Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rod367th on September 27, 2004, 07:43:18 PM
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This is one of the dumbest things in here. Most the Time I see guy complaining about la7, I'll go to score page find out its one of his favorite planes. Next you'll hear someone complain about low level bombing, He'll state they never did that in real life. ( of course he's full of doogie poop).
Or you'll hear someone whine had to call friends, for help. Isn't this why we have sides and squads. Your suppose to wing up not other guys fault.
Because a few whined about HQ bombers now it makes no sense unless team is badly out nubered to hit a hq. Which defeats purpose of of change. Takes you 2 hrs to get to hq at alt kill it and they resupply it before your dead lol.
200 has become as bad as 1 use to be. Most argue fight on how others fly or politics.
JUST FLY IF i get spawned camp i come back in bombers never spawn 2nd time, I don't complain i just grab bombs.
Never in my life been vulched twice in this game at 1 field being attacked. Just take off another base to come fight or let horde have and take it back.
suicideing cvs who cares , WAS a normal fact of life in ww2. But in here you get 20 min rant if someone dives on cv. CAP cv and no worries about planes but then you couldn't have your cake(vulches) and eat (no suiciders) too.
Complaining about planes in tank town is funny. Don't like it get friend or squadie to CAP tank town. Would like to hear german panzer and tigers asking Il2's to stay away. I know the russians would like to see no ju87's. Since ju87 pilot had the most kills in ww2 over 500.
GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS PLAY YOUR GAME LET OTHERS PLAY THIER WAY. lIFE WOULD BE ALOT LESS STRESSFUL FOR YOU.......................... ....................... PS IStill love you morpheus....................a nd shane too
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rod--
Good points, very good.
I never complain about how others fly, but let me give an example of some flying that was pretty silly. The other night on the Trinity map I was in an M-16 at a vehicle base in one of those deep valleys in the mountains. Radar showed a con approaching from the west...over the edge of the plateau way above me appeared a formation of B-17s, which began to dive steeply towards the vehicle hangers 100 yds to my right. Field ack blew up one just before it dropped; I got another just after the drop. The drones would have died anyway, I think, since the remaining bomber had to go into a sharp right turn to avoid the vertical cliff on the other side of the valley. I think the last B-17 died, but he and a drone did get all 3 vehicle hangers with a salvo of 24 x 500 lbers laid across them.
So, an utterly ridiculous tactic is "successful", and death is actually preferable so you can up again sooner. Too many attacks like that and the arena looks like a circus of talentless hacks.
Also, attacks like that produce engagements that provide little challenge, just a few seconds of arcade-esque blasting away. No thrill of the hunt or jockeying for position.
MRPLUTO
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yes but you like pictures of men kissing each other in your avatar.
how can i take you seriously?
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Rod!
I think the problem is that some people have honed up their elite skills, and then find that those elite skills alone are not enough to cut it in the MA.
In WW2, most kills arose from surprise attacks. The aggressor knew where to look for his quarry. Can you imagine WW2 engagements being engineered to look like mediaeval jousts, in which (for example) a German 109 pilot slapped a British Spit pilot across the face with his flying glove, and said "Meet me over the English Channel at noon. We will merge at 5,000 feet..." while the rest of the RAF & Luftwaffe looked on? :lol
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Originally posted by rod367th
...Most the Time I see guy complaining about la7, I'll go to score page find out its one of his favorite planes...
So if I never fly the lala my whines are valid?... Good!
Put this up as an approved lala bash then.
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rod
lala is gay, perk lala, grr i hate those lala dweebs- learn to fly a real plane, stop runing awey you lgay7, here lalalalala.
all those are just a good way to venting steam, if it makes the person (usually me ;) ) feel batter, then why not? its only whining.
if i was you, i would grab a lala and go kill the whiner again, exept i dont fly lalas, they are gay :)
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I love you too. :)
Oh yeah so does Shane. :o
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worse than that beetle.... can you imagine a bunch of 109's all flying over the channel and then being met byu an equal large number of spitfires and hurricanes and then they just.... (gasp) fight! disgusting... a huge whirling confused mess!
lazs
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Originally posted by Drunky
yes but you like pictures of men kissing each other in your avatar.
how can i take you seriously?
Never thought I'd say it but.... I agree with Drunky! :lol
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Originally posted by Drunky
yes but you like pictures of men kissing each other in your avatar.
how can i take you seriously?
why would I want YOU to take me seriously. ?
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As long as there are players who exploit the gamey aspects of the GAME, people will complain.
It gets funny when people complain about the complaining though:D
Anton
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Beet, you make it sound like the furballing/dueling crowd is the entire problem with the game. Truth is that crowd is probably the smallest of any "club" in the game. Look at how populated the DA is, hardly ever more than 5-6 guys in it. There are 10x as many milkrunning potatos than furballers in AH. Which has more effect on gameplay, which frankly has sucked for a long while?
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Remember back in AH1...?
When People were flying in the DA and the numbers of the DA were up in the 20s or more every single night...
I do.
I also remember many more good fights. And no, they werent all fights in furballs. They were 1v1 be it high alt, low alt or otd.
Regardless of what anyone says, including you beet, they fighting in AH1 was on a different lvl than the fighting that goes on in AH2 now in the MA. Not only were there better fights back then but there were many more of them.
I'll directly relate that to the low #'s inthe DA now and players unwillingness to get better or learn.
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I complain therefore I am.
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i have come with a slogen for the La7 flyers
"we start what we cant finish!"
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I don't complain about how others play the game, it is after all thier 14.95. Otoh do I think some stuff is rediculous? I sure do. I'll give ya a couple examples.
