Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Modas on October 05, 2004, 01:03:46 PM
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Hey Gents -
I'm finally back from my trip to Germany. What a hoot. All I gotta say is the beer was absolutely fantastic. The sights were good, but the beer was the best... :D
Anywho, now that I'm back, I can start focusing on my restoration project of a '64 chevy impala. I'm researching engines (currently have a 283) and was leaning towards a 383 stroker with 450 HP.
However, this car probably will not be raced (much :cool: ) and will mostly be a cruising and occasional daily driver. I have been told, that 450 HP is actually to much power for a car that is going to be used as a cruiser and that much horsepower is going to make the car unnecessarily squirrely especially on wet surfaces.
The car is a convertible, so it is going to be lighter than the standard Impala and currently has the powerglide 2-speed automatic transmission. However, the tranny is going to be updated to a tranny with overdrive for fuel economy
So, for you muscle car guys out there, what would you recommend? Keep in mind, I DO want to be able to smoke the rears, but don't want the back end sliding out from under me when passing someone on the highway when I step it down.
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Convertibles are generally hevier than sedans. That 283 is a nice little motor, with some work it will smoke the tires and get decent milage to boot.
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What you talking about, Willis? My bone stock 1967 Impala Station wagon with the 283 would smoke the tires, no problem.
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Originally posted by Lizking
What you talking about, Willis? My bone stock 1967 Impala Station wagon with the 283 would smoke the tires, no problem.
the 283 is a nice engine. Don't get me wrong. However, the engine needs to be totally torn down, rebuilt and set up to run on unleaded gas which I THINK requires work on the valve seats.
At this point, I have no idea what it would cost to do all that (estimating $3000), but I figgured for a little more money, I could get more performance. I'm looking for that "push you back in the seat" type of acceleration, but not so much that the car is difficult to drive.
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You would have to put new heads on it, but that isn't a bad thing. If you want to buy a crate motor, there are plenty of options out there too. Good luck with it either way, that is a cruiser.
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If you aren't opposed to lots of wiring, just do a LS1/4L60E drop, or LT1/4L60E. Both are rock solid engines with a rock solid tranny, just gotta get the computer and wiring installed.
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Is it really worthwile retaining the PG tranny? I suppose it will need a lot of mods to be able to take that power?
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ok.. reality check... 450 Hp isn't going to spin even 235 15 radials at 50 mph in that car.
64 impala is a very heavy car.. the convert is even heavier. you want torque more than HP for that car. When you get that 450 HP 383 in the car it will likely produce about 400 HP on pump gas with the timing curve set at something that won't pund the pistons into garbage.
I love a good 327 stick in a light car but the 383 in front of a slushbox in that heavy car is a pretty good choice... low rev'n and torquey... should be able to do a good burnout when you want and still have a well mannered car.
but... with the torque you get to see the ugly underbelly of the 58-64 chevy two piece driveshaft and the 55-64 cheve rear end.... neither of these fragile POS's like any real torque... they like it even less now that they are old...
there are solutions... aftermarket center bearings and spicer U joints for the driveshaft and... dana 40 spider gears and mosler or equal axels for the rear end. Posi is a must for the car IMO.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
ok.. reality check... 450 Hp isn't going to spin even 235 15 radials at 50 mph in that car.
64 impala is a very heavy car.. the convert is even heavier. you want torque more than HP for that car. When you get that 450 HP 383 in the car it will likely produce about 400 HP on pump gas with the timing curve set at something that won't pund the pistons into garbage.
I love a good 327 stick in a light car but the 383 in front of a slushbox in that heavy car is a pretty good choice... low rev'n and torquey... should be able to do a good burnout when you want and still have a well mannered car.
but... with the torque you get to see the ugly underbelly of the 58-64 chevy two piece driveshaft and the 55-64 cheve rear end.... neither of these fragile POS's like any real torque... they like it even less now that they are old...
there are solutions... aftermarket center bearings and spicer U joints for the driveshaft and... dana 40 spider gears and mosler or equal axels for the rear end. Posi is a must for the car IMO.
lazs
I would have to agree with Lazs. I'v seen what could hapen to a 63 Chevy. Just rember to beef up anthing that has to handale more torque. If you doen't youll be rebuild the whold drive train.
