Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sabre on September 27, 2004, 02:27:48 PM

Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Sabre on September 27, 2004, 02:27:48 PM
I'd like to see Kerry spin this.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/36048bf8-0ff7-11d9-ba62-00000e2511c8.html
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on September 27, 2004, 02:29:54 PM
Is Chevy Chase involved?
-SW
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Sandman on September 27, 2004, 02:30:06 PM
Sounds like "no european vacation" for our troops.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Sabre on September 28, 2004, 02:11:20 PM
I'm surprised the Bush campaign isn't making more of this.  Kerry's only two points on foreign policy so far are,

a) Bush has done everything wrong.

and

b) I [Kerry] will [somehow] be more successful in getting international cooperation in Iraq and the wider war on terror.

Since two of the contries he was counting on to help have snubbed him, even before the election, it would seem a great point to attack him on now.

"See!" the Bush campaign could say after pointing out the French and German declarations, "We were able to forge a coalition of 30 countries for the Iraq war.  Kerry's promises that he'll do better are so much campaign bluster!"
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on September 28, 2004, 02:16:02 PM
You realise that you appear to support this infighting between the presidential candidates?

Guess that's why these campaigns focus on smearing rather than issues and ignoring the other party... they know they have an audience for this ****.
-SW
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Sabre on September 28, 2004, 03:49:21 PM
Is it wrong to point out the inconsistancies and lack of substance in a political candidate's position on an issue?  All I said is, I found it strange that one candidate's campaign missed an opportunity to point out a major flaw in the opposition's platform.  I believe that is what an election campaign is supposed to be about; not what happened or didn't happen 30 years ago, but what the candidates are claiming they're for/against today (along with their political records, of course).
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on September 28, 2004, 03:58:05 PM
it would seem a great point to attack him on now.

That's what I was focusing on. I'd prefer if candidates would just list what they are FOR. If it's questioned by a third party why they are for this, while their opponent is against this, then they could elaborate.

We're voting for a decent person to lead the country, not the best **** digger and poop flinger.
-SW
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 28, 2004, 07:53:55 PM
Quote
In fact, high-ranking German officials are privately concerned at the prospect of Mr Kerry becoming president, arguing it would not change US demands but make it more difficult to reject them.


:D
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Gunslinger on September 28, 2004, 08:00:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
it would seem a great point to attack him on now.

That's what I was focusing on. I'd prefer if candidates would just list what they are FOR. If it's questioned by a third party why they are for this, while their opponent is against this, then they could elaborate.

We're voting for a decent person to lead the country, not the best **** digger and poop flinger.
-SW


reguardless of who's attacking who the fact still remains that kerry's premise for Bush's failings in Iraq are in fact inadequate at best.  

I would like to see how he (kerry) spins this as well.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Nash on September 28, 2004, 08:02:32 PM
In otherwords they can easily say no to Geedub, but will find saying no to Kerry harder.

"That said, Mr Kerry seems genuinely committed to multilateralism and as president he would find it easier than Mr. Bush to secure the German government's backing in other matters."

The whole point of this article seems to be "Kerry won't get troops from us, but Bush won't get *anything* from us."

If this is supposed to make Kerry look bad, what does it say about Bush?
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 28, 2004, 08:04:41 PM
It doesnt say much about either Bush or Kerry, but it says volumese about Germany and probaly France as well..
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Nash on September 28, 2004, 08:09:26 PM
Yeah, it says way more about them, for sure.

But it's much worse looking for Bush than it is for Kerry.

Why it would get posted as a condemnation of Kerry is beyond me. Kerry doesn't say "Germany" -  he says "Allies".

If Germany sits back while the rest of the world pitches in, then yeah, this article says more about Germany.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 28, 2004, 08:24:42 PM
It's intersting that you mention Kerry doesnt saty Germany or France  but that he says "allies."  

Remember the standard anti-war criticism is that we we went into Iraq without "allies." Which, since we had the UK, Italy, Spain, Australia, Poland, etc  really meant that we went in without France and Germany..

So Kerry's "allies" are clearly France and Germany, and now we see they arent willing to help.

As to why this may be seen as a criticism of Kerry's plans.  Well its simple, it blows a hole in his big campaign promise on Iraq - that he will get our "allies" more involved.

