Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Elfie on October 01, 2004, 06:52:21 PM
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In AH1 people made sure to kill acks and the vh FIRST when attempting to capture an enemy base. Now they seem to go after the fighter hangers first and ack and enemy gv's be damned. You also see people trying to vulch a field to suppress it with the acks still up.
It makes sense to me to kill acks and the vh first, then drop remaining ordinance on the town. It also makes sense to at least attempt to take the enemy field intact. ie, fighter hangers, bomber hangers, ord, troops and radar still up. I know this isnt possible in every situation, but it worked in AH1 most of the time.
I have heard the argument that a lone plane getting up at the field has spoiled many base captures. In fact I have seen this happen a couple of times, but have seen a gv making it to town spoil far more base captures.
Why the change in tactics all of a sudden?
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I had originally started on making custom tactical maps for all the fields and towns. I figured they'd get put to good use but never really panned out.
The fields had grids and everything on them. My own personal grid setup even had markers for drop areas that would do the most damage. It also had assignment positions for every target. That was mission planners could assign targets and know who's responsible. They could also get a sit rep on targets destroyed for the second wave of attack groups.
I stopped doing them since it seemed it was just a free for all on how the fields would be taken down.
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You got it right Elfie. Base taking 101.
When the WidowMakers hit a base, we drop vh/ack 1st, always. THEN work on town. Occasional NOE quick capture non wistanding.
I think we have alot of new pilots, and they don't really know how to do it right. When my squad hits a field, it's like clockwork. AND we usually take 'em intact. No point capturing a porked base.
I can't count how many times I saw a base SWARMED with friendlies for an hour 1/2, and they can't take it. Then me and a couple squaddies show up, and it's ours quick. There are just some basic things you have to learn to be succesful in capturing fields.
I JUST now logged, and I hit a field with 4/5 knit's. A lone nme was in the air (deck ish) and 2-3 trying to up. As the other knit's swooped in for the ezy vulch (and died to ack) I was shooting down acks, and deacked by myself. Looked around, and only 1 friendly was still up. Killed a few in the air, shot one or two trying to up, and rtb's w/ 5 kills. Had the other 4 knits hit ack right off, they would still be up, and we'd be much further along to capturing the field.
ONE pont though, if I am in a plane with only .50 cals, I won't even TRY to de-ack a field. It takes 2-3 passes for me to kill field acks using .50 cal. I wish that would change back to AH 1. 200 50 cals to kill ack vs 1 20mm doesnt seem right to me.
my 2 cents
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are Squad does a noe run almost evernight same deal almost evertime
NOE Buffs on FHs
110s Mossies on Town
Fighters deack vulch Cap
the NOE buffs are ether B26s or Lancs and there very skilled at this NOE buff run abilty to take out FH
half of the time some one kills the Goon and its over
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Originally posted by simshell
are Squad does a noe run almost evernight same deal almost evertime
NOE Buffs on FHs
110s Mossies on Town
Fighters deack vulch Cap
the NOE buffs are ether B26s or Lancs and there very skilled at this NOE buff run abilty to take out FH
half of the time some one kills the Goon and its over
You dont even mention taking out the vh, gv's are a huge threat to capping a base and dropping troops on a town. Once the vh is down it normally doesnt take many fighters to keep it capped (once all airborne fighters are down).
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ok, has something changed on base taking on AH2?
twice we have had the town FLAT, trust me it was flat, and we were able to get in 10 troops, and yes it was 10 troops dropped above 800ft agl. ( once 2 goons landed and unloaded and got nothing) And we did not get the capture. Someone mentioned that something had changed in ah2 (ack on field or something). Has anything changed? Is it the same recipe........all buildings down, 10 troops in maproom?
I am willing to accept that we missed something obvious here, but there were a lot of witnesses on the fact that everything was done right for a capture.
any thoughts?
Tapakeg
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ONE pont though, if I am in a plane with only .50 cals, I won't even TRY to de-ack a field. It takes 2-3 passes for me to kill field acks using .50 cal. I wish that would change back to AH 1. 200 50 cals to kill ack vs 1 20mm doesnt seem right to me.
Carry rockets for the acks imo. Especially for manned acks. Even cannon armed a/c have to get relatively close to take out acks.
I'm guessing here, but I *think* the fact that .50's have such a hard time with acks now is because HTC changed the armor penetration values for the .50 and 20mm rnds. That could also explain why .50's seem less lethal to a/c now as well.
I think I would rather see the .50's having a hard time with acks than I would seeing .50's and 20mm guns strafing tanks to death again.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Carry rockets for the acks imo. Especially for manned acks. Even cannon armed a/c have to get relatively close to take out acks.
I'm guessing here, but I *think* the fact that .50's have such a hard time with acks now is because HTC changed the armor penetration values for the .50 and 20mm rnds. That could also explain why .50's seem less lethal to a/c now as well.
I think I would rather see the .50's having a hard time with acks than I would seeing .50's and 20mm guns strafing tanks to death again.
Whatever was changed, HAS affected how a 20mm dmg's GV's, but still one NEAR hit kills ack with a 20mm (any type, jap. Brit. luft) whereas I can put a TON o' .50 cals dead on and I STILL have to take a couple passes.
Agreed re. the rockets. I use 'em for ack lots.
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Originally posted by simshell
the NOE buffs are ether B26s or Lancs and there very skilled at this NOE buff run abilty to take out FH
NOE buff pilots dont need skill at all :rolleyes:
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As opposed to auto climbing to 30k afk with the kettle on?
I believe there is just as much skill in NOE run as high alt - both need a planned route in to give a good line on targets, 30 secs calibration vs time setting up for a low drop (this is precsision ground pounding), and fighting way out through egress.
For those of you who think bombing calibration must always be used, remember dambusters when they used the lights and sights?
If defending a base, I'd much prefer the bombers to come in low. At least something can be done about it.
I do have a problem with the guys that suicide themselves or the ones that reckon near vertical is an acceptable drop angle, but hey watchyagonnado?
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Originally posted by tapakeg
ok, has something changed on base taking on AH2?
twice we have had the town FLAT, trust me it was flat, and we were able to get in 10 troops, and yes it was 10 troops dropped above 800ft agl. ( once 2 goons landed and unloaded and got nothing) And we did not get the capture. [...]
There is at least 1 very small structure (something like a bunker) in town. You won't see it if you don't fly very low. Not so easy to confirm town flat in AH2.
About base taking strategy.
However you do it.
-VH must be down. There are some really good GVers. And if 1 of them decides to mix in, you're screwed.
-Ack must be down.
-Town must be flat. :D
-You must have troops. :rofl
mofa
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Originally posted by Darkish
...I do have a problem with the guys that suicide themselves or the ones that reckon near vertical is an acceptable drop angle, but hey watchyagonnado?
That's is where a death limiter would put a stop on these guy's that love to pork & augre a base or CV. I think that most of the ones doing it are probably kids, who's whole use of unlimited life's in a game is to repeatedly bombard a base untill it is of no use or is taken, by rapidly re-upping and hit them again. I realize, that it is part of the game structure to capture a base by any means necessary, but these pork & augre guy's a degrading the game. It's getting to where some of the veteran's of the game are begining to use the no skill technique more often than not.
I don't remember who's idea it was (maybe Waffle,Kweasa, one of the Senior Members) had mentioned a 30 min death limiter at each base or CV, meaning that if you up from a base and die (for whatever reason, pork & augre, shot down, etc.etc.) you can't re-up from that base for 30 min. It would force you to go to another base and re-up, but if you die there, the same effect and so on. Enough of this would force a player to gain the necessary skill to STAY ALIVE, or be forced to go to another area for atleast 30 min, but would have the same consequences there also.
