Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wotan on September 27, 2004, 07:49:37 AM
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http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040924-120619-1344r.htm
An English professor at the University of North Carolina illegally subjected a student to "intentional discrimination and harassment" because he was "a white, heterosexual Christian male" who expressed disapproval of homosexuality, the U.S. Education Department's Office of Civil Rights has ruled.
The reason I posted this was because I found the following hilarious on the one hand and unbelievable on the other:
A topic of the session was "whether heterosexual men felt 'threatened' by homosexual men." Toward the end of the class, Mr. Mertes stated that " 'threatened' was the wrong word to use."
According to the letter, Mr. Mertes cited the example of "a friend in California who is a Christian and who was propositioned by a gay man. He got a love letter from this man, and he felt dirty and disgusted, not threatened."
Mr. Mertes told the class "that, as a Christian, he felt the same way," the letter said. "He would not want to have to explain to his 6-year-old why two men are kissing at a ballgame. [Mr. Mertes] ended his remarks in the classroom by saying that the only way to regard this activity as a 'threat' is that homosexuality could be a threat to life, e.g., reproduction or procreation."
Mr. Jones said Ms. Crystall "didn't challenge [Mr. Mertes] in the class," but instead afterward "went around the environment of the classroom and e-mailed every student" to attack Mr. Mertes by name. The attack caused him to receive personal threats, and his car was vandalized, the congressman said.
In her e-mail, Ms. Crystall told students: "I will not tolerate any racist, sexist, and/or heterosexist comments in my class. What we heard Thursday at the end of class constitutes 'hate speech' and is completely unacceptable, it has created a hostile environment. I am deeply sorry and apologize to those of us who are now feeling that the classroom we share is an unsafe environment, for those of us who feel vulnerable or threatened. I will do my best to counter those feelings and protect that space from further violence."
Naming Mr. Mertes in the e-mail, Ms. Crystall wrote: "What we experienced, as unfortunate as it is, is, however, a perfect example of privilege, that a white, heterosexual, Christian male, one who vehemently denied his privilege last week insisting that he earned all he has, can feel entitled to make violent, heterosexist comments and not feel marked or threatened or vulnerable is what privilege makes possible."
Sweat Jesious what a kook...
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Not only a Kook, but a kook that is paid to teach (Yeah, right!) our children.
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In your opinion, which one is the kook?
Mertes, Jones, Crystall?
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no doubt the teacher is a kerrie voter.
lazs
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Another "open minded" liberal in action.
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Ah, the modern class room... where the actual subject material for the class is no longer taught.
-SW
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Read and re-read... I get it... Crystall is a bit unhinged.
Hate this writing style...
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Unfortunately, you are looking at the bulk of Academia here.
Perhaps a bit more extreme than others...perhaps not.
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
Unfortunately, you are looking at the bulk of Academia here.
Perhaps a bit more extreme than others...perhaps not.
I would say typical of what is in academia today. you are entitled to freely express your opinion as long as it is in line with current liberal philosophy.
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All I have to say is finally.
You know whats the worst minority today? The Single Male White College Student.
There are no scholarships or funds for being single or having kids in custody. No caucasian scholarships, insurance is high, etc.
There was an instance where a kid here got 400 bucks from a newly started Caucasian scholarship. He got booed continually, for being proud of his skin color.
I'm not saying I'm racist, I'm just stating facts.
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Was talking to my oldest brother the other day and he was telling me about one of his Profs.
My brother is retired Army and has gotten married to a younger girls who is a teacher and she talked him into going back to college so he can become a teacher himself.
Well one of his manditory classes has something to do with learning to get along with others. His Prof. was a middle aged black woman.
He knew he was in trouble when he walked into the class and he was the only man in the room.
From the beginning she would always use him as an example of what was wrong with the US today. He was a White male.
She told the class he had no choice but to be prejudice because he was a white male and that he was born that way.