Have Fun.
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Go with an EFI motor...get HP and fuel mileage...LT1 w/4 speed od
I have a 4200 lb 1996 Imp SS with the LT1 and it will Lite em up and go 157 before the fuel shuts off. Runs a mid 14 sec qtr mile gets 24 mpg hwy 18 city and likes to spank 5.0 stangs.... Tag is: FASTERNU
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Originally posted by lazs2
ok.. reality check... 450 Hp isn't going to spin even 235 15 radials at 50 mph in that car.
lazs
REALLY?? Or are you pulling my leg? All my cars in the past have been small HP vehicles and 450 HP seems like an enormous amount of power
I'm upgrading the front end brakes to disk using covette spindles (which coincidently just drop in, '66 thru 82 I believe) which automatically puts me in the 15" tire range.
Interesting. I never thought of the impala as being a particularly heavy car, especially since it was convertible. Course I haven't looked at the specs either.
From what you've posted, it almost sounds like a 383/450 would be just barely big enough?
I'm probably really showing my ignorance here, but as this is my first restoration project, I want to make sure I get all ducks in a row before I get to far into it and find out I either dont have enough power, or to much which makes the car not fun to drive.
What are your thought about subframes?
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my take? you can never have too much Hp but.... you want a car that is tractable.... In my 2200 lb car my little 327 puts out in the 450 hp range but...
it does it with solid lifters huge single plane and double pumper and ignition at 24 degrees initial witn no vacum advance and 11.5 to one pistons.... it doesn't like to run at much under three grand and is only able to not fall on its face from a start because it is so light... i didn't want a lot of torque.. I purposely killed low end torque. the engine gets about 7 lbs vacum at 1000 rpm idle.
in your car... you want a car that will idle at 650 rpm and have a very flat torque curve... basicly... you want to be able to hit the gas at any gear or rpm and not have it stumble or lag much. Make sense?
With a heavy car that means vacum advance, efi or vacum secondary 4 barrel... you can get an easy 400 hp out of the motor you describe and it will pull harder than just about anthing you can buy off the showroom floor...
If you like the power of say a 390 hp cobra r then you will be very happy with the 383 in your car if it is tractable.
you want to fire it up and idle for hours in the heat or traffic with the air conditioner on and still fry the tires from a dead stop if you want without hurting anything but your tire budget.
My 69 el camino is a 468 with a 6 speed and air conditioning... it will do all of those things and short of a wet freeway it won't spin the 245 15's on the freeway unless it is just as I shift for a bit.. It is not squirlly.
I could go on and on I guess but that is the gist of it... if you have a specific question I might be able to answer it.
lazs
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"I have been told, that 450 HP is actually to much power for a car that is going to be used as a cruiser and that much horsepower is going to make the car unnecessarily squirrely especially on wet surfaces. "
The people who say these sorts of things usually drive 100 HP Ford Escorts and the like. I'd say 450 HP is indeed too much for kids and females; if you don't fall into one of those categories, then you're fine. A car really can't have too much power....that's like saying a girl looks too good....just doesn't make sense.
A '64 Impala is NOT an especially heavy car, unless you're comparing it to a Geo Metro or something. It weighs like 4500 pounds which is pretty average. A '48 Caddy...now that's a heavy car, weighing in at like 5800 pounds. Now compare that to a battleship like a Ford Excursion which is better than 7,000 and the Impala seems positively light by comparison.
If you aren't really worried about racing it or quarter mile times or such, pay little attention to max HP and instead focus on low end torque. That's what'll make your car fun.
"All my cars in the past have been small HP vehicles and 450 HP seems like an enormous amount of power "
If all you've driven before are cars with little HP, then I suspect you're also used to front wheel drive. If that is indeed the case, then it's the transition to rear-wheel drive that will get most of your attention.
J_A_B
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283 is a good strong engine. You can throw all kinds of mods in with the manifold and carb setup. It would probably give you the most versatile bang for the buck.
