Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Preon1 on October 03, 2004, 04:21:25 AM
-
I think everyone can agree that the game is leaning away from level bombing. People are just not willing to put the time it takes into taking a formation up to altitude when your such a kill magnet and it's so difficult to hit your target. There's also no variety of methods to spend your perks. So...
What if we had an option, very much like the formation option, to spend 3-5 perks on a high altitude spawn? The formation would spawn at 10k AGL directly over the runway spawn with initial conditions of 150 TAS and gear up. Ofcourse, you would only have that option provided that the base you were launching from wasn't flashing.
That would get rid of the tedium of climbing those first 10k feet, and allow people to spend thier bomber perks. We might even see more level bombing in the game.
-
Doesn't sound all that bad to me. Might as well get to spend those perks on something. One bad thing would be if you were flying along and all of sudden you smack into some bomber that just spawned.
-
Talk about gamey...
When I first started playing this game. I started off in bombers. Half of the enjoyment for me was the climb to whatever my target altitude was.
If you are having problems making it up there due to fighters tormenting you, take off at a base way behind the front line bases. So by the time you are in enemy territory you'll be high enough that most fighters wont want to bother going after you.
This idea has too much of a Counter Strike flavor to it.
Edit: ALSO if you find someone who wants to fly bombers with you the whole flight becomes that much more enjoyable. For me no matter what it is I am doing in the game, when I am winging up with another player the whole deal is much more fun. Also when you are flying bombers in formation, close formation you are a much stronger force deffencivly and offencivly.
-
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
ALSO if you find someone who wants to fly bombers with you the whole flight becomes that much more enjoyable. For me no matter what it is I am doing in the game, when I am winging up with another player the whole deal is much more fun. Also when you are flying bombers in formation, close formation you are a much stronger force deffencivly and offencivly.
Agreed. But this isn't trying to make things more fun for the squadrons (and their fun won't change). I'm trying to make things more fun for the person who wants to log on, fly a 30 minute mission and log off. It's also there to encourage people to try bombers, score perks, and use them.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think the perk cost should be 10 or more for the altitude spawn so people won't necessarily make the points back when they fly.
-
i asked HT a couple of years ago about having spawn points directly above the base you were taking off from, at 10k above the base, i thought this would help with the bordom of extra long flights to get alt.. i know some sort of rules would need to apply, like for instance dedicated bomber bases or un flashing bases , or whatever..
anyway HT said it was somthing that was thought about but disregarded,, maybe nows the time for fresh thoughts..:aok
-
Booooooooooooo Hisssssssssss from the crowd. Arcade Alert! Warning Will Robinson arcadish being approaching!
-
hehe jackle , no more arcadish than V spawn point or camping
-
Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Talk about gamey...
But this is a game
-
Wow!
Another "it's a game" thread or "it should be like a sim" thread.
People are gonna have to make up thier minds on what kind of Game OR Sim they would ultimately like AH to be.
Still, to this day I play GPL, a racing sim that caters to the sim crowd and the love of old GP cars. In GPL there is no short cuts, damage is realistic, you don't get to put 5 superchargers on your car or start a race a lap ahead of anyone else. It is a simulation and unforgiving.
Now some people really like it and some don't, some like to be able to bounce of of trees at 80mph and keep racing, and for that I say go play Need for Speed or Mid town madness or the likes.
Seems the last month or so the BB has been full of posts on "this is gamey", "this is a sim" "It's a sim with a gamey flavor", well seems like some people are going to have to make up their minds on what kind of game or sim they want AH to be. Whenever you mix the two your going to get the CounterStrike mentality gameplay and the BBS filled with these types of posts. It will never end.
-
If you start that, then people are going to ask for other 'spawns' for their bomb laden fighter-bombers and fighters.
Planes take off from runways, not in midair.
I'm surprised PT boats can spawn without a carrier.
-
Originally posted by acetnt367th
But this is a game
Yeah, this is a game. But its not Counter Strike or Quake 3.
If you want a game like those go play them and leave AH the way it is.
Quit screwing with what used to be a good thing and is slowly becoming more like an arcade than anything else.
-
Originally posted by MOIL
Still, to this day I play GPL
Outstanding, me too - GPL will never leave my hard drive :D
-
wOOt!
(http://www.mrufer.ch/gpl/gpl.jpg)
-
Originally posted by MOIL
Seems the last month or so the BB has been full of posts on "this is gamey", "this is a sim" "It's a sim with a gamey flavor", well seems like some people are going to have to make up their minds on what kind of game or sim they want AH to be. Whenever you mix the two your going to get the CounterStrike mentality gameplay and the BBS filled with these types of posts. It will never end.
