house.
Tapakeg
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*two-tail looks at F7F pictures*
Hey...noone told me this thing was twin-engined...
GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!!!
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If new planes are added in AH I wouldn't want to see more late ware aircraft. We already have plenty of late war fighters, but I wouldn't mind seeing more bombers and I wouldn't mind if they were late war of early war. If more fighters were added, then I suggest we have earlier models of the planes we already have or more early war planes. We definately dont need more late war aircraft.
Canaris
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If they add a Hellcat with Cannons will they unperk my Hog?
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Man, the Bearcat is a very pretty airplane.
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Originally posted by Muddie
An A4 Skyhawk would be fun.
Yeah but that wouldnt be Grumman now would it. ;)
A-6 could carry the payload of Two and a half B17's. It must be perked. It would definatley be hard to land on our Yorktown Class? Carrier. :D
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Yeah but that wouldnt be Grumman now would it. ;)
A-6 could carry the payload of Two and a half B17's. It must be perked. It would definatley be hard to land on our Yorktown Class? Carrier. :D
Landing wouldn't be the problem. Taking off would be. ;)
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They would have been a rude shock to the Japanese. It was probably the best piston-engine interceptor ever built.
I think the Soviets might disagree.... ;) The Yak-3U with the VK-107 would most likely eat the Bearcats lunch and then spank it for good measure. And it DID see combat, albeit in very small numbers.
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Heya verm!
FWIW to you Grumman fans, there's a museum in Galveston (short drive from Houston) that has the most complete set of "Cats" known. They have the 4/6/7/8 of course, but they also have one of those early biplanes with the fuselage that looks like a Wildcat ( I think it was an F3F but I'm not sure).
Someone pointed out they do not in fact have EVERY cat, but the museum says that once the Tomcat is no longer an operational aircraft they will get their F14 :D
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Originally posted by Booky
If they add a Hellcat with Cannons will they unperk my Hog?
F6F-5N with 20mm cannon and a night fighter! ah well, no it will not unperk F4U-1C :D
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Originally posted by mipoikel
It must be something like this. Would be cool... :aok
(http://www.is.northropgrumman.com/gallery/historical/images/f3f-1a_35.jpg)
Hahahahah...if you think the view from a P38 is bad....:lol
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Originally posted by Edbert
Heya verm!
FWIW to you Grumman fans, there's a museum in Galveston (short drive from Houston) that has the most complete set of "Cats" known. They have the 4/6/7/8 of course, but they also have one of those early biplanes with the fuselage that looks like a Wildcat ( I think it was an F3F but I'm not sure).
Someone pointed out they do not in fact have EVERY cat, but the museum says that once the Tomcat is no longer an operational aircraft they will get their F14 :D
The cradle of aviation has the F3F, F4F, F6F, TBF, the oldest F-14 still around, plus the F9F.
Come to this of it, the only one's we're missing is the F7F and the F8F.
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Still hoping someone will have the balls to put in a Swordfish someday :(
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I hate to be the one who spoils this, but since The Con is more than a week old...
I *personally* invented the story about the Tigercat/Bearcat being tested at The Con by attendees, and someone else typed it into the buffer in the Main Arena. We all had a great laugh, and then promptly forgot about it and resumed drinking ourselves silly.
I am pleased to see that the discussion continues this long.
Whether you choose to believe me, however, remains to be seen. ;-)
-Llama