327, skip. 350, good engine, the "standard" for a lot of the old muscle cars.
400 small block, tough engine and will fit in the frame without a ton of mods. 396 is a big block, so skip that one.
Go with a turbo 400 tranny if it's an automatic. Nearly bulletproof. You can also do a lot of mods with shift kits and stall converters if you want.
For rear end, go with 3:11 gears if you want quick off the line and still have "some" high end. If you plan on a lot of quater mile stuff and don't mind horrible milage go with 4:11.
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I build this stuff on a daily basis, for a living. I'll give you my suggestions based on my experience over the past 25 years.
My suggestion would be a 406 small block Chevy if you want a small block. The car IS heavy, I owned one, it weighed 4200 pounds with a 409-425HP. It is relatively easy to build a driveable 406 or 408 that makes in excess of 440HP, and about 500 ftlbs of torque.
The PowerGlide has no durability issues, but it is not a good choice for this application. I'd suggest a well built 700 R4.
If you want a big block (my choice) I'd go for a nice 454. For the same driveability and durability as the 406 abve, you can have over 500HP.
I'd have to suggest a 4L80E if you were going the big block route.
You can get by without an overdrive transmission if you don't drive on the open road.
The car needs about a 3.73:1 gear.
If you want a stick shift, I'd suggest a Richmond 5 speed. If you go that route, you could use a 3.08:1 gear.
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hmmmm ... 1st id say Laz you need a tune up ... bad
Now if i was building it at a nice trouble free cruiser . i would probly stay in the 300-400 hp range and i'd probely use a heavy pulling type camshaft . (truck cam ) theres a great 350hp all in one set up injected small block that around $4500-4800 (this thing comes with everything from the computer to the throttle body and we've been putting it in street rods like crazy .
http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=475&Category_ID=2 (http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_ID=475&Category_ID=2) (ive got one on the stand right now as matter of fact awaiting my lazy arse to finish the chassis its going in)
If you want to stay carburated and stock looking there always the good ole ZZ4 (355 hp 350cu ) those sell for around $3500 and can be bumped up to 425-450 hp with a cam change , intake / carb and a decent set of headers.
these days its cheaper to buy a crate engine then it is to go thru a machine shop ...
now its all in your ussage of the car to determine what trans and gear set to use ..
if you want the best of bolth worlds id suggest a 3.55 or 3.73 rear gear and run a 700r4 overdrive trans behind it .
if your gonna keep the 2 speed then id check to see what gear it has then go from there . 3.08 0r 3.23's for more hiway type driving 3.36 to 3.73's for more snap off the line and if you really want a neck snaper put some 4.11's in it (but beware it will buzz the rpms on the freeway .)
As for going to a big block .... I'd say how big is your pocket book ??? (your gonna spend 2-4 times the amount to go this route) unless it was a 409 car to start with ... in that case you should email me cause we have 409 parts all over the place .
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The last 4 or 5 406 small blocks I built were a LOT cheaper than a ZZ4 PLUS a cam, intake, etc. Nevermind the fact that a ZZ4 doesn't make 355HP. Already had them on the dyno, and they need REAL help to make a true 355HP. And to change the cam you have to change valve springs, rockers, and other parts. The cam, intake, springs, rockers, and related labor will top $1K so fast it'll make you sick.
Crate motors are fine so long as you don't expect too much, and you don't mind settling for a mass produced cookie cutter motor that is not built specifically for what you want. If you don't mind having 10 or more less horsepower than you paid too much for, and it doesn't bother you that any number of people you meet may have the exact same motor as you do, then by all menas, buy a crate motor.
A big block won't cost 2-4 times what a small block will. More like 1.5 times as much. It will fit on the stock mounts with a little work.
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tell that story to my 68 camaro .... it ran 12.50's with a stock ZZ4
(sort of looks like around a solid 350 hp eng to me)
if your building a race car then by all means spend the big bucks .. come on Virgil the race motors in all the stuff out here are costing 15-20k these days and machine shop prices are thru the roof .