I'm all for making it more of a sim. I'd like to see historical planesets over historical maps drawn to scale. I'd like death to mean something. I'd like to see missions spawn with a logical air campaign in mind. I'd like to see chains of command, formation, and cohesive group tactics. Sadly, TOD is at best over the horizon.
The fact is, for now, we play in the main arena. A location that hardly screams 'sim', and has plenty of other gamey additions incorporated in the name of balance, immersion, and fun. HT has said many times that in a struggle between fun and realism, fun will win out. In this case, high altitude level bombing is not balanced or immersive, and the climbout is rarely fun.
This is just an idea to help with that.
-
i would love hi alt spawns for buffs...
they had hi alt spawn on a Snapshot map awhiel back..
soem euro map..
i would vote yes
I haTE grabbing for an hour to have 20k under my buff
too long..
-
Originally posted by streetstang
Yeah, this is a game. But its not Counter Strike or Quake 3.
If you want a game like those go play them and leave AH the way it is.
Quit screwing with what used to be a good thing and is slowly becoming more like an arcade than anything else.
What do you really know about war. It is a game, life is when you shut off your computer. There are so many parts of this game that are not "realistic" but you forget this. You, like me, are online wannabe fighter pilots...want the real thing - -join the army..It not a game then.
I play to have fun, to ease stress..try it sometime.
-
Originally posted by GreenCloud
I haTE grabbing for an hour to have 20k under my buff
too long..
Its not like you're paying per hour, you don't have to go to 20k, you don't have to fly a bomber, etc etc etc.
People asking to spawn at a certain alt is like asking for free perks if you're using a mouse to fly,
-
"UPDATE Oct 2nd: I can connect and play AH2, but I can't afford the monthly subscription and I can't get two weeks free"
Then find another hobby
That's like saying, "I bought this dirt bike but cant afford the fuel to go ride it"
What!!! did ya think the fuel was FREE
-
no no no!
-
this is off topic and i appologize but i wish we could have 1 person work each gun position on a bomber rather than 1 guy work all guns. I think that would add tremendously to the immersion of the game.
-
Originally posted by Fauxbra
this is off topic and i appologize but i wish we could have 1 person work each gun position on a bomber rather than 1 guy work all guns. I think that would add tremendously to the immersion of the game.
HTC already said, aint gonna happen, sorry:(
-
Originally posted by Fauxbra
this is off topic and i appologize but i wish we could have 1 person work each gun position on a bomber rather than 1 guy work all guns. I think that would add tremendously to the immersion of the game.
Yea, I`d love that also, but it`s a dead issue.
-
Originally posted by MOIL
"UPDATE Oct 2nd: I can connect and play AH2, but I can't afford the monthly subscription and I can't get two weeks free"
Then find another hobby
That's like saying, "I bought this dirt bike but cant afford the fuel to go ride it"
What!!! did ya think the fuel was FREE
I think thats besides the topic. What I meant in there that since I came to school, I was behind a firewall. I couldn't connect to AH2. I cancelled my subscription. Now I can. I could connect, but said I needed to register. I registered, thinking I'd get at least 2 weeks free ( I was missing the new updates and patches and I wanted to see how they are ). I couldn't. Is that wrong?
I'm still keeping the dirt bike, but I'm saving up for the gas:lol
As for this topic, I'm sure its been talked before, but something we haven't seen yet from HTC.
-
I am against spawning bombers up high.
When a base is attacked by gvs you just spawn the high bombers and clear your base?
You are on difficult to intercept altitude right away.. so anyone trying to cap the base to prevent an attack at his own base is at great disadvantage.
ciao schutt
-
No Air Starts. Go play MS Combat Flight Sim for that crap.
ack-ack
-
Base capped, FHs down, no prob. 10 formations of B17s will show up at 5K to eliminate the enemy fighters.
-
I'd love it, but it would be unfair. The whole idea of bombing runs is to take off, get to altitude, fly to target, bomb.
If we start spawning buffs at 10K the fighters are going to be more disadvantaged. (Imagine two bases, close together).
I agree with Morph...either you live with the solo aspect, or get a fighter escort....the latter being easier in squads.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
Base capped, FHs down, no prob. 10 formations of B17s will show up at 5K to eliminate the enemy fighters.
That wouldn't happen in the system I proposed.
Originally posted by Preon1
Ofcourse, you would only have that option provided that the base you were launching from wasn't flashing.
-
Originally posted by Preon1
That wouldn't happen in the system I proposed.
