Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on October 08, 2004, 08:01:19 PM
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Batter Up!
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Creamo: pay close attention to my words.
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here we go.
Question asked answer with something ENTIRELY different from the question
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I suspect Bush will do the same
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LOL Where is Skuzzy when you need him.
Kerry needs to be moderated for being off topic
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Hmm, this looks like it might get heated.
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Same bullcrap, different night and city.
Audience questions...yay. :rolleyes:
It's all the same...the same responses, the same jabs, the same accusations and the same rhetoric that we heard the last time. Kerry did this, Bush did that...blah blah blah.
Sidestepping questions, outright fabrications and out of context quotes...politics at its best.
Wonder how they're going to address domestic issues...
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LOL The pundets from virtually all the major networks all agree they Kerrys plan is identical to the one bush is doing. He just claims he is gonna do it faster
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First couple questions were a draw. This one I give Kerry a slight edge. He did nail Bush on the troop training. Much closer debate.
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"time for diplomacy is over"
Guess what 10-12 years of deplomacy isnt long enough
but again. Kerry.. off topic
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What do you mean off topic? He answered it directly.
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"We've got to join with the"... French??
Guess he hasnt read fully the report on Iraq
Any reason to think Iran wouldnt bribe also?
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Good question about Kerry's plan for Iran and although he did say "WE WILL GET TOUGH" still just bashed bush and now Bush is just gonna go bash Kerry with no real awnsers from either. HAHA does Kerry realize that we have the thousands of troops in Iraq so they have a nice staging area for Iran.
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Originally posted by rpm
What do you mean off topic? He answered it directly.
the topic was about the distain other countries have for us.
and about diplomacy.
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bush just raped kerry on iran/nkorea.
THAT is the issue.
and man bush is kicking bellybutton imo :)
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When is the Pissing Contest part of the debate, seems like it would fit in well. Although I am very glad to see that it really is a debate this time not a mutal press conference.
Ok im pretty sure no matter what the question is these two dolts are gonna start talking about Iraq. I mean someone could get up ask "How are you going to help with natural disasters such as hurricanes"
Bush would say "Well with Saddam and his regime used to create hurricanes so with him out of power there will be less hurricanes, oh and dont forget that we got the poles with us so we can send them in too break the storm up"
Kerry would say "The president has sent all of our young boys too die in the hurricane that is the Iraq war"
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Bush's temper is going to prove Kerry's point.
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they are a little more angry than I thought they would be. If Bush don't run out of gas he seems the more on top of what is happening..
lazs
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kerry was winning that one till he claimed his plan was better.
His plan is the exact same plan as bush cept to get french involvement.
Something the french have stated they wont do
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Bridges and tunnels that arent secure?
guess he hasnt tried to drive from NJ to NYC lately
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john hienz-kerry says he wants 40,000 new troops but he is against the draft, so where is he going to get 40,000 new troops, the french foreign legion?
john heinz-kerry is for the draft.
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Originally posted by john9001
john hienz-kerry says he wants 40,000 new troops but he is against the draft, so where is he going to get 40,000 new troops, the french foreign legion?
john heinz-kerry is for the draft.
exactly. And how are you gonna convince that many people to join the military when you say we're involved in the wrong war?
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I'm positive the last thing Kerry is for is a draft.
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haha there is no way that guy who brought upt he drug question actually came up with it. I mean he stumbled over the whole thing, can you say staged lol christ I jush with these politicans would realize that we want to see the canidates. We dont want to see the canidates how they want us too see them. I want to see dumb and dumber here stand in a real town hall and awnser whatever the hell people want to ask them.
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on drugs(medicine)
Point Kerry
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Originally posted by rpm
I'm positive the last thing Kerry is for is a draft.
huuuuh uh:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by RTStuka
haha there is no way that guy who brought upt he drug question actually came up with it. I mean he stumbled over the whole thing, can you say staged lol christ I jush with these politicans would realize that we want to see the canidates. We dont want to see the canidates how they want us too see them. I want to see dumb and dumber here stand in a real town hall and awnser whatever the hell people want to ask them.
agreed
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
on drugs(medicine)
Point Kerry
I agree, although bush did a good job in response with the clinton bash but point still goes too Kerry.
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Score Kerry on Medicare. Nice jab on the deficit. too.
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Originally posted by rpm
I'm positive the last thing Kerry is for is a draft.
john heinz-kerry has already said his is for the draft , but that was before he was against the draft.
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Id love too see Bush just lose it and tackle kerry, I would then base my vote on whoever wont he ensuing fight.
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I KNOW one of the big reasons for the rise in healthcare.
I've seen it first hand.
WASTE and mismanagement by the healthcare industry
something thats gonna be hard for either side to regulate
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Batting 0 for 2. He hurt Bush.
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"Should have showed up on the floor in the senate to vote on it then"
WHOAAA!!!
point bush
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Originally posted by rpm
Batting 0 for 2. He hurt Bush.
Ok call that one a draw due to Bush responce
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
"Should have showed up on the floor in the senate to vote on it then"
WHOAAA!!!
point bush
LOL that was great, he got him on that one.
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if we could base anything on whats being posted here would haveta say these debates are declinging in interest with the population
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Does Kerry realize that he is part of that top 1%, I bet he is gonna be pissed when he finds out hes complaing about his own tax cuts hahaha.
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Score Charlie Gibson.
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1% of amercia EARNED and paid into the tax system that much more
So simple logic would indicate they they would get more then the others.
If everyone were taxed 25%
someone who made $100 would certainly pay in and get back more then the ones that made $10
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Originally posted by rpm
Score Charlie Gibson.
Yup LOL
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"I am not going to raise taxes"
Havent we heard something similar to this before somewhere?
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"I heard you both say that you would cut the deficit in half over the next 4 years, but in the last 3.5 minutes I didnt hear either of you say anything about how you are going to do that.
Gibson just won the debate, im voting for him.
P.S.-The next person who causes Kerry to look directly into the camera and get a close up should be taken out back and beaten severly.
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He could not bring himself to answer the "look in the camera and swear".
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cc stuka, i think my hamster just had a heart attack.
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Glad I have 2 tvs close.
Mr Wizard reruns on Science channel
Im getting comedy one on and learning something educational on the other lmao
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what is "battling green eye shades"?
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That may be Kerry's "Make it or Break it" of the election. Bush's response just soundy rambling and whiney. Is he a Rook?
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Think "W" might turn to Kerry and say,
I"M RICK JAMES BIOTCH
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"You can run but you cant hide"
Hmmmmmmmmmmm I almost wanna give Bush the Point for this one. But her comes the evironmental questions, could be ugly.
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(u rule, doobs)
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Accountants, Nash.
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Keryy has one problem going.
