Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Guppy35 on October 10, 2004, 02:24:29 AM
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Thought you might enjoy this thread from the Flypast forum about the flight of a newly restored '109G4' in Germany this week.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33002
Dan/Slack
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Nice pictures, thanks for posting.
(http://www.me109.info/ff/Dsc_4825-m.jpg)
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WONDERFUL!!!!!!
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Nice! Thanks Guppy.
Crumpp
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(http://www.me109.info/ff/Dsc_4861-m.jpg)
(http://www.me109.info/ff/Dsc_4873-m.jpg)
The most beautiful airplane ever! :)
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Quit flying it for crist sake you break it.
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Quit flying it? They only flew it for a day. And to think soon they will be producing them again. WOOT!
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no swastika on tail!
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I have yet to see a real lufftwaffe aircraft in real life let alone a 109 or fw190. I once saw a 1/4 scale replica 190 at an airshow but thats not the same thing.
:D
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am i seeing the so-called "combat flaps"?:eek:
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Originally posted by 1K3
am i seeing the so-called "combat flaps"?:eek:
See here: (http://www.jagdgeschwader4.de/Flugzeuge/Me109/Fotos-G4/Bilder/Open-die-Herren-4.jpg)
On the trailing edge of the right wing, from left to right: radiator flaps, landing flaps, aileron.
Normally the radiator flaps are set to adjust automatically, depending on the engine temperature. The pilot could also override the automatic radiator and set the position of the radiator flaps manually.
The landing flaps are adjusted manually. The pilot turns a wheel beside the seat to operate them. There are no specific steps in the flaps, the pilot can lower them as little or as much as he/she likes. As the landing flaps are lowered, the radiator flaps are lowered as well.
So basically, the 109 has "combat flaps". The pilot could apply just a bit of flaps to help in turning, if needed.
Camo
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Quit flying it? They only flew it for a day. And to think soon they will be producing them again. WOOT!
!?
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You're probably seeing the radiator flaps.
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Originally posted by Octavius
!?
I heard that Flugwerks, the company that rebilt this plane and builds the new production Fw190A8s iis going to start making new buil Bf109Gs.. :)
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Camo got any data on what speeds they were able to deploy flaps at any amount of degree and at any given speed? Combat flaps for one plane doesn't necessarily mean they can be deployed at the same speeds and have the same amount of affect as the other bird.
Just because you have a variable up/down flap option doesn't mean they can deploy the same or deploy at higher speeds.
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Bah! The -G??? They should work on the -E!!!!!!
Dude, if I had enough money I'd buy a 109E. Seriously.
I hear Bill Gates (or somebody at Microsoft) is paying to restore a DB engine for his 109, and may someday be flying it.
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Just because you have a variable up/down flap option doesn't mean they can deploy the same or deploy at higher speeds.
I would stake the Bf-109's mechanical flap deployment system is just as powerful as any hydraulic, pneumatic, or electrical flap system used in WWII. More than enough to deploy the flaps at any speed the plane flew.
Ever do any mountain climbing? Ever make a mechanical advantage? Same principal as gearing. With a couple of snaplinks and some knots, one man can lift thousands of pounds, literally. All by himself.
Crumpp
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Just becuase it has mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic or electrical flaps doesn't mean they can deploy at any speed. You have to look at what pressures are being placed on the surface and what the surface is made out of. You deploy them at to fast of a speed and your going to disenegrate the surface.
Even in todays day and age modern fighters surfaces will rip apart if deployed at to fast of a speed. Just as an example the F-15s flaps are a 2 way deployment, up or down. They also have a safety system built in to keep from destroying the flap surface and/or the hydrualic actuators that deploy them. They will not deploy over 230kts and if left in the down position while going through that speed the will automatically retract. This is due to a flap airspeed monitoring switch. When it senses speeds above 230kts it automatically unlocks the control valve in the actuator. The fluids then bypass so that air pressure will force the flaps to the up position.
Simply saying the 109 should be able to deploy flaps at any speed is ridiculous. Just because it has manual gearing doesn't mean it can deploy at any speed.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
Just becuase it has mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic or electrical flaps doesn't mean they can deploy at any speed. You have to look at what pressures are being placed on the surface and what the surface is made out of. You deploy them at to fast of a speed and your going to disenegrate the surface.
Even in todays day and age modern fighters surfaces will rip apart if deployed at to fast of a speed. Just as an example the F-15s flaps are a 2 way deployment, up or down. They also have a safety system built in to keep from destroying the flap surface and/or the hydrualic actuators that deploy them. They will not deploy over 230kts and if left in the down position while going through that speed the will automatically retract. This is due to a flap airspeed monitoring switch. When it senses speeds above 230kts it automatically unlocks the control valve in the actuator. The fluids then bypass so that air pressure will force the flaps to the up position.