This one is up around 35-40k as it sits
(http://s90945482.onlinehome.us/roosite/images/DCP_0007.JPG)
Can you say 6.80's :D
Its really up to what Modas whats to do and how he plans on driving the car . (just remember the more hp you build the more maintanence/parts it needs) yes ive build alot of 450 hp engines that hang together nicly but they cost alot more then 4k .
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You buy your parts in the wrong places. And you pay too much.
I sent two 425 horse plus 406 small block Chevies out the door for UNDER $3500 each, with better parts than ANY ZZ4. They were dyno tested and made over 425HP. Ready to run. You can't get 425HP out of a ZZ4 for less than $4500, and it won't have the low speed torque or the driveability either. For $4500 you'd spend on a ZZ4, you can have 450HP plus out of a 406, and more reliable too.
And the dyno does not lie. The last ZZ4 crate motor I had made 342 horsepower, not 355. Oh, and it had special small lightweight pulleys ($300) AND a $400 Howard Stewart low drag water pump. When it came in the shop, right out of the crate, it ran on 5 cylinders, because the valves were not even adjusted properly. The carb GM specifies to get 355HP is an 80541 650HP Holley, sells for over $700 most places.
The 406 I sell has forged 5.7 rods, not powdered metal rods. It has stainless valves, a true roller timing set, a better intake, ARP bolts, and roller rockers. It will last a lot longer than a ZZ4 at anything over 375HP. It will also have over 50 ftlbs more torque than a ZZ4, and that is what moves heavy cars.
I can assure you I have more time and effort invested in crate motors, especially the ZZ4, than most people you know. Several tracks locally use the ZZ4 sealed crate motor. They go across my dyno regularly. And there is NOTHING at all special about a ZZ4. The heads are CHEAP Corvette heads with CHEAP parts. The rods are junky powdered metal. The block is a late model one piece rear seal light casting. The best thing about it is the forged crank, and it's only a 1053 steel one piece rear seal stock replacement part. Even the roller cam isn't anything to brag about, and you want to change it anyway.
You can spend as much as you want on a motor. I have a 550HP 454 on the engine stand right now, looks like the tab will be around $4500.
If you want to spend $20K - $30K, you can, it'll get you an all aluminum 2HP per cubic inch killer.
If you paid $30K plus for that, you paid too much. I built a 900HP plus 482 complete for under $20K. Could have been a 527 for the same price, and should have been, but the customer didn't want the bigger version.
Oh, and by the way, if your small block powered 68 Camaro runs 12.50 in the quarter, that's about 300HP, unless it weighs a lot more than 3500 pounds, or you had tons of tire spin. A true 350 plus HP motor should have you near 12 flat.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I build this stuff on a daily basis, for a living. I'll give you my suggestions based on my experience over the past 25 years.
Do you have a shop or website or just build on the side? I've got a number of shops that build engines (mostly in CA) but would love to add your's to the list as a source :)
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
My suggestion would be a 406 small block Chevy if you want a small block. The car IS heavy, I owned one, it weighed 4200 pounds with a 409-425HP. It is relatively easy to build a driveable 406 or 408 that makes in excess of 440HP, and about 500 ftlbs of torque.
With that much torque, am I going to have problems with the frame/rear end being able to handle all that especially since its a convertible? I'm trying to stay away from the BB engines as I don't want to be messing with the mounts and such. Basically looking for a drop in.
I'm basically building the car around the engine with as little modifications to the original structure as I can get away with. If the car/frame/rear end can handle 440HP/500 then FANSTASTIC!! :D
J_A_B - When I stated all my cars were low HP, there were all rear-wheel drive, just had the small v8's 150K+ miles and probably weren't putting out more than 200 HP on a good day :D Never drove a front-wheel drive car until I met the present G/F
Does anybody have any links to some good car restoration newgroups?
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guys... you are getting a little out in left field here. I could be wrong but I think the guy wants a dependable driver with an overdrive and good throttle response.
I believe he is talking a bout a stroked 350 (383) crate motor... either from a shop or direct from GM. They all put out around 400 hp at low RPM with a relatively mild cam that gets good vacum at idle. Nothing wrong with a 383.. Virgil is right tho that a 406 (bored 400) is better (wher you getting the blocks capt?)