Bush is comming across as being more likeable
Kerry is comming across as a lawyer.
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of course, after the debate is over all america will tune to the Daily Show to receive the digested bits with laugh tracks (so people can 'grok' it).
:p :aok
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Originally posted by OIO
of course, after the debate is over all america will tune to the Daily Show to receive the digested bits with laugh tracks (so people can 'grok' it).
:p :aok
But of course!:cool:
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rgr Liz - tnks
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Originally posted by OIO
of course, after the debate is over all america will tune to the Daily Show to receive the digested bits with laugh tracks (so people can 'grok' it).
:p :aok
and of course soem people are gonna take what they do there seriously LOL
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Originally posted by doobs
Think "W" might turn to Kerry and say,
I"M RICK JAMES BIOTCH
:rofl
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Originally posted by doobs
Think "W" might turn to Kerry and say,
I"M RICK JAMES BIOTCH
Thats what im saying man, these two truly and honestly hate each other so much, I could def. see one of them taking a swing at the other.
LOL I can hear bush now as he is on top of kerry punching him.
"Lets see how many purple hearts you get for this biotch"
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envorinment..draw
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ouch...Bush did it... he brought out the fact that kerries record shows him to be the most... and we use the L word here... the most liberal senator EVAH..
lazs
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Score Kerry again on environment. If Bush had left environment alone , it would be in better shape. He also walked from Kyoto instead of continuing negotiations.
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Only see one Question that matters.
Do ya want to put two lawyers in the White House?
Secretary of State Johnnie Cochran
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Tax cradit for Cos that stay here??
His wife is gonna biotch slap him for that
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Audience Member Question: Sen Kerry, how would you..................
Kerry Answer: Here is what the President has done wrong..........
Kerry does his dance, never actually answers a question.
Q:What does Kerry say about everything?
A: I have a plan! (mythical or unworkable, but he has a "plan") How about for once explaining one of those plans, dont make us hunt to find if he really has one.
What a sickening ****.
dago
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john heinz-kerry has been in the senate for 20 years but NOW he wants to close LOOPHOLES.........oh brother.
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Insurence for small buisnesses
Im in TOTAL agreement with bush here
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I fall into that catagory
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"Need some wood"
I dont care about content, first reaction I hear out of the crown tonight, bush scored alot of points on that one, fact or not he came off alot more down to earth.
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LOL Got wood? This could be good.
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im no kerry fan but his plans are on his website. its kinda hard to explain all those pages into just 30 seconds on tv.
oh.. and FLIPFLOP on outsourcing for kerry.
LOL bush almost whacked kerry for the personal attack on the small bussiness/wood company + cheney comment.
I almost started... JERRY ! JERRY! JERRY! ;)
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yep... if kerrie needs to look human... he is failing.
lazs
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Kerry may win a point on this one.
I dont like the Patriot act either
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I fall into that catagory
ME too !
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hmm kerry just scored a big one on bush on the patriot act part.
both are right yet kerry's point about the constitution is 100% correct.
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Kerry is looking good. But then I'm biased.
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Ok, who do you think would be better in bed, Laura Bush or Teresa Heinz Kerry, I think I gotta go with Larua on this one.
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Stem Cell.. tough one
for both parties
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Kerry- "If I'm elected there will be Ketchup on every table, no child will have to live without condiments, which will help the American family, which my good friends Big Bird and Elmo both agree with me on" did I mention I also know Barney
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Ok, who do you think would be better in bed, Laura Bush or Teresa Heinz Kerry, I think I gotta go with Larua on this one.
Don't knock a Eurochick, till you've knocked one.:aok
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"the Balance between ethics and science"
Is a really good arguement
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Bush lost that one.
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Slavery? WTF?:confused:
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Originally posted by rpm
Don't knock a Eurochick, till you've knocked one.:aok
Does a canadian count? lol
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Ok, who do you think would be better in bed, Laura Bush or Teresa Heinz Kerry, I think I gotta go with Larua on this one.
couldnt I just become Asexual instead?
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Originally posted by rpm
Slavery? WTF?:confused:
HEY HEY HEY, just be thankfull we have not had to hear about Iraq for a good long while. lol
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
couldnt I just become Asexual instead?
HAHAHA good awnser, but tell me you wouldnt want the Bush daughters tag teaming you.
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Originally posted by rpm
Bush lost that one.
assuming you mean stemcell.
i respectfully dissagree.
But thatis a subject thats gonna be a sharp division between groups anyway
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judge the consitution according to the law? is'nt that a bit backwards?
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Originally posted by RTStuka
HEY HEY HEY, just be thankfull we have not had to hear about Iraq for a good long while. lol
Good point. Bush seemed a little "Deer in the headlights" on that one. Point Kerry.
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Alter Boy that explains the part
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Originally posted by RTStuka
HAHAHA good awnser, but tell me you wouldnt want the Bush daughters tag teaming you.
LOL well you didnt give me that option now did you?
I hadta go with the options I had :)
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Kerry was an alter boy :rofl :rofl :rofl
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actually both of them have the same stand on the stem cell research.
Go ahead with it, but do not cross the ethical line.
and neither of them bothered to define the ethical line.
draw. inconclusive.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LOL well you didnt give me that option now did you?
I hadta go with the options I had :)
Good point Drediock, I should have included that into the originall options.
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Originally posted by rpm
LOL Got wood? This could be good.
(http://members.cox.net/wjernst/bush1.jpg)
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"We're not going to spend taxpayers money on abortion"
I am pro (womans)choice but I wholehearedly agree with that statement
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Originally posted by schizer
(http://members.cox.net/wjernst/bush1.jpg)
:rofl
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ROFL:rofl
sounds like Enzite commercial, Happy Laura Bush smiling and W with the hand wave that enzite works.
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Yeah, they aren't going to change anyones abortion views. Draw on this one.
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yep
and parental notifacation
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Abortions gonna be a draw. wont sway anyminds on either side of the issue
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Originally posted by rpm
Yeah, they aren't going to change anyones abortion views. Draw on this one.
I agree RPM, this is one subject where people are clearly on one side or the other, useless to argue about it. Either way your gonna lose votes too the other side on this one.
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so far kerry is doing ok but I have bush ahead on both style and substance
His pointing out Kerrys voting record is hurting Kerry big time
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Great question about the wrong decisions but I dont think we are gonna get a real awnser on this one.
Edit: Bush did a little better than I thought, admitted to some bad appointment decisions and also said he is ready to accept full responsiblity on some things. But I still think he ducked out of the way for the most part. Now we gotta listen to Frankentkerry talk about Iraq again.
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uh oh bush left himself open on this one
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not real , but was real good
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I still say 10+ years of UN diplomacy isnt a "rush"
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and Kerry responds by leaving HIMSELF wide open.