The other night on Trinity I was flying a P-38 and this Mustang makes a high speed pass that I easily avoid. He zooms above me, dives in for another high speed pass that I evade, then he runs out of icon range. After several more high speed passes followed by him running out of icon range I turned on the film so I could see who it was later. A couple more high speed passes and he blows his advantage. Now he starts running to his own base. By this time I was so annoyed and wanted him dead so bad that I followed him home, perfectly willing to die in acks as long as I killed this guy.
As I approach the Rook base. I can see the 51 low, setting up a landing approach. I dive in and he sees me coming and trys to evade my pass.....I didnt miss and got out of acks unscathed :D Interesting to note, that was the second time I killed this same guy in exactly the same way.
Why do I think this situation is rediculous? Because the 51 driver *could* have very easily bnz'd me to death with his initial alt/e advantage. I had no help near, and niether did he. He had no worries about more people jumping the fight. Instead of fighting he chose to run.
2nd situation: Again on Trinity, this time I am flying a Hurricane. Knights are pushing hard on a Rook base. By the time I get close to the Rook base, Knights outnumber the Rooks at this particular base about 3 - 1. Knights killed the vh (wtg Knights) and then killed ALL the fh's as well. A few minutes later we have a successful base capture. The Knights who killed the fh's had absolutely no interest in fighting for the base, they just wanted to take it uncontested. Why play a game online that is designed to pit human opponents against each other if all you want to do is take undefended bases?
After the base capture Knights were all saying WTG! to each other on vox. I said on vox....."Why are you guys slapping each other on the back for taking an undefended base? You guys act like you actually fought for this base when in fact you didnt. You guys should all be playing offline games if you dont want human competition and only want to fight computer AI." Simply amazing how quiet the range channel got after that.
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OMG!
"The Knights who killed the fh's had absolutely no interest in fighting for the base"
They stole the vulch! Bastiges.
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Originally posted by Elfie
I don't complain about how others play the game, it is after all thier 14.95. Otoh do I think some stuff is rediculous? I sure do. I'll give ya a couple examples.
The other night on Trinity I was flying a P-38 and this Mustang makes a high speed pass that I easily avoid. He zooms above me, dives in for another high speed pass that I evade, then he runs out of icon range. After several more high speed passes followed by him running out of icon range I turned on the film so I could see who it was later. A couple more high speed passes and he blows his advantage. Now he starts running to his own base. By this time I was so annoyed and wanted him dead so bad that I followed him home, perfectly willing to die in acks as long as I killed this guy.
As I approach the Rook base. I can see the 51 low, setting up a landing approach. I dive in and he sees me coming and trys to evade my pass.....I didnt miss and got out of acks unscathed :D Interesting to note, that was the second time I killed this same guy in exactly the same way.
Why do I think this situation is rediculous? Because the 51 driver *could* have very easily bnz'd me to death with his initial alt/e advantage. I had no help near, and niether did he. He had no worries about more people jumping the fight. Instead of fighting he chose to run.
sounds like knights wanted base instead of vulches that you wanted . 1st story is absoulty how planes fought ww2. IF you think your in trouble get out go for help or home..................
2nd situation: Again on Trinity, this time I am flying a Hurricane. Knights are pushing hard on a Rook base. By the time I get close to the Rook base, Knights outnumber the Rooks at this particular base about 3 - 1. Knights killed the vh (wtg Knights) and then killed ALL the fh's as well. A few minutes later we have a successful base capture. The Knights who killed the fh's had absolutely no interest in fighting for the base, they just wanted to take it uncontested. Why play a game online that is designed to pit human opponents against each other if all you want to do is take undefended bases?
After the base capture Knights were all saying WTG! to each other on vox. I said on vox....."Why are you guys slapping each other on the back for taking an undefended base? You guys act like you actually fought for this base when in fact you didnt. You guys should all be playing offline games if you dont want human competition and only want to fight computer AI." Simply amazing how quiet the range channel got after that.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Why do I think this situation is rediculous? Because the 51 driver *could* have very easily bnz'd me to death with his initial alt/e advantage. I had no help near, and niether did he. He had no worries about more people jumping the fight. Instead of fighting he chose to run.
This is not necessarily true. I am about as good at the BnZ as anyone, but if the guy in the superior turning aircraft is any good he can avoid my passes almost indefinately. This is regardless of my inital advantage or how well I maintain my advantage. Turning is a defensive manuever in essence and if you are worth a crap at turning and have some modicum of SA you should not be 'BnZ'd to death' 1 vs. 1 ever....
Zazen
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Originally posted by kj714
OMG!
"The Knights who killed the fh's had absolutely no interest in fighting for the base"
They stole the vulch! Bastiges.
It has nothing to do with the vulch and everything to do with the fight. When you outnumber your opponent almost 3-1 in that area it's not going to be much of a fight, but at least it is A fight. And the fight is against human opponents, which is my reason for being here.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
This is not necessarily true. I am about as good at the BnZ as anyone, but if the guy in the superior turning aircraft is any good he can avoid my passes almost indefinately. This is regardless of my inital advantage or how well I maintain my advantage. Turning is a defensive manuever in essence and if you are worth a crap at turning and have some modicum of SA you should not be 'BnZ'd to death' 1 vs. 1 ever....
Zazen
Thats not true Zazen. In that same situation if I had been the 51 pilot attacking the 38, my initial goal is not an immediate kill, but to push him to the deck where he cant trade altitude for speed. Once you have done that, you can burn his remaining e and score the kill.
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"Regardless of what anyone says, including you beet, they fighting in AH1 was on a different lvl than the fighting that goes on in AH2 now in the MA. Not only were there better fights back then but there were many more of them."