I get the impression that modas doesn't want to be under the hood adjusting those gee wiz roller rockers or pulling plugs much even... he wants to open the hood to show his friends the motor that is moving his car so well.
virgil... I have the richmound 6 speed... it is 1,000 more but by the time you buy the linkage for the 5 speed they are pretty close (6 speed comes with linkage). Why not a 6 speed?
modas... the frame is fine in your car. you will most likely want to change to heavier duty hotchkiss susspension parts and some good gas shocks and beef up the driveshaft and rear end. Get a decent crate engine and then spend money on handling and stopping.
rosco... I probly do need a tune up... can't get either of my cars in the 11's... the tires will spin most all the way at the drags... the freeway is different. I know a lot of guys that claim they can spin the tires at 70 on the freeway by nailing the throttle and non of em do it when I'm in the car unless they abuse the car. None will do it from 3 grand and just punching it. even a 427 cobra replica or my Healey which both run low 12's and run side by side on the street. neither can get traction at the drags with street tires but both get plenty of bite on the street.
El Camino actually has better weitght distribution than a sedan.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I could be wrong but I think the guy wants a dependable driver with an overdrive and good throttle response.
I believe he is talking a bout a stroked 350 (383) crate motor... either from a shop or direct from GM. They all put out around 400 hp at low RPM with a relatively mild cam that gets good vacum at idle. Nothing wrong with a 383.. Virgil is right tho that a 406 (bored 400) is better (wher you getting the blocks capt?)
I get the impression that modas doesn't want to be under the hood adjusting those gee wiz roller rockers or pulling plugs much even... he wants to open the hood to show his friends the motor that is moving his car so well.
virgil... I have the richmound 6 speed... it is 1,000 more but by the time you buy the linkage for the 5 speed they are pretty close (6 speed comes with linkage). Why not a 6 speed?
modas... the frame is fine in your car. you will most likely want to change to heavier duty hotchkiss susspension parts and some good gas shocks and beef up the driveshaft and rear end. Get a decent crate engine and then spend money on handling and stopping.
rosco... I probly do need a tune up... can't get either of my cars in the 11's... the tires will spin most all the way at the drags... the freeway is different. I know a lot of guys that claim they can spin the tires at 70 on the freeway by nailing the throttle and non of em do it when I'm in the car unless they abuse the car. None will do it from 3 grand and just punching it. even a 427 cobra replica or my Healey which both run low 12's and run side by side on the street. neither can get traction at the drags with street tires but both get plenty of bite on the street.
El Camino actually has better weitght distribution than a sedan.
lazs
Absolutely.
I'm looking to make this car a dependable driver with some get up and go. Definitely don't want to be messing with the motor once its in with the exception of the normal maintainance stuff.
I'm budgeting $4500 - $6000 for the motor. If I can do it for less, that is fantastic, but every shop I've researched up to this point falls in this range. I'm definitely trying to stay away from the mass producted crate motors as I have also heard some horror stories. Granted, they are probably the exception, not the rule, but I definitely don't want to be messing with it once its in.
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Again....to keep this thread on-track get an EFI very dependable very drivable very friendly on the pocket book when it comes time to fuel up.....would post some pics of my pro-street 61 falcon but don't have a clue how....Nice pic above though
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I would probly suggest a a 383 stroker .. the crate ones are fine (but not quite as durable as a hand polished and massaged one)
Now the 383 is gonna make about 425-450hp and it will pull really nice with a 700r4 and 3.73 gears .
but the downside of this eng is if your heavy on the gas alot, its not gonna last as long as a nice 350 (its a tit for tat kinda thing here)
Remember no matter which eng you decide on your gonna need to add a set of headers and a nice 2 1/2 dual exhaust to it to get the best performance out of it .