See:

Quote
In fact, high-ranking German officials are privately concerned at the prospect of Mr Kerry becoming president, arguing it would not change US demands but make it more difficult to reject them.


Kerry will ask the same as Bush, and he will get the same as Bush - only our "allies" will feel a little bit more sad in telling us to piss off...  Which again is why I feel this is much more about them than either of the candidates.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Nash on September 28, 2004, 08:48:46 PM
"it would not change US demands but make it more difficult to reject them."

Meaning that they might not reject them...

Who knows...

Certainly we know that what politicians say isn't exactly what happens all of the time.

And considering the fact that the leaders of foreign nations know full well how their statements will impact their US relations, being made so close to an election, it seems to me they are hedging their bet.

Hedging them by not coming out with a full public support of Kerry (while intimating Kerry would be a more plausible president), and by not attacking Bush directly (in case he wins).

I reckon that in this article, Kerry at least has a chance with Germany. With Bush, goose egg.

Either way.... it's Germany....

Neither way... a condemnation of Kerry.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 28, 2004, 08:53:37 PM
On that we disagree Nash.  :)
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Nash on September 28, 2004, 08:55:16 PM
No WAY!

It's way too early!...

What... you got a date or something?
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on September 28, 2004, 09:01:07 PM
Gun, I really don't care about who spins what. I'd prefer the presidential races to not be mirroring reality TV shows with all the drama and "he said... he said" BS that has convulated our electoral system.

Not to mention I'd LOVE to do away with these damn conventions and party candidacy spots.

Anyway, don't want to continue because then the thread will deviate too far.
-SW
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Nash on September 28, 2004, 09:11:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
because then the thread will deviate too far.


uhm.... I don't see a problem with that.

:)
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Steve on September 28, 2004, 09:15:58 PM
Quote
That said, Mr Kerry seems genuinely committed to multilateralism



Well he does for now, at least.  In the past, Kerry has advocated for unilateral U.S. action.  We'll see where Carville tells him his next position lies.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: lazs2 on September 29, 2004, 08:35:13 AM
ok so who here believes that the world will love us if kerrie gets in?

who here believes the world will pretend to love us while we give away the farm?

lazs
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: john9001 on September 29, 2004, 10:41:45 AM
i would rather have UK and Poland on our side than france and germany.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Edbert1 on September 29, 2004, 10:55:05 AM
Not just Poland, most of Eastern Europe. I say we pull out every last serviceman we have in Germany. If they are needed in Europe at all send them to Poland/Estonia/Latvia/Hungary/Bulgaria/etc. Those countries are standing by us in our time of need and I'm sure their young economies would benefit from a few billion dollars per year.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Rude on September 29, 2004, 11:17:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
In otherwords they can easily say no to Geedub, but will find saying no to Kerry harder.

"That said, Mr Kerry seems genuinely committed to multilateralism and as president he would find it easier than Mr. Bush to secure the German government's backing in other matters."

The whole point of this article seems to be "Kerry won't get troops from us, but Bush won't get *anything* from us."

If this is supposed to make Kerry look bad, what does it say about Bush?


Nice try Nash....guess your take explains why both France and Germany share intel with us at this very moment?

You're just another ideologue.
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: AKIron on September 29, 2004, 11:22:02 AM
So, the US pulls troops out of Germany creating economic hardship for many resulting in the rise to power of the NeoNazis and subsequent conquest of Europe. I can hear it now, Bush is Hitler. :rolleyes:
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Edbert1 on September 29, 2004, 11:25:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
So, the US pulls troops out of Germany creating economic hardship for many resulting in the rise to power of the NeoNazis and subsequent conquest of Europe. I can hear it now, Bush is Hitler. :rolleyes:

What are they going to do, counquer France in a few days? Oh wait...
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: lazs2 on September 29, 2004, 11:38:31 AM
just as SMERSH never forgave James Bond....  

the germans have never forgiven us for foiling their plans for world domination..... twice.

lazs
Title: No "European Vacation" for Kerry
Post by: Munkii on September 29, 2004, 11:49:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
You're just another ideologue.


As maddox put it, "oh no, don't call me an advocate of a particular ideology, anything but that!"