I understand that this would hurt the new players the most and would defeat the purpose of the 2 week free trial, if all a newbie does is up & die repeatedly during the first 2 weeks. They won't want to subscribe & stay in the game. That is where a training limiter would come in to play. Hitech should allow free unlimited use of the Training Area ONLY, to allow players to gain the necessary skills to survive in the other area's, but once you enter the Main Area ( or any area other than the T A ) your 2 week trial begins. I realize that this game has a very steep learning curve, and it might seem to take forever to gain the necessary skills to survive in the M A, that's when some sort of training profficiency test would help. I've heard it time and time again in the M A, some newbie asking " How do you land an airplane, or what button does what " and thought to myself "OH MY GOD, what is this guy doing in here, he should be in the T A learning this stuff" I know the trainers are already overwhelmed by some of the repetitive questions over and over again, and this would probably add more work for them, but that's what they're there for, and Hitech should recruit more trainers. I am more than willing to help a newbie learn to fly (I've already done that in the T A) when I see the trainers being overwhelmed or a newbie struggling to get off the ground. Although I am a relatively newbie myself and have a lot to learn about ACM, I do have some skills (like flying in both simulators and in real life, been doing it for 20 years and loving every minute that I fly, I've always aspired to own a mustang someday and will).
Anyhoo, there's a couple more pennies for ya, Hitech (are ya getting them?) LOL!:cool:
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Vh doesnt matter because towns are usually far away from the field.
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Originally posted by Elfie
In AH1 people made sure to kill acks and the vh FIRST when attempting to capture an enemy base. Now they seem to go after the fighter hangers first and ack and enemy gv's be damned. You also see people trying to vulch a field to suppress it with the acks still up.
It makes sense to me to kill acks and the vh first, then drop remaining ordinance on the town. It also makes sense to at least attempt to take the enemy field intact. ie, fighter hangers, bomber hangers, ord, troops and radar still up. I know this isnt possible in every situation, but it worked in AH1 most of the time.
I have heard the argument that a lone plane getting up at the field has spoiled many base captures. In fact I have seen this happen a couple of times, but have seen a gv making it to town spoil far more base captures.
Why the change in tactics all of a sudden?
I don't notice a change of tactics at all really.... Since AH1 some rook squads I know of, have always been taking out FH's to make sure planes don't get up. Why the FH's you ask? Cus there are some squads that are just that damn good... I used to be in Artlaw's squad - however he left the game for a while - and we used to only take 5 planes in AH1 to capture a base. 3 P51's, a 110 or Lanc, and a c47. All 51's downed their FH's in the FIRST pass. Then the town was ready and we got the troops in...
The problem with not taking down the FH's is that in smaller missions, you need atleast 2 people to take out the ack on the field and form a CAP. This takes away from getting the town down and also suppressing incoming fighters from other bases.
So the tactics haven't changed a bit, but I think you are starting to see more and more squads taking out the FH's because it makes it just that much easier to capture a base.
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Originally posted by Mak333
I don't notice a change of tactics at all really.... Since AH1 some rook squads I know of, have always been taking out FH's to make sure planes don't get up. Why the FH's you ask? Cus there are some squads that are just that damn good... I used to be in Artlaw's squad - however he left the game for a while - and we used to only take 5 planes in AH1 to capture a base. 3 P51's, a 110 or Lanc, and a c47. All 51's downed their FH's in the FIRST pass. Then the town was ready and we got the troops in...
The problem with not taking down the FH's is that in smaller missions, you need atleast 2 people to take out the ack on the field and form a CAP. This takes away from getting the town down and also suppressing incoming fighters from other bases.
So the tactics haven't changed a bit, but I think you are starting to see more and more squads taking out the FH's because it makes it just that much easier to capture a base.
Mak333 Sir. Elfie, One of the squads he's talking about is the 339th. Errrr WAS the 339th. In, one pass total FH and VH distruction and out! Take 'em down Everytime. Clean the ACK and Cons, Trash the City and the Field was ours. AH2 with it's larger towns, quick rebuild times, Super ACK, and finally Eny has made this a "Lost Art" No pun intended Mak! AH2 is no longer about Field Capture and/or resets. It's about QuakeBirds a "First Person Shooter". Not a SIM a game.
To take a Medium field, you'll need at least 10 pilots. If your interested talk to anyone in my squad or me. We will give you Base Taking - 101, 202, 303, and 404. Some of us have our Masters mand PHD's in it.
I would hurry though. Our show is about to "Go On the Road"
Regards Sirs,
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There are only two things that need to be taken down at a feild to capture.
the VH and the town.
That is IF you are willing to deal with feild ack, and as I witness night after night more people seem to be perfectly willing to ignore ack to get the vulch. Even if there is nothing up to vulch.
If not then there are 4 things.
50 cal or no 50 Cal if everyone hitting a base fires a few bursts on ack as they make their vulch pass the ack will go down. Same thing with the VH. If everyone trying to vulch the feild fires a few rounds at the VH as they are passing over it, it WILL go down.
Problem is more people are interested in the vulch then they are with taking the VH and /or ack down.
Having the FH's down is a bonus but that ord would better be put to use on the town.
another thing on the town.
You really need to have troops on station if you are going to continue to attack the town in the current haphazard way its being hit now.
What I see happening is a couple planes come in, take a couple buildings down then go to the feild. which is cool cept it is often a few min before the next group of planes hit the town again.
what ends up happening is practically no sooner does the last building go down before the first buildings down start popping back up. Often just as the goon or M3 is dropping off troops.
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DREDIOCK???
You are kidding right? If your going to do it that way you need a horde 30 pilots or more to stop GVs and the ac lifing off in droves.
We are not talking technically here, we are talking like Really getting it done in the field!
Regards Sir,
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Originally posted by dracon
DREDIOCK???
You are kidding right? If your going to do it that way you need a horde 30 pilots or more to stop GVs and the ac lifing off in droves.
We are not talking technically here, we are talking like Really getting it done in the field!
Regards Sir,
No, reread my post. I said
"There are only two things that need to be taken down at a feild to capture.
the VH and the town"
Taking feild ack down also is better then killing the FH's
After all if feild ack and VH is down and the base is capped it doesnt matter if the planes are trying to up. Just means easy vulch kills.
But easily the town and the VH followed by feild ack are far more important to take down then the FH's
You dont need to kill all the FH's to take the feild. Just keep the base capped. And you only need 2-4 people flying cap to do that.
Hell if the first person that comes in pops the VH, half if not more of the current defending aircraft are gonna develop tunnelvision and chase him to the ends of the earth anyway All he has to do is fly away from the town and fly slow enough so that the planes giving chase dont loose intrest LOL
the best most effective way to take a base is with speed. the longer it takes you to get the VH and town down the less likely it is your gonna take that base anytime soon. And too often and im sure you all hear this the radio chatter goes something like this
"Towns down we need troops"
"ok Ill go get some"
or
"soinso is upping a goon from X Base now"
Well upping troops from a base now isnt good enough, They needed to be upped ten min ago when the attack was freash then they would be arriving at the same time the town and VH went down.
And if you can get a goon on station the same time as your main attack all you really need down is the town.
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A word to the newbies.
When you get frustrated in fighters yet still want to help. Grab a goon with troops and follow that blob that just upped with troops. and follow them in low.