Long story short the Prof was not going to pass him till he stood in front of the class and admitted he was prejudice.
Of course this is normal for IU so no one was too suprised when she didn't get into trouble for it.
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You could make a lot of money if you started a College where the instructors actually knew something of value. Something that would increase the economic and social worth of their students. I think there would be a lot of people who would pay for a true education.
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Originally posted by Otto
You could make a lot of money if you started a College where the instructors actually knew something of value. Something that would increase the economic and social worth of their students. I think there would be a lot of people who would pay for a true education.
Pfft...I knew I would have.
I think in 4 Years of college I can name 4 classes that actually taught me somthing I used.
Marketting.
Economics
Psychology
US History WWII
Problem is...I was a business major.
Still, you need a degree unless your starting your own business.
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If this weren't so sad it'd be funny.
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I was an architecture major and a business minor. There was one teacher, an Indian architect name Rizal Mistry that took me aside and suggested that I not waste my time in school any further and make my life in self employment. I was dejected by his advise because trying as hard as I could I was a dismal student. I dropped out 30 credits shy of graduation. I went to work in the trades as an Iron worker/ welder. In time I did start my own business. In retrospect he saw something that I didn't and I misunderstood what he meant. That man was a teacher even if his English was horrible. :D If you closed your eyes you'd think you were speaking with a Pommie. :D
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"I will not tolerate any racist, sexist, and/or heterosexist comments in my class"
Isn't that an oxymoron?
Sexist and heterosexist?
Is heterosexist a word or do only smart people who teach college use that word?
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You know I just can't buy the idea that we white males are being discriminated against . It's BS of the highest order. Look around you, who owns everything, runs everything, has the most money?
Yes, white males. Not all of us of course. But the good old white males pretty much control the world.
It always makes me laugh when I read stuff like that.
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Old white males own alot.
Younger ones do not and are usually subject to the "Get a job at McDonalds" line.
You want to hear racist? Here at school there are two pagaents. Miss EIU and Miss Black EIU.
African American women are allowed to participate in both pagaents and have the possibility of winning both while non-african american women can only participate in just Miss EIU.
Having a Miss White EIU was deemed racist.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Of course this is normal for IU so no one was too suprised when she didn't get into trouble for it.
Don't they make porn movies there?
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Originally posted by cpxxx
You know I just can't buy the idea that we white males are being discriminated against . It's BS of the highest order. Look around you, who owns everything, runs everything, has the most money?
Yes, white males. Not all of us of course. But the good old white males pretty much control the world.
It always makes me laugh when I read stuff like that.
Just look around and see who gets preferential treatment for jobs, scholarships, college admission, and any number of other things. Look around and see who can have organizations that can exclude other races and the opposite sex and who cannot. Over here, the courts will force a group of white males to let anyone in. They will not force a group of females, or any other race besides the white race, to allow members that they wish to exclude. You can sue your way into any exclusive white male organization, or into having it destroyed. If you believe that white males have it all, you are sadly deluded.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
You know I just can't buy the idea that we white males are being discriminated against . It's BS of the highest order. Look around you, who owns everything, runs everything, has the most money?
Yes, white males. Not all of us of course. But the good old white males pretty much control the world.
It always makes me laugh when I read stuff like that.
You obviously didn’t read the article. This is a story about an individual act of discrimination. The conclusion of the U.S. Education Department's Office of Civil Rights was that the English professor illegally subjected the student to "intentional discrimination and harassment" because he was "a white, heterosexual Christian male" who expressed disapproval of homosexuality.
So you may not "buy into the idea that white males get discriminated against" but apparently the U.S. Education Department's Office of Civil Rights does. However, their ruling wasn’t made on behalf of all white males but on the specific instance of this student and the English professor.
She declared in an email that because this "perfect example of privilege" "created a hostile environment" she felt the need to "protect that space (classroom) from further violence." The “violence” being his disagreement with her premise that as a heterosexual white male he was "threatened” by homosexuals.