Simply saying the 109 should be able to deploy flaps at any speed is ridiculous. Just because it has manual gearing doesn't mean it can deploy at any speed.
I have read no instances of 109s compressing in a dive. The 109s whole horizontal stab could be adjusted, this was the elevator trim thus allowing you considerably more than the 40-50lbs of pressure to be applied to the elevators. The 109 had wonderful down elevator force which is totally lacking in AH. There is no reasonable explaination for HTCs erroneous modelling of all LW aircraft in this game. There is no such thing as flaps auto retracting in any WWII aircraft. You can deploy landing gear BEFORE deploying flaps on a 109.
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I have read no instances of 109s compressing in a dive.
109's did not compress. They did experience high stick forces and stability problems in a high speed dive. The vertical stabilizer was extended to 110 cm and that eliminated the stability issue. This why you see the "tall tails" on the Bf-109G6 and later varients.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/503_1097463114_testdive_vs_divelimits.jpg)
Simply saying the 109 should be able to deploy flaps at any speed is ridiculous. Just because it has manual gearing doesn't mean it can deploy at any speed.
Yes it is ridiculus.
However this is what I wrote.
I would stake the Bf-109's mechanical flap deployment system is just as powerful as any hydraulic, pneumatic, or electrical flap system used in WWII.
And is a very true statement. You focused on the last sentence and took it out of context as a stand alone concept.
Let me clarify it for you. The 109's flaps could deploy at any speeds any other fighter in WWII could deploy flaps. There use as combat flaps is well documented and did improve the turn of the 109.
Crumpp
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Originally posted by Krusty
Bah! The -G??? They should work on the -E!!!!!!
Dude, if I had enough money I'd buy a 109E. Seriously.
I hear Bill Gates (or somebody at Microsoft) is paying to restore a DB engine for his 109, and may someday be flying it.
Krusty, there is a flying Emil in Canada. There are at least two or three that are being restored to flight and they just pulled one almost completly intact from a Russian lake recently. One, a B of B vet was found intact in India where it had been since sent there after the war to a tech school. It's now in England for restoration to flight as well
There will probably be more E's flying then anything else in the near future
Paul Allen of Microsoft fame has built an incredible collection of WW2 aircraft including a Spit V, 190A5, P51, B17E etc. I don't think he has a 109 yet, but no doubt he will. His restoration team's work is incredible. See the latest Air & Space magazine for details
Link to Ed Russel's 109E in Canada
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=36327&stc=1
DanSlack
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Really GH...ok fly that sucker!
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Guppy: Thanks for the heads-up!! Last I heard the only ones flying were the horribly butt-ugly (or should I say nose-ugly?) Spanish post-war variants, as seen in many movies.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Bah! The -G??? They should work on the -E!!!!!!
Dude, if I had enough money I'd buy a 109E. Seriously.
I hear Bill Gates (or somebody at Microsoft) is paying to restore a DB engine for his 109, and may someday be flying it.
Why do you want a 109E? Its the ugliest POS 109 ever.
Bf109 F G and K are the real 109s.. :p
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I'm with Krusty as an Emil fan. Something about them, in particular the E-7 looks right to me
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1097475229_109e7jg54redone.jpg)
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:eek: WoW!! :eek:
Simply beautiful :D
Although yesterday we had a 51D fly over. And I tell ya, there isnt ANYTHING in the world that sounds like a 51 :D :aok I could hear one and not even have to look up to tell ya what it was...
w00t!!! I say, w00t!!
Thanks for the links :aok
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You 109E people are sick... :(
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You 109E people are sick... :(
Well I coulda told ya that...... :)
Dan/Slack
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Does it have DB powerplant or is it still using the Merlin strapon?
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From the forum thread mentioned in the first post:
The plane use an original DB 605 A that was restorated from up to 20 diffrent DB 605 engines.
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Originally posted by Furball
no swastika on tail!
Because Swastikas and other Nazi symbols are ILLEGAL in present day Germany. Very sensitive issue (understandably).
That having said, this is one of the most beautiful planes I have ever seen, and considering I live 20 miles from the German border and considering the big big zoom on my Nikon D70 it's a bloody shame that I wasn't there.
Tonight I'm gonna fly a 109 for the heck of it...
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That seriously kicks ass. What a looker! I love that last "tower buzz" pic especially.