I agree with ya, was more fun before I think. Still fun enough now though too. Who know's why the dynamics have changed really? The major changes in the game IMHO have been:
1. Fuel burn
2. fuel porkage
3. Maps?
4. Much harder to capture bases (my #1 guess of a reason for dynamics change)
5. better, harder to kill ack.
6. More difficult gv terrain.
I know the plane and gunnery characteristics changed too but that doesn't seem like it would have a lasting impact as people adapted to the new models pretty quickly.
As far as # 4 goes, I think it just changed things a lot now that 4 or 5 guys can't have a 50-50 shot at taking a base anymore.
Anyway, I won't gripe about the hordfights, everybody's doing it. And if everybody's doing it, that's a lot of guys doing it. It's a game for bangers, not real the real game... hehe, watched "Color of Money" over the weekend, good enough analogy though.
Anyway, the last few times I did a fighter sweep on my lonesome I got exactly nothing to show for it. So be it.
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"Regardless of what anyone says, including you beet, they fighting in AH1 was on a different lvl than the fighting that goes on in AH2 now in the MA. Not only were there better fights back then but there were many more of them."
Very true imo :(
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200 has become as bad as 1 use to be. Most argue fight on how others fly or politics.
not the point, the important thing is 200 is optional, 1 wasnt
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heheeheee rod said doggy poop
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Originally posted by Elfie
Thats not true Zazen. In that same situation if I had been the 51 pilot attacking the 38, my initial goal is not an immediate kill, but to push him to the deck where he cant trade altitude for speed. Once you have done that, you can burn his remaining e and score the kill.
Possibly, but that's not really BnZ'ing, that's E fighting. Presumably a high P51 didn't climb up there just to get down to deck after one kill. More often than not he will give up before that point, I know I would in most situations. I want 3 or 4 kills for my time at least, not just 1. Ending up low and slow on the deck for my trouble with 10 minutes of re-alting to look forward to if I don't end up getting wacked in my vulnerable state by an opportunist is pretty dumb and a waste of time.
Zazen
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If you re-read the entire situation Zazen, there was no one else in the area, friendly or enemy, during or after the confrontation. In that situation, yes, you can bnz almost anyone to death. It was a perfect opportunity for a 1 - 1 fight and he chose to run away, pretty rediculous imo.
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Originally posted by Elfie
If you re-read the entire situation Zazen, there was no one else in the area, friendly or enemy, during or after the confrontation. In that situation, yes, you can bnz almost anyone to death. It was a perfect opportunity for a 1 - 1 fight and he chose to run away, pretty rediculous imo.
It was when you engaged, but who's to say after he chases you down to deck and presumably kills you that he will not be bounced himself by an opportunistic enemy, there's always that risk. Getting an intelligent turn fighter down to deck takes alot of time, it's just not worth it in most siutations. There's always the chance when down on the deck the fight goes to angles, then the P51 is not even guarenteed a kill and has just blown all his altitude, is low and slow and extremely vulnerable.
Most people who are on a BnZ mission are not particularly looking for vintage film library fights, they are looking to surgically destroy as many enemy as they can per unit time and survive. Trying to reconclie that mode of thinking with the average TnB pilot's idea of a 'successfull' mission is not going to happen...ever..
Zazen
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What you just arent getting Zazen is there were TWO planes in the entire area.....his and mine, no one showed up during or after. There was no one around to be *opportunistic*. If he flys his plane better than I fly mine he wont get into a tnb situation. Pushing a good tnb pilot to the deck can be a chore, I'll give ya that.
In this situation the 51 pilot was holding all the aces and all I had was a pair of deuces. Why not fight? Even if I do manage to get on his 6, his superior speed and superior high speed handling will allow him to get away.
IF there had been other planes in the area your reasoning would hold true but with the lack of other planes (both friendly and enemy) it fails to hold even a drop of water :)
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Too much game time. I think you can find problems in any game you spend over 60 hours a month on. If you're in the 30 hour area, you're probably still having fun.
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Agreed Rod, if everyone believed into what you said, we wouldn't have all this whining stuff about people not getter their way or whining cause they cant win, kill something, or stop from getting killed. If everyone believed in what you said AH would be a much better game and a better community.
Canaris
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Originally posted by beet1e
I think the problem is that some people have honed up their elite skills, and then find that those elite skills alone are not enough to cut it in the MA.
You're wrong. It's those that use the Timid Rainbow Warrior fighting style that can't cut it in the MA. Otherwise, why use such timid tactics?
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Elfie
Thats not true Zazen. In that same situation if I had been the 51 pilot attacking the 38, my initial goal is not an immediate kill, but to push him to the deck where he cant trade altitude for speed. Once you have done that, you can burn his remaining e and score the kill.
Elfie I have to disagree with you there. Most of the 38 pilots in here are very experience and fly only the 38. Most of us would force the 51 to turn with the 38 because everyone knows not many 38 pilots are willing to go into a dive with a 51 because the 51 should win in a dive. We 38 pilots would get the 51 to turn with us even if we get on the deck because the 38 can easily out turn a 51 as long if the 38 pilot knows how to move with the 38 which most inexperienced 38 pilots dont know how and think its like a 51. The 38 thought can out turn a 51 and out stall the 38 which gives the 38 an advantage, all the 51 has is speed and high compression speeds. But in most cases you don't see too many inexperience 38 pilots.
So actually the 38 should win against the 51.
Canaris
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Originally posted by Elfie
Thats not true Zazen. In that same situation if I had been the 51 pilot attacking the 38, my initial goal is not an immediate kill, but to push him to the deck where he cant trade altitude for speed. Once you have done that, you can burn his remaining e and score the kill.
Exactly but then we really can't expect an Ostie Queen to know the finer points of aerial combat.