She sent emails out to all her students calling the guy a "racist, sexist, and/or heterosexist". There was even a hint of a threat in that email:
"that a white, heterosexual, Christian male, one who vehemently denied his privilege last week insisting that he earned all he has, can feel entitled to make violent, heterosexist comments and not feel marked or threatened or vulnerable is what privilege makes possible."
In short "how dare he think that he can get away with thinking and stating that...?”
As a result he was threatened and his car vandalized.
On your point of “who owns what” there is no collective guilt for offensives made by past generations. Because Leroy didn’t get a job 50 years ago or because he descended from a slave doesn’t give him any more “rights” then me or anyone else. Just because others in my racial group may "own more" doesn’t mean I shouldn't be given an equal opportunity to earn my own. You can't collectively punish folks for things they haven’t done. What you can do is make judgments on individual instances and make corrections. The solution to past racism isn’t more racism.
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cpx... are you advocating discrimination? do you believe that it is ok to treat one group differently than another based soley on race? perhaps it is ok to discriminate based on.... economics? The end justifies the means?
lazs
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Originally posted by cpxxx
You know I just can't buy the idea that we white males are being discriminated against . It's BS of the highest order. Look around you, who owns everything, runs everything, has the most money?
Yes, white males. Not all of us of course. But the good old white males pretty much control the world.
It always makes me laugh when I read stuff like that.
Lazs beat me to it, you made a bigoted statement. It is wrongly discriminatory to treat someone either negatively or positively based on their gender or race. Whatever happened to individual rights?
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"Yes, white males. Not all of us of course. But the good old white males pretty much control the world. "
That's fine with me... Will I get something in the mail that tells me what parts mine?
I don't want some place that's too cold or damp. Something in the Atlantic with a nice white sand beach would be fine as long as it's on the West side of the island.... And running water....
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Ok I see some nice sophistry going on. LOL. I think some of you are buying into the victimhood culture that some of you accuse others of.
You know the sort of thing: 'I didn't get that job/college course/club membership because of the colour of my skin or gender'. I often felt it must be great to be of some 'discriminated' against minority or whatever. Because all my failings could be explained away as somebody else's fault. Well I don't know about you but I take ownership for my failures. I suspect most of you do too.
Yes that was an obvious example of discrimination against a white man and it was duly recognised and it amply demonstrated that racism and bigotry is not the sole preserve of us white guys. That is the irony which perhaps Ms Curtis may or not be aware of at this stage. But I suspect, true to form, she believes she is now the victim. But the system works, he complained and got his justification.
Yes I know most of us here are not rich, have power or own lots of land. But I say again look around you. Who does have the power? Start at the top.
White males are here to stay for all sorts of reason I won't go into. You know what I'm talking about!
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Down with Whitey
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cpxxx, we are talking about a specific incident and the ruling authority agreed that this was a case of racial and gender discrimination. Are you suggesting that this does not exist or only that it cannot be perpetrated against white males?
"An English professor at the University of North Carolina illegally subjected a student to "intentional discrimination and harassment" because he was "a white, heterosexual Christian male" who expressed disapproval of homosexuality, the U.S. Education Department's Office of Civil Rights has ruled."
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Jeez, my Professors always subjected me to harrasment because I never showed up for class, was a smart bellybutton when I did, and still managed to ace all my tests....
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let's not make something so simple into something complex.
racial discrimination is still racial discrimination no matter what races are involved.
lazs
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White men are not a race, they are a class, like homosexuals, the disabled and "minority contractors".
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Originally posted by lazs2
let's not make something so simple into something complex.
racial discrimination is still racial discrimination no matter what races are involved.
lazs
Unfortunately this is not a universal view. As a matter of fact this statement alone will get you called racist.
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Originally posted by AKIron
cpxxx, we are talking about a specific incident and the ruling authority agreed that this was a case of racial and gender discrimination. Are you suggesting that this does not exist or only that it cannot be perpetrated against white males?
