Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: artik on October 02, 2004, 11:37:49 AM
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Hi Pyro,
There air-to-air rockets at LW fighters.
However no one knows how to use. The main problem is lack of relevant data.
Following data is requred to have some sucess with these rockets.
[list=1]
- Fuse time - how much time passes before the rocket explodes
- What is the rocket speed (with engine on)
- How fast does the speed of the rocket drops after the egine stops to burn
- What distance from bomber should the rocket when it explodes in order to hit it (approximate for B-17 or Lanc formation) or what is the range of damage for them
If this information was posted before can you give some links (hadn't found at forum)
Thanks
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And can you make the tube jettisonable as they were in service.
Crumpp
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I heard Pyro doesnt want to make the tubes jettisonable on purpose.
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Why?
Each country had their advantages and disadvantages. RAF, USSR, and US had many small rockets with mounts that provided varying amounts of drag.
WGr. 21's pack lots of punch but are extremely inaccurate. Additionally while lugging them to target you take a huge drag penalty.
If you take the rockets you should try and land with the tubes. They were jettisonable but not disposable. However if you get jumped then you should have the option of jettisoning the tubes at a large point expense to your attack points/perk points.
Crumpp
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I'm under the impression that they don't explode at all..
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There was a good reason.
He never commented on .fusetime type commands though.
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Originally posted by mora
I'm under the impression that they don't explode at all..
I've never been able to hit or damage any airborne target with them, but they explode.
I've found these rockets only useful against ground structures.
Historically they explode on impact or after preset time interval. The rockets were aimed using the Revi sight as they had similar trajectory to the Mk108 rounds.
In Fw190s, both rockets were fired at the same time, you cant fire only one.
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I would like to know how is currently modeled the blast radius of the 82 lb warhead. Visually it seems pretty the same as CV 5.5" shells explosions.
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Originally posted by moot
There was a good reason.
He never commented on .fusetime type commands though.
IS THERE SUCH COMMAND :eek:
Pyro!!!!
This information shouldn't be classified!
We should be able to use Wr 21 Rockets
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Also the launchers should have significant elevation to give the rockets a ballistic trajectory. They were aimed using the Revi and when the B-17's wings matched up with a particular set of marks on the Revi (I forget which ones) you match speed and fire. The rockets would then arc up and come down close to the target bomber and detonate by timer.
The way they are now you have to aim high above the target ... of course now they can be used against ground targets which would be difficult if the launchers were elevated.
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Bah, screw ground targets, if you want to ground pound use bombs/cannon/standard rockets
I'd LOVE to have the upward angle (and in fact I think they are modeled -- visually modeled, that is -- angled up. If you look at real pictures they were a good 10-15 degrees tilted up (if not more!).
I'd LOVE to have them fire ballistically (hell, all guns currently do, the 21 should too!!)
Maybe then people would stop asking for the uber rockets for the 262, if these ones worked.
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When I did some campagining on this subject a long time ago I found that fuse in question would point detonate, even if set to burst on a timer. Now near as I can tell in AH this does not hapen.
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I use these rockets quite often.
If you are going the same speed as your target then you should fire them at 1.0K out if you are much faster 1.5k
I'm not sure of there hitting power but I have killed formations of B17s with 2 rockets.
And no they can't be used agenst ground targets.
As for the high aiming It takes tons of practis, try useing the .target command
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same here I took out a whole formation of lancasters with 2 rockets. Fire them near a fighter and they explode into puffy ack puff things lol
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I think the problem, or I preceave the problem to be this, is that they cant model the rocket to point detonate as well as time detonate, as they could historicaly. If I recal corectly the fuse had a selector on it. On the ground the ordance man would select either point detonation or timed, howeaver again if i am remembering corectly the rocket if set to go of on timed would still point detonate if it hit priour to the timer going off. These rockets were used in the air to ground role.
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Originally posted by artik
Hi Pyro,
There air-to-air rockets at LW fighters.
However no one knows how to use. The main problem is lack of relevant data.
Following data is requred to have some sucess with these rockets.
[list=1]
- Fuse time - how much time passes before the rocket explodes
- What is the rocket speed (with engine on)
- How fast does the speed of the rocket drops after the egine stops to burn
- What distance from bomber should the rocket when it explodes in order to hit it (approximate for B-17 or Lanc formation) or what is the range of damage for them
If this information was posted before can you give some links (hadn't found at forum)
Thanks
I find this one VERY good thread!
It was not long ago that I discovered we had air to air missiles!
This may not sound strange, but it does when I say I've been flying for over 5 years!
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Frank, it's not an uncommon reaction you've had. Most people don't realize they are air-to-air because they suck badly at anything, probably due to their flat trajectory. I consider it an oversight, but meh, it's been this way for 5 years. I guess nobody cares or gives a damn if they get fixed to actually be usable :rofl
A) they don't work well, leads to B) nobody uses them, leads to C) nobody knows they exist.
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Originally posted by frank3
I find this one VERY good thread!
It was not long ago that I discovered we had air to air missiles!
This may not sound strange, but it does when I say I've been flying for over 5 years!
1st - not missiles - rockets - missiles are guided once.
2nd - yes but it is very hard to train with them - you have only 2 in 190/109 and 4 in 110.
I know that the most sucesseful rockets where the rockets 262s had used they had 50 rockets that were fired in once. The pilots had told when the formation of 262 had fired all the rockets about 10 B-17 had exploded even no one could tell how many kills each one get.