Oups, too early in the morning. Sory about that
-
Bombers would be a lot more fun if they only did one thing - allowed larger crews (ideally a full crew).
-
jeez, hey I got an idea lets just all sign a peace treaty. BUff spawns? are you kidding me? then the goon should spawn by enemy town. War is not supposed to be an even fight. Someone should win. Someone should lose. Deal with it.
-
what a silly idea (imo).
I think a lot of folks don't high alt bomb because of the inconsistency of the accuracy of the bomb site in AH2.
I know HT.. before you say anything.. the bombsite is not an exact science...
but... it has changed since AH1.. in AH1 I could fly at alts of 25k plus and with proper calibration.. I could actually hit a specific target or two.. with just a cpl of bombs.
But that is impossible to do now. Regardless of how much time or how careful the calibration now.. more than likely you will not hit the target.
I think that is a reason a lot of guys don't fly High level bomber formations any longer. I know I don't.
Now you have to pretty much carpet bomb from high alt.. and hope you are in the same zip code when the bombs impact.
For guys that are into the bomber missions.. we don't really mind the long flights or the enemy fighter attacks... that is part of the game.. what we do not like is the improbability of hitting our target consistently. Therefore a feeling of wasted time comes into the picture.
I remember when I flew with the 325th in CT we had missions with our bomber crews that lasted for almost 2 hours for a single mission. No one minded this... that actually contributed to the realism of the gameplay.
I think a "bomber spawn point" is not the answer and imo a silly suggestion.
Anyone that does not have the patience to plan an attack plot your course and fly from a distant base to gain hilgh alt to attack a target.. probably should not be attempting high alt bombing.. but stay in fighters or other low level attack ac for a quicker fight.
Now before the flame throwers light their torches... I prefaced everything with: IMO... and that my friend is my right! :aok
-
I agree... having a full crew.. or at least several gunners and perhaps a bombadier would be a real hoot.
Now the maximum of gunners in a bomber formation is 2 people.. (pilot and passenger gunner)
HT... think about enableing us to do that.. that would really be fun.
-
I just noticed... I have been here since Dec 02 and I am still a member...
hmmm not Sr. yet? lol
-
Originally posted by eta32
I just noticed... I have been here since Dec 02 and I am still a member...
hmmm not Sr. yet? lol
Post more, its not time driven.
-
It would make vulching buff formations too hard.
-
Originally posted by eta32
what a silly idea (imo).
Regardless of how much time or how careful the calibration now.. more than likely you will not hit the target.
Not really my experience, at least since I got better joytstick. On the other hand, I usually drop from 8-15k.
I guess I dont see the point of climbing to 25k; I dont have unlimited time, and if I want to bomb I can get 2 missions at medium alt in the time it would take to get that high. The ONLY reason I can think of to spend that time is to try to avoid fighters -- but killing them (or trying) is half the fun! Many fighters dont handle well or cant reach 20k, and even those that can perofrm up there wont often chase. Fighter pilots dont want to waste that time either.
Try bombing lower -- I can hit specific building groups at 15k+. You'll enjoy the cat and mouse of defending against fighters, and if you have a wingmate who'll formation buff with you you'll be suprised at how many fighters you can clean up.
-
Originally posted by BigGun
It would make vulching buff formations too hard.
:lol :lol :lol
But seriously, what about allowing it at the same base that has 163's enabled? It would still avoid the climbout, it'd be rear area enough to prevent buff blasting as base defense, and it could be handy when a country is close to elimination.
-
I could see it now your trying to capture a base. Only BH left up and 100 gunned buffs drop in the fight from 10k.
-
This is the anti-thesis of sorts of the "low level bombing formations are gamey", well here's a possible suggestion to get the belly scrapers off the ground that sounds pretty good. But too gamey??
I've said this before, but with all the bases so close together, this thing begins as a game, not a sim. It's funny how "gamey-ness" always begins just past an individual's own comfort zone. If the fighter jocks had to fly a minimum of half an hour or more to reach an nme base, while certainly more "simmy", it would be unacceptable. Hey, it would help eliminate those suicide attacks too, huh? If gv guys had to spend an hour driving across the landscape to attack, forget it. But, OMG, do something for the bomber guys on a little time/space compression basis, oh nooooo, way too gamey. Lets not forget auto takeoff either. Hmmm, I wonder how often German Panzer crews rolled down the sides of mountains in neutral at speeds approaching 60-70 mph?
Puh-leeze
BTW heavy fighters aren't nearly as restricted as to getting up and over to the base as bombers are, no reason to have a running start for them.
-
Lets not forget auto takeoff either.