If you go low and everyone else goes on autoclimb. odds are you will arrive at the base either at the same time, or very shortly after the base attack has started.
actually depending on the fighters being used you may even have to fly slower or you may get there before the attack has started
Nowhere near enough goon drivers in the game.
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DREDIOCK
Sorry sir,
I 100% and totally disagree. You are just wrong. But, are intitled to your opinnion.
Anyone trying your method will find that out soon enough.
You may get lucky a time or two but the in-game radar we all know and ugh! love signals the attack and soon there will be more enemy then 2-4 could handle, probabaly by the time you reach target. Trust me....I know! The 339th have been doing it most successfully for sometime.
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Originally posted by dracon
DREDIOCK
Sorry sir,
I 100% and totally disagree. You are just wrong. But, are intitled to your opinnion.
Anyone trying your method will find that out soon enough.
You may get lucky a time or two but the in-game radar we all know and ugh! love signals the attack and soon there will be more enemy then 2-4 could handle, probabaly by the time you reach target. Trust me....I know! The 339th have been doing it most successfully for sometime.
I've seen both methods fail. And I've seen both methods succeed about the same
Mine and yours.
With 10 Pilots Im assuming everyone is heavy. Taking bases my way is just as effective as yours.
You dont need the FHs down. it makes it alot easier yes but if you have your timing down (goon arrival) the FH's are the least of the important targets that need to go down. VH is far more of an important target then FHs.
the Dar presents every bit as much the same problem for your plan as mine.
both methods will work
I know., I've done it
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Just looked up your website and See you guys are rook.
No offence but until very recently you folks have also had the benifit of having numbers on your side which makes basetaking alot easier.
Not necessarily meaning more numbers attacking a particular base but overall numbers and thus forcing us to deal with attacks on several bases at the same time which spreads us out
Due to this
Knights and Bish have had to learn to do more with less so in retrospect its not surprising that our methods will differ.
your way does work. i wont deny that.
My way works also. Its just my way needs a little bit more... finesse and timing LOL
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My 2 cents... listen to what Drediock is saying to u.... he has been here a LOOONNNGGGG.... time... and does know what he's talking about.
Just so it is clear, I am a memeber of the squadron that Drediock flys in. I know from experience that properly executed, a base can be taken by 4 or 5 pilots in 1 to 2 passes. I've seen done alot... I've helped do it alot.
Kill the VH first and foremost... nothing, and I mean nothin else has a higher target priority than that VH. Kill it, and u deny the enemy the ability to protect the town. There only recourse is to use aircraft, and since the second priority after vh is de-ack, they cannot up from a field that is capped... or ready for a vulch fest if u prefer that analogy.
The town is harder to kill in AHII, there's no doubt about that... but not because it is "hardened"... simply because it is so much larger. But again, to reiterate, 4 to 5 guys in the right platform can, and will, devastate a base in a few passes if done right.
My unit will typically take 4 or 5 Jugs, loaded to the gills, and wreak havoc in the space of a few short minutes... it gives u a warm fuzzy feeling when u pull out off ur 2nd pass on the field and see nothing but funeral pyres where once stood hangers.
There is one caveat tho... u better do it right the first time. If u blow the initial strike advantage u are screwed... hit first, hit hard, and hit fast. Don't give ur enemy a chance to respond. Kill em and be done with it... simple as that. To put it simply, I say.... " Don't bring a knife to a gunfight"
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I am up for a ride-along anytime gents! What's your country and what's your squad?
I am looking for a way for the 339th to survive this Eny BS. I'll do business with the Devil himself.......You guys seem much nicer!
dracons@gmail.com
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
....Well upping troops from a base now isnt good enough, They needed to be upped ten min ago when the attack was freash then they would be arriving at the same time the town and VH went down.
And if you can get a goon on station the same time as your main attack all you really need down is the town.
I am usually one of the pilot's flying the goon, and there is usually at least 1 or 2 goons that up with evey mission to a base.
More often than not, there is NO PROTECTION for the goon. Everyone is going full tilt boogie into the base, often leaving the goons behind to fend for themselves. And of course there is always a goon hunter out, sweeping out around, and behind the main body of the attack force, because he knows that the goon is unprotected and alone.
I'm sure that most of you know how frustrating it is, to get within site of the base, or on station at the base, waiting for the last building to be dropped, only to be shot down from behind, for the lack of protection for the goon.
YOU HAVE GOT TO PROTECT THE GOON,period.
Otherwise, you risk prolonging the attack while waiting for the goon to re-up and get on station, and risk a counter force coming in and sweeping out the attack force.
And don't start with the "You got to vary your approach to the target", been there, done that. I've tried misdirection, varying altitudes, NOE, 20k. There is always someone out there hunting the goon, and they usually find one, and kill it!
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Originally posted by RobMo68
I am usually one of the pilot's flying the goon, and there is usually at least 1 or 2 goons that up with evey mission to a base.
More often than not, there is NO PROTECTION for the goon. Everyone is going full tilt boogie into the base, often leaving the goons behind to fend for themselves. And of course there is always a goon hunter out, sweeping out around, and behind the main body of the attack force, because he knows that the goon is unprotected and alone.
I'm sure that most of you know how frustrating it is, to get within site of the base, or on station at the base, waiting for the last building to be dropped, only to be shot down from behind, for the lack of protection for the goon.
YOU HAVE GOT TO PROTECT THE GOON,period.
Otherwise, you risk prolonging the attack while waiting for the goon to re-up and get on station, and risk a counter force coming in and sweeping out the attack force.
And don't start with the "You got to vary your approach to the target", been there, done that. I've tried misdirection, varying altitudes, NOE, 20k. There is always someone out there hunting the goon, and they usually find one, and kill it!
Hmmm...... I'm wondering if this is your vast goon driving knowledge and base capture experience talking. In the past few months that you have flow, you have captured a sum total of ONE base in a c47. ONE.
Now those that tell you the best defence for a c47 is being low, and coming from an unusualy approach are totally 100% correct. You are not really able to protect goons. One guy, in a fast plane, can usually wreak havok on Goony drivers. There is really not much of a way to kill them 100% of the time. If the mission is grabin high, they can fly NOE on the deck, and get the goon. If you want to dedicate 6 pilots to goon protection only, the mission will usually not have the punch to take the base. I mean if you have 30+ in the mission, I suppose you can dedicate some guys to fly 5-10K up and out from the troops, and hope to intercept 'em, But unless they are all in 262's, and good luck staying with the goon in a 262, you can't really stop 'em.
The other night, we were in a mission and both of us were flying c47's. You followed the mission path, and flew directly AT the base we were attacking, in a straight line, behind the group. Anybody that has flow this sim. for any length of time knows "that" is almost SURE death of a c47. When I see a huge mission inbound, I just fly under/past them, and kill the stupid goon pilots that are inevetably behind them. In the mission wer were both in, you died 1/2 way to the base. Myself, I went a totally opposite direction, and approached the airfield from the other side. Granted I died also, to the exact same 262 dweeb, BUT I was OVER the town when I died. I made it there, and I was only seconds from dropping. We both died, but who's tactics, and sneaky flying GOT him to the town vs. only 1/2 way there? You then proceeded to whine for about 20min off and on on country chan. that we couldn't protect goons from 262's, which is actually quite silly. I can't COUNT how many times i've upped a 262, and killed dozens of goons, and single handedly kept them from taking the base.