LMAO
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Kerry Last resort = wait till I'm out of office to take care of it.
And what is the last resort when Americans are dying on American soil or when the UN says its ok to take action.
either way is unaccecptable to me
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I see a bush win on this one (the debate)
Remember I did say kerry won the last one
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Well with this wrapping up Id like to thank everyone for a nice level headed dissucsion about the debate. Its obvious everyone has their opionons but everyone here tonight was willing to look at both sides and be honest about what the awnsers sounded like. Its been a true pleasure.
Oh and Dred, id def. do some tag team action with the bush girls lol
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yeah kerry totally blew it on the last question.
and now he FLIP FLOPS in the closing statement.
he says wont give veto on us foreign policy to foreign nations. LMAO this guy should be on comedy central.
edit:
holy cow bush's closing statement was awesome.
chimpy go gorilla in the last 2 minutes :eek:
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Oh and Dred, id def. do some tag team action with the bush girls lol [/B]
toal agreement
Hands down. and up, and all around LMAO
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Originally posted by OIO
LMAO this guy should be on comedy central. [/B]
he wil be. only thing is they will paint hm as a genius
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Bush did much better than last time, but I got to give Kerry the edge again.
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"Mr. President, you've made thousands of decisions affecting millions of people. Please name three decisions that were wrong and what you did to correct them."
Blah blah blah blah I've never made a bad decision blah blah blah.
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Terriable Ted and his ten fingers of Doom !!!!
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Debate ends, and Kerry wins again....
2 strikes and yer out.
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Originally posted by rpm
Bush did much better than last time, but I got to give Kerry the edge again.
On a technicall level Kerry seemed to have the edge, But bush seemed to just come out stronger because he was so comfortable and really seemed to be at home. Content wise I think they both spouted the same things we heard for the past few months, I didnt hear anything I didnt expect to hear. So frankly I think that this debate came down too who sounded better and didnt sound like he was in a trial and I think bush Won that. I do think Kerry did a good job as far as being very straight forward and being direct but it sounded way too planned. This kind of set up allowed for bushes poor poor public speaking skills to work in his advantage because he seemed more down to earth.
EDIT: Why do they have to go and interview these stupid brainwashed morons after the debates. First they go too one of the campaign idiots then they go to the other sides idiot. I mean whats the point all they are going to say is "OH he dominated, he did great, hes awesome, hes better than him." Do these guys have to sign papers that allow them to be bent over a chair and spanked repeadetly from their respective party.
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I dunno. Bush had a couple of significant stumbles. His closing statement was good, but they have been writing it for a week. On content he just seemed lost at times. Still, it was a much closer debate.
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Bottom Line all these Debates are nothing more than there own political commercials. The only difference being is its live and both candidates are in the same room. Other than that its the same old party line rhetorhic. It's like watching the WWE, scripted , rehearsed and well planned. Was waiting for Al Gore to run onto podium with the football and slam Bush in the back of the head all the while the rest of the Democratic wrestlers beat down "W" . Then when all hope was lost ,......wait is it , it is here come Rudy and McCain to rescue "W".
We were at one point in time worried about actors becoming politicians , I think a bigger worry now is that Politicians are becoming entertainers.
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WWE, is just a soap opera for ghey men.
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Originally posted by rpm
I dunno. Bush had a couple of significant stumbles. His closing statement was good, but they have been writing it for a week. On content he just seemed lost at times. Still, it was a much closer debate.
HAHAHA yeah that makes sense about the spinners.......... I would agree with you about the content RPM, kerry did sound better and had more. My point was just that I felt that I could have said exactly what either canidate was going to awnser before they did. What I mean is that it was nothing new or exciting, thats why I had to look for something different to base the win on and I thought if you look at who was more human or likeable bush won that. We all know who wins on certain topics because both have their strong points so the debate really doesnt change that much.
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Originally posted by Sandman
"Mr. President, you've made thousands of decisions affecting millions of people. Please name three decisions that were wrong and what you did to correct them."
Blah blah blah blah I've never made a bad decision blah blah blah.
You weren't listening. He admitted he'd made some appointments he had to correct.
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LOL is anyone watching CNN while they do the whole audience reaction thing, HAHAHAHA what will they come up with next. Does anyone know how they collect this data real time to be able to creat this freaking thing.
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Debate ends, and Kerry wins again....
Oh, I don't know, the talking heads seem to be giving Bush the win.
I think Nash, you are seeing what you want to see.
dago
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torque... he was talking to you... he asked if you needed wood.
lazs
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Originally posted by AKIron
You weren't listening. He admitted he'd made some appointments he had to correct.
Fair enough... one down, two to go. ;)
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Biggest opportunity missed:
"HELLO CLEVELAND!"
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Bush's response to Kerry's tap dance on the abortion question was pretty funny. I think he should have applauded him. Kerry wins on theatrics, Bush on substance. Hmmmm, I'll go with substance.
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Woohoo I managed to miss this one too!
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DING DING DING!
...and the (unscientific) results are in...
CNN
President Bush 16% 4949 votes
John Kerry 83% 26448 votes
Fox
a. President Bush 30% 4,328
b. Senator Kerry 70% 10,301
:)
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I agree nobody was going to pull a rabbit out of their *** tonight. My analysis:
Bush seemed a bit less composed than Kerry, he lost his cool at times and had that "deer in the headlights" moment. Overall it was a much better performance than his last, but no better than a B.
Kerry also failed to say anything new, but he was sharp. He did have the one moment during the stem cell answer where he was searching for words, but the answer still was effective. Kerry didn't take any damage this round. Overall preformance A-.
No Jon Stewart tonight. Bill Mahr is on HBO tho.
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what bush has done wrong in the mind of the libs, M. Moore-on style
not on ANYTHING skerry has done right for his 20 years in Senate
mr hot-air gas bag hindsight 20/20 herman "I have a plan"
LOL LOL LOL
my gosh, are ppl really THAT STUPID????
seems so....
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Originally posted by lazs2
torque... he was talking to you... he asked if you needed wood.
lazs
Laz, gettting all worked up over politics and manly women, you're a hoot.
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Originally posted by 1K3
DING DING DING!
...and the (unscientific) results are in...
CNN
President Bush 16% 4949 votes
John Kerry 83% 26448 votes
Fox
a. President Bush 30% 4,328
b. Senator Kerry 70% 10,301
:)
HAHAHA!
Do the liberals have little IM parties where they get together and all go vote at the same time?
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i guess 1 user can only vote 1 time
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RPM I do believe after reading your comments you're awfully quick on the trigger to say 'yay Kerry' but you did say you're biased.