http://www.midwestrestoparts.com/ (http://www.midwestrestoparts.com/)
http://www.classicindustries.com/ (http://www.classicindustries.com/)
I'm putting Danchuk in even though ther 55-7 chev and 64-72 A-body but some of there parts will interchange and they make "Great" stuff ive been using them for years
http://www.danchuk.com/ (http://www.danchuk.com/)
you can also try Year one ,A&M soft seal. do a search for them
theres a few more but i cant think of them at the moment ... Its been a while since ive done an impala (I'm currently doing a 56 nomad , I'll post pics later tonight when i get home)
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Originally posted by koda76
Again....to keep this thread on-track get an EFI very dependable very drivable very friendly on the pocket book when it comes time to fuel up.....would post some pics of my pro-street 61 falcon but don't have a clue how....Nice pic above though
Yep, If you can get an EFI for a decent price, then go for it. No hassle with tuning and better economy and driveability.
If you want I can put the pictures up for you. Just e-mail them to:
mora34(at)gmail dot com
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EFI is very user friendly and you can get complete units from aftermarket or wiring harnesses for conversion of stock units from painless wiring.
for small blocks like we are talking about here... A very real alternative to the tube headers and all the hassle they entail is.. the new cast iron copy of the "rams horn" vette design of old from speedway.. it is a better flowing copy that is said to flow allmost as well as tube headers without the hassle.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
EFI is very user friendly and you can get complete units from aftermarket or wiring harnesses for conversion of stock units from painless wiring.
for small blocks like we are talking about here... A very real alternative to the tube headers and all the hassle they entail is.. the new cast iron copy of the "rams horn" vette design of old from speedway.. it is a better flowing copy that is said to flow allmost as well as tube headers without the hassle.
lazs
What kind of hassles are associated with tube headers? Heat? Installation?
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Heat, noise, rust out, fitting of stock accessories and exhaust leaks along with interference problems with things like starters and oil filters... some brands and coatings are better than others..
lazs
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todays hi temp/crematic coated headers are actually really nice there less engine bay heat, they cool off really fast and they fit alot better then they did 20 years ago .
if you want to make potential of the horsepower then headers are the only way to go .. the larger reprodution "Ram horns" are nice in resto rides and slightly modifyed engs but they still dont scavange and breath the way a set of headers do.
if you go with cast manifolds its best to surface them really nice and install them without gaskets (this is for cast iron heads)
mine were coated 12 years ago and they still look good .
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I have people hunt blocks for me, I buy cores when they are available.
Nothing wrong with a Richmond 6 speed. But a 5 speed with a 3.08:1 gear is like a 4 speed with a 4.56:1 gear, in first gear, and a 3.08:1 gear in 5th. Somewhat cheaper and less complex. Either will be fine.
A well built 700R4 is a good option as well.
The 425HP 406 with a 700R4 is a common combination around here.
Have a driveshaft custom built. Although 55-64 Chevy rearends aren't the best, and aren't cheap, you can make one live behind a small block automatic setup easily, and it will do okay behind a stick if you are somewhat reasonable and prudent. The rest of the car should be fine. Beefing up the original will be about as cheap as buying something else and converting, with less hassle, and if you aren't going to race the car hard, it will live.
A convertible will be a little heavier than my old 409 hardtop was, about 150 pounds. I didn't do too much to that car, other than adding a second upper control arm on the rear, and stiffer bushings everywhere. The engine was STOCK. It originally came with two sets of head gaskets, and a set of different valve springs in the trunk. Took one set of gaskets out to raise compression, and swapped in the better valve springs. It was not too hard to maintain, despite solid lifters, dual carbs, and dual points. About an hour or so a week. I did kill a lot of Muncie 4 speeds, after I got the clutch setup figured out.
For your budget on the engine, you could get a REAL nice 406 with aluminum heads and a hydraulic roller, that will be reliable and low maintenance. EFI can be nice, but you better be able to maintain it or have someone who can. An aftermarket tuned port manifold with all the goodies, and a basicly stock GM system will run well. Or for a real nostalgia thrill, run two 350 TBI units on an Offy 2X4 intake. Done right, it looks like an old dual quad 283, and it is solid and simple.
The bigger the engine, the less stress it takes to make a given power level. That's why I like a 5.7" or 6" rod 406 so much. More power at a lower RPM than even a 383, and less trouble to build.