There's this one particular Rookie pilot that is notorious for doing what you've described Elfie. Wouldn't be surprised it was the same guy.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Canaris
But in most cases you don't see too many inexperience 38 pilots.
Canaris
The majority that fly the P-38 have no clue how to fly it. It is only a small minority that use this plane as their sole or primary ride that know how to use it to the fullest.
And Elfie is correct in his analysis of the engagement. The P-51 held all the cards and the P-38 driver would have his hands full if the P-51 driver was aggressive and kept up with his attacks. An experienced P-38 driver might be able to get lucky with an over shoot shot but in the fight that Elfie described, the P-51 driver had the ability to dictate the fight and outcome but choose instead to give it up and flee.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The majority that fly the P-38 have no clue how to fly it. It is only a small minority that use this plane as their sole or primary ride that know how to use it to the fullest.
And Elfie is correct in his analysis of the engagement. The P-51 held all the cards and the P-38 driver would have his hands full if the P-51 driver was aggressive and kept up with his attacks. An experienced P-38 driver might be able to get lucky with an over shoot shot but in the fight that Elfie described, the P-51 driver had the ability to dictate the fight and outcome but choose instead to give it up and flee.
ack-ack
EXACTLY!!!! btw Ack-Ack, ask me ingame and I will private ya that 51 pilot's name ;-)
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Originally posted by Canaris
Elfie I have to disagree with you there. Most of the 38 pilots in here are very experience and fly only the 38. Most of us would force the 51 to turn with the 38 because everyone knows not many 38 pilots are willing to go into a dive with a 51 because the 51 should win in a dive. We 38 pilots would get the 51 to turn with us even if we get on the deck because the 38 can easily out turn a 51 as long if the 38 pilot knows how to move with the 38 which most inexperienced 38 pilots dont know how and think its like a 51. The 38 thought can out turn a 51 and out stall the 38 which gives the 38 an advantage, all the 51 has is speed and high compression speeds. But in most cases you don't see too many inexperience 38 pilots.
So actually the 38 should win against the 51.
Canaris
Precisely. Inexperienced 38 pilots just use them to pork n' auger and vulch...
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Exactly but then we really can't expect an Ostie Queen to know the finer points of aerial combat.
There's this one particular Rookie pilot that is notorious for doing what you've described Elfie. Wouldn't be surprised it was the same guy.
ack-ack
AK-AK grow-up, Jeezuz Christ dude...sheesh :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by rod367th
why would I want YOU to take me seriously. ?
you probably don't.
probably because I don't have pictures of men kissing for my avatar.
pervert.
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This thread is worthless without names !! :D
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Precisely. Inexperienced 38 pilots just use them to pork n' auger and vulch...
I'm an inexperienced 38 pilot, and even though I do vulch with it when the opportunity presents itself, I dont pork and auger (intentionally heh), nor do I use it specifically for vulching. I can't be the only inexperienced 38 driver in the MA that doesnt pork n auger or use it specifically for vulching.
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Originally posted by Elfie
I'm an inexperienced 38 pilot, and even though I do vulch with it when the opportunity presents itself, I dont pork and auger (intentionally heh), nor do I use it specifically for vulching. I can't be the only inexperienced 38 driver in the MA that doesnt pork n auger or use it specifically for vulching.
I can at least second that you aren't the only inexperience 38 driver in the MA that doesn't pork and auger or use it for vulching. I can barely keep the thing in the air anymore :)
Maybe when we get that H model it will feel a bit like old "Miss Fire" from the AW days
Guess that mean's I can auger. But then again that's a Nomad's job to auger with style :)
Dan/Slack
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Wait till you get vulched by Lancaster, at ground level, flown by Filth no less, and all the while you know he's laughing his butt off at ya :rofl
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Originally posted by Stang
Beet, you make it sound like the furballing/dueling crowd is the entire problem with the game. Truth is that crowd is probably the smallest of any "club" in the game. Look at how populated the DA is, hardly ever more than 5-6 guys in it. There are 10x as many milkrunning potatos than furballers in AH. Which has more effect on gameplay, which frankly has sucked for a long while?
No, I didn't mean it to sound like that. But it has to be said that in AH and even in other games (Bridge is a classic example), when players become too fanatical, there's a huge tendency for them to become disappointed or frustrated when other players around them do not attain the same high standards. That could happen because the other players have less experience, or simply do not have the same level of ambition. Either way, and in whatever game that occurs, ill feeling between the players is often the result.
No, the furballing crowd is not what's wrong with the game, although in the past they did themselves become fanatical to such a degree that they wanted game changes that were designed to support their gameplay style and nobody else's. From the furball camp, I used to see whines about bombs (and calls for them to be perked), whines about maps and fields being too far apart, whines about suicide fuel porkers, whines about target hardness, whines about night & day, whines about defending HQ being no fun, whines about certain players being "timid", whines about jabo guys duffing all the FH at a field, whines about the pizza map - which deserve a catageory of their own... whines about HQ-radar being too "soft", and the devastating effect it has on "FUN" when the thing goes down...
...and yet would pour scorn on those who would climb above 15K to do something about it! :rolleyes::lol
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There is nothing 'wrong' with the game. It is what it is. Each whine that demands a fix to this problem or that, is in fact asking to define the players 'purpose' in the game.
I suppose some of the motivation behind ToD is to address that 'purpose'.
You like flying bombers then your job is to take those bombs to said target and deliver them on time accurately
You like air to air, then you fly fighters and sweep ahead of the bombers.
You like air defense. Get up there and knock down those bombers.
etc etc.
But unless you mandate a mission for people in the MA, it will always have the same conflicts as people will continue to do what they like best in surroundings that may make it harder for other people to do what they like best.
