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General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Kev367th on October 03, 2004, 01:23:23 PM

Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Kev367th on October 03, 2004, 01:23:23 PM
Operation Calendar 1942.
Aircraft originally in Dk Earth / Stone upper, azure lower.
Uppers hastily repainted aboard ship with either Deck Blue or Navy Blue and temporary ID codes added. Became known as "Malta Blue" camo.

(http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/malta.jpg)

No paint chips, just ragged painted round roundels, serial number has exposed original paint behind it.
Little bit of fiddling left to do, just noticed a layer is in wrong position on stbd wing for one thing.

(http://hsfeatures.com/images/maltaspitfirese_MBmaltaU2.jpg)
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Kevin14 on October 03, 2004, 02:25:36 PM
Looks good.  I like the color scheme!
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: United on October 03, 2004, 03:02:59 PM
Great work Kev.

Bullethead did some work in AH1 on Malta Spits.  You may want to ask him (if he's still around?) for some info.

Here are two of his:

(http://people.delphiforums.com/jtweller/MaltaSpitSkin.jpg)
 
(http://people.delphiforums.com/jtweller/SpitX1.jpg)
This one is absolutely fantastic.  I still get ideas off of it, and its not even AHII standards.
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Kev367th on October 03, 2004, 03:58:26 PM
They are nice, but looks like he used PRU blue for the upper surfaces.
The blue used was either Deck Blue or Navy Blue both of which are a lot darker.
Also they put a ver light covering on the control surfaces as they were worried about it interfering. Some had the control surfaces left the original color.
I'll get better pics of mine, the orignal is a little dark.
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Kev367th on October 04, 2004, 02:57:19 PM
Looked at the orignal pic again.
The aelerons definately look a different color, so I am guessing that this was one were the control surfaces were left unpainted.

(http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed\malta2.jpg)
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Nefarious on October 04, 2004, 03:01:18 PM
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/145_1079989675_maltaspits.jpg)


Heres some good profiles from AOA Spitfire V Aces 1941-45
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Kev367th on October 04, 2004, 03:07:20 PM
Nice,
Bottom one is interesting looks like dk earth and azure uppers, never seen that.
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Guppy35 on October 04, 2004, 03:31:12 PM
The debate over the colors of Malta Spits has gone on for a long time.  I'm not sure they have ever reached a definate conclusion.

About the only thing you can know for sure is that the Spit Vc Trops that launched from the Wasp were loaded onboard in the Dark Earth, Middle Stone, Azure Blue camo.  

The camo they left the Wasp in is open for debate

Dan/Slack
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Kev367th on October 04, 2004, 03:35:47 PM
What would you reckon to #21, 23 or 24 here ...

http://s96920072.onlinehome.us/Rev1/201-300/Rev289_VPD48006_Victory-Models/rev289.htm

Looking closely at 21.
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Guppy35 on October 04, 2004, 04:05:21 PM
Tough call on the camo.  All part of that same debate.

Here's an artist's version of that same Spit v from "Spitfire-The Canadians"

The SN-A coded bird is a fairly well known Spit V of NZ ace Evan Mackie.  The profile of that bird in the Spit V Aces book by Osprey shows basically the same camo as a normal 42 on Spit in the ETO without the tail band and a red nose.  There are a couple of photos of Mackie with that Spit V that also had 6 exhaust stacks.  They aren't clear as to the camo as you can't really even see the demarcation line between colors.

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1096923766_buerling1.jpg)
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Guppy35 on October 04, 2004, 04:10:21 PM
Profile of the Evan Mackie Spit V

#24 on those decal sheets you posted.  His biography is a very enjoyable read if you ever get the chance

Called "Spitfire Leader" by Max Avery and Chris Shores

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1096924120_mackiespitv.jpg)
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Kev367th on October 05, 2004, 11:09:29 AM
Tried a quick two tone one.

