Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 1K0N on October 08, 2004, 07:11:35 AM
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When was the last time a map was actually reset by combat?
I see a few bases getting captured but the fronts never seem to move anymore...Is this intentional by design? or have players moved away from base capture for the most part..
Base capture seems to have chenged to the point where you are forced to hord in order to capture a base.
Just an observation not designed to influence anything other then discussion..
IKON
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well, you see.. in the absence of pure #'s, i guess you quasi-military wannabes have to start using statergery and tactikery to move those fronts along.
why must "reset" be the ultimate goal, wouldn't a well executed misshun, and i mean well-executed, be a satisfying accomplishment in its own right?
death to the mindless lemming hordes!!!
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Originally posted by Shane
well, you see.. in the absence of pure #'s, i guess you quasi-military wannabes have to start using statergery and tactikery to move those fronts along.
why must "reset" be the ultimate goal, wouldn't a well executed misshun, and i mean well-executed, be a satisfying accomplishment in its own right?
death to the mindless lemming hordes!!!
What he said
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The current situation promotes the mindless hord does it not!?
Everything that has changed has promoted the hord except ENY limits.
But lately its just Ground hog day everytime I log in to the same map with the same borders +- a few token fields...
Phil Conner
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1K0N is right. Groundhog Day!
We have these large maps but what good do they really do us. We fight for the same 3-4 bases day in day out. We take it, they take it back, over and over.
Unless you have a horde moving in one direction its nearly impossible to take a field. The large missions are fun because you accomplish your goal. But going in with numbers that large its rare if you see any real action. Where is the fun in that?
Following the capture you have the enemy that sees huge Darbar and are drawn to it like flys! Then the real fight begins, keeping the field. You cant up another mission because you will pull your own Horde away from the field you just took. If you do, you run a high risk of losing the ground you just won. I believe this perpetuates the stale maps. Not saying its impossible to take fields, just that the base capure setup could use some improvement.
Wow those NOE base captures of AH1 use to be so much fun!
RHIN0
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i dont belive it... im agreeing with shane! :)
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Originally posted by Shane
why must "reset" be the ultimate goal, wouldn't a well executed misshun, and i mean well-executed, be a satisfying accomplishment in its own right?
Nope. One mission does not a game make.
One touchdown, the game is not over.
One good hand in poker and your just getting warmed up.
One succesfull mission is just that. One. Has nothing to do with the outcome or determining the winner.
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Think he said Satisfying accomplishment, not winner
and Yes I agree
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A small Squad of 10 players who enjoy drinking beer and flying for fun can no longer take a field without joining a mission/horde:
After several months they give up trying to take fields due to lack of numbers.
Why because they logged in to have fun not work 3 hours to take one airfield when the average member only logs in for 3 hours.
"quantity equals quality"
These are the same guys who have been logging in every fri, sat night since 1999, hardly short timers, more like lifers at this point.
Why should these guys be forced out of the style of play they have experienced for several years to support another style of play.
Did I just hijack my own thread?
IKON
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Lets see ...
2 bomber formations (level town)
2 110s (help with town, deack, and Cap)
2 goons
2 P-38s (VH, de-ack, Cap)
2 Spitfires (Cap)
That should do it ... only thing left is execution ... which is VERY CRITICAL.
So it's not really a numbers problem, but rather an organizational/execution matter.
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If winning the land grab is the only reason some of you are playing, then I think you are playing the wrong game.
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Originally posted by Stang
If winning the land grab is the only reason some of you are playing, then I think you are playing the wrong game.
Obviously...Its that simple!
IKON
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Lets see ...
2 bomber formations (level town)
2 110s (help with town, deack, and Cap)
2 goons
2 P-38s (VH, de-ack, Cap)
2 Spitfires (Cap)
That should do it ... only thing left is execution ... which is VERY CRITICAL.
So it's not really a numbers problem, but rather an organizational/execution matter.
Slap, two formations of lancs are not enough to take the town down
The 2 110s will go down to the first Spit that ups
That leaves you with 2 38s and 2 spits to finish the town and protect the goon.
Now, if no one ups before you get there then fine, you can take the base. If a single lala is up before you get there, forget it.
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Originally posted by Stang
If winning the land grab is the only reason some of you are playing, then I think you are playing the wrong game.
But of course the way u play MUST be the intended way? am I right?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Slap, two formations of lancs are not enough to take the town down
The 2 110s will go down to the first Spit that ups
That leaves you with 2 38s and 2 spits to finish the town and protect the goon.
Now, if no one ups before you get there then fine, you can take the base. If a single lala is up before you get there, forget it.
Ded .. we can go thru a million renditions of how it will fail and how it will work.
I said 110s will clean up the town, if the 38s and Spits that are cap know what they are doing, your Spit will not shoot down the 110s. Once the 110s are done with cleanup, they can cap too.
His point was that 10 guys could not take a base ... my point is 10 guys can take a base with good execution/timing and maybe some luck, but its not impossible ... hard, maybe, but who said it's supposed to be easy.
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Originally posted by Stang
If winning the land grab is the only reason some of you are playing, then I think you are playing the wrong game.
On second thought, you mean that for the last 5+ years people have been playing the wrong game that has a designed documented feature called field capture? thats just plain wrong!
IKON
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stang said *only* reason.
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It's doable with 10 or less if you are quick and efficient. But if you don't down the VH in the first 30 seconds and the radar shortly thereafter - forget it. And if the goon/M3 isn't already on station when the first bombs hit the town - probably forget it.