Ya' need to listen and learn. Your at "that" stage of your flying career. You are very new, and need to try and learn from us, as opposed to pluggin' up your ears going "la la la la I am not listening, I think I know better." Out of your 52 c47 deaths in your AH life, you have a sum total of ONE base capture. One out of fifty two. Them pretty cruddy odds. Maybe find someone who has a bit more succesful experience in flying troops, and try to emulate their tactics.
Looking at just a few of my past recent months (3 tours, about how long you have been with us, and i'm hardly a c47 driver), I had 9 captures vs. 4 deaths. I HATE flying troops, and I'll usually up an m3 instead, but I GOT 9 capt. vs. 4 deaths by being sneaky and smart about HOW I flew in the troops. I took the extra 10-15min, to approach from a direction the enemy hopefully won't be looking at, and I'm reasonably succesful in my tactics.
Bottom line, the best defense in a c47, is being sneaky and smart. Wanting to depend on the flying skills of others to keep you alive is a good formula for geting frustrated in AH.
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Originally posted by flyingaround
Hmmm...... I'm wondering if this is your vast goon driving knowledge and base capture experience talking. In the past few months that you have flow, you have captured a sum total of ONE base in a c47. ONE.
Now those that tell you the best defence for a c47 is being low, and coming from an unusualy approach are totally 100% correct. You are not really able to protect goons. One guy, in a fast plane, can usually wreak havok on Goony drivers. There is really not much of a way to kill them 100% of the time. If the mission is grabin high, they can fly NOE on the deck, and get the goon. If you want to dedicate 6 pilots to goon protection only, the mission will usually not have the punch to take the base. I mean if you have 30+ in the mission, I suppose you can dedicate some guys to fly 5-10K up and out from the troops, and hope to intercept 'em, But unless they are all in 262's, and good luck staying with the goon in a 262, you can't really stop 'em.
The other night, we were in a mission and both of us were flying c47's. You followed the mission path, and flew directly AT the base we were attacking, in a straight line, behind the group. Anybody that has flow this sim. for any length of time knows "that" is almost SURE death of a c47. When I see a huge mission inbound, I just fly under/past them, and kill the stupid goon pilots that are inevetably behind them. In the mission wer were both in, you died 1/2 way to the base. Myself, I went a totally opposite direction, and approached the airfield from the other side. Granted I died also, to the exact same 262 dweeb, BUT I was OVER the town when I died. I made it there, and I was only seconds from dropping. We both died, but who's tactics, and sneaky flying GOT him to the town vs. only 1/2 way there? You then proceeded to whine for about 20min off and on on country chan. that we couldn't protect goons from 262's, which is actually quite silly. I can't COUNT how many times i've upped a 262, and killed dozens of goons, and single handedly kept them from taking the base.
Ya' need to listen and learn. Your at "that" stage of your flying career. You are very new, and need to try and learn from us, as opposed to pluggin' up your ears going "la la la la I am not listening, I think I know better." Out of your 52 c47 deaths in your AH life, you have a sum total of ONE base capture. One out of fifty two. Them pretty cruddy odds. Maybe find someone who has a bit more succesful experience in flying troops, and try to emulate their tactics.
Looking at just a few of my past recent months (3 tours, about how long you have been with us, and i'm hardly a c47 driver), I had 9 captures vs. 4 deaths. I HATE flying troops, and I'll usually up an m3 instead, but I GOT 9 capt. vs. 4 deaths by being sneaky and smart about HOW I flew in the troops. I took the extra 10-15min, to approach from a direction the enemy hopefully won't be looking at, and I'm reasonably succesful in my tactics.
Bottom line, the best defense in a c47, is being sneaky and smart. Wanting to depend on the flying skills of others to keep you alive is a good formula for geting frustrated in AH.
Lute,
I knew some IDIOT was gonna drag out the old stat sheet, and start in on the "you're too new to know what you're talking about", spiel. Didn't think it'd be you. So before you start in on some BS about your vast experience as a goon driver, READ MY POST AGAIN! And if you can't figure out why I flew straight into that target, well, your dumber than I thought you were.
And if I'm not mistaken, YOU HAVE TO LAND TO "SCORE" THE CAPTURE. You can't land it, if your DEAD. Do you know how many times I've gotten the message "MAP ROOM DESTROYED", and got shot to hell before I could land. Ask some of the "FB's" how many times I flown a goon for them, because no one else would do it, and only wanted to bore in, score and egress.
And if I wanted a lesson in tactics, I'll ask SHANE or one of the Trainers like Fuzeman or WideWing.
So use your head for something other than a hat rack, BEFORE you start slammin' me, enough said.
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How do you guys do it? How do you see the ack? I can't see it unless it is firing at me and I can shoot at the general direction of the tracer fired at me. That requires me to line up with it with not exactly the desired results
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"I do have a problem with the guys that suicide themselves or the ones that reckon near vertical is an acceptable drop angle, but hey watchyagonnado?"
By the "almost vertical drop angle" are you referring to bombs or troops?
If troops... well I for one prefer to drop like this.. as it is quicker and puts the troops right on the map room with very little "run time" needed...
This ensures a quicker capture. :aok
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Lute, ACK now can nto be kileld by 1 20mm unless it is a lucky hit directly on the structure. it takes 2-3 min.
anyway what has changed?
now you actually have to HIT the gun itself with the .50's because they are not exploding rounds.
cannons explode, and ack was strengethened to something like 100lbs of damage, where before it was like 50lbs
since the energy of the explosion of the cannon hits nearby objects it kills ack easier.
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Originally posted by eta32
By the "almost vertical drop angle" are you referring to bombs or troops?
If troops... well I for one prefer to drop like this.. as it is quicker and puts the troops right on the map room with very little "run time" needed...
This ensures a quicker capture. :aok
Having jumped from C-130s many times, I can tell you that anything but level flight makes exiting the aircraft almost impossible and strings out your chalk over a much greater distance.
Putting troops out during a loop? No way.
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Drediock, Agflit22,
what are you guys somking? You may take a airfield but only if the opposition does not respond and musters 6 or 7 guys to up against you. If you only have 5 aircraft total, one is a goon, of the 4 left, how many attack and take out the Filde ack at the airfield? how many at the town? How many aircraft attack the town? while 6 nme aircraft try to up, who is doing what? Your numbers just don't add up.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Vh doesnt matter because towns are usually far away from the field.
VH DOES matter, it's not that far of a drive to any town in an M-16, and doesnt take that much longer to drive an ostie to town either. Also, its FAR easier to keep a base capped while waiting for drunks to show up if the field isnt covered in enemy gv's.
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I cant even count the # of bases captured with vh operational. It all depends on timing of the goon. M16s are easier kills for friendlys in the area and ostis are slow as pnzrs.
oh yeah keep a base capped, you really mean vulch. lol
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And if I'm not mistaken, YOU HAVE TO LAND TO "SCORE" THE CAPTURE. You can't land it, if your DEAD. Do you know how many times I've gotten the message "MAP ROOM DESTROYED", and got shot to hell before I could land.
As far as I know you dont have to land to score the capture, as soon as you get the message MAP ROOM DESTROYED you *score* the capture.
I read your post. You ask for goons to be protected. That is virtually impossible vs a determined goon hunter.
It definately takes more ordinance to capture a field in AH2 than it did in AH1, I still dont understand the mentality of killing all the fh's every single time though. I understand that in some situations it is desirable to kill the fh's. In most situations that isnt even needed.
IF there are enough fighters to keep the field capped AFTER it is deacked and the vh is down, why not leave the FH's up and have a serviceable field after the capture?