By all means, get a top quality coated header. And do not skimp on the exhaust.
Convert to power disc brakes. The brakes on that car SUCK. I know, I had a 409-425HP 64 Impala (wish i had it back, 6MPG and all), it would fly. But it wouldn't stop.
I do have a shop, have had for years. I do not have a website, I should though. I do build engines to ship all over, I have a couple in Norway, believe it or not. You can email me from the board if you want.
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Just fly Lazs out and give him your credit card.
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muncie 4 speeds :rofl Man i shelled so many countershafts and inputs in those i lost count ..1 good sidestep at the line and i'd be picking up parts .. along with track duty , they gave me 2 weeks worth when i spit the 4.33 posi at the line .
we used to use the old 58-62 pontiac 9.25 rear ends in those heavy impala's ect ..(62 is the perfured year because thats the heavy nascar housing ) they are as tough as a 9in ford and actually have a larger pinion shaft . but as Virgil said they arnt cheap .. I'f your really lucky you may still find one in a off the wall wrecking yard.
but the stock rearend will hang in there if your not to harsh with the build / trans shift pressures . i would freshen it up and put a good gear ratio in it .
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ok drool pic time ... latest project 56 Nomad bel air
(http://s90945482.onlinehome.us/roosite/images/56nomad2.jpg)
still has the original 265 eng , the old cast iron 2 speed ,Black w/white was the original colour scheme . alot of floor pan rust ,and basically what I would call a "Rat car" it will never be show quality , but after addressing the floors , eng compartment,and the major hurts it will be a nice driver.
(http://s90945482.onlinehome.us/roosite/images/56nomad1.jpg)
week 3 the floor pans are done ,90% of the parts have arrived ,the eng compartment and frame have been striped and painted ,the power brakes and power steering box are getting installed (Yes its getting disc brakes up front) , the steering column still has to be shortened and the "Rag joint" installed ,along with replacing the front end bushings and ball joints ect . the new eng is assembled and awaiting the trans to come back .
Heres just a sample of what ive done for 25 yrs , basically its just a model but in 1 to 1 scale :D
(Yes thats a 40 Ford coupe )
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captn... a few guys I know around here have 406's with overdrive autos behind em in heavy cars like Chevell's... they are very strong and dependable... seen a few 383's too and they are pretty nice too.
I have a 6 speed in the El Camino with 3.31 12 bolt posi... I get the same results you get with the 5 speed with less RPM drop between gears and I get 2K RPM at 70 on the freeway.. the 6 is a granmd more than the 5 but linkage is free and it is Long linkage which is superior to hurst.
For the 55-64 rears... My Healy uses a narrowed one for unsprung weight savings.. iit has 9" ford axle ends welded on and danna 40 spiders which allows me to dump the 17 spline chevy setup for 30 spline moslers... it is a very tough rearend for a car that weighs less than 2200 lbs..
funked... these guys know more about building engines than I ever did. I doubt I ever built more than a dozen or so and helped with as many more. I can still build a motor that is strong and dependable but... you can buy em now right in the crate better than the best I have ever built. I can still make one run as good as it is gonna tho I think.
One of the local shop guys who is legend around here offered to "tune" my elky... in the past he has taken friends big blocks and just by ear... picked up gobs of HP. I said fine thanks a lot. he admitted that my car felt pretty strong for what it was (mild 468) and proceeded to crank in more advance an such.. We ended up agreeing that we were better off putting everything back the way I had it and getting a more modern intake manifold for a few more HP.... I probly won't bother unless one falls in my lap.
The captn can probly build an extremely nice motor that would be perfect for that 64 car... I would use the savings on a new driveshaft, center bearing and rear end work and.... good front disc;s and hotchkiss and global west suspension parts.... for sure I would throw a set of bilstiens on it.
lazs
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oh yeah... the shop guy "test drove" my car when I brought it in... I told him to go for it and that they Long linkage would do anything a hurst would do only better.... he about lost it in second gear... very cool guy.. took it in stride.
oh... he told me the tires were breaking loose at 75 in 3rd.. i must be kinda dense cause I sure can't feel it.
lazs