Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: WhiteHawk on October 02, 2004, 08:01:41 AM
-
Lookout for Russia to go on the offensive. Putin Just reserved the right to go into whatever country necessary to 'pre empt' another terrorist strike.
Wow, he couldve very easily staged that thing just to give him that blanket coverage to break any and all international laws. I demand a trial!!!!!!!!!
Why would the chechens do something like that? They are bleeding russia to death using similar tactics that are being employed in Iraq? How do we really know this ugly, dirty, smelly, bearded terrorist was responsible? Oh yea, we are told he claimed responsibility. What an idiot.
Sound familiar? Hold on to your arses, its gonna be along one.
-
Oh my - the 911 government conspicary lunatics have gone to russia now...
Yes Putin killed those kids in Beslan - he orchestated this fake hostage crisis, he also bombed the two russian airliners, he also did the subway bombings and of course the riussians staged the recent theater hostage crisis too... You see the people there were gassed because they recoignized the hostyage takers to be russian special forces and not chechen islamic terrorists..
And of course, by your last refernce, Al Qaeda and Bin Laden had nothing to do with 911.
Thank you for uncovuing the truth, all the terrorism doesnt exist and its all fdaked by our governments.
BTW did you know the Holocaust of WW2 was staged by the world jewish bankers kabal and their lackeys in the western governments? They learned how to do this by faking the invasion of Poland in 1939 too, just to provoke Hitler into accepting rsponsibilty for the war...
And hey continue to do it all today, the evil bastards. Now instead of nazis they target poor little islamic groups like Al Qaeda or the Chechen terror gangs...
:rolleyes:
-
Here we go again.
The 9/11 attacks were done by Saudis, not Iraqis....
-
I thought whitehawk was being sarcastic?
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Oh my - the 911 government conspicary lunatics have gone to russia now...
..
And of course, by your last refernce, Al Qaeda and Bin Laden had nothing to do with 911.
:rolleyes:
Ummm, that is not my last reference. I just believe it to be my patriotic duty to seek the truth, which requires the presentation of eveidnce on both sides. This is the American justice system that was engineered by our founding fathers. I get suspicious when the justice system is bypassed, which it was for 911.
Not only the US justice system, but that of the world.
I would hide my head in shame as a commie stooge if I believed the 'official story' before I beleive my own eyes.
I can certainly understand anyone who refuses to investigate the eveidence because if the 'official story' is not true, then what is the truth? Are we living in a haunted house?
Since you are so eager to give me my opininion in your quote above, I will assume you are asking me if that is my opinion.
The answer is 'no'. I believe Bin Laden was a major factor in the attacks of 911. But, the eveidence is overwhelming, that he had help. The question is, from who?
Let me ask you this, Grun, assume that your favorite newsman broke a story that the CIA has uncovered evidence of inside help for the 911 attacks. Would you want to know who helped?
-
Originally posted by ra
I thought whitehawk was being sarcastic?
either that or he needs to talk to his supplier. That stuff is something special.
-
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
How do we really know this ugly, dirty, smelly, bearded terrorist was responsible? Oh yea, we are told he claimed responsibility. What an idiot.
Sound familiar?
No way were you making a reference to bin laden and 911...
Why do you make lunatic satements like this and then flinch when somebody calls you on it?
-
Whitehawk you are in error imagining that the fundementals of our justice system should be applied to national security and warfare. Law enforcement is reactionary, police can only act on criminals after the crime has been commited.
A judicial system's purpose is mainly concerned with justice, punishment, or vengance if you like.
National secuirity forces are in the buisiness of keeping us safe. Logically, if they wait untill we are attacked they are not doing their job. By definition defence and security forces are proactive, not reactive.
-
Originally posted by Suave
Whitehawk you are in error imagining that the fundementals of our justice system should be applied to national security and warfare. Law enforcement is reactionary, police can only act on criminals after the crime has been commited.
A judicial system's purpose is mainly concerned with justice, punishment, or vengance if you like.
National secuirity forces are in the buisiness of keeping us safe. Logically, if they wait untill we are attacked they are not doing their job. By definition defence and security forces are proactive, not reactive.
Finally someone is able to post a refreshing logical post, thank you suave.
-
Originally posted by Suave
Whitehawk you are in error imagining that the fundementals of our justice system should be applied to national security and warfare. Law enforcement is reactionary, police can only act on criminals after the crime has been commited.