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Originally posted by Raider179
I cant even count the # of bases captured with vh operational. It all depends on timing of the goon. M16s are easier kills for friendlys in the area and ostis are slow as pnzrs.
oh yeah keep a base capped, you really mean vulch. lol
Call it what ya want. It's FAR easier to gun down a plane taking off than it is to kill multiple gv's pouring out of the vh. If for no other reason than that, the vh should be taken down FIRST.
A good gunner in an M-16 can and will make attackers pay dearly. I remember taking down 7 enemy fighters as I raced from the vh to the town, then shot up 2 goons AT the town before fighter #8 got me. (I was in an M-16)
Killing the VH FIRST forces the enemy to use planes to defend their town. It also allows inbnd friendlies to use ordinance on the town instead of trying to clean up the gv's.
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Originally posted by RobMo68
Lute,
I knew some IDIOT was gonna drag out the old stat sheet, and start in on the "you're too new to know what you're talking about", spiel. Didn't think it'd be you. So before you start in on some BS about your vast experience as a goon driver, READ MY POST AGAIN! And if you can't figure out why I flew straight into that target, well, your dumber than I thought you were.
And if I'm not mistaken, YOU HAVE TO LAND TO "SCORE" THE CAPTURE. You can't land it, if your DEAD. Do you know how many times I've gotten the message "MAP ROOM DESTROYED", and got shot to hell before I could land. Ask some of the "FB's" how many times I flown a goon for them, because no one else would do it, and only wanted to bore in, score and egress.
And if I wanted a lesson in tactics, I'll ask SHANE or one of the Trainers like Fuzeman or WideWing.
So use your head for something other than a hat rack, BEFORE you start slammin' me, enough said.
ROFL. Wow. so you DON'T wanna learn anything.
FIRST off, I can't think of a single thing Fuzeman, WideWing, OR Shane can teach you that I am unable. I spend (or try anyway) about an hour a day in the TA teaching/helping the new guys, (per the head Trainer Ghost, who asked me to) and am not quite sure where you are going with your line of argument.
Secondly, it is your own fault you die. Don't want to? Then take some advice and learn. Don't wanna learn? Then quit complaining.
(p.s. had 'bout a page worth of a post going, but decided it was wasting my time)
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Originally posted by dedalos
How do you guys do it? How do you see the ack? I can't see it unless it is firing at me and I can shoot at the general direction of the tracer fired at me. That requires me to line up with it with not exactly the desired results
Look for the circles on the field, the ack guns are dead center in those circles.
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Originally posted by flyingaround
ROFL. Wow. so you DON'T wanna learn anything.
FIRST off, I can't think of a single thing Fuzeman, WideWing, OR Shane can teach you that I am unable. I spend (or try anyway) about an hour a day in the TA teaching/helping the new guys, (per the head Trainer Ghost, who asked me to) and am not quite sure where you are going with your line of argument.
Secondly, it is your own fault you die. Don't want to? Then take some advice and learn. Don't wanna learn? Then quit complaining.
(p.s. had 'bout a page worth of a post going, but decided it was wasting my time)
Lute,
1st. I don't seek help from those that start out telling me how new or stupid I am. So, your not sure where I'm going with my line of argument (HERE'S YER SIGN), If I wanted your help, I would have asked for it .
2nd. You clearly can't see past the end of your nose to READ and COMPREHEND what I wrote, so leave well enough alone!
Elfie,
1st. I don't think so. The one CAPTURE that I was able to "score" ( as Lute not so politely pointed out ) as a capture, was one I was able to land at the field that I had just CAPTURED. The rest were either scored as ditches or deaths, because I was either shot down or ditched after being shot up. I got points for those other captures but they weren't scored as a capture.
2nd. The one capture that I was able to "score" I had an escort of 2 fighters all the way into the target (1 got 3 kills,1 got 1 on the way in), both were later shot down over the target. Without their help I would have been shot down before reaching the target, and would have been in for another long flight back to the target. So it's only vitually impossible, because no one wants to babysit (escort) the goon. As for the rest, as I pointed out, if you don't get the capture within the first wave, the success of the attack diminishes exponetially, if it doesn't fail all together.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Look for the circles on the field, the ack guns are dead center in those circles.
Thats what I do but can't telll if there is an ack there or not. Not to mention that I have to be within 1k to 1.5k to even see the circles.
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Originally posted by Traveler
Drediock, Agflit22,
what are you guys somking? You may take a airfield but only if the opposition does not respond and musters 6 or 7 guys to up against you. If you only have 5 aircraft total, one is a goon, of the 4 left, how many attack and take out the Filde ack at the airfield? how many at the town? How many aircraft attack the town? while 6 nme aircraft try to up, who is doing what? Your numbers just don't add up.
I didnt say 4-5, Ag did
I was referring to the 10 and what was needed to be destroyed for base capture
I agree taking a base with only 4-5 while possible would be very tough and everthing would have to be done perfectly and thus is very unlikely.
4-5 would have to be either a quickstrike and snatch NOE run or hitting a virtually undefended base.(milkrun)
In the case of the former all your looking to take down is the town
everyone would have to be loaded to the gills and put their stuff exactly where it needs to be. and eveythign would have to be done VERY fast before the base could react in any serious manner.
It can be done but it would be very very tough and alot depends on everything going right, the first time and as you say if the enemy doesnt muster 6-7 guys.
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Originally posted by RobMo68
Lute,
1st. I don't seek help from those that start out telling me how new or stupid I am. So, your not sure where I'm going with my line of argument (HERE'S YER SIGN), If I wanted your help, I would have asked for it .
2nd. You clearly can't see past the end of your nose to READ and COMPREHEND what I wrote, so leave well enough alone!
Not quite sure at what point I called you stupid. Actually, I know I didn't. I Re-read my post, and I called you new, and not wanting to learn anthing, BUT stupid wasn't in there. Now you on the other hand, most def. called me an idiot. Niiiiice. I can overlook your whines re. dying in a goon due to your being so new, and still don't quite know HOW to stay alive. You hurling insults, well, that's just plain sad. (sniff) For some reason you seem to think what you are saying is new, or special. MOST all newbies say similar things. Then they eventually listen to what they are told, or just learn it on their own, and it becomes a non issue.
Looking down my nose? hmmm.... No, I would humbly disagree and say it is more like 8-9yrs of doing this kinda thing (going back to AW here) and a solid 2yrs in AH, vs. your months, and seeing where you are "at" and trying (unsuccesfully i c) to get you "past" the plateu you have reached.
ROFL here's yer sign. Hillbilly eh?
You might not like the fact that your new, i'm not, I tried to help, you got argumentative/insulting, you seem to think i don't understand something you wrote, I've forgotten more re. this game than you will probably learn, so I guess we're at an impass.
I offered a solution to your "issue" re. dying so much. You didn't like it, and wanted to blame others for your deaths. Great. Keep doing it. Hope it works out.
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Originally posted by flyingaround
ROFL. Wow. so you DON'T wanna learn anything.
FIRST off, I can't think of a single thing Fuzeman, WideWing, OR Shane can teach you that I am unable.
That is absolutly not true. There are a lot of things Shane can teach someone that you can't. For example, he can teach you how not to when you die and how to shoot your mouth off when you fly 5k over someones head.
Shane :D
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Robmo, regardless of whether you die or land if YOUR troops make it into the maproom you get credit for the base capture. Not sure what else you are looking for.