So are these replicas completely identical to the original design? If so...it'd be pretty useful for our FMs. :D
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Oh, but the 109F looks the best ;)
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IMO Bf109G2 is the most elegant and prettiest looking Bf109. The G6 is the best looking, though. :)
Really I think the heavier canopy and windsreen of the Bf109G2 tie the plane together more and make it look more solid than the thin frames and lower front windows of Bf109F.. And the G2 still has retractible tailwheel and no bumps - so its very clean and mean.
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Im going to grow up a rich aeronautical engineer and am going to by a 109. Jesus that thing is beutiful. I also am going to by a p-40 and a b-25
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It's very inspiring to see an airworthy 109, as they are so rare.
IMO the late Gustavs or Kurfursts with the smooth but bulging cowls, look best. The bulges give the plane some attitude. The plain-line early 109s aren't mean enough!
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fantastic, and it has a DB engine... I really do not like the spanish merlin 109s, they look goofy...
Very pretty plane.
Hopefully it flies longer then black 6.
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Hey guys, if you look further down in the thread there are also a few video clips posted. Awesome sound of that DB in the flyby!
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that "new" german tail insignia is SICK....
hey lets forget history... if we do, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...
shreck Bush is Hitler,
Schroeder is Hitler....
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banning the swastika is like banning red coats in england in case we go steal 1/3 of the world again.
"AAAAAAHHHH A RED COAT!!! MUST............ INVADE ....................... EVERYONE!!"
just pathetic.
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Hopefully it flies longer then black 6.
im quite glad it isnt flying.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Bah! The -G??? They should work on the -E!!!!!!
Dude, if I had enough money I'd buy a 109E. Seriously.
I hear Bill Gates (or somebody at Microsoft) is paying to restore a DB engine for his 109, and may someday be flying it.
I believe there is a flying 109E4/7 in California :aok
Bazi
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With the excellent markings available for a G4, they had to paint it like that?? tsk, tsk :rolleyes:
Bazi
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Originally posted by Wurger
I believe there is a flying 109E4/7 in California :aok
Bazi
The flying E model is with Ed Russell in Canada now along with his Spit IX and Hurricane.
Dan/Slack
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Personally I think all rebuildt/restored ww2 planes that are rare should be placed in museums, and they could build replicas to fly. Reasonably priced and "mass produced" ww2 replicas would prolly be fairly popular too.
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Unfortunately 'reasonably priced' aircraft are still too fuggin expensive for me to consider.
Well, there's always the lottery :D
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Personally I think all rebuildt/restored ww2 planes that are rare should be placed in museums, and they could build replicas to fly. Reasonably priced and "mass produced" ww2 replicas would prolly be fairly popular too.
Not too educated in the realm of reproducing aircraft are you...
tell ya what, look into becoming a FAA/PMA apprived parts manufacturer someday... you might just realise why only the ultra-rich still build a/c.
Ohh, and as far as the flying history we see nowadays... if we left it up to the putrid national museums to restore and fly them, we'd be looking at cobbled pieces of poop flyign around. Be thankful their are those that have the funds and drive to see these magnificent aircraft take to the air once again....
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Not too educated in the realm of reproducing aircraft are you...
tell ya what, look into becoming a FAA/PMA apprived parts manufacturer someday... you might just realise why only the ultra-rich still build a/c.
Ohh, and as far as the flying history we see nowadays... if we left it up to the putrid national museums to restore and fly them, we'd be looking at cobbled pieces of poop flyign around. Be thankful their are those that have the funds and drive to see these magnificent aircraft take to the air once again....
thx a bunch for educating me bodhi but id rather know that these birds are safe for my grandkids and beyond to see and learn from than beeing crashed by some rich moron just cause he could.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
tell ya what, look into becoming a FAA/PMA apprived parts manufacturer someday... you might just realise why only the ultra-rich still build a/c.
Well ... there are a lot of non-ultra-rich that build airplanes. Like this one:
(http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/beachbum.jpg)
You can build a plane and have it flyable for about the same price as a new car. Lots of people build planes these days.
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Same price?
Maybe in parts, but in building time??? I doubt it...
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Valid point Grunherz if "time is money", but for most of those building them its half the fun.... like people building models.
In one way you could actually say that these people get twice the fun for the same £
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Same price?
Maybe in parts, but in building time??? I doubt it...
You're building it on your own time, not buying a complete aircraft. You can get that Europa I posted above for about 25,000 pounds complete with engine and instruments. If you work 8 hours a day on it you can have it finished in about two months (if you know what you're doing).
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BUILDING?
Look at this kit then....hehe:
http://www.supermarineaircraft.com
Is there a 109 Kit anywhere?
Very interested if there is one :)
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Not yet, but the Flugwerk Fw190A-8's are sold as kit planes.
... Of course they are for the super-rich with that huge engine and all. You'd have to be rich to afford the fuel consuption alone.