A judicial system's purpose is mainly concerned with justice, punishment, or vengance if you like.
National secuirity forces are in the buisiness of keeping us safe. Logically, if they wait untill we are attacked they are not doing their job. By definition defence and security forces are proactive, not reactive.
In response to your top paragraph, a number of colmbine style school massacres were thwarted before children died. A proactive approach by the police prevented the crime, this is niether nat'l security or warfare. So , although elequintly written, your top paragraph is false.
Your middle paragraph is absolutely correct. And this is where i part ways the majority of folks here. I believe it is important to punish the guilty. Guilty is a legal term, it requires a 'verdict', which requires presented evidence, both prosecutory and defensive. This is necessary to prevent 'frame ups'. the procedure here, which has been legislated away by the patriot act in some situations, is called a trial. We can spend countless billions on 2 wars, but we cant have a trial to legitimaize them?
Your last paragraph is obvious. Get them before they get us. It also forces thier hands into getting us before we get them.
-
There you go talking about "frame-ups" again... :(
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
No way were you making a reference to bin laden and 911...
Why do you make lunatic satements like this and then flinch when somebody calls you on it?
Not sure what you are saying here grun.
I am simply saying, Russia has now empowered itself to invade any country it sees fit, wtihout any aprroval of the UN. This is a mammoth bypass of international laws. These new rules are brought about by a commando raid by a chechyan terror group on a group of schoolchildren. How can u be so sure that the russians are telling us the truth? I am not trying to insult you, I just cannot understand how you can just gobble up every offcial story, so long as they say, 'bad terorist did it'?
-
And why should anybody gobble up :) your story that the Russian govt faked it?
Especially when the main chechen terrorist leader freely admitted to ordering the attack? You know why? Because he's a terrorist, and thats what he does. He terrorizes people by taking hostages and blowing stuff up. Thats what the chechens have been doing since the mid 1990s... Thats pefectly simple and cklear..
Yet you expect us to give any credibility to your extreme Putin did it story.. So whats your evidence that Putin did it? Show us.. Please show us...
I can just come here and say that space aliens commited the beslan attack to hide abductions of children and that they are working for putin to give him authority to strike anyywhere.
Thats no less preposterous an argument as yours and supported by just as much evidence...
-
Stinky bait.
-
I agree with Putins declaration. Whatever it takes to stop terrorism is fine by me and all the UN weenies can cry 10 rivers when he carries out a preemptive strike.
-
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
I am simply saying, Russia has now empowered itself to invade any country it sees fit, wtihout any aprroval of the UN. This is a mammoth bypass of international laws. These new rules are brought about by a commando raid by a chechyan terror group on a group of schoolchildren.
What you quote is just a silly statement of a General Staff official. Many officials already stated that he "exaggerated" a little.
As for me - if our government will try to employ our Armed Forces against some distant countries - I'll go out to the streets protesting, even when I know it will be useless and dangerous.
What I see now is that our Armed Forces probably need to use power against direct invasions from Georgia that openly hosts terrorists and threatens to kill Russian citizens. Georgian lunatic president is so high with American political assistance that he declares he will order to sink ships with Russian tourists in Abkhazia.
Russian Army must do it's best to protect Russian citizens, even those who live in Abkhazia and South Osetia. 70-90% of population there have Russian passports. And army should burn terrorist nests in Georgia with napalm, and spit on "national independance" of this terrorist-supporting US ally. We have all rights to defend from invasion. They come with a sword.
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
How can u be so sure that the russians are telling us the truth? I am not trying to insult you, I just cannot understand how you can just gobble up every offcial story, so long as they say, 'bad terorist did it'?
Why should Russians tell you lies? In 1944 the Chechen problem was solved in 24 hours. Don't you think that this can't be repeated? The problem is that some powers including some political groups in Russia and abroad need this war. This creatures deserve elimination even more then that bearded illiterate Chechen highlanders...
-
Originally posted by Boroda
blah blah blah... America's fault... blah blah blah...
-
????
Mr. Rumsfeld stated that "US will take all nessesary measures to protect Georgia from any agressor" while Russia was insisting on removing terrorist bases from Pankisi Gorge.
