Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 02:18:31 AM

Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 02:18:31 AM
Finally some good news from Iraq.

I hope soon we will have more (the UK hostage).

The 2 girls have been treated respectfully and released yesterday with a box of cakes as a gift. :lol

There have been reports of a 1 million € paid to the group.

I dont know you all, but I am happy some of you voyeristic sadists will have one video less to see.

;)

(Joking)
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: CyranoAH on September 29, 2004, 02:26:13 AM
Good news, finally!
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 29, 2004, 02:52:46 AM
That 1 million euro payoff will teach the terrorists that kidnapping doesnt work!
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 02:58:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
That 1 million euro payoff will teach the terrorists that kidnapping doesnt work!


I dont care if you would have preferred to see more deaths, I am happy both of them are alive and safe.
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 29, 2004, 03:11:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Naso
I dont care if you would have preferred to see more deaths, I am happy both of them are alive and safe.


You are right,  the huge payment to the terrorists will discourge other kidnappings so fewer people's lives will placed at risk in the future...
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 03:12:10 AM
Anyway, stupid remarks aside, you have to understand how the kidnapping usually work down there.

First, there's many more kidnappings that you have reported by our news, that are interested only to the westerners.

There's a criminal industry of kidnapping, that usually ends in the payment of a ransom.

When the kidnapped is a westerner or a good political target, the criminal group try to sell him to a terrorist/political group.

In this particular case, seem that the terrorist organizations have refused to buy the 2 girls, for many reasons, and the criminal group, being contacted by mediators, have accepted the final agreement of 1 million, from the initial 5 millions request.

The strange thing was that the kidnappers were polite and gentle, and seemed organized like military ("yes sir", "no sir" kind of internal comms).

Maybe ex-Army people that found a new way to "create wage".

Continuing to see the world in black and white, in a simple dualistic way, we and them, us and terrorists, it's akin to generate dangerous mistakes.
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 29, 2004, 03:15:52 AM
Typical  overanalyis, who cares what they are called, terrorists, gangesters lunatics whatever...  They took your people and now ou gave them money.

Maybe you should call them your business partners, because yiou will  be dealing with them like this in the future...
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 03:17:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You are right,  the huge payment to the terrorists will discourge other kidnappings so fewer people's lives will placed at risk in the future...


I was writing my above post, I suggest you read it.

If the hostages are valuable, the huge payment will be provided by the terrorist organizations themselves.

The terrorists operating in Iraq are not short on money.

They are financial supported by economical powers with roots in our/your ally Saudi Arabia.
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 03:19:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Typical  overanalyis, .....SNIP.....


Yes, better not think.
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Wotan on September 29, 2004, 03:23:48 AM
Naso,

The point is as long as there is profit in kidnappings then they will continue.
 
It doesn't matter if the kidnapping is for politics, terror or profit. As long as folks cave into the demands of the kidnappers it ensures more will happen.

The phrase "We will not negotiate with kidnappers" isn’t a statement of bravado or pride it is the only way to discourage future kidnappings. By showing the criminals that they will gain nothing they will be less inclined to follow that path. A 1 million dollar pay out is no way to discourage them.

It may be good news for the 2 girls and their families but it puts at risk everyone else in that area.

Should we (the world) just write them (bad guys) a check everytime some one gets nabbed?  Where does it end?
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 29, 2004, 03:26:06 AM
Naso this will encourage people to kidnap westerners for money. It will start new kidnapping "businesess." This kidnapping thing is pretty easy, just get a few friends together, grab your AK rifles and snatch a european or two. Hold them till the payment comes and you are rich.. Its a great business for poor iraqis.. Simple capitalism..  

Maybe they should kidnap some french or germans, those two countries really need to contribute some money to help develop the iraqi economy... ;)
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 03:46:09 AM
Wotan,
the "no negotiate" tactic has worked well here in Italy during the time that a kidnapping industry have flourished (I seem to remember was during the '70s).

The situation is different in Iraq, because there's a 3rd party, the terrorist organizations, willing to acquire hostages for their psychological media campaign.

Maybe this precedent can have some positive consequence in suggesting the criminals to not rush to sell the hostages to the terrorist organizations, but contact/be contacted by us for a better deal.

Later, when the control will be finally acquired (if ever) we can apply tactics that worked in our full controlled countries.

It's my opinion, of course.

Grun,
in fact there are the 2 french journalists and it's unknown if they have been already selled to the terrorists or not.

The Uk hostage it's already in the hands of the terrorists, but maybe the interest that Arafat has showed to pressure for his freedom may result in good things.
But this case is more at the political level than economical.

And the kidnapping business it's already there and working, but the western targets are becoming more difficult, because the no-profit organizations have retreated, and the red cross it's generally escorted and protected by military.