As far as protecting goons goes, I cant count the number of times someone in a 51, 262, La-7 etc has dove in on a goon and no one was able to catch the goon hunter before he killed the goon. Flying the C-47 is a dangerous buisiness, C-47's are primary targets and people will die to kill one if it means saving their base.
I used *virtually impossible* because that leaves room for those rare times when you actually can protect a goon. Many. many vets of this game will tell you the same thing. Lute was dead on in his analysis of how to get a goon to a base. Your very best defense is to stay low and approach the enemy base from an unexpected direction. Having fighters near you to protect you also draws attention to you.
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Originally posted by flyingaround
Not quite sure at what point I called you stupid. Actually, I know I didn't. I Re-read my post, and I called you new, and not wanting to learn anthing, BUT stupid wasn't in there. Now you on the other hand, most def. called me an idiot. Niiiiice. I can overlook your whines re. dying in a goon due to your being so new, and still don't quite know HOW to stay alive. You hurling insults, well, that's just plain sad. (sniff) For some reason you seem to think what you are saying is new, or special. MOST all newbies say similar things. Then they eventually listen to what they are told, or just learn it on their own, and it becomes a non issue.
Looking down my nose? hmmm.... No, I would humbly disagree and say it is more like 8-9yrs of doing this kinda thing (going back to AW here) and a solid 2yrs in AH, vs. your months, and seeing where you are "at" and trying (unsuccesfully i c) to get you "past" the plateu you have reached.
ROFL here's yer sign. Hillbilly eh?
You might not like the fact that your new, i'm not, I tried to help, you got argumentative/insulting, you seem to think i don't understand something you wrote, I've forgotten more re. this game than you will probably learn, so I guess we're at an impass.
I offered a solution to your "issue" re. dying so much. You didn't like it, and wanted to blame others for your deaths. Great. Keep doing it. Hope it works out.
Lute,
I asked you to leave well enough alone, but you don't get it. When you say I'm NEW ( I read, STUPID NOOB ) you imply that I don't know a damn thing about tactics. Gonna ask you to leave well enough alone AGAIN.
OBTW, Shane could teach you a thing or two (Mr. 8-9 years experience, I've been doin sims for over 20years) if you would ask him too! I did, and he's willing to teach me. So don't presume that I'm not willing to learn, just don't want to learn from a self proclaimed, know it all, like you .
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Robmo, the only thing Lute did was offer some advice. It is not his fault that when he said you were new that you read *stupid noob*. He is a AH trainer, how does that make him self-proclaimed? As an AH trainer he offered his knowledge, nothing more. Get a grip....
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If i see a mission heading to our base, i take a TIGER tank close to town, keep it under trees untill the dweebs waste all ord. on vh,fhs,town.
By the time town is mostly down and goon waiting , i move close to map room and let them strafe me and crash in my tiger.
I saved a lot of bases alone,the tiger tank is the best defence toy against missions.
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Travaler...
Read my post again... 2 passes and all buildings at field ded... little hard for enemy to up from a field with no FH's don't ya think??...
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Originally posted by ghi
If i see a mission heading to our base, i take a TIGER tank close to town, keep it under trees untill the dweebs waste all ord. on vh,fhs,town.
By the time town is mostly down and goon waiting , i move close to map room and let them strafe me and crash in my tiger.
I saved a lot of bases alone,the tiger tank is the best defence toy against missions.
Thats exactly why the VH should be the first target destroyed on a base :)
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Originally posted by Elfie
Robmo, the only thing Lute did was offer some advice. It is not his fault that when he said you were new that you read *stupid noob*. He is a AH trainer, how does that make him self-proclaimed? As an AH trainer he offered his knowledge, nothing more. Get a grip....
Elfie,
Start with his first reply to me quote "Hmmm...... I'm wondering if this is your vast goon driving knowledge and base capture experience talking...Ya' need to listen and learn. Your at "that" stage of your flying career. You are very new, and need to try and learn from us, as opposed to pluggin' up your ears going "la la la la I am not listening, I think I know better.....ROFL. Wow. so you DON'T wanna learn anything.... " that's what I meant by the *stupid noob* remark, like I'm some little kid or something. He didn't offer advice, he started with criticizing me (and he wasn't so polite about it either) and they weren't constructive criticism's either. I don't care if Hitech himself blew smoke up his back side and told him he's the best trainer alive, I AIN'T BUYIN IT ! I'd rather listen to Shane's insulting criticisms (even though Shane hasn't insulted me yet), than listen to anything Lute has to say! I will not be nice, if you start out by criticizing me first. He must think respect is automatically given, because he's a "TRAINER", sorry about his luck. He'll NEVER, REPEAT NEVER, earn my respect for him (like he cares anyways, so why should I).
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Originally posted by ghi
If i see a mission heading to our base, i take a TIGER tank close to town, keep it under trees untill the dweebs waste all ord. on vh,fhs,town.
By the time town is mostly down and goon waiting , i move close to map room and let them strafe me and crash in my tiger.
I saved a lot of bases alone,the tiger tank is the best defence toy against missions.
yet my tiger has "egg shell armour" :mad:
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I can't stand when people knock out fighter hangers and bomber hangers cause its a easy way of killing a base. If people want to take a base just kill al the planes and keep a vulch on. If people are crazy enough to up from a capped field, let them. Don't keep them on the ground because the hangers are down. I think taking vehical hangers and the ack down is smart but not the fighter hangers and bomber hangers.
Canaris
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Robmo, you took offense to his first post and quoted things from 2 of his posts :) Lute's intention was not to tick you off, but to offer advice. I think you are reading something into his posts that just isnt there.
Let's try something Robmo :)
Don't do this today, wait until tomorrow ok? Reread Lute's first post and do your best to look at it from a different perspective. Also, understand that some people don't always use the best choice of words and that can lead to a post being taken the wrong way. ( I am one of those people IRL, :rofl )
When you reread his initial post try to look at it from the perspective of a trainer that wants to help out. He has no information about you, can't talk to you on the phone to ask questions to determine what, if anything, you are doing wrong, all he has to go on are YOUR stats.
I've known Lute for awhile, I am seriously doubting that he intended any insults in his intial post :)
One last thing Robmo, most people on these boards are very helpful. Like any community we have our retards that flame, insult, and generally act like idiots...BUT...HTC is cracking down on those people. Lute falls in the first category, not the second. Keep that in mind when you reread his first post tomorrow :)
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Originally posted by dedalos
Thats what I do but can't telll if there is an ack there or not. Not to mention that I have to be within 1k to 1.5k to even see the circles.
I just remebered this Dedalos. Use ground vis mode, I had to map mine (used shift +F4). I take a HUGE hit to my fr when I use it, but I only use it to see the locations of gv's and ack emplacements on the field. Most of the acks you can see firing and that definately helps you locate the guns. If you cant see them firing they are either an 88mm ( the hated puffy ack) or a manned ack.
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Originally posted by Canaris
I can't stand when people knock out fighter hangers and bomber hangers cause its a easy way of killing a base. If people want to take a base just kill al the planes and keep a vulch on. If people are crazy enough to up from a capped field, let them. Don't keep them on the ground because the hangers are down. I think taking vehical hangers and the ack down is smart but not the fighter hangers and bomber hangers.
Canaris
Canaris it really depends on the situation. There ARE times when it is definately desireable to drop all hangers on a base. Example: Knights are having difficulty getting to a particular base due to massive resistance. Knocking out the hangers can be a viable tactic to get the Knights close enough to the base to actually start deacking, killing vh etc.
Most of the time it just isnt necessary imo.