Mr. Saakashvili stated that Georgian "navy" will sink all vessels with "so-called Russian tourists" on board in Abkhazian waters while he was in the US on official visit. Must be nice to greet and shake hands with a loony who orders sinking civilian ships with tourists aboard. :rolleyes:
It's not "america's fault". It's a well-known Western policy of double-standards. Some terrorists are more equal then others and deserve political asylum.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
It's a well-known Western policy of double-standards.
Careful there Boroda. "Western" is a very general term. ;)
-
Cry me a river Boroda..
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Careful there Boroda. "Western" is a very general term. ;)
Sorry.
So far Western press and officials almost unanimously blame Russia for "human rights violations" against poor Chechen population. Chechens are "freedom fighters opressed by evil Russians" while their crimes are completely unknown, and noone knows about genocide they practiced since 1991...
BTW, isn't your country a NATO member? :rolleyes: Standard politics: those who fight Russians are NATO friends :(
-
Originally posted by Boroda
BTW, isn't your country a NATO member? :rolleyes: Standard politics: those who fight Russians are NATO friends :(
Yes, Norway is a member of NATO
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Yes, Norway is a member of NATO
Unfortunately, some things never change. NATO is still aimed at Russia, moves towards it's borders and there is nothing we, ordinary people, can do about it. Now NATO has airbases in fascist Baltic states, and Leningrad (SPb) is inside NATO tactical aviation range :(
For 15 years USSR/Russia is eager for peace and cooperation, while gentlemen from Brussels are still thinking of us as of targets :(
-
Oh yes we just wanna blow up russia.. Not a day goes by that the US president and his counterparts in western europe arent preoccupied with their schemes against the motherland..
:rolleyes:
-
Is that how the average Russian still feels Boroda?
-
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
In response to your top paragraph, a number of colmbine style school massacres were thwarted before children died. A proactive approach by the police prevented the crime, this is niether nat'l security or warfare. So , although elequintly written, your top paragraph is false.
Your middle paragraph is absolutely correct. And this is where i part ways the majority of folks here. I believe it is important to punish the guilty. Guilty is a legal term, it requires a 'verdict', which requires presented evidence, both prosecutory and defensive. This is necessary to prevent 'frame ups'. the procedure here, which has been legislated away by the patriot act in some situations, is called a trial. We can spend countless billions on 2 wars, but we cant have a trial to legitimaize them?
Your last paragraph is obvious. Get them before they get us. It also forces thier hands into getting us before we get them.
If colombine style attacks were thwarted it does not invalidate what I said in the first paragraph. If you believe it does then there's a falacy in your logic. Can anybody tell me what it its called? Anybody.. anybody?
As far as my second paragraph, warfare should NEVER be undertaken for such things as petty as revenge or judicial punishment, and as far as I can recall the last time the US military was involved in anything remotely related to retribution, as opposed to prevention, was WWI. Which some will say was a war started by a country avenging an assisination. Of course I believe that opinion to be incorrect, but that's another topic.
Again, trying to attribute the rule of law to war is pointless and illogical. War is beyond law, war is murder. War starts where law ends. The only law that wont hinder us when protecting ourself from the antisocial inhumans is the law of the jungle. Trying to dress up the monster of war in the trappings of legality or judicial process is sick.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Is that how the average Russian still feels Boroda?
Average Russian is too busy surviving.
Russians who have understanding of current international situation are surprised.
Most of the Russians understood that Soviet propaganda was right and NATO is our enemy in 1999 when they raped Yugoslavia supporting Moslim terrorists.
Since late 80s we were too happy thinking that West wants to help us.
I read left-radical newspapers, listen to right-wing liberal radio station (echo.msk.ru) and watch national TV channels. And for most of the people here NATO is a deadly enemy since 1999.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Is that how the average Russian still feels Boroda?
Thankfully no, russians, in my experience, in general are very rational and can smell BS from a week away. If you think Boroda's views are representative of average russians you should talk to more russians, and former soviets.
-
Oh the poor raping and pillaging genocidal Serbs as the victim in yet another Boroda post... Oh no..
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Oh the poor raping and pillaging genocidal Serbs as the victim in yet another Boroda post... Oh no..
Genocide accusations were removed from Miloshevich's "case".
I just want to show you the point when most of the Russians suddenly undrstood that the former enemy still remains the enemy. And it's not my personal distorted view. 12 rows of traffic on Garden Ring passing by American embasy were pressing on the horn button....