But personally I would never advocate that there be any mandate in how someone plays in the MA.
Dan/Slack
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Originally posted by Elfie
After the base capture Knights were all saying WTG! to each other on vox. I said on vox....."Why are you guys slapping each other on the back for taking an undefended base? You guys act like you actually fought for this base when in fact you didnt. You guys should all be playing offline games if you dont want human competition and only want to fight computer AI." Simply amazing how quiet the range channel got after that.
im thinking your forgetting about the players who like to play coop with other players. taking a defended base is great but having another base to launch out of regardless is worth a WTG wouldnt you agree?
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I don't think it is right to pick on a persons plane choice or the way they fly unless that person picks the best and safest and fastest planes in the game and then flys them timidly and then has the nerve to pretend that he has no huge unfair advantage over those who do not....
lazs
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Originally posted by Elfie
What you just arent getting Zazen is there were TWO planes in the entire area.....his and mine, no one showed up during or after. There was no one around to be *opportunistic*. If he flys his plane better than I fly mine he wont get into a tnb situation. Pushing a good tnb pilot to the deck can be a chore, I'll give ya that.
In this situation the 51 pilot was holding all the aces and all I had was a pair of deuces. Why not fight? Even if I do manage to get on his 6, his superior speed and superior high speed handling will allow him to get away.
IF there had been other planes in the area your reasoning would hold true but with the lack of other planes (both friendly and enemy) it fails to hold even a drop of water :)
There's no gaurantee there would not be someone else around by the time he forced you down to deck. Also, one thing you may not realize, the P51 may have a fast top speed but it accelerates like total crap, many much slower TnB have no problems beating P51 in a sprint. This is especially true if you are on the deck with no diving option, even then P51 can be toast pretty easily.
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Originally posted by Elfie
I'm an inexperienced 38 pilot, and even though I do vulch with it when the opportunity presents itself, I dont pork and auger (intentionally heh), nor do I use it specifically for vulching. I can't be the only inexperienced 38 driver in the MA that doesnt pork n auger or use it specifically for vulching.
Dunno, I've shot you down several times doing just that, very recently. ;)
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What about guys that fly for one side, oh, say Rooke, on a base capture drive, find the M3, then switch sides to, oh, say Bishop, and hop in a field gun so that they can score the easy kill on the M3 as it tries to race past the airfield to the town?
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Originally posted by gofaster
What about guys that fly for one side, oh, say Rooke, on a base capture drive, find the M3, then switch sides to, oh, say Bishop, and hop in a field gun so that they can score the easy kill on the M3 as it tries to race past the airfield to the town?
ROFL Who does this? Friggen hilarious.
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Widewing reported last night that his M3 was killed by Shane in this manner.
A bit later I killed Shane's P-47 D-11 when he was down in the weeds looking for GV's. He pulled up into me as I dove down in my 190A8, so I guess it all balances out.
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Originally posted by dragoon
im thinking your forgetting about the players who like to play coop with other players. taking a defended base is great but having another base to launch out of regardless is worth a WTG wouldnt you agree?
They couldnt launch from the base they just took because they wrecked it. Every single hanger was down, radar was down, and not sure about troops and ordinance.
*edit* In fact, as troops were being dropped the vh popped and at least 2 guys with ordinance bombed it into oblivion.
Let me expand a bit on why I think that situation was rediculous. With the numbers advantage the Knights had at that base, they could have taken the base intact. The base could have been fully functional, all hangers up, radar, troops, ord all up. We also could have had at least a lopsided fight for the base. Instead we had no fight for the base, and when the base was captured we couldnt even use it until the hangers came back up. People who took damage from acks cant use the rearm pads, they had to re-up at a base further back.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Dunno, I've shot you down several times doing just that, very recently. ;)
At least one time you got me from your Ostie I was chasing a Rook plane across the base. Also I didnt say I never vulched in a 38, I said I dont use it specifically for vulching. Also, now that I can actually see gv's from the air before I have flown past them, should make a bit of a difference now :P
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Originally posted by Zazen13
There's no gaurantee there would not be someone else around by the time he forced you down to deck. Also, one thing you may not realize, the P51 may have a fast top speed but it accelerates like total crap, many much slower TnB have no problems beating P51 in a sprint. This is especially true if you are on the deck with no diving option, even then P51 can be toast pretty easily.
I have flown the 51 extensively during other Tours, so yes I am aware of its strengths and weaknesses. You can turn with a 38 for a short time, done at the proper moment it is often enough to get you the kill shot. You also have to know exactly when to disengage from the turn and extend away if you miss the shot or it doesnt materialize. Ideally you would want to stay on his low 6 during the turn where he cant see you, as he slows his turn (because he cant see you) he gives you an easy shot as you pull directly onto his 6. Thats a gamble for sure, but you have the element of surprise on your side. Also you need to make sure you dont blow to much speed in your turn in case you need to extend away.
We are also looking at this situation from hindsight, there was NO ONE ELSE to jump the fight.
You have 736 kills so far this Tour, 554 of them in an Ostie, 68 as a ship/field gunner and 114 kills in planes. I think Ack-Ack was dead on, you might want to spend more time in planes before trying to hand out advise on how to fly :)
554 kills in an Ostie is an impressive feat imo, I am not very good at all in an Ostie :)
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Originally posted by Zazen13
There's no gaurantee there would not be someone else around by the time he forced you down to deck. Also, one thing you may not realize, the P51 may have a fast top speed but it accelerates like total crap, many much slower TnB have no problems beating P51 in a sprint. This is especially true if you are on the deck with no diving option, even then P51 can be toast pretty easily.