How is that hurting the game?
-
<-- Gots a good suggestion. First, the auto take off does hurt the game because people need to learn how to take off properly. This would seperate the newbies from the pros when in missions, and also getting off the field to defend. If you don't know how, there is always the training arena. In my opinion, I think too many of ya give the newbie's too much room to learn the game. Push them to learn in the training arena before coming to the MA.
Now to the bomber aspect.... It seems as though Hitech is really stressing perks and ENY values etc. Why not perk extra bombers in a formation?
Here... Lets say you want to take up a B17 to destroy a field. 1 B17 - no perks required. To take up a second B17 to join in a formation - 5 perks. To take up a third, another 5 perks. So in total if you were taking a formation of B17's you would be spending 10 perkies each run - that is if you didn't return them to Uncle Sam. Think about it... The luxury of not having to deal with suicidal formations of bombers time and time again. While it may be fun to blow a field to pieces in lancs, it does seem logical to have negative consequences for doing so. THe only way I can think of penalizing is perking extra bombers you add to a formation.
I also like my other idea of additional perks per thousand feet. It doesnt take alot of skill to dive at a target and release at low level correct? We all can agree that level bombing takes much more skill. So why not award the players who DO level bomb, more perk points per target according to their bombing altitude.
-
Originally posted by Mak333
<-- First, the auto take off does hurt the game because people need to learn how to take off properly.
Why??? All it takes to take off is full throtle, even wep on if you like, and a litle bit of ruder. Anyone can master it after 3 tries.
When you meet someone in the air, how does the way they took off effect the outcome of the fight?
-
Originally posted by Mak333
Now to the bomber aspect.... It seems as though Hitech is really stressing perks and ENY values etc. Why not perk extra bombers in a formation?
Here... Lets say you want to take up a B17 to destroy a field. 1 B17 - no perks required. To take up a second B17 to join in a formation - 5 perks. To take up a third, another 5 perks. So in total if you were taking a formation of B17's you would be spending 10 perkies each run - that is if you didn't return them to Uncle Sam.
This might be feasible if they ever fix it so that the drones don't pop like balloons whenever an enemy fighter gets near, not to mention the damage transfer bug that still shows up from time to time. I can deal with the guns being less accurate than they used to be, but the drone toughness seems way too weak to make them perk-worthy.
-
Dedalos, you took it wrong, probably from my poor explanation. Taking off in different planes is totally different. You don't feel the difference if you always leave auto-take off on or if you never re-arm. The problem being that people just seem to think the battle is in the air. Well, if you can't get off the ground, you can't fight. I never said that the battle is determined in the air because of the take off. I am strictly talking about takeoff's. There may not be a "need" to take off the auto-takeoff option but it would definitely be more realistic...
This is more than a game, this is an opportunity to learn about flying and simulations. Why not make it as real as it can get to a reasonable point?
-
Originally posted by Mak333
<-- Gots a good suggestion. First, the auto take off does hurt the game because people need to learn how to take off properly. This would seperate the newbies from the pros when in missions, and also getting off the field to defend. If you don't know how, there is always the training arena.
So we now measure one's skill by their ability to take off with out auto-take off? :rolleyes:
ack-ack
-
No Ack-Ack, its simply a realism factor...:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Mak333
Dedalos, you took it wrong, probably from my poor explanation. Taking off in different planes is totally different. You don't feel the difference if you always leave auto-take off on or if you never re-arm. The problem being that people just seem to think the battle is in the air. Well, if you can't get off the ground, you can't fight. I never said that the battle is determined in the air because of the take off. I am strictly talking about takeoff's. There may not be a "need" to take off the auto-takeoff option but it would definitely be more realistic...
This is more than a game, this is an opportunity to learn about flying and simulations. Why not make it as real as it can get to a reasonable point?
Understood, but there is no skill in it. Full throtle, little ruder, done. Three tries and you are a master. Plus, it gives me time to reach for my beer :D
-
Originally posted by eta32
I just noticed... I have been here since Dec 02 and I am still a member...
hmmm not Sr. yet? lol
Send a copy of your AARP card to Hitech, they will elevate you to senior status and give you two free tickets to the buffet lunch each month.
-
I'm going to start using the AR 234's more, I don't think I've actually ever flown one other than a test flight or two. What the heck are they good for anyway? Low level sneak attacks?
-
Don't waste your time. They're really not good for much anymore, since they carry so few bombs (only 3 500 kg bombs). They might be good for drawing a cloud of airplanes toward you and away from their normal cap of a field, but that's about it. It's also cheaper than a 262 when you want to go CV hunting.