I liked a few things Bush said. The first is his response to the draft question, "No Draft" was the answer and millions of people just heard him say it. Also, he said he will not spend any tax dollars on abortion. Bravo, excellent decision. I think he beat Kerry during the talks about Iran and North Korea. I also think he did a good job with the stem cell issues. He may be against it, but he allowed some research to take place. He gave them funding to see how things went, but clearly allowed it to go only so far.
I vote for a president based on what his stance on issues is, and with Bush you know where he stands. He has the resolve to see the course of a decision and he is not afraid to order a bomb onto someone who would do harm to our country. I like that. Whether or not we should've, could've or would've gone to war with Kerry is not the issue. Beating that dead horse does nobody any good. Bottom line is there are Iraqis over there who have a taste of freedom, something they never had in their lives.
I have an analogy on why the Iraq issues simply need time to run their course. I believe freedom will prevail and it's only a matter of time before those terrorsists are no longer safe in that country. Not from U.S. soldiers with .223 rounds, but from their neighbors.
Here is my analogy. We are all warbird, aviation and history enthusiasts. Lets say that suddenly, your favorite airplane was given to you for no other reason than someone felt that you deserve it. You'd look at the airplane, jump up and down and be very happy that you have your dream machine. But then, that wears off because you don't know how to get it started, get it moving and take it off. You need someone to teach you all the things that it is capable of. In the case of having a democracy, it will take time for the Iraqis to learn all the great things a democracy is capable of doing.
I don't agree with everything our government does regarding issues, nobody ever agrees with everyone because you can't please everyone all the time. I choose not to agree with Kerry saying this is the wrong war, wrong place and wrong time. So what? What we have to do now is help the Iraqi people get on their feet, show them what they are capable of and use the resources at hand to make themselves a respected and proud nation of the world. Everything Bush has done I feel is a step in the right direction for Iraq, and it will take time to see it through to the end. Freedom isn't free, but I can think of no nobler cause than giving freedom to millions of people.
Bush gets my vote because I trust him to make the decisions that are best for our country and our new friends in Iraq. I hope I was not the only one cheering for the Iraqi soccer team in the olympics. I'd also like people to keep in mind about Kerry and his 'popularity' among global leaders. What is popular is not always right, and what is right is not always popular. I think President Bush made the right decision taking Saddam out of power and I will continue to support him because I can trust him to do what is best for America.
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If I may be so bold as to offer a sort of baseline... Much like in the VP debates...
People ONLY needed to see a viable alternative.
None of this stem cell crap, none of this abortion chit...
You think people are really hung up on this stuff?
No - they just needed to see a viable alternative.
That was done.
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Well with this wrapping up Id like to thank everyone for a nice level headed dissucsion about the debate. Its obvious everyone has their opionons but everyone here tonight was willing to look at both sides and be honest about what the awnsers sounded like. Its been a true pleasure.
BTW agree on this as well.
Well done by all participents
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Originally posted by rpm
I agree nobody was going to pull a rabbit out of their *** tonight. My analysis:
Bush seemed a bit less composed than Kerry, he lost his cool at times and had that "deer in the headlights" moment. Overall it was a much better performance than his last, but no better than a B.
Kerry also failed to say anything new, but he was sharp. He did have the one moment during the stem cell answer where he was searching for words, but the answer still was effective. Kerry didn't take any damage this round. Overall preformance A-.
No Jon Stewart tonight. Bill Mahr is on HBO tho.
Very good analysis RPM, you make very strong points. I can see where you come up with your performance grades.
EDIT: Oh and im a republican and a bush fan, but I have the ablity too see both sides and be intelligant and what you have said makes sense regardless of my beliefs.
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You are wrong Nash. There are a whole lot of people that vote those issues only.
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Originally posted by Nash
If I may be so bold as to offer a sort of baseline... Much like in the VP debates...
People ONLY needed to see a viable alternative.
None of this stem cell crap, none of this abortion chit...
You think people are really hung up on this stuff?
No - they just needed to see a viable alternative.
That was done.
Stem cell isnt a big issue for me nor is abortion though in some cercles I know ini RL it is a make or break issue.
I dont see kerry as having done a single thing to help himself tonight.
couple minor issues maybe but nothing thats gonna cause people to see him as the "Viable alternative"
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Any objectivity by ABC moderator Charles Gibson was lost with his selection of the loaded last question to President Bush about what his "three greatest mistakes" were. Talk about a guaranteed negative downer conclusion, and with Kerry getting the last word on rebuttal too.
Like any reasonably trained debater, Bush justifiably dodged that barb. Such amateurish bias qualifies Gibson for a role in Moore's next movie.
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Okay....
.5% of the population is hung up on it.
It's a forest for the trees type thing.
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I think the wood comment was actually a great score for Bush but im thinking thats going to come back to kick him in the arse in the end.
My take on this year election is this, I wish Bush and Edwards could run together, frankly I hate Cheney. I do believe he is crooked and could cause alot of trouble. I like bush but I think he needs a stronger cabinet. I dont like Kerry because in my own opinion I dont feel that he will make any drastic changes and we are going to ahve to deal with the transition period. I think Bush at least as the ablitiy to continue on is tract and try to fix his mistakes which is possible. Frankly I like Edwards and wanted him to get the nod from the Dems, I think he would have been alot like clinton, I think he would have gotten the job done and still kept everyone happy.
Notice i used the words I THINK alot, thats because this is what I believe and I know its not what everyone else thinks and thats what makes this country great is that people can think and believe in whatever they want.
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Three points
1. Why does Bush have to give three decisions he regrets and Kerry doesn’t have to give his three, he just got 90 sec. to restate his case from the last question?
2. Kerry gives credit to the commander of the airwar GW1 for doing a good job to a war he voted against. Why with a UN resolution to go to war with the collation that he keeps touting (GW1) he votes against it and Bush doesn’t Jap slap him with it. Lost chance.
3. We know Kerry is a great debater maybe a master debater that’s a given, I think Bush was much better tonight and Kerry was stiff (want wood) and lawyer like.
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Wrong, buddy, my guess is about 30% of the voters vote it as primary issue.
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Bush won on style... Kerry kicked bellybutton on substance. I call it a draw.
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Originally posted by Dago
Oh, I don't know, the talking heads seem to be giving Bush the win.
I think Nash, you are seeing what you want to see.
dago
I think both sides are going ot see what they wanna see.
I treid looking at both these debates fairly.
Like i said I agree Kerry won last one.
I still see bush as having one this one
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On a scale of 10, Bush 7, Kerry 5.
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Originally posted by Halo
On a scale of 10, Bush 7, Kerry 5.