One thing you don't realize is that the P-51D accelerates better than the P-38L at pretty much all altitudes. The simple fact remains is that the P-51D had all the advantages and was in the position to dictate both the fight and the outcome which it failed to do when it gave up everything for the presumed safety of the airfield. The P-51D driver blew it, let his timid nature dictate his fighting strategy. But hey, I'm sure he's a really good in an Ostie.
ack-ack
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oh man how could i miss this accusation of spying?
I merely happened to switch (back) to bish as they were pretty outnumbered by that time. and that base was where the action was. it's not like ndisles has a lot of options to choose from in terms of finding action.
I also happened to hop in a field gun as the hangars were down and base was fairly capped. i was looking for vulchers, it was pure happenstance i happened to spot the m3 going down the side of the field.
i could care less about the "war" and an accusation of "spying" is pricelss!! especially since i don't pay attn to the ch 2 generals or strategerization - i can read the map very well thank you, and what i look for is big red dar bars.
I'll always cherish this. :D
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Ok so the p51 pilot choose to disengage, the fight before
he got low on alt and options, good decision. And you should
congratetulate yourself for having spoiled his attacks.
But one thing strikes me, how can one decide on his behalf
when he should stay or go. He could very well be low on fuel
or ammo, and therefore forced to RTB. Impossible for others to
know.
NB.
I myself also frequently coose to disengage if I don't like
the situation, and this will surely anger some. But If I
donšt feel I'm going to win. I rather bug out and try to
surprise someone else. I'm not really here to please
everyone elses idear about how to fight, thats impossible.
So I coose to just fly the way I like.
Flame away, I don't really care.
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Originally posted by mrniel
Ok so the p51 pilot choose to disengage, the fight before
he got low on alt and options, good decision. And you should
congratetulate yourself for having spoiled his attacks.
But one thing strikes me, how can one decide on his behalf
when he should stay or go. He could very well be low on fuel
or ammo, and therefore forced to RTB. Impossible for others to
know.
NB.
I myself also frequently coose to disengage if I don't like
the situation, and this will surely anger some. But If I
donšt feel I'm going to win. I rather bug out and try to
surprise someone else. I'm not really here to please
everyone elses idear about how to fight, thats impossible.
So I coose to just fly the way I like.
Flame away, I don't really care.
quit making sense you'll be banned from bbs if this continues.
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Originally posted by mrniel
If Idon't feel I'm going to win. I rather bug out and try to
surprise someone else.
this is the difference between fighter "pilots" and those who think they are...
i know i'm gonna win no matter what...
:D
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Originally posted by Shane
this is the difference between fighter "pilots" and those who think they are...
i know i'm gonna win no matter what...
:D
Not just you but everyone else thinks that you are just too good Shane :rolleyes:
Thats the beauty of the 51 - (no clue why they put the ENY restriction deal on)
51's arent easy to get kills with. You see alot of kills in the 51's cus people know how to fly it. Alot of the people that fly the 51 "choose" their flights as someone was saying earlier. You should always choose your right. If you dont think you measure up to the odds, then back away and wait for somethin else. The 51 is a nice plane to do this with well, because of its speed and maneuverability. Just because people fly the damn thing and gets easy kills with it doesnt mean the ENY value should be lower than that of a n1k or spit.
It generally sucks at low alts - only very experienced pilots know how to handle it at ground level.
It is easily caught at ground level
It has 50 cals...cmon, get real
I mean ****, it even sucks against bombers.
Now why the hell would its ENY value be so low when so many other planes are too ****in easy to get kills with.
Just cus its fast, don't mean ****.
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Originally posted by Elfie
You have 736 kills so far this Tour, 554 of them in an Ostie, 68 as a ship/field gunner and 114 kills in planes. I think Ack-Ack was dead on, you might want to spend more time in planes before trying to hand out advise on how to fly :)
554 kills in an Ostie is an impressive feat imo, I am not very good at all in an Ostie :)
Umm, I stopped flying September 10th out of disgust, I have been flying fighter planes for almost 12 years. I think that qualifies me to make the odd comment on these boards about them. Just because I happen to be very good in an Ostwind does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about with regard to fighters. That's the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. That's kind of like saying someone who's good at checkers must not know how to play chess...
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
That's kind of like saying someone who's good at checkers must not know how to play chess...
Zazen
Doesn't mean they're good at chess either...
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Umm, I stopped flying September 10th out of disgust,
Zazen
Disgust is bad, if you get some help, you could probably peg that back to just self-loathing ;)
try to get out of the Osti it is doing you no good at all if you feel that way about yourself.
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Maybe if you ask really nicely, he'll let you .join his Osty so you can see exactly how he does so well in it.
From what I understand, his method does not involve holding down the trigger and whirling the turret around.
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Originally posted by Shane
oh man how could i miss this accusation of spying?
I merely happened to switch (back) to bish as they were pretty outnumbered by that time. and that base was where the action was. it's not like ndisles has a lot of options to choose from in terms of finding action.
I also happened to hop in a field gun as the hangars were down and base was fairly capped. i was looking for vulchers, it was pure happenstance i happened to spot the m3 going down the side of the field.
i could care less about the "war" and an accusation of "spying" is pricelss!! especially since i don't pay attn to the ch 2 generals or strategerization - i can read the map very well thank you, and what i look for is big red dar bars.
I'll always cherish this. :D
You ever read any of Pablo Escobar's interviews? You would've liked him.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
I AM GOOD!!! I AM I AM I AM!!!!!
Just because I'm the best EVAR in a Flakpansie doesn't mean I'm not the best fiter pilot EVAR TOO!!!
Zazen
Hahahaa
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Originally posted by Urchin
Maybe if you ask really nicely, he'll let you .join his Osty so you can see exactly how he does so well in it.
