Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: moot on October 04, 2004, 07:50:54 AM

Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: moot on October 04, 2004, 07:50:54 AM
In a nutshell, why's the Kyoto environment treaty not of interest to the US (or the current govt)?
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: Nilsen on October 04, 2004, 08:05:15 AM
Prolly because it may put a slight hamper on economic growth.
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: Ripsnort on October 04, 2004, 08:22:10 AM
A good article (http://mitosyfraudes.8k.com/INGLES-2/KyotoFlaw.html)  pointing out the flaws with the Kyoto treaty.
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: GRUNHERZ on October 04, 2004, 08:28:45 AM
Kyoto leaves countries like China and India with less strict envioronental regulations while imposing harsh standards on western economies..  

This is incredibly stupid and shortsighted and practically suicidal for the west for two related reasons.

First because India and in particular China are in a stage of incredible economic and industrial growth.  Historically the period where a nation pollutes the most and creates the biggest environmental disaters.  Yet Kyoto would impose far lower standards for these explosivly growing and polluting econmoies than for the west's more stable and cleaner ones...

Second this economic growth is leading to greater competition between those countries and the west. If they are allowed under the treaty to pullute at much greater rates while the west imposes on itself these harsh regulation this will be a huge economic and cost advantage for India and China. The result will be even higher profit margins for thewm, on top of cheap labor and of course even more outsourcing to these nations from the west..

No sane western economy should submint to this Kyoto nonsense...
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: Nilsen on October 04, 2004, 08:50:44 AM
The western countries has to set a good example before you can expect any other developing countries to care.

Reason for not signing is economical.
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: Ripsnort on October 04, 2004, 08:53:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen


Reason for not signing is economical.


Quote
The extensive coverage given his statement showed how this attitude resonates well with the media and the public, many of whom have little patience with a "profits before environment" approach. But statements like Okalik's only have power if people really believe human activity has a significant negative impact on global climate. Do away with that doctrine and Kyoto reduces to another cost/benefit pollution debate, one that the treaty's supporters would have quickly lost.

The real question should have been, do most climate scientists support the doomsday scenarios of environmental extremists such as David Suzuki and others who have misled Environment Minister David Anderson?

Of course not. In the past few months, more and more climate scientists have been speaking out about the scientific flaws of Kyoto. These scientists are not funded by big oil or any commercial interests. However, many are funded by the federal government and so speaking out has been risky -- many of their peers, while sharing their skepticism about the foundation of Kyoto, have concluded that it is safer to say nothing than risk losing vital federal research dollars.


Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: Nilsen on October 04, 2004, 08:55:12 AM
how convenient
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: Charon on October 04, 2004, 08:58:44 AM
Quote
The western countries has to set a good example before you can expect any other developing countries to care.


I don't think they're going to care all that much unless they are forced to care -- either through restrictive trade policy or an environment that is so polluted that unrest starts to develop.

Charon
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: lazs2 on October 04, 2004, 09:08:51 AM
wouldn't it make sense to work on those who are doing the least to control pollution?

lazs
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: moot on October 04, 2004, 09:12:25 AM
Thanks!
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: GRUNHERZ on October 04, 2004, 10:06:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
The western countries has to set a good example before you can expect any other developing countries to care.

Reason for not signing is economical.


China will not care unless law requires them to.  China is allready one of the worst environental offenders now, despit the fact that the west and even Japan has been implementing enviorental preservation and cleanup policies after their own industrial expansion and the huge disaters caused by it..  China has not learened anything or accepted thjose lessons..
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: MrCoffee on October 04, 2004, 12:39:17 PM
They should have a Los Angeles treaty. Where companies overseas that wish to keep the US in the WTO as a fair competitor must conform to an international pullution and recycle standard say within ten years with each year an incremental improvement. Etc... That would be the real fair thing to do. So anyways, that will never happen.
Title: Re: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: FUNKED1 on October 04, 2004, 01:00:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
In a nutshell, why's the Kyoto environment treaty not of interest to the US (or the current govt)?


Economic suicide.
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: Thrawn on October 04, 2004, 01:54:15 PM
Global Warming is the problem, Kyoto is not the solution.


Wow, my very own sound bite!  :)

If nations followed the tenets of Kyoto, globabl warming will become worse.  Ask Lizking to give you an explanation, he convinced me.
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: GRUNHERZ on October 04, 2004, 01:57:39 PM
YOu mean somebody changed somebody elses mind on this BBS?
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: FUNKED1 on October 04, 2004, 02:06:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
YOu mean somebody changed somebody elses mind on this BBS?


That's amazing.  It requires two intelligent people to communicate.  I didn't think it was possible here.
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: Ripsnort on October 04, 2004, 02:08:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
That's amazing.  It requires two intelligent people to communicate.  I didn't think it was possible here.


And one a Texan no less.....{Thump:}
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: mora on October 04, 2004, 02:16:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Kyoto leaves countries like China and India with less strict envioronental regulations while imposing harsh standards on western economies..  

This is incredibly stupid and shortsighted and practically suicidal for the west for two related reasons.

First because India and in particular China are in a stage of incredible economic and industrial growth.  Historically the period where a nation pollutes the most and creates the biggest environmental disaters.  Yet Kyoto would impose far lower standards for these explosivly growing and polluting econmoies than for the west's more stable and cleaner ones...

Second this economic growth is leading to greater competition between those countries and the west. If they are allowed under the treaty to pullute at much greater rates while the west imposes on itself these harsh regulation this will be a huge economic and cost advantage for India and China. The result will be even higher profit margins for thewm, on top of cheap labor and of course even more outsourcing to these nations from the west..

No sane western economy should submint to this Kyoto nonsense...



Maybe there should be an universal pollution limit per capita. That would leave no place for whining.

How would you guys like that?:D
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: lazs2 on October 04, 2004, 02:24:26 PM
per capita is good but it needs to take into consideration production per capita..... if you are nomadic camel herders in the middle of the desert you might not want the same restrictions as automobile producing factories.

lazs
Title: Kyoto and the USA
Post by: mora on October 04, 2004, 02:30:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
per capita is good but it needs to take into consideration production per capita..... if you are nomadic camel herders in the middle of the desert you might not want the same restrictions as automobile producing factories.

lazs


Yes, productivity should be taken into account.