Tyra, 10
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041008/capt.nyet19210081923.fashion_diamond_bra_nyet192.jpg)
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Golfer, you have a good arguement. But I see it from a different standpoint. Yes, we are in Iraq and we now HAVE to be in it for the long haul. The management of this is VERY important we have to (to bring up an old phrase) win the hearts and minds of the Islam's. This is an almost impossible task for anyone. I think Kerry's idea of allowing other nations to participate in the reconstruction is a good idea. Let the Iraqi's see it's not just America trying to muscle in and take over their homes. It could be much more diversified than it is.
Bush jumped the gun on Iraq. We should have crushed OBL before looking elsewhere. We would have had a much stronger position in the view of other nations. Now, because Bush rushed to war without a plan for reconstruction (I'm sorry 1-800-Halliburton does not count) insurgents formed war parties, recruited new members and are waging a campaign of terror by proxy. I just think there could have been a better way to handle Iraq without helping Al-Queda spread anti-americanism.
It is a very complex issue.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Tyra, 10
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041008/capt.nyet19210081923.fashion_diamond_bra_nyet192.jpg)
agreed
11 if she....s.....
Nevermind:D
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I was impressed by Kerry's Iran plan if sanctions didn't work which was a replica or his Iraq plan which is get together in a summit and do nothing but appear very busy.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
I was impressed by Kerry's Iran plan if sanctions didn't work which was a replica or his Iraq plan which is get together in a summit and do nothing but appear very busy.
I still wanna know how he plans to entice tens of thousands of people to join the military while at the same time saying "we're in the wrong war"
Even if he were to personally lead the way himself into combat I wouldnt follow.
A summet with who?
The very people Iran is likely to bribe as Saddam did?
If memory serves correct we already have our own sanctions on Iran.
Unfortunately they dont work very well because nobody else is supporting them.
Same direction the Iraq situation was headed.
Much to Clintons credit he didnt take the bribes France,Germany, Russia, China were taking .
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I only got to see it in pieces on the internet.
Bush was better prepared then last time or does better in that kind of format.
I liked Kerry better but I doubt anyone was swayed by this one.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
If memory serves correct we already have our own sanctions on Iran.
Unfortunately they dont work very well because nobody else is supporting them.
Including Halliburton.
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Originally posted by rpm
Including Halliburton.
Has ties with Iran?
Do tell
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Has ties with Iran?
Do tell
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3908753.stm
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Just courious, anyone else notice the lack of indignation in trhe media about the corruption in the UN? Wonder why that is?
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Bush won the debate.
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Originally posted by Nash
what is "battling green eye shades"?
didn't get that myself.
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Originally posted by Sandman
"Mr. President, you've made thousands of decisions affecting millions of people. Please name three decisions that were wrong and what you did to correct them."
Blah blah blah blah I've never made a bad decision blah blah blah.
Yeah, ask Kerry that question and see what you get.
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dunno tweety. Proffessional courtesy? ;)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Bush won on style... Kerry kicked bellybutton on substance. I call it a draw.
Wha???
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11 if she....s.....
Dred, tag her an 11, I can tell you that she does.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
Just courious, anyone else notice the lack of indignation in trhe media about the corruption in the UN? Wonder why that is?
Wondering the same thing, After thinking about it I have a guess but it would leave me WIDE open to attack here without any proof
But lets just say my "guess" if correct would make any Halliburten type scandal look like jaywalking in comparison
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Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, ask Kerry that question and see what you get.
LOL his answer would depend on which group he was talking to
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for skerry to implement half of what he has promised is impossible even if he raised taxes 50%
so that leave him raising taxes as he promises to do which will kill small biz grow, reducing jobs, stalling the economy and without the funds to provide a tenth of his promises
(all the while reducing the deficit - right)
hot-air gas bag lib
oh, and i guess he'll just crap out the additional soldiers he is going to shore Iraq with and double doo any he'll need to send into Iran and NK when they tell him to stuff it up his herman arse
"I want to talk about my plan"
LOL LOL LOL
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Originally posted by NUKE
didn't get that myself.
green eye shades. What the bean counters of yore wore. Those little tennis cap things, only clear green.
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Originally posted by Steve
Dred, tag her an 11, I can tell you that she does.
Oh my!
Too few of them in the world
Hell too few 5's willing to become a 6 for that matter
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Originally posted by Sandman
"Mr. President, you've made thousands of decisions affecting millions of people. Please name three decisions that were wrong and what you did to correct them."
Blah blah blah blah I've never made a bad decision blah blah blah.
Bush should have started with, "Well, #1, I traded Sammy Sosa..."
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Originally posted by rpm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3908753.stm
I will read it later. Wanna get a few flights in tonight first
but I will read it
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Originally posted by Martlet
green eye shades. What the bean counters of yore wore. Those little tennis cap things, only clear green.
I kind of thought that he meant something like that, just based on the context.....but I had never heard that term before.
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Originally posted by Eagler
for skerry to implement half of what he has promised is impossible even if he raised taxes 50%
Well as opposed to the logic of overspending which Bush has already done and is not able to pay for.
so that leave him raising taxes as he promises to do which will kill small biz grow, reducing jobs, stalling the economy and without the funds to provide a tenth of his promises
(all the while reducing the deficit - right)
His tax policy will not affect most small busineses. I cant remember exact figure but if I do I'll post it. Also his tax policy is not just a simple tax to the rich but included tax breaks etc... that will affect domestic businesses. Its a more precise and correct tax plan and its long overdue.
oh, and i guess he'll just crap out the additional soldiers he is going to shore Iraq with and double doo any he'll need to send into Iran and NK when they tell him to stuff it up his herman arse
"I want to talk about my plan"
Theres no way the US could attempt to go into NK or Iran rightnow since its committed to the situation in Iraq. We dealt with Iraq first based on numerous criteria of supposed threat and they all just about turned out to be wrong.
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uh?
you don't think most "small businesses" gross >$200K?
sure they do, any with any number of employees .. not talkin about the card table at the flea market "small biz" or ur ebay "small biz" but the businesses which are the cornerstone to this economic recovery
skerry will tax them out of business or force them to down size, read cut jobs while forcing them to raise prices
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Bush won on style... Kerry kicked bellybutton on substance. I call it a draw.
Kerry seemed very pompous and errogant (sp) tonite. Bush did a little better than the last time with his demeaner....but just something about Kerry really pissed me off.....kinda like he was talking down the whole time.
I'd have to say it was a pretty even draw......nothing new out of Kerry. A couple of contradictions from him.
Better performance from Bush....again nothing new here.
EDIT:
I honestly think if Bush was coming off of a win from the last debate he would have been considered the loser tonite.
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I saw Bush as the clear winner.
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To me Bush won this one but lost first debate. So this makes it a draw.
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Kerry won.
It was a draw if you factor in history, the expectations game, the pandering to either the center or your core, or of style vs substance.