From what I understand, his method does not involve holding down the trigger and whirling the turret around.
Urchin , I'll have you know I have 52 career kills in an Ostwind, I have become quite well versed in it's subtleties. I see you have 79 though , I am quite envious. We could compare techniques.
When you see a plane about to auger in do you make a quick dash towards it's likely EPOA (estimated point of auger) ?. I believe I could be missing out on some proxy kills by simply sitting in one place.
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Nope, I use my patented technique of driving the osty around in circles while holding the trigger down and spinning the turret the opposite direction.
It works for me.. I dunno what my life-time K/D is in the Flakpansie, but I bet its more than 1-1.
btw, check your mail redd.. I'll be out of the house for the next couple hours tho.
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Originally posted by mrniel
He could very well be low on fuel
or ammo, and therefore forced to RTB. Impossible for others to
know.
If he was low on ammo and/or fuel and still tried to attack knowing that he wasn't going to have enough fuel or ammo to successfully prosecute the attack, then he's obviously inexperienced.
You can sugar coat it however you want to but it still won't cover up the facts. Even if the P-38 had managed to evade the P-51's passes long enough to make it to the deck, the P-51 would still have its energy advantage which it could trade for altitude. There is no reason for the P-51 to turn with the P-38 once he has been forced to the deck. The P-51 has a dream encounter...it had all the advantages that would have allowed the P-51 driver to control the fight. The P-51 driver's failure to take advantage of this situation and decision to dump all of that for the safety of friendly ack cover only indicates that the pilot is either extremely timid, inexperienced or a combination of them both.
I have noticed too that a lot do seem to run at the sight of a Knight P-38L. It could just be that the P-51D driver had gotten his arse handed back to him so many times by someone in the P-38L that he automatically runs home out of fright.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Doesn't mean they're good at chess either...
ack-ack
Doesn't mean they're not good at chess either...
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Originally posted by Urchin
Hahahaa
Urchin resorting to making fictitious posts up again?!? Truly pathetic, you my friend need to get a life...quickly...
Zazen
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I have noticed too that a lot do seem to run at the sight of a Knight P-38L. It could just be that the P-51D driver had gotten his arse handed back to him so many times by someone in the P-38L that he automatically runs home out of fright.
ack-ack
Oh jeezuz, give me a break...! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Redd
Disgust is bad, if you get some help, you could probably peg that back to just self-loathing ;)
try to get out of the Osti it is doing you no good at all if you feel that way about yourself.
My disgust with the current state of the game has nothing whatsoever to do with my mass-murdering vulchers in my Ostwind. I use the Ostwind in this capacity for only one reason, it's alot of fun.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Urchin
Nope, I use my patented technique of driving the osty around in circles while holding the trigger down and spinning the turret the opposite direction.
LMAO! Thanks Urchin, 1st good laugh I've had all day. :lol
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12 years of flying fighters eh Zazen? From the way I have seen you fly, (I film most flights and review them later), it would look like you have no more than 12 days in a fighter. You show almost zero aggressiveness in a fighter. A good fighter pilot knows when to be aggressive and when to back off. A good pilot also knows *how* to disengage and when.
Your lack of aggressiveness in fighters is probably why you enjoy your time in that tin can known as an Ostie. Flying an Ostie doesnt require a shred of aggressiveness :p
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"Your lack of aggressiveness in fighters is probably why you enjoy your time in that tin can known as an Ostie. Flying an Ostie doesnt require a shred of aggressiveness"
This is funny, used to hear that all the time. I'm still the king of the Eastwind!!!
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Originally posted by MOIL
"Your lack of aggressiveness in fighters is probably why you enjoy your time in that tin can known as an Ostie. Flying an Ostie doesnt require a shred of aggressiveness"
This is funny, used to hear that all the time. I'm still the king of the Eastwind!!!
You would argue that sitting on a re-arm pad in something that looks like a dalek, with your finger poised on the .ef keys , shooting at planes that are not even engaging you , displays some form of aggression or skill ?
I would liken it to space invaders at best. Wouldn't rate as high as Galaga though - that was quite tricky ;)
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oooo galaga!! best return on 1 quarter was breaking a million. of course it took a ton of quarters to reach that point.
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Redd:
"You would argue that sitting on a re-arm pad in something that looks like a dalek, with your finger poised on the .ef keys , shooting at planes that are not even engaging you , displays some form of aggression or skill ?
I would liken it to space invaders at best. Wouldn't rate as high as Galaga though - that was quite tricky"
First off I have never sat on a re-arm pad {the fiters use it as a target} Second, I don't exit out when the bombs start fallin'. Anyone who has fought or flew over LTAR knows we don't .EF !
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i know that sticky tape is here somewhere!!!!!
:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Oh jeezuz, give me a break...! :rolleyes:
I can't help it if a lone Knight P-38 is enough to instill fear into the hearts of Rookies.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I can't help it if a lone Knight P-38 is enough to instill fear into the hearts of Rookies.
ack-ack
A lone ANYTHING will work if there's less than 5 of them and they don't have alt. ;)
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>>Takes you 2 hrs to get to hq at alt kill it and they resupply it before your dead lol. <<
Unless you fly off the map and sneak in on an HQ to buff it
That seems kinda cheesy doncha think? Or maybe not.
It seems that some will always see things from their own POV, and disregard the points of others, real or imagined.
From what I have seen so far, many will whine, and others will complain; the two aren't necessarily the same. And some of the complainers may actually have a legitimate point.
But since we are all paying customers, and have the right to want to play the game in the way we see fit, there will always be conflicting views. OTOH, we pay to play but, there have to be rules set so all paying customers get some enjoyment out of it.