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Originally posted by Overlag
yet my tiger has "egg shell armour" :mad:
keep it moving slowly in 2nd,3rd gear and stay in the position #1,never on #3 (MG) if you hear planes diving
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Originally posted by Elfie
Robmo, you took offense to his first post and quoted things from 2 of his posts :) Lute's intention was not to tick you off, but to offer advice. I think you are reading something into his posts that just isnt there.
Let's try something Robmo :)
Don't do this today, wait until tomorrow ok? Reread Lute's first post and do your best to look at it from a different perspective. Also, understand that some people don't always use the best choice of words and that can lead to a post being taken the wrong way. ( I am one of those people IRL, :rofl )
When you reread his initial post try to look at it from the perspective of a trainer that wants to help out. He has no information about you, can't talk to you on the phone to ask questions to determine what, if anything, you are doing wrong, all he has to go on are YOUR stats.
I've known Lute for awhile, I am seriously doubting that he intended any insults in his intial post :)
One last thing Robmo, most people on these boards are very helpful. Like any community we have our retards that flame, insult, and generally act like idiots...BUT...HTC is cracking down on those people. Lute falls in the first category, not the second. Keep that in mind when you reread his first post tomorrow :)
Elfie,
These are the first 2 sentences from his first reply to me "Hmmm...... I'm wondering if this is your vast goon driving knowledge and base capture experience talking. In the past few months that you have flow, you have captured a sum total of ONE base in a c47. ONE. ". Never mind the sucesses I've had in GV's or any other aircraft. When I see a reply starting by taking swings at my abillity or me personally, DON'T expect me to be nice in return let alone listen to what that person has to say, it ain't gonna happen. HE CHOSE TO MAKE IT PERSONAL, I didn't.
Besides, my post was an honest opinion as to why the first wave of attacks fail, making subsequent waves necessary and more likely to fail if the enemy is allowed to mount any sort of resistence from the base being attacked or a nearby base. If he'd had a difference of opinion, I would have left it at that. He chose to start by belittling my abillity (or lack of, as he pointed out).
Either way, at this point, I could care less about what he has to say. So, no I will not wait till tomorrow and reread his post's (he isn't saying anything that I haven't already tried). END OF STORY!
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You cant tell intent from just text Robmo, he wasnt making it personal, not real sure why you are taking it that way.
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Originally posted by agflit22
Travaler...
Read my post again... 2 passes and all buildings at field ded... little hard for enemy to up from a field with no FH's don't ya think??...
Ag.
Your talking about porking a feild with 4-5 planes not killling the town and taking the base.
What we were debating and I was saying is if done correctly the FH's dont have to go down.
Only the VH and town.
And preferably ack.
If you can get ack down You dont need FH's down for sure
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Originally posted by Elfie
You cant tell intent from just text Robmo, he wasnt making it personal, not real sure why you are taking it that way.
I think its pretty clear that it was a patronizing statement by
Lute and I dont see why you defend such behaviour, Elfie.
If it really was an attempt to make a sound argument then I
suggest a more mature attitude next time.
Lute has sure chosen a strange path when he begins to insult
people and then trying to make'em listen. Not a very good tactic
for a trainer, in my opinion. Ive had my share of his abuses too
so I think I know how Rob feels.
To base any conclusion on the some skill of a player by how long
he has played the game is nonsense, the learning curve
differs from individual to individual.
I've only seen it used to mock or insult people.
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Ok...a few things to clear up here.
1. This Goon flying thing goes back to us both being online in the MA, and his whining for 10+min on country channel about how much "we" all suck because "we" couldn't protect him. I wasn't jumping out fresh here, there is a history to this convo, and my sarcastic 1st sentence wasn't based purely on his stats, but more so his actions/words in the MA.
2. Yes I was somewhat being a smart arse in my 1st sentence. It was more in reply to his rude/insulting rants on country channel in the MA,. He went on and on and on about how much everyone sux. because a 262 got his goon. I for one can't think of a single way to prevent a 262 from killing a goon. You can't protect from that. You CAN try and be sneaky, and avoid the goon hunters. Flying behind a mission in a goon, taking an obvious route to a field = cannon fodder for a 262 driver. Bottom line. But that wasn't the 1st RobMo rant i've been party to. He is know to be quite the character in the MA, and spews rude things to his fellow knits all the time.
3. I WAS trying to help. Even when i'm being sarcastic in my post, you will almost always see that I ALSO am offering help, and/or advice. I DO only have his stats to go on (and what i've seen when we've flown 2gether in the MA), and that is enough for me to get at least a rough understanding of how he fly's, and what "stage" of his flying carrer he is in. (last tour) 113 fighter sorties, with 83 deaths vs. 18 kills can tell you a wee bit re. skill. Everybody is new at one time. I don't hold his "skill" level against him, just his people skills. I for one will respond to most jerks with sarcasm, even as I try and help them. Spew a bunch o' crazy drivel, and that colors my opinion. No avoiding that. But I also am quick to forgive, and try my best to help out.
3. I'm not a trainer. Ghost (head trainer) and I have talked, and I do spend alot of time in the TA trying to help out (per him) but it's not "official". I do what I do simply because I want to give back.
4. I just dueled Shane the other day. He was in the DA fighting a guy, and the pilot he was ftn wasn't understanding what Shane was telling him re. merges, ACM etc. So I let the guy .join me as Shane and I fought, so he could "see" how to merge, do scissors etc. He then .joined shane, for the reverse perspective. Shane DID win almost all the fights. He's an excellent pilot (top 2-3 in the game in the DA IMHO). BUT all the fights were very close, and pretty drawn out. He (or myself) never won a fight quick. After we were done I asked Shane to critique me and give me advice on how to improve. He had none. He said he was just a tiny better at riding the edge than I was. to Shane. He's mouthy in the MA, but will do backflips for you to help train you. So no...Shane doesn't really have anything to teach me. I just need to spend more time in the DA.
Elfie, t/y for having my back, and understanding what I was doing.
JensK, I don't recall a tift btween us, but anything is possible. Oh I remember now. Somehow you tried to paint some picture of me bullying you, which was (is) laughable. If you got it, post a link to THAT thread so I can re-read it. Prob. good for a chuckle or 3.
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JensK, I don't recall a tift btween us, but anything is possible. Oh I remember now. Somehow you tried to paint some picture of me bullying you, which was (is) laughable. If you got it, post a link to THAT thread so I can re-read it. Prob. good for a chuckle or 3.
I dont think so, I usually keep away from personal accusations
on a public bbs and I dont recall mentioning any of some sort
bullying either. Sounds like you act much on impuls, Lute.
I also do not think there has ever been any friction between us
when I was JensK. I do remember you wanting to teach me a lot
of things when I was Fencer though. And not very useful things;
like -"shut up noob", -"learn some skill noob" etc...
Well I can agree on that Robs first reply could use some afterthought too. If not a lot.
Ok, you and Rob were having a personal vendetta. Thats hard to
tell from what you and Rob writes in this thread. Why dont you
keep it to yourselves and sort it out by your own and not use this
thread to justify yourselves.
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Originally posted by flyingaround
Ok...a few things to clear up here.
1. This Goon flying thing goes back to us both being online in the MA, and his whining for 10+min on country channel about how much "we" all suck because "we" couldn't protect him. I wasn't jumping out fresh here, there is a history to this convo, and my sarcastic 1st sentence wasn't based purely on his stats, but more so his actions/words in the MA.