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Most of the Russians understood that Soviet propaganda was right and NATO is our enemy in 1999 when they raped Yugoslavia supporting Moslim terrorists.
Since late 80s we were too happy thinking that West wants to help us.
I read left-radical newspapers, listen to right-wing liberal radio station (echo.msk.ru) and watch national TV channels. And for most of the people here NATO is a deadly enemy since 1999.
Im _very_ suprised Boroda. NOBODY here feels that russia is an enemy at all. Either you are trolling, or you are fed some seriously flawed propaganda for some reason. I have had very high thoughts of you before Boroda, but this is just abit rich and i _really_ hope you are joking.
-
Well then it certainly diddnt happend and for example then the the 8,000 people who dissapeared in srebrenica after bording serb busses all happily went on to disneyland.. Thasnk goodness!
-
He isbnt joking Nilisen, its the way he really feels or at least ther way he has been posting consistently.
Personally I think its just his way of dealing with the fact that the west doesnt care any more about russia like it used to about the old communist USSR... Basically the USA and russuia are no longer equals and russia is not all that important to the world any more. I think that hurts him somehow..
-
Originally posted by Boroda
fascist Baltic states
Oh they are fascist? I guess fascism is just fine then, these coutries have a real democracy and a blooming economy. Are you just a little jealous?
-
go ask the doc for meds to help with ur paranoia whawk
-
Only one thing.....
If we (I mean Russia) will found a terrorist base in England, for example..... According to our president, we should immediatly strike it. What will say Tony Blair about it.... I mean, how will change his opinion to Iraq and international law this case?
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Im _very_ suprised Boroda. NOBODY here feels that russia is an enemy at all. Either you are trolling, or you are fed some seriously flawed propaganda for some reason. I have had very high thoughts of you before Boroda, but this is just abit rich and i _really_ hope you are joking.
Nobody here thinks it is either, but comments like Boroda's make me wonder about them.. I googled his Comments on Georgia and cant fine any "serious" articles to support his "US will take all nessesary measures to protect Georgia from any agressor"
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Well then it certainly diddnt happend and for example then the the 8,000 people who dissapeared in srebrenica after bording serb busses all happily went on to disneyland.. Thasnk goodness!
Sad time....
-
I wouldn't expect any parent whos children had been slaughtered in a school by designer terrorists to sit by and let it happen again... Calling it a russian government conspiracy just ignores all common sense and documented video. But if it makes you happy dreaming up conspiracies I hardly see how that would hurt anyone but yourself, entertain us! Please..
IKON
-
Is there a stupid thread contest going on? With prizes or something?
-
I just believe it to be my patriotic duty to seek the truth, which requires the presentation of eveidnce on both sides
So if Russia, China, Iran, N. Korea, etc was to launch a nuke at us, do you believe there should be a trial before we retaliate? Sometimes you just can't wait for 2yrs or more in trial to respond to an incident of this scale.
-
I say let the UN handle this, Russia need not even be bothered with it.
OK with you Borada?:)
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Hmm ... Saturday ... Me thinks Boroda should not mix BBS and vodka so much.
What vodka do you recommend BTW... Have been flip floping and am bored of the usual vodka...
-
You can find belvedere at most liquor stores. That's prolly the best vodka that you will be able to find at stores.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Im _very_ suprised Boroda. NOBODY here feels that russia is an enemy at all. Either you are trolling, or you are fed some seriously flawed propaganda for some reason. I have had very high thoughts of you before Boroda, but this is just abit rich and i _really_ hope you are joking.
I don't think Norway is an enemy. Nor do most of the Russians, except some commie loonies.
Norway is in fact helping a lot to our Northern regions. AFAIK your country sponsors many Arctic research institutes. OTOH we have (or had?) Norvegian "observers" abroad our fishing fleet, who get more money then the whole crews, at least it's what I have heard 10 years ago, last time I was in Murmansk and on board of Russian seiner...
NATO is officially our "friend" now, but then please explain me why do they need air-force bases in Pribaltika, and why they need long-range radar facilities that control most of the North-West Russia airspace...? Now American forces are withdrawn from Germany towards our borders to Poland and Baltic states. Must be a sign of peacefull intentions? :rolleyes:
-
Yes Boroda we are invading next week. Take this as a friendly warning and plese seek shelter!