Personaly I want to find out how to use them because:
I hate buffs
I want to find better way to deal with B-17s then with 20/30mm guns. Most of time I get killed so......
So HTC
PLEASE
post information about the fuses of these rockets and some information about rockets speed.
Thanks
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They are slanted and very effective, assuming proper motorneuron coordination.
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my tests show the fuse is about 4 - 5 seconds
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Originally posted by artik
Hi Pyro,
There air-to-air rockets at LW fighters.
However no one knows how to use. The main problem is lack of relevant data.
Following data is requred to have some sucess with these rockets.
[list=1]
- Fuse time - how much time passes before the rocket explodes
- What is the rocket speed (with engine on)
- How fast does the speed of the rocket drops after the egine stops to burn
- What distance from bomber should the rocket when it explodes in order to hit it (approximate for B-17 or Lanc formation) or what is the range of damage for them
Thanks
1- The fuse detonates after 5.25 seconds. Under normal launch conditions I think that will put the detonation about 1100 yards in front of you.
2- Looks like the speed peaks around 750 fps when the motor burns out.
3- I don't know without calculating it out and a precise answer would require a launch speed, altitude, and angle. But I will say that it's an insignificant factor given the projectile weight, it's short life span, and it's velocity.
4- Well ideally, it would hit it. Max damage range is 150 feet and the max effective range is probably half of that.
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How about the elevation of the launchers, will they be included?
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Originally posted by Pyro
1- The fuse detonates after 5.25 seconds. Under normal launch conditions I think that will put the detonation about 1100 yards in front of you.
2- Looks like the speed peaks around 750 fps when the motor burns out.
3- I don't know without calculating it out and a precise answer would require a launch speed, altitude, and angle. But I will say that it's an insignificant factor given the projectile weight, it's short life span, and it's velocity.
4- Well ideally, it would hit it. Max damage range is 150 feet and the max effective range is probably half of that.
Thanks a lot,
Very usefull information!!!
:aok
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Ok lets start calculations:
Free fall of object in T seconds is 0.5*g*T^2
0.5*10*5.25^2 ~ 140 meters
1100 yards ~ 1000 meters
tan(angle)=140/1000 ---> angle = 8 degrees.
Great.....
anybody nows what is the angle of view of the circle for default AH gunsite for 109/190.
If I not mistake the angle from the center is about 7-8 degrees?
That is the information I need...
Of corse the calculations are approximate but...... it is the point to start.
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GS, aren't the tubes already inclined?
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Yes, but the last time I checked when you fire the rockets they go straight (then down).
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artik
you might want to look at this thread
http://pub157.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm27.showMessageRange?topicID=3.topic&start=1&stop=20
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Originally posted by GScholz
Yes, but the last time I checked when you fire the rockets they go straight (then down).
yes they do go down quite a bit. I usually fire from about 500 ft above as they do not have a parabolic trajectory. It's pretty difficult to hit stuff with them.
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I don't know if anyone already said this: but I thought you have to fire the rockets from about 1.2k away.
Either this or 1.0k
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Would it be possible to bring up the "target" inflight and see where the rockets hit it at different ranges to help estimate the arc?
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Originally posted by Pyro
1- The fuse detonates after 5.25 seconds. Under normal launch conditions I think that will put the detonation about 1100 yards in front of you.
2- Looks like the speed peaks around 750 fps when the motor burns out.
Pyro, may be you want to revise these numbers.
Peak speed should be about 1050 fps after 1.4 seconds from launch, reaching 1100 yards in 3.7 seconds. Target should be placed 2 degrees below Revi center to compensate 25 feet drop at 1100 yards.
I assume these numbers does not consider the speeds of the launching plane/target.
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YOu mean those things actually work? I was gonna write these up as a bug.
From what I noticed is when I use them offline they due indeed make a black puff explosion. And damaged a few drones with them. But I can never get them to work online. No puffy cloud, nothing, nadda. Just the white trail of smoke it makes leaving the aircraft. And the additional drag.
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In 2 years, firing from 6 or 12 I have yet to do any damage to a buff. Last month I fired 1 at a B17 formation from their 3 oclock. Got my first kill. lol
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OK, I gotta try this:p
I'm a sucker for buffs and frequently die because of it. If these things actually work, I may quit flying the Jug and learn to fly some Hunmobiles.
What planes have them and what is the name of the rockets I need to load? I'll work out the rest and post the data if I have any luck.
BTW, Air to Ground rockets work wonderfully when the vulch light is on:lol
Magoo
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Originally posted by dedalos
In 2 years, firing from 6 or 12 I have yet to do any damage to a buff. Last month I fired 1 at a B17 formation from their 3 oclock. Got my first kill. lol
You outta join my 190A5 and I'll show you how to hit buffs with these rockets. They are quite easy to use and you get a good laugh from "wtf" scrolling on 200 soon after you kill the formation. A while back I killed a 152 and p38 in the same sortie with a rocket each.
Here's a pic I made for my squadies showing how I use the rockets. Just put the con inside the yellow circle and fire a rocket.
(http://home.comcast.net/~chuckthepug/buffs.jpg)
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Yes these rockets will ground detonate. I have had proximity kills on 2 jeeps, numerous town buildings, and direct hit kill (1) on an M3. Just learning to use them for Air-to-Air.