HT and company have a tough chore making all of the ends meet, it aint me :aok
I retain the right to get pissed about dweeblike behavior, simply because it is just that. I find I do not agree with most of the points you make here, because it seems you find many of the things I dislike and find dweeblike, to be okay.
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>>You have 736 kills so far this Tour, 554 of them in an Ostie, 68 as a ship/field gunner and 114 kills in planes. I think Ack-Ack was dead on, you might want to spend more time in planes before trying to hand out advise on how to fly <<
Uh Elfie:
I really think you may wanna rely on other info before you go handing this kind of advice out; I know Zazen; I don't know you. I have seen him fly, fight and kill, I don't know anything about you.
I have also learned a thing or two about AH:
the stats in here don't amount to much, nor does rank. There are plenty of players in this game who are excellent sticks, and ya wouldn't know it by looking up their stats.
Hehe if he toasted you while he was in an Ostie, well shame on ya :) ya need to be more careful. He has been getting an abnormal amount of kills in an Ostie this camp because he has chosen to do so. It takes a lot of skill to get multiple kills in one.
He gives adsvice on flying because he is good at that too. But, you don't hafta take my word for it :D
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>>Maybe if you ask really nicely, he'll let you .join his Osty so you can see exactly how he does so well in it.
From what I understand, his method does not involve holding down the trigger and whirling the turret around<<
Bingo!! Touche' Urchin
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>>I can't help it if a lone Knight P-38 is enough to instill fear into the hearts of Rookies. <<
Hmm just the opposite Ack-Ack...more like meast on the table :D
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I've seen Zazen fly and I'm not impressed Don.
Hehe if he toasted you while he was in an Ostie, well shame on ya ya need to be more careful.
Also, now that I can actually see gv's from the air before I have flown past them, should make a bit of a difference now :P
If you had read the entire thread you wouldnt have missed that :D I use ground vis mode now when over or near an enemy base just so I can see where and how many gv's there are. Ground vis mode kinda sucks though, my fr drops from 40's-50's down to the teens when I turn it on, Gotta figure out why and hopefully fix it.
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>>If you had read the entire thread you wouldnt have missed that <<
I did Elfie, but that wasn't my point. It really isnt all that important right now. Hehe, and as for your being unimpressed with Zazen then...thats your deal too. :) I suppose you're just gonna hafta figure your way around.
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/357_1096825730_picture2.jpg)
fly what you love:)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/357_1093050520_ahss6.jpg)
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Originally posted by DipStick
A lone ANYTHING will work if there's less than 5 of them and they don't have alt. ;)
HAHAHA!
ack-ack
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Gofaster,
It's not really a problem, they can only do it once a day.
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>>Gofaster,
It's not really a problem, they can only do it once a day.<<
The annoying thing is WHEN they do it. Hehe, if the jump is timed just right, you can get 25 free perkies if you hang around long enough; just move on over to the side that is winning ;(
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Originally posted by Don
>>Gofaster,
It's not really a problem, they can only do it once a day.<<
The annoying thing is WHEN they do it. Hehe, if the jump is timed just right, you can get 25 free perkies if you hang around long enough; just move on over to the side that is winning ;(
WRONG ... you can change countries every 6 hours, but I believe that you still have to remain in a country for 12 hours to get the perks.
Even if HT did change it from 12 to 6, you still can't jump to a side just before a reset and collect the "Win the War" perks.
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Interseting thing happened last night. I was in a 38 again and along comes this higher P-51D. The P-51 driver dives on me, I evade his first guns pass and watch for his zoom climb......which doesnt materialize and.....I CANT FIND HIM!!! ACK! I roll my 38 to the right a bit to check my low 6. Lo and behold there he was!! :rofl I turn into him, nose low, he follows, as we cross I reverse my turn to follow him, after about 3 nose low turns I am roughly 15 seconds from a kill shot, the P-51 driver wisely disengages and dives away.
This 51 driver (unlike the one I spoke of earlier) actually showed some aggressiveness and brain power. He knew exactly when to disengage and how, instead of making a single high speed pass and then running out of icon range, this guy actually tryed to fight, and he lived to tell about it. I didnt follow him home to vulch him landing like I did the other guy. I let him go because he tryed to fight, and he also flew smart. Sure, he took a huge gamble in trying to turn with me, but he was trying to do the unexpected and grab a quick kill. Nothing at all wrong with that :)
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Nice Elfie, I wish that was the norm.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Interseting thing happened last night. I was in a 38 again and along comes this higher P-51D. The P-51 driver dives on me, I evade his first guns pass and watch for his zoom climb......which doesnt materialize and.....I CANT FIND HIM!!! ACK! I roll my 38 to the right a bit to check my low 6. Lo and behold there he was!! :rofl I turn into him, nose low, he follows, as we cross I reverse my turn to follow him, after about 3 nose low turns I am roughly 15 seconds from a kill shot, the P-51 driver wisely disengages and dives away.
This 51 driver (unlike the one I spoke of earlier) actually showed some aggressiveness and brain power. He knew exactly when to disengage and how, instead of making a single high speed pass and then running out of icon range, this guy actually tryed to fight, and he lived to tell about it. I didnt follow him home to vulch him landing like I did the other guy. I let him go because he tryed to fight, and he also flew smart. Sure, he took a huge gamble in trying to turn with me, but he was trying to do the unexpected and grab a quick kill. Nothing at all wrong with that :)
Wish my flight was like that last night. I run into Fuse flying a Spitfire Mk IX with about 3,000ft advantage over me and he dives down for the merge and keeps on diving to the deck for the protection of a horde of his fellow Bish. He then starts up on the radio telling me to come down off my perch and engage him. Timid.
ack-ack