(http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/malta2t.jpg)

You think the scheme is reliable, ie could it be verified by HTC?
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Replicant on October 05, 2004, 12:53:17 PM
Kev, don't know if these two links are of any help?

http://hsfeatures.com/maltabluesse_1.htm

http://www.ipmscanada.com/threads/th13-moremalta.html
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Guppy35 on October 05, 2004, 01:08:19 PM
The links sent by Replicant, just highlight the issue with the Malta Spits.  No one really knows for sure and no one, despite years of hunting has been able to find any documentation listing the colors.

So it becomes a roll of the dice on whether the colors are correct or not.  I don't know how Hitech & Co would decide as I don't think they' have any more info then all the Spit historians out there.  It really just comes down to someones guess as to whether it's right or not.

As for the screenshot you posted Kev, just my opinion but somehow the blues seem too light.  The Malta Spits appear much darker in the images

Image from an old High Flight Magazine showing a 249 Squadron Spit Vc on Malta.  It looks almost black and there seems to be no break in the color even on the nose underneath onto the large Volks filter.

I'd suggest that any blue you use would want to be much darker and shaded towards almost dark gray.

Just my opinion of course :)

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1096999604_maltaspit.jpg)
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Replicant on October 05, 2004, 01:13:16 PM
I'll ask Furball to see if he can find out anything from the RAF Museum Hendon.  I know when I phoned the Royal Navy museum they were great in specifying the correct colours.  I hope the RAF museum has something similar!

My PC is being packed away this weekend so hopefully Furby can find something out before then!
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Guppy35 on October 05, 2004, 02:01:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
I'll ask Furball to see if he can find out anything from the RAF Museum Hendon.  I know when I phoned the Royal Navy museum they were great in specifying the correct colours.  I hope the RAF museum has something similar!

My PC is being packed away this weekend so hopefully Furby can find something out before then!


I think the problem will be that they were not using standard RAF colors.  It's more then likely they were using US Navy paints off the Wasp, at least initially when they launched.

And I don't know that any two Spits on Malta were really the same.

Kind of a skinner's paradise in someways as it allows for some creative camo :)

Dan/Slack
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Kev367th on October 05, 2004, 02:42:52 PM
Lol, well now I am totally confused.

Seems either -
a) Blues based on USN colors. eg Deck blue and Navy Blue or poss insignia blue. (1st screenshot)
b) Slim possiblitlity of the Dark and light Meditteranean blues. (eg the two-tone screenshot)
c) Dark earth and extra dark sea grey (as per replicants link).
d) Standard dark earth / midstone.
f) Nefarious profile of dk earth and what appears to be azure or more likely dk meditteranean blue..
g) Any other scheme that anyone could come up with.

Even more theories here -
http://www.ipmscanada.com/threads/th14-moremalta.html

That last pic you posted Dan would confirm the post in the link above suggesting that in 1943 some of 249sqn were flying in possibly overall Extra Dark Sea Grey uppers.

HELP!!!!!!
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Replicant on October 05, 2004, 05:44:28 PM
Furby posted this link to find information out from the RAF Museum Hendon... might be worth a try?

http://www.rafmuseum.org/hendon/research/contact.cfm
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: Guppy35 on October 05, 2004, 06:03:56 PM
Just to add to the confusion on Malta Spits :)

Some photos off the Pathe News site that I grabbed a while back.  Note the camo showing up and note that some have the big tropical filter and some don't.

That at least gives the AH2 Spit V look the ok historically off Malta

Bottom photo is another one from Spitfire at War II showing that same dark camo as the first one I posted.  This is a 249 Squadron kite as well.  Dark all the way down the tropical filter.

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1097017158_maltaspits1.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1097017185_maltaspits2.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1097017211_maltaspits4.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1097017236_maltaspitv.jpg)
Title: Spit V Malta
Post by: dsrtrat on October 07, 2004, 09:10:16 AM
Guppy, where did you get those beauty pics from? Are there any 417 sqd pics available? My uncle was the CO of 417 in 1944 and I am always on  the lookout for some new shots. 417 operated from Malta prior to the invasion of sicily. I suspect their borwn spits would stand out like sore thumbs over the water.