That's totally not what this debate means.
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Bush beat Kerry bad. You could see Kerry wilt right in front of you.
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What's with people and all the references to "wilting" today? Is this about some national US holiday I'm not aware of?
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Originally posted by Nash
Kerry won.
It was a draw if you factor in history, the expectations game, the pandering to either the center or your core, or of style vs substance.
That's totally not what this debate means.
But, Bush still won.
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Overall I thought Kerry did better and though Bush did perform better than his original debute this year, I dont think he could keep up with Kerry. After watching this last debate I understand now why I find a liking to Kerry. Its based on logic and Kerry says and has the right agenda that makes the logic cells in my brain spark.
For example, Bushs stance on stem cell research is more based on his own rational of preserving life based on his faith. I can respect that except the cells in question are frozen and if not used will probably be thrown away. Wheres the logic in that?
Bush overspends and cuts back on internal domestic issues and then gives a passive tax break to the wealthiest. How do you spend and give tax breaks, theres no logic to it. Is that suppose to have cured the ressession and create jobs. Look at the job figures, it hasnt.
And of course the entire Iraq debate. He went into Iraq under supposed threats from Sadam, non of which turned out to be true. No wmd or nuclear programs, no links to A-Q. That was the original reason for going into Iraq. Over eleven hundred soldiers have lost their lives. And lets be real about this. A-Q are not operating in Iraq as their focus of operations. They cells are hidden around the world so as to survive and not be caught. The only people resisting in Iraq are insurgents groups who are sympathetic to Iraqs fight against invading foreigners and the Iraqis themselves.
I cant help but to notice these and other statements and claims such as Kerry is weak on defense. Factcheck.orq clearly shows his voting record and the years he voted against military spending post cold war. They even drew similar comparisons to Bush sr who cut military spending by 30% so is Bush sr weak on defense.
I would consider not attending your intelligence meetings for the first eight months of office weak on defense. I consider two airliners crashing into the two world trade centers weak on defense. I also consider presenting incorrect facts on Iraq as a valid threat weak on defence. The hard line voters are going to vote for whomever regardless of logical thinking and relying ont he news to give a fair analysis is like shooting yourself in the head for the answers. I havent seen them more biased then ever but I expected it nearing the election. About the only fair and resonable news channel left is CNN.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Overall I thought Kerry did better and though Bush did perform better than his original debute this year, I dont think he could keep up with Kerry. After watching this last debate I understand now why I find a liking to Kerry. Its based on logic and Kerry says and has the right agenda that makes the logic cells in my brain spark.
Kerry and logic are two different things. What has Kerry ever done that you agree with?
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gives a passive tax break to the wealthiest
Don't get caught up in liberal speak. You can only give tax breaks to people who actually pay taxes.
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He voted to balance the budget in the early 90s. He voted to cancel production of B-2s. We have enough B-2s and more numbers are only needed for a full scale war against the soviet union. In limited campaigns of today, we have enough B-2s. Those are some examples.
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Originally posted by Steve
Don't get caught up in liberal speak. You can only give tax breaks to people who actually pay taxes.
Everybody who works pays taxes, even people in the military pay taxes.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
He voted to balance the budget in the early 90s. He voted to cancel production of B-2s. We have enough B-2s and more numbers are only needed for a full scale war against the soviet union. In limited campaigns of today, we have enough B-2s. Those are some examples.
So you back Kerry?
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lol, yes.
:rolleyes:
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According to the poll on Yahoo!:
Question: Who Won the Oct. 8 Presidential Debate?
210709 votes since Oct 7 2004
Bush 33% 68988 votes
Kerry 64% 134446 votes
Tie 4% 7275 votes
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Yes, gladly.
:rolleyes:
Then you backed Kerry when he voted to use force in Iraq? You backed Kerry when he said that he was glad Saddam was out of power and that the Iraq war was the right thing to do?
You back Kerry when he says he thinks it's wrong to send troops into Iraq without proper equipment, then votes against funding the troops?
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According to CNN:
Who won the second presidential debate?
President Bush
20%
61525 votes
John Kerry
78%
236047 votes
Evenly matched
2%
6559 votes
Total: 304131 votes
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Originally posted by NUKE
Then you backed Kerry when he voted to use force in Iraq? You backed Kerry when he said that he was glad Saddam was out of power and that the Iraq war was the right thing to do?
You back Kerry when he says he thinks it's wrong to send troops into Iraq without proper equipment, then votes against funding the troops?
He voted to give Bush authorization however Bush as the president has 60 days to do whatever he wants militarly. Bush presented his case then carried out his plans.
I think Kerry covered that in the debate today. he said he wanted the people to pay for it and not pass it along to the next generation. Sounds reasonable. Maybe what Bush is doing seems so great because everything he does is being passed on to the next generation.
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
He voted to give Bush authorization however Bush as the president has 60 days to do whatever he wants militarly. Bush presented his case then carried out his plans.
Second issue, Kerry covered that himself in the debate today. he said he wanted the people to pay for it and not pass it along to the next generation. Sounds reasonable. Maybe what Bush is doing seems so great because everything he does is being passed on to the next generation.
ummmm, okay.
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I think it was a close debate and these numbers are very early. Give it a day or 2 and we will see if either gained any ground. The guys screaming "Landslide Bush" either didn't watch the debate or didn't pay attention. There was no clear win by either candidate tonight.
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Dont mean to be bashing on Bush so much. I just got back from starbucks.
:D
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for those posting 'poll' results from internet votes and such about who won...heres one from AOL
Who won the debate?
John Kerry 52%
George Bush 48%
Which ticket is faring better in the debates overall?
Kerry-Edwards 54%
Bush-Cheney 46%
Total Votes: 357,537
completely unscientific but i'd call it pretty damn square. I saw Kerry foundering tonight, he always talked about his plan. He only talked about his plan. In fact, I'm starting to get sick of the word plan. When it comes right down to it and Joe American is standing in the voting booth, he votes for his gut instinct on who he thinks is best. Best of luck to both sides but for the sake of America...vote Bush.
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There was no "clear" win...
But there was a big, big, huge win nonetheless. The kind of win where folks suddenly think something, but have no idea why.
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Originally posted by Nash
There was no "clear" win...
But there was a big, big, huge win nonetheless. The kind of win where folks suddenly think something, but have no idea why.
Too true. I think this one may have some long term effect.
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Who liked Kerry's response to the question, what would you do if Iran didn't respond to sanctions? In fact , who can transalate what he said? I heard, " well I'd talk to other countries and I'd get tough on them." Anyone actually hear his plan? I 'm serious, I missed it. I know his response was 90% another issue and only the last couple of sentences had to do with Iran - and they said nothing. I guess that counts as a "I dunno." But that Iran thing is a real problem in the next 4 years.