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Slappy
:aok
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if HTC maybe changed it to 150 perks each (150 fighter, 150 bomber, and 150 vehicle) there would be much more incentive to "win the war"
as it stands right now, i can earn more perks in 2 sorties in a 202 than i can being on for a "reset".
now some dont like fighting for a war, they just want to furball.... so be it. why should those who want to fight a "war" be punished into flying for furballs, when they want to work on strategy of some sort?
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The days of 2 heavy fighters flying NOE to a base (which is normaly undefended at their time of arirval) killing the town and dropping troops is gone.
It takes a bit more. Not much more mind you... But more none the less.
A few more bombs, a few more men, and a some brains is all that is needed to take a base swiftly and efficiently.
If you are running a mission, the VH and ALL ack must go down within the first moments of arrival to the base. Then let the Jabos do their work on the town and cap until troops arrive.
Its really not all that more difficult to take bases NOW in AH2 than it was back in the good 'ol days. Some just make it so.
Also, there are many more newbs in the game who havent a clue how to take a base or even cap one for that matter.
It is by no means uncommon to get to a base with 20+ fighters flying back and forth down the runways with nearly all ack up. Less than 10 minutes go by and everyone is dead. Why? Because someone was sitting in a feild ack picking one plane off after another.
A base cannot be capped with ack up and VH up. They MUST be down for an efficient cap. I almost wish HT would put that in the MOTD for the newbs. Really I do.
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Originally posted by JB73
if HTC maybe changed it to 150 perks each (150 fighter, 150 bomber, and 150 vehicle) there would be much more incentive to "win the war"
...
This is the level of discussion I wish we were having ... with HT/Pyro chiming in.
Cuz if you did make such a change it couldn't be done alone as it would seriously alter the gameplay behavior. Stuff like ENY would become crucial to maintaining balance and preventing horde-based steamrollers - it would have to be tuned and really integrated into the "wargame."
Some of the ideas folks have had such as separating towns from bases and making their seizure a requirement for base capture would have a lot of merit.
You need to harden barracks, or provide more of 'em to reduce pork-based tactics (cuz if 3 or 4 people can paralyze the front what's the point?).
And the whole Lanc/B17 dive bomber deal would have to be addressed.
Oh ... wow ... I just had an evile idea .... what if the perk bonus for winning a reset was like the lottery. So if you win on the 1st night after a reset it's 25 perks, 2nd it's 30, 3rd it's 35, etc.. So after 2 weeks it's 165 perks if you win the reset.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
This is the level of discussion I wish we were having ... with HT/Pyro chiming in.
Some of the ideas folks have had such as separating towns from bases and making their seizure a requirement for base capture would have a lot of merit.
i for one would love to see this type of gameplay over the current situation.
i think bomber pilots would become more affective and play a greater role, as well as bombing a town/city would be fun.
there would be fighter cap over bombers, "bad guys trying to killbombers/fighter cap.
land war below, tracers firing up.
just seems like this would be a more fluent environment rather than the one we have now where bases are flooded with many pilots, where as soon as you take off you find yourself completely on the defensive with no E and no alt, just easy bait.
anyway im probably just dreaming, and maybe it wouldnt turn out as good as i thought if was ever implemented, but at least would be a change from the humdrum of the MA as it is. all, Trippy
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Nope. One mission does not a game make.
One touchdown, the game is not over.
One good hand in poker and your just getting warmed up.
One succesfull mission is just that. One. Has nothing to do with the outcome or determining the winner.
Unlike hockey, where one good shot on the puck makes the game.
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"Some of the ideas folks have had such as separating towns from bases and making their seizure a requirement for base capture would have a lot of merit."
Yeah, IMHO, I think it would be a lot of fun to have map reset depend on controlling towns, not bases, and towns should be independent from bases. It would really change the game as assets were separated and now EVERYONE would have to fly a bit to attack or defend map reset assets. Kinda be more realistic for you simmy folks too.
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We have all the tools we need to play the game how we want, as with most anything- Majority wins. Currently the Majority of players are contenet to fly in the hordes & steamroll bases, rarely defending. Then numbers change & the other country steamrolls back. Hence the battle lines don't change much.
I suggest if its more strategic play you want, then organize SMALLER attack missions, if 10 skilled guys decided to work together & take bases, they could have 4 town killer planes(110/mossie), 2 goons & 4 fiters for cover, the fiters should be hvy as well. Everyone stays right with goons till target base flashes, then they all attack & hopefully have it all leveled before NME begins to defend. Goons stroll in & drop, the front moves. Best part is the base is COMPLETELY in tact. We used to do it w/ 4 guys, but the towns are much bigger now.
Anton
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Originally posted by Flyboy
i dont belive it... im agreeing with shane! :)
Death to FlyBoy, you have been poisoned by an oversized ego plug like Shane, might as well die for such a criminal act.....:rofl
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Everyone agrees with me sooner or later, maybe not in the way i might say something, but in the basic precepts of *what* i'm saying.
:aok
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Shane, the gadfly of AH :rofl
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Agree with Shane and SlapShot. :p
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Originally posted by Shane
Everyone agrees with me sooner or later, maybe not in the way i might say something, but in the basic precepts of *what* i'm saying.
:aok
Reminds me of my old Bombadier Instructor at Basic training. "I don't have to be right, I just have to say it"
...-Gixer
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Google knows what gameplay is all about:
just search for "the objective of aces high".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&q=%22the+objective+of+Aces+High.%22&btnG=Suche&lr=
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Originally posted by Shane
Everyone agrees with me sooner or later, maybe not in the way i might say something, but in the basic precepts of *what* i'm saying.
:aok
I agree with you!
and what "stang" added... after further thought...
IKON