-
Originally posted by Krusher
Nobody here thinks it is either, but comments like Boroda's make me wonder about them.. I googled his Comments on Georgia and cant fine any "serious" articles to support his "US will take all nessesary measures to protect Georgia from any agressor"
Unfortunately I didn't find any info on this in Western press. Rumsfeld's statements were so stupid that our Foreign Affairs ministry have sent a note to the US, saying that "we hope mr. Rumsfeld is not authorised to make such statements offically".
Another interesting fact: US sent weapons, advisors and instructors to teach Georgian armed forces, and the units trained and armed by Americans are now located against South Osetia...
Why does America need this? Supporting a regime that openly hosts terrorists and even uses Chechen gangs in South Osetia IMHO contradicts with the whole concept of "war on terrorism" :(
We should be friends, and such an alliance can be very effective, for mutual benefit, but some forces act against it :( All we need now is some signs of good will, not only usual bla-bla about "war on terror". You have to understand that when US gives political asylum to Chechen terrorists and US Department of State gives them payed jobs - it's hard to appreciate :(
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes Boroda we are invading next week. Take this as a friendly warning and plese seek shelter!
What you'll say if Russia will send troops and planes to Cuba, build long-range radars there and "patrol Cuban and neighbouring airspace" with attack planes?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
I don't think Norway is an enemy. Nor do most of the Russians, except some commie loonies.
Norway is in fact helping a lot to our Northern regions. AFAIK your country sponsors many Arctic research institutes. OTOH we have (or had?) Norvegian "observers" abroad our fishing fleet, who get more money then the whole crews, at least it's what I have heard 10 years ago, last time I was in Murmansk and on board of Russian seiner...
NATO is officially our "friend" now, but then please explain me why do they need air-force bases in Pribaltika, and why they need long-range radar facilities that control most of the North-West Russia airspace...? Now American forces are withdrawn from Germany towards our borders to Poland and Baltic states. Must be a sign of peacefull intentions? :rolleyes:
Good.
Inspectors onboard russain fishing boats? Yes, the coastguard boards ships of all nationalities that ish in norwegian waters and check that they report correct ammounts and size of fish with respect to the quotas. There are no norwegians permamently onboard russian fishing boats. Im not suprised if the officers makes more money then the entire crew tho. The conscripts however does not.
I know that there has been some controversy over one of the radars we have up north (Globus II), but the russians now know that it is only there to track space objects and cant be used to track airplanes very far into russia (atleast not more than the "regular" airforce early warning radars. There are also russian airsearch radars on the Kola pennsula that can track planes deep into norwegian airspace.
(http://www.mil.no/multimedia/archive/00000/gii_ny_radom_320a.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Boroda
What you'll say if Russia will send troops and planes to Cuba, build long-range radars there and "patrol Cuban and neighbouring airspace" with attack planes?
I'd say
"yall watch out for them hurricanes now, ya hear"
Oh and you can stay in Miami if ya like there are some great night spots there you would enjoy.
I don't consider Russia anything other then a friend.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
Inspectors onboard russain fishing boats? Yes, the coastguard boards ships of all nationalities that ish in norwegian waters and check that they report correct ammounts and size of fish with respect to the quotas. There are no norwegians permamently onboard russian fishing boats. Im not suprised if the officers makes more money then the entire crew tho. The conscripts however does not.
In 1994 the seiner officer I talked to said they had Norwegian inspectors on board who watch for quotas, and they get $200 daily, more then the whole crew, and don't participate in routine work when even a captain is employed...
"I sell it for the same price I bought it" - I heard it and don't have any proof except the words of that seaman.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
In 1994 the seiner officer I talked to said they had Norwegian inspectors on board who watch for quotas, and they get $200 daily, more then the whole crew, and don't participate in routine work when even a captain is employed...
"I sell it for the same price I bought it" - I heard it and don't have any proof except the words of that seaman.
Yes, they board and inspect. They don't stay onboard the entire time the fishing ship is at sea. 200$ a day for an officer in the coastguard sounds abit much, but that ofcouse depends on the exchange rate at the time. If the dollar is cheap vs norwegian currency and expensive vs russian rubles then it could be correct.
-edit- I made just under 75000$ one of the years i was in the navy so its sounds about right.