In fact I can you tell you many things Kerry says not to do, but other than talking to other countires in some type of coca cola commercial (I'd like to teach the world to sing....) I've heard NO PLAN.
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Tweety... do you recall spending the last two weeks complaining like an old woman that you didn't understand a damn thing Bush was ever trying to say? "Convoluted" comes to mind.
Now you're saying it about Kerry...
Do you understand... anyone?
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Tweety, if you really want to look at his plans look at his website. He does have specific ideas on many subjects. I don't expect either candidate to lay out their detailed ideas in soundbites of 90 seconds or less.
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I asked about specific question, Nash. I didn't hear an answer.
Old women need love too :D
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His tax policy will not affect most small busineses. I cant remember exact figure but if I do I'll post it.
[/B]
according to CNBC an independant think tank has the number effected at 400,000
Not the amount Bush claims, but still an AWFUL lot
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Also the same think tank has the number of lost jobs at 800,000 not the 1.5 million that kerry claims
They were doing a facts thing pointing out where each side had their numbers wrong.
Was actually pretty non partison imo
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Check this (http://www.reason.com/links/links100604.shtml) article out concerning the tax cuts, who got em and who they help.
Despite the spin, its not "just the wealthy" who got a break (albeit they do pay 67.7% of the tax burden)
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Originally posted by Steve
Don't get caught up in liberal speak. You can only give tax breaks to people who actually pay taxes.
How do you justtify tax breaks when at the same time the biggest threat today is a wmd being snuck into the US or a harbor by means of shipping. Shouldnt those measures be taken cared of already. I think the argument was that it would be too expensive and would hike the tax up yet Bush is giving a tax break to the wealthiest. I guess they all live in monoco or some other place. As Spock from star Trek would say, thats illogical.
And the drugs from canada and blocking group drug buys here in the US that would make them cheaper for srs. That is just illogical as well. Who pays, the people.
Ok Im off the pres debate, I think I've said enough.
:lol
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
And the drugs from canada...
I always thought we were more significant than Oregon.
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Everybody who works pays taxes, even people in the military pay taxes.
I was referring to income tax, which is the tax cut you mentioned. and no, not everyone who works pays income tax.
Nice fantasy though.
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Oregon isnt quite Canada but its north and rains alot so it just like Canada in may ways.
:D
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Yeah.... Plus - isn't their State animal the beaver?
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
And the drugs from canada and blocking group drug buys here in the US that would make them cheaper for srs. That is just illogical as well. Who pays, the people.
So your in favor of outsourcing to other countries?
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Thats not outsourceing thats just importing.
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And the difference is..?
When I buy a car from Germany, I outsource the labor required to build my car to Germany rather than Detroit.
Some German gets the job instead of a Michigander.
Importing = outsourcing labor
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So I have a question then. How many A-Q members have they arrested in Iraq. None? How many intelligence documents or information relating to A-Q have they found in Iraq that will help capture additional A-Q members. None?
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(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39929000/jpg/_39929270_zarqawi_ap203body.jpg)
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian with alleged close ties to al-Qaida and its figurehead, Osama bin Laden, has long been a prime suspect in the war on international terrorism.
Haven't got him yet, but he's there.
What's that got to do with outsourcing?
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Oops, ya got me!
Sleep time, gnite.
;)
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Bush overspends and cuts back on internal domestic issues and then gives a passive tax break to the wealthiest. How do you spend and give tax breaks, theres no logic to it. Is that suppose to have cured the ressession and create jobs. Look at the job figures, it hasnt.
I cant help but to notice these and other statements and claims such as Kerry is weak on defense. Factcheck.orq clearly shows his voting record and the years he voted against military spending post cold war. They even drew similar comparisons to Bush sr who cut military spending by 30% so is Bush sr weak on defense.
About the only fair and resonable news channel left is CNN.
The overspending was probably due to the military and intelligence services being downsized (Something Kerry repeatedly voted FOR) over the last 12 or so years A situation which helped get us into this 911 situation to begin with.
Note I did say 12 or so years so as to include Bush Sr who's downsizing policies I was also against and was the main reason I voted against him in his re election bid. We are paying dearly for that downsizing now.
I find it hard to imagine any president having done anything much differently.
Even Hillary (not exactly Bush's biggest fan) has said she would have done the same in Iraq had she the same info the Prez did. So Iraq is an issue more of rhetoric more then substance.
As for Tax cuts. EVERYONE got a tax cut.
I know I did and I'm FAR from being anywhere near that top percentage. I have no problem with the wealthiest getting more back after all they DID pay more in.
So it would only stand to reason that the ones that paid the most in would get the most back.
I call that being Fair.
The Job loss reported by Kerry is grossly inaccurate. According to an independent thinktank by CNBC (another one that doesn't exactly wave pompoms about Bush) The number is actually 800,000 and if you factor in the over 1 million jobs lost because of 911 and because of downsizing due to more people being replaced by automated machines that number is really more like 200,000 and that's being generous to the Kerry claim. and non of which Bush had any control over whatsoever.
Then again No other Prez had to deal with a recession (which he didn't create BTW) And then a 911 on top of it. So all in all it isn't the doom and gloom that the Kerry camp keeps trying to paint
All the major economists agree that in a time of recession you cut taxes and increase spending to help spur the economy.
Even the Democrats were on board with that. Where they differed was in how they were applied.
If you look back you will remember that at the time the Tax cuts were proposed the Democrats supported a tax cut. Just not the one Bush wanted
In the end Had a Democrat been there we would have ended up in the exact same place. we just would have gotten here by a different path under a different president
We still have the fastest growing economy in of any of the major industrialized nations and unemployment is about the same now as when Clinton was running for Re election and our GDP is the best its been in 20 years which aint to bad for this so called terrible economy. In alot of ways its actually better then during the Clinton years. Oh its not a runaway economy for sure. But its real based, on real value not the bubble full of illusionary wealth of the 90's (which Clinton wasn't responsible for)
When I look back at the 90s and that bubble full of illusions I'm far more comfortable with the way things are going today.
There are lots of things I dont like about Bush.
thre are also lots of things I dissagree with him on.
These just aint it
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
He voted to balance the budget in the early 90s. He voted to cancel production of B-2s. We have enough B-2s and more numbers are only needed for a full scale war against the soviet union. In limited campaigns of today, we have enough B-2s. Those are some examples.
He also voted to break the spending cap how many times?
im all for a balanced budget emmendment.
was one of the few things I supported about Clinton.
But how can you keep a budget balanced if your going to keep breaking spending caps?