The kidnapping business that target Iraqis it's working since the start, but is no news for our medias.
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 03:48:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Naso this will encourage people to kidnap westerners for money. It will start new kidnapping "businesess." This kidnapping thing is pretty easy, just get a few friends together, grab your AK rifles and snatch a european or two. Hold them till the payment comes and you are rich.. Its a great business for poor iraqis.. Simple capitalism..  


This is what you wanted, uh?

Make them democratic capitalists?

;)
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 29, 2004, 03:55:53 AM
And it seems europe is helping us do it. And to think, once I said erope was useless. ;)
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Naso on September 29, 2004, 04:03:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And it seems europe is helping us do it. And to think, once I said erope was useless. ;)


You was wrong. :D
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Saintaw on September 29, 2004, 05:20:50 AM
PM to AQ: Please, someone kidnap GRUNHERZ, we will pay for you to keep him locked up!
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 29, 2004, 05:38:00 AM
I always knew saw was an Al Qaeda fan.. How much did you pay them for 911?
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Saintaw on September 29, 2004, 05:42:01 AM
Eh? I might be an arse at times, but that would be pushing. (did I realy put "arse" and "pushing" in the same sentence?)
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 29, 2004, 05:46:00 AM
;)  Forgot the emoticon, sorry bout that.  But yes ur an prettythang. :)
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Staga on September 29, 2004, 05:49:59 AM
Yeah but that's because of Grun :)
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Maverick on September 29, 2004, 08:34:50 AM
I guess this must be ok. After all, they were "polite", militaristic in behaviour and acted in a business like manner only for money. There couldn't be anything negative about kidnapping and SELLING human beings to terrorist groups as long as your polite about it. :rolleyes:

No there isn't ANY benefit to the terrorists by supplying them money, hostages, publicity and outright aid in their activities by legitimizing their operations and glossing it over as a regular practice of exchanging PEOPLE for money.... As long as they give the hostages cakes and are polite.:rolleyes:
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Dago on September 29, 2004, 08:35:42 AM
I am glad the girls are alive, but I agree that paying a ransom only encourages this to happen again.

It is apparent that any western civilians should be under armed guard in Iraq, certainly leaving two western women unguarded was stupid.

dago
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Angus on September 29, 2004, 08:43:16 AM
Look close enough.
Would you have paid if the kidnapped was a loved one?
I'd think I'd pay, get my folks, then go hunting the SOB's....
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: lazs2 on September 29, 2004, 09:08:15 AM
I am glad to see them safe also.   I also know the math.   70% of all westerners kidnapped are killed regardless of if the ransom is paid or not.   The more likely the ransom is to be paid the more it encourages kidnapping.   No easy solution.... especially for the families of the kidnap victim.

lazs
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Dago on September 29, 2004, 10:11:20 AM
Quote
No easy solution.


My easy solution, pull out all westerners, nuke the place, no more problems.

Easy to see why I am not in public office.  :D


dago
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: midnight Target on September 29, 2004, 10:41:12 AM
Glad they are safe.

But it is turning into a big business over there.

Quote
Since April, militant groups in Iraq have seized more than 100 foreign hostages. Most have been released, but about 30 have been killed.
Title: Re: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Ripsnort on September 29, 2004, 10:44:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Naso

There have been reports of a 1 million € paid to the group.

 


I wonder what Allah would say about that?
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Saintaw on September 29, 2004, 10:56:03 AM
cent patates, cent patates!!!
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: bigsky on September 29, 2004, 11:21:57 AM
i wonder if it was the presidents daughters who got kidnaped, would there be any negotiation and/or ransom paid.
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Hawklore on September 29, 2004, 12:56:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
That 1 million euro payoff will teach the terrorists that kidnapping doesnt work!


Yeah, theres no way that they will kidnap again for that kinda money!
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Hawklore on September 29, 2004, 12:57:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bigsky
i wonder if it was the presidents daughters who got kidnaped, would there be any negotiation and/or ransom paid.


Heh, there'd be a price paid, collabirating with a terroist..

They'd sex their way out..


;)
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: Curval on September 29, 2004, 01:08:53 PM
I too am glad the women were released, but as has been already pointed out this payment of a ransom will simply encourage more kidnappings.

Worse, the insurgents can now go out and buy a whole pile of more RPGs and other assorted weapons which will enable them to continue their insurgency.  That ranson could easily have facilitated more US soldier deaths.

I highly doubt the terrorists will be off for a long Carribean holiday now.
Title: The 2 Simona are back home
Post by: hawker238 on September 29, 2004, 04:58:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore
Heh, there'd be a price paid, collabirating with a terroist..

They'd sex their way out..


;)


Errrr, whatever little fantasy this plays into, I'm not going to question it.......