2. Yes I was somewhat being a smart arse in my 1st sentence. It was more in reply to his rude/insulting rants on country channel in the MA,. He went on and on and on about how much everyone sux. because a 262 got his goon. I for one can't think of a single way to prevent a 262 from killing a goon. You can't protect from that. You CAN try and be sneaky, and avoid the goon hunters. Flying behind a mission in a goon, taking an obvious route to a field = cannon fodder for a 262 driver. Bottom line. But that wasn't the 1st RobMo rant i've been party to. He is know to be quite the character in the MA, and spews rude things to his fellow knits all the time.
3. I WAS trying to help. Even when i'm being sarcastic in my post, you will almost always see that I ALSO am offering help, and/or advice. I DO only have his stats to go on (and what i've seen when we've flown 2gether in the MA), and that is enough for me to get at least a rough understanding of how he fly's, and what "stage" of his flying carrer he is in. (last tour) 113 fighter sorties, with 83 deaths vs. 18 kills can tell you a wee bit re. skill. Everybody is new at one time. I don't hold his "skill" level against him, just his people skills. I for one will respond to most jerks with sarcasm, even as I try and help them. Spew a bunch o' crazy drivel, and that colors my opinion. No avoiding that. But I also am quick to forgive, and try my best to help out.
3. I'm not a trainer. Ghost (head trainer) and I have talked, and I do spend alot of time in the TA trying to help out (per him) but it's not "official". I do what I do simply because I want to give back.
4. I just dueled Shane the other day. He was in the DA fighting a guy, and the pilot he was ftn wasn't understanding what Shane was telling him re. merges, ACM etc. So I let the guy .join me as Shane and I fought, so he could "see" how to merge, do scissors etc. He then .joined shane, for the reverse perspective. Shane DID win almost all the fights. He's an excellent pilot (top 2-3 in the game in the DA IMHO). BUT all the fights were very close, and pretty drawn out. He (or myself) never won a fight quick. After we were done I asked Shane to critique me and give me advice on how to improve. He had none. He said he was just a tiny better at riding the edge than I was. to Shane. He's mouthy in the MA, but will do backflips for you to help train you. So no...Shane doesn't really have anything to teach me. I just need to spend more time in the DA.
Elfie, t/y for having my back, and understanding what I was doing.
JensK, I don't recall a tift btween us, but anything is possible. Oh I remember now. Somehow you tried to paint some picture of me bullying you, which was (is) laughable. If you got it, post a link to THAT thread so I can re-read it. Prob. good for a chuckle or 3.
Lute,
1st. I asked you to leave well enough alone!
2nd. Does this look like the M A?
3rd. I think you've got me mistaken with 68ballS or GUNS06, or someone else, I don't whine on or off the VOX, COUNTRY, or ch200! I may get P O'd and voice my anger, but I don't believe I ever rattled your cage! You started this with your "smart arse" comments about my honest opinion. So STFU already!
OBTW,
4th. If you feel that you can't learn anything from anybody, that just shows your own shortsidedness, and unwillingness to learn (and your arrogance)! So thus endith the lesson for today, Mr. Professor.
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Originally posted by JensK
I dont think so, I usually keep away from personal accusations
on a public bbs and I dont recall mentioning any of some sort
bullying either. Sounds like you act much on impuls, Lute.
I also do not think there has ever been any friction between us
when I was JensK. I do remember you wanting to teach me a lot
of things when I was Fencer though. And not very useful things;
like -"shut up noob", -"learn some skill noob" etc...
Well I can agree on that Robs first reply could use some afterthought too. If not a lot.
Ok, you and Rob were having a personal vendetta. Thats hard to
tell from what you and Rob writes in this thread. Why dont you
keep it to yourselves and sort it out by your own and not use this
thread to justify yourselves.
I must be mistaken then re. who I thought you were/are. BUT you can not find me anyone that can say I have ever said "shut up noob". You would find it most difficult to find anyone that has been told (by me) to "learn some skill noob". I just don't do that. Never have, doubt I will. I can count those kind of remarks on one hand that I have every typed/said while flying in my 2yrs. (if that many). I HAVE said things to people in the MA to get 'em to duel me. I might question their skill lvl and abilities, but never w/ someone new, or with a high rank (i.e. 2000 rank), and those that I DO say such things to are usually top 100 pilots. IF you ranked in the top 100 (ish), but run from every fight, or face shoot exclusivly, expect me to mention it.
I just have not, nor will, ever say such things to new pilots.
RobMo... I'm done. Nice personal attack and insults. Go you.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671723650/qid=1097057823/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_2_1/102-9747219-3520101
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Agflit22,
You said "a base can be taken by 4 or 5 pilots in 1 to 2 passes" by "taken" you mean captured, correct? I'm just saying Agflit22 that if you only have 5 aircraft and one of them is a C47's and the base you are attempting to capture starts upping fighters as soon as it starts to blink. I think it unlikely that you are going to capture it with 4 armed aircraft and a goon even if you get all your primary targets on your first pass( VH and FH's Field ack at both the airfield and town).
I'm sure you are correct, if no one ups to defend the base, you can take it with a few airplans. I'm pretty sure that everyone here has experienced that at one time or another. But with the short down times at the town in AHII and the more accurate AAA. If only a few fighters up when the base starts to blink, they can do a pretty good job of holding off 4 attackers with one goon in tow.
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Originally posted by Traveler
Agflit22,
You said "a base can be taken by 4 or 5 pilots in 1 to 2 passes" by "taken" you mean captured, correct? I'm just saying Agflit22 that if you only have 5 aircraft and one of them is a C47's and the base you are attempting to capture starts upping fighters as soon as it starts to blink. I think it unlikely that you are going to capture it with 4 armed aircraft and a goon even if you get all your primary targets on your first pass( VH and FH's Field ack at both the airfield and town).
I'm sure you are correct, if no one ups to defend the base, you can take it with a few airplans. I'm pretty sure that everyone here has experienced that at one time or another. But with the short down times at the town in AHII and the more accurate AAA. If only a few fighters up when the base starts to blink, they can do a pretty good job of holding off 4 attackers with one goon in tow.
I dont beleive 4-5 planes would have enough ord to take down the VH, All the FH, and the town.
What you would have to do is use all ord on town and use 1-2 planes after they have dropped on the town to kill ack and keep feild supressed while the other planes finish off the town and drop troops.
Its possible but very tough and you would only get 1 shot at it so everything would have to be perfect
This would all have to happen very fast and have to be an NOE raid against an unsuspecting feild. and before any sort of plane defence started upping in any numbers.
1 or 2 planes can hold a base at bay for maybe a couple min but only if limited planes started upping.
This type of attact I think if it worked at all woud only work against a small feild where there are a limited amount of runways to choose from.
But everything would have to be perfect and would have to be done VERY fast
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"Having jumped from C-130s many times, I can tell you that anything but level flight makes exiting the aircraft almost impossible and strings out your chalk over a much greater distance.
Putting troops out during a loop? No way.
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Hmmm absolutely true;... however
keep in mind this is a game!
There is no way a B-17 is going to fly 100 feet off the ground strafing ack and gv's
or low over the base strafing aircraft taking off either... but guess what... it is done in here by a few, which I call totally un-kool.
Besides I did not say I deployed troops during a loop.
I am high speed low level pull up as I get to the map room.. going verticle ..
and immediately launch troops.. troops are out... boom.. straight dow to the map room. No running.. no stoppig to tie their shoelaces.. not packin up the chute.. just into the map room.
My troops have this down pat.