"An English professor at the University of North Carolina illegally subjected a student to "intentional discrimination and harassment" because he was "a white, heterosexual Christian male" who expressed disapproval of homosexuality, the U.S. Education Department's Office of Civil Rights has ruled."
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No, if you READ what I said you will see that is not so.
Yes that was an obvious example of discrimination against a white man and it was duly recognised and it amply demonstrated that racism and bigotry is not the sole preserve of us white guys.
I'm addressing the implied issue that we white males have become a persecuted minority. Do you believe we are? I don't despite examples like the above which I believe are exceptions and have little impact on the position of white men in society.
For example in the company where I'm sitting right now there are pictures of all the senior managers. This company is irritatingly PC. They have diversity programmes coming out of their ears, women's groups, gay, lesbian and transexual groups etc etc. But of the 21 managers whose smiling visages greet at the start of every new day. All 21 are white, only 3 are women and the only foreigner is the senior man appointed by head office. Further down the line it's the same. All white and a few women. For all their PC good intentions nothing changes. That's the way it is and will remain..
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I tell ya, not a day goes by at UNC where I don't feel like I'm somehow the subject of racial discrimination. This place drips with politically correct intolerance of the white man! Every professor seeks to undermine my powerful status in society by asking others to torment and villify me. I'm not sure how I make it through the week.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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DMF would you have such a dismissive attitide about this incident if a black student was treated this way a white propfessor? If a white proffesor incited scores of students to harras, taunt and attack a black student or vandalize his property because he was black? Or if it was a woman, a gay, a disabled student who was trated tjis way.. Would anybody have such a dismissive attitude? It would be a national scandal.. The unversity ould come under great scrutiny and pressure for fostering such an environbemt.. And you know it... Yet you dismiss this as nothing and make jokes...
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No, Grun. I'm dismissive of some of the attitudes I see here that seem to think this sort of behavior pervades academia. It doesn't, and this situation was so unusual as to justify an article in a nationally-distributed newspaper.
I go to UNC as a graduate student. I've taken classes here, and I've taught classes here. The example cited in this thread is abhorrent and uncommon. I don't know a single professor who would ever attempt a ridiculous stunt like that. The university does not "foster" an environment that promotes this kind of behavior. It tries very hard to do exactly the opposite.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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What do you think your university should to to tis professor if this incident hapopened as reported. What do you think they will do?
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Originally posted by cpxxx
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I'm addressing the implied issue that we white males have become a persecuted minority. Do you believe we are?
I believe there are many that would persecute us if it were in their power to do so. The situation now is more like annoying gnats than anything else. This may not always be the case, especially if we ignore it and do nothing.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What do you think your university should to to tis professor if this incident hapopened as reported. What do you think they will do?
If I remember correctly, the university required a public apology and now makes faculty members teaching these courses take workshops on leading discussions about controversial topics.
Here (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/nc/orange/story/1663943p-7897222c.html) is a link to the outcome of this nuttiness. You'll note that the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights did not find UNC as an institution at fault here, and they noted the actions taken by UNC toward the professor were appropriate and suitable. Personally, I would have at least temporarily banned Crystall from teaching this or any course dealing with highly controversial topics. As it stands, I'm not distraught over the outcome. Most involved seem quite pleased with it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I don't know if this is common behavior or not. I never even considered that part. What I did consider was the incident itself. The incident was racist. I am glad that something was done about it.
I used to be KKK type racist. later, I realized that this was not only an ureasonable and idiotic position to take but that it caused me a lot of grief for no reason.
Now, I sometimes think that I am one of the few people on this board who is not a racist. It seems that a lot of people here are letting agendas get in the way of reason when it comes to race. They are true racists.... unable to even consider any facts that might weaken their agenda..
just my opinion after being on both sides of the fence of course...
lazs