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Originally posted by rpm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3908753.stm
Interesting and perhaps wrong but nothing I would call earthshattering
"Halliburton came under fire earlier this month for the Iran deals, with critics charging that they abused the spirit - if not the letter - of sanctions banning US firms from working in Iran. "
and little more then a single flea on a Saint Bernard when compaired to France, Germany, Russia, China's dealings with Iraq
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Everybody who works pays taxes, even people in the military pay taxes.
No thats not true.
I dont remeber the exact number but there is a threshold that if you make below a certain amount you dont have to pay income taxes
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Originally posted by rpm
I think it was a close debate and these numbers are very early. Give it a day or 2 and we will see if either gained any ground. The guys screaming "Landslide Bush" either didn't watch the debate or didn't pay attention. There was no clear win by either candidate tonight.
Agreed Saw on I think it was CNN last night where they mentione a report that claims the Democrates were encouraging their people to take part in these polls.
Assuming its true and it is only an assumtion
those results are not at all surprising
Particularly when you factor in its a fridaynight and a large portion of the population were probably out enjoying themselves and probably not even watching the debate
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
Dont mean to be bashing on Bush so much. I just got back from starbucks.
:D
dont blame ya for being in a bad mood.
Paying too much money for mediocre coffee would piss me off too.
Only made that mistake once. but it was the only joint open
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Originally posted by rpm
Tweety, if you really want to look at his plans look at his website. He does have specific ideas on many subjects. I don't expect either candidate to lay out their detailed ideas in soundbites of 90 seconds or less.
LOL and if you look, Kerrys plan.. More of the same only faster.
ooookkkkk
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
And the drugs from canada
:lol
Now here is a subject I am on board with Kerry on.
But thats not nearly enough to be an issue for me
Now
If he just showed some balls and took a stand on the patriot act. For which I am against in its present form
then he would have alot more sway with me
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Kerry - I Salute our men in uniform.
I have a better plan. And it all starts with my new hat
(http://www.stuckongop.com/images/Kerry/17.jpg)
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coffee
I justify the tax cut as without them we would be in a depression today. and everyone got a tax cut who actually pays taxes, even those who pay into the system only to get it back in april when the rest of us pay out more .. anything else stated is hot-air, class envy gasbag liberal spew "hate the rich guy cause he has more than you"
so any of you voting for skerry want:
1. higher taxes
2. MORE troops in Iraq (where is he going to get them from)
3. UN approval before doing anything outside US in war on terror
4. Trial lawyers pushing up malpractice insurance forcing more docs out
5. 4 years of skerry sticking his finger into the air to feel the political wind/check the polls before making a decision on anything
what you'd get is 4 years of a weaker America, I think that is what many want both here and abroad
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Didn't the Germans and French say they would not approve use of force under any circumstances?
So when Kerry says that he would've gotten them onboard he's indicating that he thinks the French and German were lying.
That's nice, insult their integrity, that will persuade them.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
No thats not true.
I dont remeber the exact number but there is a threshold that if you make below a certain amount you dont have to pay income taxes
While many in the military, especially the lower ranks, likely get a refund of their income tax equal to what they paid in throughout the year, they don't get any of their social security payments or medicare tax refunded.
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Originally posted by AKIron
While many in the military, especially the lower ranks, likely get a refund of their income tax equal to what they paid in throughout the year, they don't get any of their social security payments or medicare tax refunded.
Why would they? Won't they be using it later?
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Just trying to clarify. As to whether they will ever get a chance to "use" that social security money, it remains to be seen. Much of it is being siphoned off to pay for things the fund was never intended for when it was created.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Just trying to clarify. As to whether they will ever get a chance to "use" that social security money, it remains to be seen. Much of it is being siphoned off to pay for things the fund was never intended for when it was created.
That's the case with everyone, though. It's not armed forces specific.
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I heard the actor ron silverman make a poinit last night I hadnt thought of.
Gulf War I passed Kerrys "global test" yet he voted against it. Never thought of that.
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I want Bush to win but never thought he was a great speaker. Still don't
This was a heated debate and to me... kerrie needed to show that he was not a tax and spend liberal with a know it all attitude and a $1,000 hircut.
kerrie promised all the little people everyuthing under the sun.. he promised that our health care would go down because the government would take "the worst cases" and payu for their care with our tax money. He tells us that 30 billion for homeland security is a drop in the bucket and that we need to spend more. He tells us that the war will be won (I have a plan) by speeding up the training and sending more troops with more equipment (spend way more money on it)
he tells us he will not raise taxes a cent on the little people who make less than 200k... he will save say 600 billion by "rolling back" the tax level on these people to the highest levels in history... even these "savings" will be tainted by the fact that about a half a million people that will be afected are small bussiness men. maybe another millon or so businesses that are not considered particularly small but produce jobs and revenue will also be affected.
Klinton rolled back the deficet by gutting the military... kerrie can't do that. He has to punish growtth to gain revenue.
in short...kerries "plan" for fixing every single thing that he thinks Bush is doing wrong is to..... increase the spending.
We are talking trillions of dollars here and he has no way whatsoever of paying for any of it.
All the republicans have to do is show that kerrie voted to spend money on social programs and against intelleigence and the military and that he consistently voted for higher taxes for 20 years.
The ultimate flip flop was him looking the camera "in the eye" and stating that even though he consistently voted for every tax increase put before him for 20 years.... he wasn't gonna raise our taxes.
lazs
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the tax cut ended the Klinton recession in the shortest time on record and... it was also the shallowest.
kerrie cliams he will increase the tax cut to the little people more than doubling it in the case of people with children and even single youth wanting to go to college.
kerrie put gulf war one up to the global test and it passed... he thenm voted against it anyway.... if he had his way we would have went against world opinion.
Bush scored big onj the "not giving enough of an effort in Iraq" question when he said that he sat all the generals down and askled em what they needed to win and did they have a plane and enoutgh of everything.... they said "yes sir".
Bush scored huge by simply saying "look at kerries voting record".
Now kerrie expects us to believe that everything he has done for 20 years is not in play and that he will act 180 degrees differently than he has up to this point in time?
I don't think he is making that point... he is making the right promises (we are all gonna get a lot of free stuff and it won't cost us a dime) but I don't think he convinced anyone last night.
The comercials are what people will see... they will point to kerries record as oppossed to what he is now saying. A liberal with a capital L , with his record.... it puts him at a huge disadvantage in the 30 sec commercial soundbite...
Imagine him asking for a global test and then a cut away to him voting against the world in gulf war one for instance... imagine him looking into the camera and claiming to not raise taxes and then a cut to his voting record... devestating..
maybe kerrie did have some sort of epithany in the last couple of months and is now a moderate but... ya gotta admit... it looks like flip flopping pandering more than a genuine change of basic political views.
lazs